rocknroll41

theprequelsrule said:

imperialscum said:

SparkySywer said:

rocknroll41 said:

Servii said:

Rodney-2187 said:

I’ve already seen opinions of TFA and TLJ improve.

The OT is revered because it’s a well made set of films.

Art is subjective. If the OT was as objectively well-made as you say then why did places like Time Magazine and Empire Magazine shit on ESB when it was new? We also mustn’t forget that a lot of people also crapped on RotJ up until TPM was released.

Art is subjective, and the quality of a movie is subjective. But the OT is undeniably popular, and not simply just because it’s old or because le Star Wars fans are le dumb. It’s also incredibly influential, in a way the PT and ST, like them or not, never will be.

Agreed completely. As I stated so many times on these forums, films are purely subjective, there are no two ways about it.

Still OT has something special that extremely few films ever had or ever will.

To say “purely subjective” is a rather extreme position. There may be an element of subjectivity, but there objective elements. Is Britney Spears as good a musician as Mozart?

Apples to oranges. Comparing a classical orchestra composer to a pop singer, or comparing a movie made by an actual filmmaker (Citizen Kane) to a movie made by a mentally-ill person who’s likely a runaway criminal (The Room) is not the same thing as simply comparing one Star Wars movie to another Star Wars movie.

Both of you make fair points, but the OT also had an entire generation of existing alone (at least as far as movies are concerned) to “stand on its own.” If the ST was made immediately after the OT (which I believe was the plan at one point), things would be very different. But because an entire generation went by (16 years for the PT and 32 years for the ST), both of the latter trilogies had to in some way or another metaphorically “respond” to the pop culture influence of the OT. I’m in the minority in that I don’t think the OT is as “holy” as most people do, but I’ll stop trying to push that argument because, frankly, I forgot that I was posting on a forum called originaltrilogy.com

Servii said:

Rodney-2187 said:

I’ve already seen opinions of TFA and TLJ improve.

The OT is revered because it’s a well made set of films.

Art is subjective. If the OT was as objectively well-made as you say then why did places like Time Magazine and Empire Magazine shit on ESB when it was new? We also mustn’t forget that a lot of people also crapped on RotJ up until TPM was released.

fmalover said:

I suggest a little experiment.

Try watching TLJ after watching the OT, and you’ll find it works pretty well as a coda to the saga.

I’ve posted previously that if it were up to me, I would have started the ST with TLJ or at the very least a movie that bears a strong resemblance to it.

I’ve thought about this as well. Each ST film seems to work best when they’re each viewed as a self-contained coda to the OT (rather than a trilogy themselves), and TLJ especially best fits this angle.

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

The way I see it, if you write new characters that are compelling enough, then you wouldn’t have to worry about the OT characters overshadowing them. If the OT heroes keep having the spotlight gravitate back towards them in your script, then maybe that’s a sign you need to improve your new characters. It’s not that hard to have the audience care about new people while still getting a thrill out of seeing the old cast back in action. Just have Luke be a Dumbledore or Gandalf-like figure to a new generation of Jedi. It’s not that hard.

Agreed. Instead they just settled on rehashing the OT with Rey as Luke. So who cares? Been there. Done that. Now your main protagonist is the least interesting character. Oops.

Having Finn as the protagonist would have been much more interesting.

Absolutely. Finn was by far my favorite character in TFA. It’s a shame what they did to John Boyega. His character had so much potential. Plus, who better to fit the message of “Heroes can come from anywhere” than a former Stormtrooper?

What happened to Boyega?

I just mean the way they deliberately sidelined his character, in later drafts of TFA as well as in the next two sequels, after JJ initially cast him to be the male lead. There’s a great video that goes into detail about it by this guy called Okiro. The video’s called “Finn, the Lost Protagonist.”

Yeah as I’ve said elsewhere on here before, I think they shoulda stuck to the plan of killing Poe early on in TFA, so that Finn could have more room to breathe.

fmalover said:

My unpopular opinion on the ST: TLJ will be redeemed by the passage of time and stand out as the only worthwhile entry of the ST.

This is my guess (and hope) as well.

I was thinking just now about how Kathy said during the promo tour for TRoS that they weren’t sure where they were going next and that one of the questions they were asking themselves was “Do we go to a new Galaxy?” And honestly, that’s something I could see Rian wanting to do, especially since he even said he wanted his trilogy to be set “in a new corner of the Star Wars universe.” I even think a title like Star Wars: A New Galaxy would have a nice ring to it.

As far as release date goes; my theory is that Disney is waiting to see what happens with Avatar 2&3 before green lighting 4&5. If 2&3 fail, then Rian can swoop in and take up the spots that 4&5 were supposed to have (Xmas 2026 and Xmas 2028).

Slightly off-topic, but Rian said again today that his trilogy is still happening. Idk if he really means it tho.

jedi_bendu said:

This show gets better and better every week.

Couldn’t agree more! I’m gonna be sad when it’s over. Might just watch the whole thing again immediately after.

WandaVision is easily my favorite MCU thing outside of GotG1 and Ragnarok. Unlike most people, I actually wish the show would take its time more and keep focusing on the meta sitcom stuff, rather than what’s going on outside the literal bubble. That being said, considering that there are only 9 episodes in total, I understand why the show needed to start moving a little faster, after the first few episodes.

