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pupil

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10-Jun-2005
Last activity
23-Jun-2014
Posts
122

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Post
#244601
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244601/action/topic#244601
Time
Originally posted by: Moth3r
Originally posted by: Laserman
Is it just me or does the so called 'original' crawl on the PAL GOUT look errm completely new and CG?
LM, what's your opinion on the "grain" in the GOUT version? Present on the master or added during post?


yep I too would be interested to hear what you have to say Laserman, as far as the technical aspects of the discussion on these forums go, I respect your opinion pretty much above all others. I read you also aren't at all pleased with the treatment that the PAL version was given, could you clarify a few points discussed here, ie, will the colour be inferior on the NTSC version compared to the PAL version (I'm not too sure what format the "master tape" was in so unsure as to what colour it would retain before conversion to MPEG2, would the master be 4:1:1 colour?), will the image in the PAL version be stretched vertically very slightly compared to the NTSC version? I also not convinced by Boris's arguments that the PAL version will have better detail than the NTSC version. In my mind upconverting resolution of a NTSC source to PAL will gain nothing in quality? (I get what you mean about cropping the black border though Boris, thanks for that)

Essentially, which would you buy Laserman, NTSC or PAL? I'm really rather sick of all the arguments with OT Star Wars now, I just want to get the best version and then leave this whole thing alone.

thanks

Post
#244215
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244215/action/topic#244215
Time
Originally posted by: boris
Absolutely not! The picture may actually be greater quality, because they've stretched it (professionally) all the way to the sides of the display, whereas they haven't with the NTSC. Therefore, the thin black borders will distort the picture at the very edges right and left. Also the audio isn't a problem... technically they don't "speed it up" anymore anyway, what they do is they "stretch it" in a way that keeps the pitch consistent (rather then speeding it up, which raises the pitch slightly). Also, you get thicker scan-lines on NTSC which may bother some people, and the NTSC pulldown - which is far worse the speeding the movie up 1 frame per second.

Personally, I don't think it would be worth importing PAL if you live in NTSC-land either.


I've read what you're saying about "stretching the picture to the edges" on two threads now and still don;t know what you mean. Some comparison screen shots would help to clarify. I don't see how you can gain resolution when you are upconverting from NTSC to PAL size, no matter what gets cropped off the edges. Thats like saying if you crop a JPG image to a section in the middle of the images and then stretch that up to the original images resolution, the second imag will be better quality. That defies all "digital" logic, surely?!

You're wrong about the audio anyway, your statement saying "they don't "speed it up" anymore anyway" is totally false. It has been done (very very occasionally) in the past (ie the PAL Faces LD and VHS releases back in '93) but when you listen to the audio on a high fidelity system, it sounds rubbish. No audio engineer with a clue would choose time stretching over just letting the audio be sped up these days, it makes things like the orchestral score sound horrible. PAL Pitch Correction of film soundtracks is to audio what NTSC 3:2 pulldown is to video, both give awful results.

Post
#243294
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243294/action/topic#243294
Time
Thatd be appreciated, thanks Marvolo. If George can't do better than Moth3r or Citizen, then he aint getting my money. If its true about the PAL GOUT being a resized NTSC, then that is absolutely scandalous! I would love to see some side by side GOUT comparisons of PAL vs NTSC to see if the head stretching which would occur in the PAL version is apparent. I downloaded the images that R2D2 uploaded here and compared them to the images in Moth3rs comparison page, and they look stretched to me!
Post
#243276
Topic
Are the PAL GOUT DVDs upscaled from the NTSC masters?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243276/action/topic#243276
Time
I know I found a comparison somewhere, but can't find it now, so could someone post a comparison between the GOUT release and Moth3r's, using either (or preferably both) the NTSC and PAL version of the GOUT release, and even comparing to Citizens releases as well. It honestly sounds like Citizens/Moth3rs releases are better than the GOUT release which is absurd! If this is the case, I would LOVE to see Moth3r do a v1.1 release of his transfers!
Post
#226239
Topic
Koyaanisqatsi - IRE Fullscreen Version (MORE IMAGE!) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226239/action/topic#226239
Time
That's cool, thanks Moth3r, that's exactly what I thought and I would have totally understood if you feel this was against forum rules. I questioned this threads validity in the first post when I originally posted this, just to make sure I wasn't doing anything out of line, but as you say, considering this wasn't actually commercially available, I figured it was ok. It's kinda like Reggio made the ultimate fan preservation of his own film and distributed it via his website

.... and yeah, make sure you own the MGM DVD people if you are downloading this, it's dirt cheap to buy now and it's worth it for the extras at least.
Post
#226069
Topic
Koyaanisqatsi - IRE Fullscreen Version (MORE IMAGE!) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226069/action/topic#226069
Time
Originally posted by: Jonno
There's a further comparison here.

The difference is really quite stunning...

BTW, looks like I was wrong about the audio - they're both DD 5.1. Which raises another issue - how was that achieved? Did they really do a new 5.1 mix from the original music elements?


Ahhh yes, I found that site while researching this but forgot to post it when making this thread. Just looking at the stills, the detail is noticably better on the IRE version, it looks alot more blurred on the MGM DVD. When watching the IRE DVD in motion you will see it has a much more "film grain" look to it, which some may like and some may not, but IMO, I think it gives it a really wonderful film look that alot of DVD's with their remastered sheen lose these days. Obviously it is a pretty straight transfer from the film print without loads of remastering filters etc. I didn't check the bitrate of the rip I have of the IRE DVD (I'm at work atm so can't clarify) but I would expect that it isn't a recompressed version of the DVD Reggio was selling as the film is only 85 mins long so most probably fits quite happily onto a DVD5 at 6.83mb/s bitrate.


