sherlockpotter

Hal, I’m sure there will be 15 books published in the next 10 years about Poe and Keri Russell having a fling while running spice. The EU never disappoints 😉

I’m thinking something like this:

ZORII: Babu? Babu only works with the crew. That’s not you anymore.

REY: What crew?

ZORII: Oh, funny he never mentioned it. Your friend’s old job was running spice, “until we learned he was a spy for” (The Resistance) [pulled from a few lines down]

FINN: You were a spice runner?

POE: You were a stormtrooper?

REY: Were you a spice runner?

POE: Were you a scavenger? We could do this all night.

ZORII: You don’t have all night. You know, I’m still digging out of the hole you put me in when you left to join the Resistance. You. You’re the one they’re looking for. Bounty for her just might cover us.

(We can play around with it, Jar Jar; but I’m not sure how well it will fit if he was just playing a part. And personally, I think this particular banter feels a little awkward anyway. Unlike the rest of the script, which sounds like it was written by Aaron Sorkin.)

For Poe, the Spice Runnin’ Boy, could we maybe pull some Keri Russell dialogue from The Americans? Something like “He was a spy,” or “He was a double agent”? Then we could just add some audio filters to give it that helmet quality.

If we just had that little piece, I think it would be pretty easy to cut around the rest of the dialogue and make it fit. I’m definitely willing to try if someone can help me track down those lines!

DominicCobb said:

Alright, I watched the scene again. It goes

• Shot from the side of the puppet show (this will need VFX too)
• Wide shot of kids laughing (they could be laughing at anything at this point, could just be the narrator’s description)
• Shot of the puppet stage (we slot in whatever VFX we come up with)
• Close up of kid laughing (could very easily just cut this out)
• Wide shot of kids looking in wonder
• Rey watching (maybe slot in some cheers here)

So, looking at it, if you cut the close up of the kid laughing, you really don’t need to do anything crazy here. My final suggestion would be you see the walker on one side, and then Luke pops into frame on the other side. Alien says “Skywalker,” or like “Mastah Jedai Skywalker” some shit like that. Nothing too over the top, gets the point across quickly and efficiently.

To make it easier on our VFX gods, I don’t think we even need the side shot. Maybe something like:

• Rey looks over
• Wide shot of the front of the stage
• Close up of the stage (using the same angle, so only one VFX is needed)
• Kids laughing
• (Maybe, if we want it to breathe more, an extra, closer-up shot of Puppet Luke blowing a raspberry, or waving his lightsaber in the air while making trumpet noises. Doo dodo DOOO!)
• Back to the search
• Jar Jar pointed out that the next scene is actually the “What’s your family’s name, you dumb, orphan bitch??” scene. Apologies for my oversight, I thought it came in sooner. That’ll actually flow really well!

Depending on how exactly the whole festival sequence is cut together, maybe Rey could even be looking around aimlessly, then she hears “Dooba jabba Skywalker!” Or whatever, and that’s what causes her to look over at the puppet show?

And then it could be something like Luke hopping up and down around the walker, saying “Ha ha!” And the kiddies laugh at that.

Edit: Muffy, your gif is hilarious!

RogueLeader said:

Might be too much work, but since Zorri wears a mask the whole time, we could redub her to fit whatever new narrative we wanted. For example, we could have her say Poe was just working as a spice runner undercover for the Republic, which is why Zorri is so pissed off at Poe (and would help alleviate some of the stereotype issues of making the Latino character a former drug runner.)

When Poe asks how long Kijimi has been like this, she could say not long after Crait or Skywalker. And when Poe starts getting down in the dumps about people losing hope, Zorri could tell him that these people have actually regained hope and are resisting.

And I don’t think the mask has to be perfect MR. Once we have puppets there, it’ll probably distract from any imperfections. Plus, it’s such a short shot anyway.

A couple of thoughts on everything. RogueLeader, that’s a fantastic idea of Poe working undercover for the Resistance - especially since the Spice Runner thing was a retcon anyway. It was previously established that Poe was born to members of the Rebel Alliance, and grew up in that environment. Wookieepedia has two sentences about him being a spice runner; and one of those is just “He eventually stopped running spice.”

Rogue’s line switcheroo would help to put Poe’s backstory back in order.

If we wanted to build up the “Rebellion on Kijimi” angle, that could be accomplished with a few crowd-supplied ADR lines (like was done with “For Skywalker!”) such as “Take them down!” “For the Resistance!” “Down with the First Order!” Etc.

