rockin

That looks pretty damn good actually.

As it is, I think it's fine to watch, but that's just me.

Mielr said:

Even on HTF the Lucas apologists have been unusually quiet today - maybe now they've gotten a little taste of what it's like to have your favorite films ruined.

I think Lucas really has gone too far this time.

You should see over at blu-ray.com. Some of the same apologists still saying they don't mind the new changes and I'm sure I read one of them say that they thought it was in fact better... I seriously do wonder sometimes.

doubleofive said:

That "No" isn't true. It's impossible. You'd think if Lucas always intended Vader to say "no" HE WOULD HAVE HAD HIM DO IT BEFORE NOW.

Yeah it's sounding more and more like this release is one big prank to annoy people, but then again... you never know with George..

Anyone tried the new Sennheiser HD 518's and know if they are better than the previous HD 515's? I had a chance to listen to some 518's and they seemed pretty damn good, but never heard them in comparison to the more expensive 555/558/598/595. Everyone says the 515's suck compared to the more expensive models, so I'm just wondering if the 518's are similar or improved.

How can it get any worse? Does Lucas read all the things OT fans wish would never happen, then make a list and apply them to take us up the ass? It seems like he does it on purpose almost..

Glad I'm not wasting nearly £70 on it. I've bought these movies enough times already.

danny_boy said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

There's quite a bit of people talking past each other here.  A transfer is a digitized file taken from a film.  A release is a digitized file found on a DVD.  A lot apparently happened between the transfer and the release in terms of added CGI, color "correction" (lol), soundtrack, etc.  I have little doubt that the transfer done for the 2004 discs was probabaly excellent, judging by the detail.  But that doesn't mean the release is good, or true to the originals.

It certainly makes sense to use the release with the best clarity to try and reproduce a decent facsimile of the OT.  That is because colors are largely correctable, but sharpness is not.  Content is also not correctable (obviously), except that people like Harmy and Adywan have managed to take great pains to try and restore those scenes that have been damaged.

We don't have access to the original transfers - nobody does except Lucas. And there doesn't exist a decent modern release.  It should be obvious to danny_boy or any other SW fan that just because one would use the 2004 discs on which to base a transfer doesn't mean we think they are accurate, or that they are watchable. To wit, what do you think would turn out better, a 2004-based project that has been color-corrected and despecialized, or a 1993-based project that has been sharpened?  The answer should be obvious (2004-based), but that doesn't mean that it has better colors, or is better watching out of the box.  Because it clearly has terrible colors, especially ESB, and is full of inane distracting crap.  Every indication is that the blu-ray will have even better detail, but it will still be unwatchable because of the crap done to it for release, and will therefore need to be fixed by somebody here in order to make it a reasonably watchable facsimile of the OT.

This is the only movie in the world in which this discussion is taking place. That isn't our fault, it's Lucas' fault.

I agree with your points.

But there is also a certain degree of subjectivity with regards to how one percieves the quality of a video transfer like the 2004 DVD.

The Godfather also came in for some critisism because fans were surprised how vibrant some of the colours were(in what is generally considered to be a dark film) in the Blu Ray  transfer----- even though there was no reference because Francis Ford Coppola conceded that he could not even remember how it originally looked!

But he nonetheless approved the restoration performed by Robert Harris.

I, like many here,  want a 4k/1080/2k transfer of the OUT in the best quality possible, but it does not mean that I(or any of you) cannot appreciate or enjoy the 2004 DVD exactly for what it is ---- by far and away the best the film has ever looked in an official  home video presentation.

Sorry but those 1997 laserdiscs do not hold a candle to it(this does not apply to the audio)----But that is my opinion which of course any one is entitled to disagree with.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but how can you say 2004 DVD looks better ? Have you seen how ROTJ looks and how bad the end battle is and how messed up the lightsabers are between Luke and Vader? You can't say that is how it has always been either, since for them to fix that for the blu-ray would indicate they did something wrong previously with the transfer. I would say the 1997 ROTJ laserdisc (colour wise - forget 'detail') is the best ROTJ has ever looked. As for ANH and ESB, there doesn't seem to be a clear cut 'look' which they should definitely stick to being, but the cores were definitely not always pink for Vader when you only go back to 1997 and they are red and vibrant in ESB and ROTJ - everyone knows this!!

It seems like anyone who does not agree with special edition changes or isn't really into the PT gets cyber bullied over there lol.

There was a discussion a while back about the PT, and I basically said of all the prequel movies I liked TPM in terms of film making process the most, because it was the last movie to be shot on film and using real sets as opposed to digital hd cameras and green/blue screen rooms. Like many here, I got shot to pieces with what seemed like 4 or 5 members over there ganging up on me saying my claims were absurd. It's like nobody is allowed to have a point of view that doesn't conform with their own little 'group'. I am actually starting to wonder if they are a cult group or something.

