That matte painting behind Han and Lando with the falcon is maybe the worst effect in the OT. It's not an error per se but a real error in judgement!
Good point that ILM shut down their practical effects shop. That's pretty sad to hear. I wonder if Henson's group is working on episode 7.
That sebulba example from Jedi is pretty terrible :) I think bad cg takes you out of the film more (reminds you it isn't real) then say a badly done physical creature effect.
I know as big OT fans we all love practical creature effects but that thing in the JJ video looked horrible.
The creature shop at ILM for Jedi (where 99% of the creatures looked great) knew what to hide and how to make a creature look alive even when it was just some latex plastic thing. Most of it has to do with great design and lighting. Jabba is a masterful example. Some of his close shots didn't look that good but his mediums were stunningly real. All due to lighting and talent.
The reason some CG works well in broad daylight (think Sebulba) is because if done correctly you had a bigger chance of looking real then say a latex creature fully exposed in light where you can see materials, man in suit etc. The practical creature team on the prequels was pretty bad though. Just look at Yoda...
My point is its a mix. If your going to do practical creatures you need insane talent and good lighting to make it work. As it stands, that creature in the video was poorly designed and downright awful. Sorry JJ. Broad daylight today you need CG unless you got Phil Tippet working for you who has some new technique up his sleeve
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TheBoost said:
I saw it six times, including a midnight opening and noon the next day. Even noticing it was a little disappointing in many ways around the third time, I was still having more fun seeing it than any other movie that summer. I still have the VHS I bought of it the day it came out.
This is exactly what I did. Midnight release and then a noon showing the next day. I enjoyed the film alot. I still think it has some pretty strong moments and the production design is great.
I had literally followed every spoiler I could get ahold of and even read the script beforehand. I just remember being disappointed in the jar jar visual gags which were added during the post production, ILM tweaking stage where Lucas probably came up with gags on the spot.
In defense of the prequel CGI, the actual practical creatures on Ep. 1 were pretty terrible. Look at that dealer in Mos Espa who shouts at Jar Jar or any of the Nimodians.
This probably means that the creature shop they had for Ep. 1 just didn't have the talent of the guys from 1982-83 on Jedi.
However the creature CGI is pretty solid in ep. 1. Sebulba looks fantastic and still holds up today.
Also consider Matte Paintings vs CGI digital painting. Only the best Matte Paintings can hold up on screen for more than a few seconds (the warehouse in Raiders probably the best matte ever done as its on screen for a very long time) while Digital CGI paintings can be held onscreen longer since the integration and lighting can be done the point that its seamless. However this involves alot of time and work that isn't put into every shot.
Not all shots in the prequels hold up, some do and some don't. But the same could be said about the OT. The Matte in Jedi of the Falcon is one of the worst Mattes ever done but its also in a film with one of the best (the Emperor's arrival).
Speaking of the Holiday Special, does anyone remember between 1977-1983 when you'd tune into some television show and they'd announce "and a special appearance by R2-D2 and C3PO!"
And the droids would come on stage and say something and then they'd cut to Donny and Marie.
Never forget.
Tobar said:
doubleofive said:
They dub Ewok dialog from Jedi over them, with a subtitle that says something like "You go, Lando!"
That's definitely not a soundbite from ROTJ. I'd bet the sound team over at Lucasfilm recorded it for them though. Here's Billy Dee's entire segment.
Speaking of ROTJ, I'm loving this BTS footage.
Thanks for posting the link to Billy Dee's segment. I definitely got some 70s Holiday Special flashbacks with the Meco music and dancing.
I don't think Billy Dee was up for dancing. I hope they paid him well. This segment is a good example of the beginning of the Disney Star Wars push. They already know they have the hardcore fans interested but they want to keep Star Wars in the "cool" area of the public consciousness. The housewives need to be sold on Star Wars so they buy Disney Star Wars items for their kids. We're going to see more stuff like this I'm sure leading up to ep. 7.
Hal 9000 said:
ratpack1961 said:
They are probably being written write now.
I see what you did there.
Haha! I wish that was intentional. Your logic is flawless as ever Hal and I think your correct about the ae-35 unit we should replace it :)
Just thought of this issue, for all the EU fans.
Ep. 7 is going to come out and with it will be a bunch of tie in novels. These will be new extended takes on characters featured in ep. 7. Kinda like the prequel novels that centered on Obi Wan's training etc.
They are still coming out with EU novels but eventually these ep. 7 novels will take precedent. They are probably being written write now.