Also, for everyone saying, “We only have one second to shoot the puppet show,” I don’t think that’s true at all. Obviously, we’ll all be hugely grateful for whatever puppet segments can be created - and I’m not saying we have to add anything super long or complex - but imagine: We have our quick, one-second establishing shot of the puppet show. Then we can cut to a close up of just the puppet stage (using MR’s fantastic clean-plate backdrop (Seriously man, great job!). You don’t need to see the audience in the same shot anymore. Loop some sound effects underneath of the crowd, and it should all feel pretty seamless, I think.

This is a fantastic idea everyone! Plus, it hearkens back to the kids on Canto Bight from the last film, and any additional connective tissue this film can have to the others before it is golden.

I agree with Brewzter, it should be some cartoonishly epic display of Luke’s powers. I would avoid having Luke fall over - it’s ultimately supposed to be an inspirational story, after all.

Movies Remastered said:

sherlockpotter said:

In my mind, Han showing up is simply the visual representation of Ben’s inner monologue - he’s not actually there. The scene is just for the purpose of filming something visually. “Leia channeling the Force into a medal that Han wore for 45 seconds one time 30 years ago, in order to project a conscious, sentient image of her dead husband to their son, who is halfway across the galaxy, several hours after her own death (because Finn and Poe have managed to fix the busted, crashed Falcon, leave Endor, and get all the way back to the Resistance before we see Kylo again)”…yeah, I don’t buy it.

If you wanted a visual metaphor for Han, why not use the dice? You know, the dice that were used throughout the previous movie to represent Han?

Did you see my video explaining this exact situation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueu_fV8lbac

You’re completely on my wavelength

YES! Oh man, the dice work so well there. It’s not even implausible with the fake ones disappearing on Crait. After the First Order captured the Falcon (the last place we saw the real dice), wouldn’t Ben have taken them from the ship?

I’m not quite as sold about some of the voice over - Leia talking to Rey as her son is dying feels a bit off to me, and Han’s dialogue about “what [Rey] stood for” doesn’t quite seem to work in this context; but I do like the idea of Ben having some sort of internal monologue before reviving Rey - perhaps “memory” clips, rather than “Force Ghost conversations”? (Han wasn’t really that in tune with the Force anyway.)

Hal 9000 said:

sherlockpotter said:

Maybe my monitor just isn’t very good, but I don’t see any color banding in the most recent screenshots. Is that not the case?

Well, it looks okay but it seems like compressing it introduces the banding. Maybe tonight I’ll try exporting it exactly as I will for a final product and see how it looks.

I’ll try to output the LUT itself for you, to avoid any compression artifacts. I was just hoping to get a few more opinions on with beaming/without beaming before I do.

Maybe my monitor just isn’t very good, but I don’t see any color banding in the most recent screenshots. Is that not the case?

(You and me, Dom. You and me. I appreciate the support! lol)

In my mind, Han showing up is simply the visual representation of Ben’s inner monologue - he’s not actually there. The scene is just for the purpose of filming something visually. “Leia channeling the Force into a medal that Han wore for 45 seconds one time 30 years ago, in order to project a conscious, sentient image of her dead husband to their son, who is halfway across the galaxy, several hours after her own death (because Finn and Poe have managed to fix the busted, crashed Falcon, leave Endor, and get all the way back to the Resistance before we see Kylo again)”…yeah, I don’t buy it.

If you wanted a visual metaphor for Han, why not use the dice? You know, the dice that were used throughout the previous movie to represent Han?

NeverarGreat said:

Hal 9000 said:

Here’s what I’m leaning toward as far as placement: https://vimeo.com/515582857

It works fairly well.

That said, it would work far better if someone were to paint out the medal altogether. I don’t get the connection between the medal and Ben at all, other than it’s just Leia reminiscing about her past. But even then I feel like it cheapens the moment since it would then feel like she’s not focused solely on Ben.

It’s just weird.

The medal insert shot isn’t in the theatrical version at all. Leia’s just magically holding it when she loses the will to live. Off screen, Maz pries it from Leia’s not-yet-cold fingers before rigor mortis sets in, and then she gives it to Chewie at the end of the movie, like, “Hey, Sexy. I know you’ve been moping for the past 30 years about not getting a medal. You can have this one - it’s only slightly used.”