With regards to the saber changes, it's so obvious that those that cannot see it are clearly in some sort of denial - or they are so deluded by their asskissing to all Lucas' changes that they cannot see what other people see. I actually do wonder at times how so many of them can throw their faith into Lucas with every change having some sort of importance/intention and not being accidental changes or errors. Do they really believe every change has a special reason behind it and it should not be questioned? lol

I can't notice anything but then I am not sure what I am looking for in the first place. xD

Once this is all done Harmy, be sure to take a well deserved break. I don't know how you or anyone else here is able to continuously work on these movies without getting sick to death of them. :-P

EyeShotFirst said:

I think he started out trolling people for pleasure, and it's changing him. He'll be hiding under bridges before the blu ray even comes out.

ROFL!

The reason I asked why he was intoxicated is because you don't spell things that bad unless you are drunk/high or just plain trolling. It seems to be more the latter, but his ramblings do make me wonder whether it is more than that at times.

Ken how come your posts are so inconsistent? Some posts you sound like a semi-intelligent person then others you sound like you're intoxicated by some substance. LOL stop the drugs dude or whatever it is you are on.

The thing I am suspicious of is why release a trailer showing 2004 transfers of the OT if that is not what they are going to release? Furthermore showing new PT transfers in the trailer and not the OT, must steer more towards this is what we are getting. I mean, why show one new transfer and not the other? I'd like to think there is a genuine good reason for it but I just think it is wishful thinking, probably because there is no new transfer of the OT..

This is like the closest thing to fans will get to having the original trilogy in HD on blu-ray. I applaud your efforts, along with that of Harmy and OmegaMattman.

Is this making its way to myspleen OmegaMattman?

Damn, that looks gorgeous! :O

Harmy said:

Hang on, are you actually talking about the Partly Despecialized Editions or do you mean the new Despecialized ones?

And anyway, Jedi is also my favourite of the old PDE versions (and I mean the cut, not the film) but this new Despecialized Version should totally blow it out of the water, becuase as you can see in that clip, there will be no more purely GOUT shots where it can be helped (and unfortunately there are whole scenes like the music number where it can't) where the PDE was basically just splicing GOUT shots into the SE.

Side note: As you can see, the subtitles have not been replaced yet in that clip and to be honest I'm pissing blood just thinking about it, because where in STAR WARS replacing the subs was a matter of one scene, in Jedi they are all over the place. But as there seems to be high demand for original looking subs, I think I will do it and this time hopefully without drops in quality like in my ROTJ DVD reconstruction.

Ah sorry Harmy, I wasn't clear. I meant that any improvements to ROTJ in my opinion stand out more than some (not all) of your other work because ROTJ is so messed up in the 2004 SE. So any improvment (if only small) is going to look fantastic in ROTJ because there are so many more things wrong with it in the 2004 SE, but again my opinion. The fact you keep getting things better and better with each PDE makes it truly amazing.

I can take some of the changes in the 2004 SE for ANH and ESB by Lucas but the new stuff in ROTJ is just damn horrible. So I thank you for your work so far on ROTJ, I really do.

While any encodes are going, you should hail to the king - play some Duke Nukem Forever 8)

Why is it ROTJ PDE always and i mean ALWAYS looks hugely better than the other PDE versions in my opinion? My answer: I think it's because ROTJ 2004SE is such a shoddy version that any improvments are going to look great. For one, the colour looks about 100x better in that recent clip.

(No disrepect to the other PDE versions by the way - just I see the improvments more in ROTJ because I really disliek the 2004 SE of this film much more than the rest).

If ESB is anything to go by, then SW and ROTJ PDE should be absolutely amazing also. :-P

Ady,

Sorry for your loss. I am always lost for words when any person passes and I can only realise how weak and fruitless it must be with any words of mine that could attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. 

I wish you all the best Ady to both you and your family, and hope you take that long needed break that has been so long overdue and desperately needed.

All the best.

rockin.

I checked out your ESB Lee. It was very good but like Chewbacca said, it seemed a bit too dark. The colours however were very close to the stills photography you see of ESB which made the experience very fresh and interesting.

I'm interested to see what you bring to the table with ROTJ as well.

Harmy said:

I just skimmed through the whole G'Kar Jedi and the smearing is unbelievably bad on that one throughout, even in the brighter scenes, which is unusual. And I think it is DVNR because from what I read, the TB version has less smearing but more dirt and grain.

I'd take dirt and grain over DVNR any day! But does the TB version suffer from compression artefacts?

It's unfortunate there is just no good copies of the 1997 SE anywhere. The Flunk version is about the best there is for ANH, while still having problems. ESB and ROTJ, seem to be even worse due to few sources.

Shame really, ESB deserves better really. The 1997 SE version is my favourite version of them all, and there just isn't a source available that does the PQ and AQ justice, so I can totally understand why d_j wants to mix and match sources for all of them.

That latest video is really epic. I forgot I was watching a mix up of GOUT/04SE, because it blended in so well together. I really like the colour of the Death Star interior as well - looks very close to the technicolour shots we've seen. Nice Harmy!

I support dark_jedi's reasons - afterall he wants to see it in its best form as much as we do. However at the same time, I understand why people are desperate to see it, which I think mainly stems from the fact that the broadcast versions are just not available anywhere, and regardless of quality people just want to 'watch' them. But again, I can understand why d_j wouldn't want his name attached to the release of these versions as they are, if they weren't upto a standard he was happy with.