Are these novels going to be EU since they are after ep 6? Most likely they are starting an alternate timelline. So at some point Disney will have to announce the EU is done and this new timeline takes over. So Mara Jade will be erased from existence...
As Doc Brown would say Great Scott!
This isn't disco but I love this rockin version of the Imperial March from the Return of the Jedi game for Amiga
Mos Eisley is the biggest reason I prefer the Original Untouched Trilogy to the SEs. What made ep. 4 so special was the lived in believability of the environments. It came from the European comic books Lucas was into (he has a copy of the book Valerian in his office which is a great Heavy Metal-esqe comic).
The original Mos Eisley looks run down, not alot of people, and overall dumpy. Its a very used looking Space Port. The special edition version is populated with CG characters that our eyes know are completely unreal. It takes us out of the scene and reality of the movie completely.
The dewback scene, which comes earlier, is similar. The Dewbacks in the background of the OUT are not moving but our eyes can't make them out that well so it looks real. The CG dewbacks are obviously animated so the reality of the situation is lost.
darklordoftech said:
ratpack1961 said: Disney is basically retconning out the prequels
Isn't that just a rumor on Latino Review?
Its a guess on my part really but I have a feeling its going that way. We're not getting Rinzler's Making of Episode I for instance. I know they want to concentrate on ep. 7 but really those books are for hardcore fans. They really want to put the prequels behind them. I bet there are a few winks and nods in ep. 7 that the prequels didn't happen or things happened differently "from a certain point of view"
As an OT fan that does like the prequels also, for the most part, I think the kid has a point about the characters. You may say Anakin is whiny sure but there is at least abit of depth to him as compared to say Han Solo. Its interesting that Han was my favorite character as a kid and now I can see what Harrison Ford was talking about in that he had no history or real point to the story past ESB. All we know about him is that he rescued Chewy from slavery and that's in the backstory novels that you had to read besides seeing the movies if thats even Canon.
The Prequels also have a large scale epic quality to them in terms of scope (large armies assembled etc) that makes the OT seem abit smaller in scale. I think to a kid growing up now who is used to CG movies, the OT's smaller scale will definitely make an impact on what they prefer. And to be honest those large assembled armies were in Lucas' original draft (which is why I like that epic scope the prequels do bring).
Now that Disney is basically retconning out the prequels (its shocking they are letting the remaining Clone Wars episodes out there) we're going to see more of these types of fans come out and get vocal about the prequels and what they find good about them.
This show is coming out really fast if you think about how long it has been since the Disney buy out. They are probably not putting the same amount of effort into it as they did Clone Wars where everything was scrutinized.
That character design is very Disney so yeah they are already getting their influence in. Another random thought I had watching it is that Disney really only bought this property for the OT and to make quick money off of the OT. I will be very surprised if we ever see anything prequel based from Disney.
In one of the articles that discussed the Luke's kids rumor, it said that Lucas and Arndt fought against it and Lucas relented because it was JJ's film.
I don't think Lucas is happy with the change at all. He spent years working on the prequels and the Clone Wars. He was essentially done with the OT and its characters in any way. It was only when he had to sell the company that he came up with something. And those ideas are now being thrown out by JJ and Kasdan and thats why Arndt left.
Great link and article. A few thoughts
Joe Johnston really created the entire design of Boba Fett. George basically just came up with the name. Its really fitting that he will direct the film. I wish the article had brought that up.
Luke Skywalker having kids goes completely against the prequels and how they thought of the Jedi. If this is true then Luke is either saying the old rule stunk and he isn't following it or the creators are abandoning the prequels completely.
On that note, the voice of Fett in the Special Editions is Temura Morrison. Now if they change that, its not going to fit with the Special Editions which means...
Original Untouched Versions to be released. This could be an indicator.
Tobar said:
ratpack1961 said:
Kathleen Kennedy has worked with Spielberg for the last twenty years to create forgetable audience pictures with very few good exceptions.
Just a small list of films Kathleen has produced:
Raiders of the Lost Ark
E.T.
Gremlins
The Color Purple
Back to the Future
Empire of the Sun
Schindler's List
Jurassic Park
Alot of those films are more then 20 years old and I had mentioned yeah there are a few exceptions. I really meant to refer to films like War of the Worlds, Jurassic Park 3, Twister, Signs...
Films meant for big opening weekends and then forgotten soon after. Thats the exact kind of thinking that would go into having the original OT as the main cast. Great marketing hype but not good for the overall picture.
I know there are alot of OT fans who are excited to see the main cast as the center but I think its a mistake.