If it were up to me, I’d cut it from the film entirely - from Leia and Chewie both - as the pandering fan service that it is; but as long as the general consensus is that Chewie should get the damn thing, I agree with Hal that it makes sense to set it up ahead of time.

God, this movie sucks.

Movies Remastered said:

Yeah, I did think of how it would explain the logic but I feel it’ll be a subtle introduction to Ben’s healing powers, and the scene to come. Kylo had no reason to fix Vaders helmet because it was a reminder of his battle and cremation.

I’m going with “ultimate power” red lightning following the line “look what you have made…” Palpatine never had the ability to use red lightning before but now he’s drawn power from the dyad it’s made him even more powerful. I also feel we need to give Palpatine something different, something that takes 2 sabers, 4 force ghosts and Rey to defeat. We’ve already seen Palpatine beaten with the powers he possessed in ESB for I feel these changes gives everything more gravitas.

Good point about the lightning - I’m definitely interested to see how it looks! Plus, red = Sith in Star Wars, so red lightning has to be Super-Duper Sith-y, right?

I’m still not quite convinced about the crystal though. Force Healing was explicitly described as “Giving your life force to someone else,” so if Ben uses it to fix the crystal, that implies that the crystals themselves are alive. (Maybe that’s in Legends, but it was never implied in the main films.) And why wouldn’t Rey - Force Healer extraordinaire - just fix the crystal then? I just feel like it will open up more questions than answers, and it won’t lead as effectively to the sabers shorting out after the fight (assuming that effect is still on the list as well).

skenera said:

sherlockpotter said:

Hal, are you using the V4 edit? V4 (I think) removes the color banding, as well as adds film grain, and probably is the closest match in terms of color and brightness to the rest of the scene.

Also, maybe I’m going slightly crazy from having obsessed over the coloring of that scene, but it looks like your test clip there doesn’t include the color re-grade present in Ascendant V1? My V4 edit was designed to match the Ascendant tone. Does that have to be changed?

That said, I think the flow works very well!

V4 clip: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DzaKiOT4X4DKFrPOTqiZpysUfoUDTsT7/view?usp=sharing

And some screenshots for comparison.

V3: https://i.imgur.com/4xIMw0w.png
V4: https://i.imgur.com/DynQOUH.png

It’s subtle, but you can tell the light is fake, you should blur it or use a different shape to make the falloff softer.

Those ridges were a deliberate effect that I wanted, to try and make it look like a directional beam of light, rather than just an ambient light mask. But if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.

I’ll leave it up to you guys: Do you prefer it with the “beam” effect, or more flat?

Beam: https://i.imgur.com/DynQOUH.png
Flat: https://i.imgur.com/TC2woJB.png

Movies Remastered said:

I’m currently working on a bunch of scenes with other editors so the crackling saber effect has taken a back seat. I’m am working on a few faulty Saber effects to include during the battle and in my version Ben fixes the crystal after it’s teleported. I’m happy to experiment with other ideas too.

One thing I have noticed (perfectionist) is that the new particle layer takes away the crackling effect in the training scene so I wanna get that sharp before moving on.

Palpatines red lightning scenes are looking epic, btw.

Hmm, there’s also the in-universe logic to consider. Why would teleporting the lightsaber suddenly repair the crystal? Other items, like Vader’s helmet, weren’t fixed when they were teleported.

As for the red lightning, I’m torn on this one. I have no doubt that it looks amazing; and one of the things I love about Leia’s purple lightsaber is that it helps to break up the visual monotony of Exegol’s cyan color palette. But Palps has always had bluish lightning, even back to ROTJ. Maybe it helps to distinguish this one as a new body? What do other people think?

This isn’t really related to anything, but in Rey’s confrontation with Palpatine, I like the idea of cutting out Rey telling Palps “My parents were strong…” If her parents are still the deadbeats from TLJ, then Palpy’s line about “Weak…like your parents,” actually hits really hard; because we know that her parents were weak. Rey silently staring at Palpatine in response, without being about to refute his point, actually creates a gigantic character beat for her - has she moved past her idolization of her parents? Will Palpy’s taunt actually affect her? Will she succumb to the same failings as they did?