Nah I’m of the opinion that if the OT somehow came out today, to THIS fanbase, it would’ve been ripped to shreds (especially RotJ, with the sibling retcon and whatnot).

I wrote a new 4-part series of blog posts summarizing my overall thoughts on the current state of pop culture. Part 1 discusses superheroes (particularly how I find the MCU to be a bit overrated), so I felt it was appropriate to share here: https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/02/how-i-really-feel-about-pop-culture.html?m=1

My ideal ST would involve backtracking to RotJ and killing Han there, like they almost did.

That time period is too small for a show. Do it after TRoS instead.

rocknroll41 said:

I wrote another series of Star Wars articles (three this time) where I analyze each film and show one at a time. Here’s Part 1 (there’s a link to the next part at the end of each post): https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-good-bad-star-wars-lucas-era.html?m=1

I’m putting this link here cause it details a lot of my unpopular opinions.

For whoever is interested, I have now added a Part 4 to the series of blog posts above (sorry, couldn’t help myself). I go into detail about why I thought certain things in TLJ were justified (Luke’s arc, Finn’s arc, the Holdo maneuver, etc.), and also defend some other controversial moments in the franchise that even I don’t like, just for the sake of playing devil’s advocate.

I promise that this is my last starwars blog post for awhile, so I’ll stop spamming this thread with my blog. Thanks.

Easily the most overrated starwars movie of all time. I’m pretty sure the only movies I dislike more than it are AotC and TRoS.

Thanks for the shoutout! That was a great read 😃

Never knew any of that stuff about WEG actually, but that explains a lot! Will have to look into it further.

Pakka said:

rocknroll41 said:

I wrote a blog post a few days ago detailing why the Mando season finale disappointed me: https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/01/mandalorian-made-me-mad.html?m=1

On the subject of starwars, I also published another blog post today on why I dislike the character of Poe Dameron, in particular: https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-problem-with-poe-dameron.html?m=1

I really enjoyed your essays, particularly your big 4-parter from November. In fact, it was part of what spurred me to finally write my own essay (https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/star-wars-has-felt-off-to-me-since-1980-essay/id/82758), putting down my conflicted feelings about Star Wars as it has developed and changed over the last 40 years.

Thanks! I’ll definitely check your essay out too! I also just wrote another new one: I wrote another series of Star Wars articles (three this time) where I analyze each film and show one at a time. Here’s Part 1 (there’s a link to the next part at the end of each post): https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-good-bad-star-wars-lucas-era.html?m=1

I wrote another series of Star Wars articles (three this time) where I analyze each film and show one at a time. Here’s Part 1 (there’s a link to the next part at the end of each post): https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-good-bad-star-wars-lucas-era.html?m=1

I’m putting this link here cause it details a lot of my unpopular opinions.

While I agree with the thread title, I can’t deny the fact that the Yoda vs Palpatine duel in RotS is a guilty pleasure of mine! 😛

That being said, I absolutely hated the Yoda vs Dooku duel in AotC, and the Palpatine vs Windu/Council duel in RotS.

RogueLeader said:

rocknroll41 said:

I wrote a blog post a few days ago detailing why the Mando season finale disappointed me: https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/01/mandalorian-made-me-mad.html?m=1

On the subject of starwars, I also published another blog post today on why I dislike the character of Poe Dameron, in particular: https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-problem-with-poe-dameron.html?m=1

I’m really enjoying these! I feel like my own feelings on the films/shows line up with yours a lot.

Thanks! Glad to hear that 😃 I plan on writing at least one more Star Wars-related post (for now). Will let you know when that’s up!

I wrote a blog post a few days ago detailing why the Mando season finale disappointed me: https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/01/mandalorian-made-me-mad.html?m=1

On the subject of starwars, I also published another blog post today on why I dislike the character of Poe Dameron, in particular: https://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-problem-with-poe-dameron.html?m=1

Mocata said:

They would never admit fault and retcon anything, but Clone Wars sets a precedent for additional media that normalises and patches over mistakes for an existing trilogy over time.

Star Wars has had a precedent to retcon things since the moment Vader said “I am your father” way back in 1980.

Lucas the Barbarian said:

-Vader’s theme in A New Hope suits him better than the Imperial March.
-The instrumental second half of Jedi Rocks is actually pretty tolerable.
-Yub Nub/Ewok Celebration is superior to Victory Celebration (and I say that as someone who grew up with the latter and didn’t find out about the former until I was 12 years old).
-The Last Jedi is the best film in the ST because it actually tried to go outside the box and sUbVeRt eXpEcTaTiOnS, even if it failed spectacularly at it.

I agree with all of this except for the second half of your last point. I actually think TLJ did a good job with “subverting expectations,” but to each their own.

Loved the PT when I was a kid, but then grew to hate it.

Used to think ESB was perfect, like everyone else, but now I think it’s overrated.

Used to dislike TLJ cause it didn’t feel like the middle act of a trilogy, but then I adapted the “fuck trilogies anyway” mindset, so now I love it.

And opposite to that; I used to like TRoS for “ending the saga,” and then I developed the “fuck the saga” mindset, so now I hate it.