The 1977 original was essentially a sci fi film for teenagers and young adults. The kid, the youngish rogue and the smart princess taking on authority, making jokes,and saving the universe. There was that cool villian Vader and the mentor Obi Wan was neat but people walking out of that film really loved and identified with Luke and Han and their journey as younger growing characters.
As much as people here dislike the prequels, it tried to keep that tradition with the main three characters.. It was just overtly more serious, amongst other things.
To have an episode of star wars to be about three old people running around the universe just doesn't work, at least in theory. Old cliffhanger serials that star wars was based on kept the cast usually pretty young. Personally I was fine with seeing some young new characters and Luke as a mentor. I think thats what Arndt wanted and it kept with the concept of what these movies are about. Escapism for kids/teens that adults wont detest.
From the latest postings at TFN, it sounded like Lucas wanted the young main characters but Abrahms and Kennedy said no. Whatever you think of Lucas, he created this entire concept. Kathleen Kennedy has worked with Spielberg for the last twenty years to create forgetable audience pictures with very few good exceptions. And Abrams if he really thinks that Star Wars is only about 3 OT characters including one who was barely used in Jedi (Han) then hes mistaken.
I'm being ignored by JediTemple34. Was it something I said!
Bloopers are a video on the ebook release, CNN got it totally wrong. Kind of amusing. Nice to see ROTJ footage on the news though, reminds me of the hype around 1983.
SilverWook said:
Problem is, we've been teased with the possibility of seeing this footage since the days of Laserdisc. (Definitive Collection, not!) And when we finally got to see some on DVD, then find out there's more, one gets the sense they're holding back, and trickling this stuff out ever since. I don't know of any other franchise that keeps dangling that tasty carrot in front of fans, then yanks it back once we get a bite.
This stuff should have been on the Blu Ray set. Nobody would have minded if it mandated an extra disc to hold it all. Not everybody owns a Apple device, believe it or not.
I watched the footage from all three ebooks last night and this is exactly what I felt, right down to thinking about the Definitive Collection Laserdisc. That Laserdisc set was $250 retail I believe and included that crummy Lucas Creative Impulse book. The extras on that disc, as compared to what they really had in the archives, was appalling.
Alot of the ebook footage of ESB and ROTJ look like they came from a non-effects workprint. Those workprints are filled with so much alternate footage, dialog and animatics we've never seen that its a crime that they have put out so many releases of the original trilogy and shown us practically none of it. I think the only workprint footage we've been shown pre Blu Ray release was on the Making Magic CD-rom from the 90s.
I think Rinzler stating he "found" alot of this stuff is incorrect or misleading. For instance theres a behind the scenes video of the emperor getting thrown by Vader that was shown in Empire of Dreams, we just see the longer version in the ebook. Also they had found the workprint footage by at least the late 90s thanks to all those Star Wars Insider deleted scene articles and the article about the first cut of ANH.
So as a longtime fan, its hard not to feel burned but at least most of it is out there now. We still don't have Luke on dagobah cutting the bars and a few other things (Yak Face arguing on the sail barge with 3PO translating). I just wish we could have it all in one set and not all over the place in 5 different products we have to buy.
Heres a limited set of this book on ebay, Buy Now price of 10 grand
This EditDroid laserdisc is really fascinating when you begin to think of how it got out there.
Was parts of jedi edited in London during filming at elstree? I think this disc was most likely stolen as far back as during production in 1982. The contents of the disc are of the most secret and pivotal scene that everyone wanted to know about with Yoda confirming Vader as Luke's father. Once a workprint was genrerated from the disc's contents it may have been immediately swiped by someone for private home viewing to show off to their friends the big Jedi reveal. The reason I think this was taken from Elstree is once these discs were at skywalker ranch it would have been impossible to walk out with one due to the security there. This is all guessing of course. The ebay seller is actually in Los Angeles but this is someone who is selling off huge amounts of laserdiscs. They must have acquired a huge lot of discs from someone and this just happened to be in the collection.
I think in my opinion this is one of the nicest of Star Wars collectibles to own. Something used in the actual construction of the film. $700 is a total steal and Im glad its gone to the right people for preservation.
Sorry I didn't see this:
You can lock this thread. What a cool find though!
Haven’t seen this posted yet:
http://gizmodo.com/long-lost-laserdisc-found-features-behind-the-scenes-s-1451058117
That laserdisc contains raw workprint footage of multiple takes from Jedi. Looks like all done in Elstree for the Dagobah scenes.
I guess this is surfacing because of the Making of Jedi ebook footage? Hard to say but I can’t wait to see more.