I created a (very rough) mock up that incorporated that idea, and I was honestly shocked at how much gravitas the taunt now had - gravitas that was completely absent from the theatrical version of the film.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E-g834NDnJeoItEVfSyjDvvw9INy4SmY/view?usp=sharing

Hello, all. I’m not sure what the state is of the Rey Nobody story line, but Neerb had a really great idea over on the Ascendant thread that I wanted to make sure people saw:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/the-rise-of-skywalker-ascendant-released/id/71835/page/358#1411678

Basically, the crux of the matter is that Palpatine never tells Kylo to “Kill the girl.” Instead, Palatine just says “You will do as I ask,” Kylo lowers his saber, and Palpy smiles evilly at the camera before it cuts to the next scene. Palpy’s plans then becomes a mystery for the audience to unravel as the film progresses. We get little clues throughout (as Neerb explains above), and we’re led to assume that Palps wanted Rey dead; but then it’s revealed at the climax that he always wanted Rey to come to him, alive.

After that, other things that would have to be cut include (off the top of my head):

• Palpatine being “Every voice [Kylo] has ever heard inside [his] head.” Snoke wanted Rey dead, Palpatine wanted Rey alive, so they can’t be working together, let alone the same person.
• Ochi killing Rey’s parents. They were deadbeats, they wouldn’t be trying to protect her.
• Kylo’s dialogue to Rey in the hangar. My thought is to trim the scene down, and as he’s approaching her, say, “I know what I have to do, but I don’t know if I have the strength to do it.” According to Neerb’s setup, we’d assume that he doesn’t want to kill the person he once wanted as his friend; in hindsight, we realize that he was conflicted about delivering her to Palpatine. The line works both ways.
• Palpy’s dialogue at the end (obviously). “Empress Palpatine…” shut up, Grandpa, you’re drunk.

Hal, are you using the V4 edit? V4 (I think) removes the color banding, as well as adds film grain, and probably is the closest match in terms of color and brightness to the rest of the scene.

Also, maybe I’m going slightly crazy from having obsessed over the coloring of that scene, but it looks like your test clip there doesn’t include the color re-grade present in Ascendant V1? My V4 edit was designed to match the Ascendant tone. Does that have to be changed?

That said, I think the flow works very well!

V4 clip: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DzaKiOT4X4DKFrPOTqiZpysUfoUDTsT7/view?usp=sharing

And some screenshots for comparison.

V3: https://i.imgur.com/4xIMw0w.png
V4: https://i.imgur.com/DynQOUH.png

I like the idea of Leia saying something more significant to him. In response to him saying “You can’t go back to her now. Like I can’t,” could she maybe say “Come home” or “Come back.” She has some lines in TFA to Han that might work as a base - “Bring him home,” “I want him back.”

And it might flow a little better with a bit of a pause there. Maybe she could say the second part as she’s lying down?

Also, was the plan for the end of this fight, with the crackly saber, still to have Rey’s short out right before Kylo prepares his final swing? Because that’s going to look awesome if so, and it’ll explain why she doesn’t raise the saber to block again.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

I guess I’m still confused about Palpy flip-flopping between wanting Rey as a child, giving up trying to find her, deciding to kill her, and then going back to finding Rey after Ben turns.

Note: Edited this comment to reflect what I believe Hal is going for.
Palpatine’s plan in the edit we’re creating:

1. Palpatine sends Ochi to track down and kill Rey because he “saw what [she] would become” (a powerful Jedi), but her parents won’t reveal her location. Ochi kills them as he feels they no longer serve any purpose.
2. Palpatine puts all of his effort into corrupting Ben Solo for an essence transfer.
3. Palpatine wants Snoke to have Kylo kill Rey because he is using only Kylo. Kylo resists.
4. He had already put a ton of effort into corrupting Kylo, so yet again he tells him on Exegol to kill Rey. This is the task which will prove whether or not he is a worthy vessel.
5. Kylo realigns himself with the light, and Palpatine senses it. His new goal is to corrupt Rey and essence transfer into her.
6. She refuses. Then he discovers he can drain their dyad to restore his full strength.

It’s really complicated, but at least it (mostly) makes sense.

Alright, if it can work out that way, then great! It definitely sounds better than the original plan. Thanks for going through it for me!

It wouldn’t be the first time a character has been reduced to window dressing. (See: 95% of the Jedi Order until The Clone Wars, or Boba Fett in ROTJ) But fair points nonetheless. I guess I’m still confused about Palpy flip-flopping between wanting Rey as a child, giving up trying to find her, deciding to kill her, and then going back to finding Rey after Ben turns.

I’m sure it will make more sense when I see the final V2, at any rate. I’m still in the Rey Nobody camp anyway, so I’m sure that’s affecting my interpretation of the plot.

And Jar Jar, I like your edit, I think it flows well!

jarbear said:

Tobar said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I guess you could make the argument for Rey not showing up. Luke kinda messed up by convincing her to leave Ahch-To, come to think of it. Ben likely would have realized Rey wasn’t on Exegol, and the two of them would have just chilled elsewhere while the Resistance launched an attack on Exegol.

Fairly certain that Finn, Poe, and co. would have gotten rid of all the Star Destroyers in that battle. Their actions never relied on the Palpatine interactions, did they?

Oh boy, I’m never going to be able to forget this plot hole now.

There would never have been a battle since Rey is the one that showed them how to reach Exegol.

That would have left the Final Order fleet free reign to fully deploy and spread out across the galaxy destroying countless worlds and then holding a proverbial blaster to the head of the galaxy.

True, but in some ways that wasn’t needed since D0 was from Exegol and could in theory direct them. Not saying one way or the other, but in some ways, the plotting of the course seems a bit unnecessary where you see Rey making tight maneuvers plotting the course but we see some HUGE ships appearing later with Lando … heck, even the Star Destroyers would need to get out …

Anyway, to say it simply … the movie already gives us an “out” of not needing Rey’s “plot the course” when we have DO, who’s from Exegol, could give them direction … let alone the idea that a bunch of other ships, from big to small, wouldn’t have been able to do, or are too big, to do the maneuvers that were shown.

I see this from the other perspective - since we were considering removing Finn’s line about “Palpatine has always wanted Rey alive,” but we weren’t sure how to make the scene work without that line, I say we should just axe the whole scene. If we assume that they learn about Exegol and how to get there just by tracking Rey, we won’t need D-O for anything except toy sales.

sherlockpotter said:

Getting away from the overarching storylines discussion, here are my edits for the color corrected Medal Insert shot. If someone wants to take them and enhance them further (such as by adding in a rain effect), of if they have other suggestions for them, that would be amazing.

• V1 - very slight lighting enhancements
  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fD2opxFmZ4zRZy77guj3x01GNVce6_Ok/view?usp=sharing
• V2 - Much brighter light, trying to closely match the hue and brightness of the surrounding footage. Color mask has been placed on the left side of the screen, to try and mimic the position of the light behind Leia
  https://drive.google.com/file/d/16obTOvPDtcWNq3_wzGfOV3neVO8T-MIn/view?usp=sharing
• V3 - Same as V2, but shifted slightly to the right of the frame
  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mGiBdegVVlQLx3RcUjRtGE56qIOGIcU7/view?usp=sharing

I’ve added some film grain that seems to match the quality of the other footage (but let me know if I should tweak it). Thanks to Burbin for the suggestion - I think it definitely helps to tie everything together! And as a bonus, the color banding doesn’t seem as bad anymore! There’s still a little bit of weird brightness to the right of Leia’s right hand, but that seems to be in the original footage too.

I’ve also gone and made it slightly more blue.

Unless there are any other suggestions, here’s V4, both in context of the scene to make sure it all matches, and as an isolated clip to make inserting it as simple as possible for Hal.

Scene: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zuDJLLg96FG7RyU7b56Fe0OVT6GLdqkf/view?usp=sharing
Clip: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DzaKiOT4X4DKFrPOTqiZpysUfoUDTsT7/view?usp=sharing

You may have to download the video to see the full quality. This is a screenshot of how it should look:

V3: https://i.imgur.com/4xIMw0w.png
V4: https://i.imgur.com/DynQOUH.png

Chase, I compared the output to my DaVinci Resolve setup, and it seems like the color banding only gets really bad in the final render:

In editor: https://i.imgur.com/EhBFm9P.png
Render: https://i.imgur.com/4xIMw0w.png

I’m assuming it has to do with my export settings. I selected MP4, H.264, 1080p, Automatic “Best” quality, Encoding Profile: Auto, Data Levels: Full. Any idea what else I should be looking for to avoid the banding problem?

Ah, yeah, I see what you mean. Good call on the grain - I’ll see if I can figure out how to do that.

Any opinions on which version is best? Or should it be shifted over any more?