.... yep, a quick rough calculation would be ((6.83/8)x60)x86 = 4405.35 MB, therefore it looks to be just a straight rip of the DVD Godfrey Reggio was distributing, no shrinking/recompression applied Excellent.
Post
#226064
Topic
Koyaanisqatsi - IRE Fullscreen Version (MORE IMAGE!) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226064/action/topic#226064
Time
Originally posted by: Krokodyle
I had NO idea it was cropped like this.

I am a long-time fan of this movie. ever since I saw it when it was originally shown back in 1983. I almost bought the DVD from Reggio, but it was just too expensive for me to afford.

And yes, I'd say this was a preservation if I ever saw one. This film deserves a complete remastering and CORRECT aspect ratio...


I totally agree, it's still debated as to what the intended aspect ratio is (but I'd be inclined to think that the cropped widescreen version was MGM's decision and not Reggio's) but I would LOVE to see a HD version of this film. I have a HD XviD version of Baraka and it looks phenomenal compared to the DVD! Would be fantastic if Koyaanisqatsi could get the same HD remastered treatment.

Post
#226062
Topic
Koyaanisqatsi - IRE Fullscreen Version (MORE IMAGE!) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226062/action/topic#226062
Time
Originally posted by: Cassius76
am downloading this from torrentspy.. it simply says _IRE at the end.. is this the right one?



yep Cassius76, thats the correct version to download from torrentspy The torrent named "Koyaanisqatsi_IRE". My computer as seeding away, my upload is kinda slow (wish my ISP would hurry up with its ADSLMax upgrade promise!) but I'm gonna be leaving it seeding for as long as I possibly can.
Post
#225851
Topic
Koyaanisqatsi - IRE Fullscreen Version (MORE IMAGE!) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225851/action/topic#225851
Time
hmmm, yeah, it is a bit of a mystery as to which aspect ratio was "intended", but it is very strange that A) the widescreen release is losing picture information unlike the majority of widescreen releases which have more picture than the 4:3 version. Also B) why would Godfrey Reggio, when putting up the money himself and releasing a very limited release of Koyaanisqatsi when it looked like an official release wouldn't be available for a long time/ever, would he release on DVD the 4:3 version? Surely he would release the version he most wanted people to see, encapsulating his vision of what the final version of the film should be presented as, so suggested this IS the "intended" version.

I know what your saying about films being filmed in 4:3 then cropped in post production (I've doen it myself many times when making small films), but the uncropped version would NEVER get released.

Very Bizarre, but either way, now we can have both versions!! ... and I'm really happy to get to see more picture in this version just like the version I had on VHS before I got the official DVD release.
Post
#225670
Topic
Koyaanisqatsi - IRE Fullscreen Version (MORE IMAGE!) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225670/action/topic#225670
Time
AHA! Good news on the torrent front. My web crawling and forum spamming trying to generate interest in this seems to have got someone to jump back on the torrent and finish it, so I now have the full DVD at 100%

So get downloading this people, its a great release, amazing to see the fullscreen and all of the amazing picture as Godfrey Reggio/Ron Fricke intended. You can get the torrent file from torrentz.com and torrentspy.com still and I will be seeding this little beauty as long as I possibly can as its a real treasure. I think it would be worthy of an upload to myspleen if possible by anyone (or if someone can instruct me how to get uploader privileges).
Post
#225123
Topic
Koyaanisqatsi - IRE Fullscreen Version (MORE IMAGE!) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225123/action/topic#225123
Time

After some researching and background reading about the film Koyaanisqatsi, I found out the following information about the DVD releases that are in existence.

There are two versions available on DVD, the MGM version which is widely commercially available, and the IRE version, whose transfer was commissioned by Godfrey Reggio for its pressing to DVD, several years before the MGM version was announced. The differences between the two versions are that the MGM DVD is in anamorphic widescreen, but bizarrely the IRE version, which is in fullscreen (4:3) resolution, gives a much greater view of the images. There is much debate as to which version was seen as the intended release, but regardless, this IRE DVD is an amazing version to watch if you are a fan of the film.

Check a comparison here and here. As you can see, unlike the majority of 4:3 versions of films, the IRE version wasn’t cropped to get it to fullscreen, but in fact was done the opposite way where the MGM version was cropped to get it down to its widescreen 16:9 aspect ratio. The IRE version is also sharper and better quality (with a higher bitrate) than the MGM release.

The IRE version was released as a very limited release directly from Godfrey Reggio a few years before the MGM version finally came out on DVD, at a time when it wasn’t sure if a studio was ever going to release it on DVD. This release via Godfrey Reggio’s website was very very limited though and is loooooong since unavailable (except via eBay for over $150 per copy). Consider this a preservation commissioned by Reggio when it didn’t look like any other DVD release of the film was due to happen. Now that MGM have released their version, the IRE version has been relegated to the same world as pre-commercial DVD bootlegs, it just so happens that the IRE version is better than the proper commercial release!

Sooooo, for you preservationists and fans of the film, this IRE version is an extremely interesting and enjoyable version to have. A torrent of the IRE version is up and available to snag from torrentspy.com (search for “Koyaanisqatsi_IRE”), and is currently being seeded, so if you are interested, jump on it and get downloading (but please remember to seed this as long as you can once you’ve completed the download).

I’m just the messenger, so no credit goes to me for the rip/preservation of this DVD, the version available via BitTorrent is a straight 1:1 copy of the DVD distributed by Reggio, seemingly no re-compression or alteration has been applied as the original happily fitted onto a DVD5 disc.

pupil

Post
#220208
Topic
audio cd creation help needed.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220208/action/topic#220208
Time
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"With this method, do whatever you need to then save it to WAVE file aftery you're done, so you dont lose quality by recompressing to MP3. Then burn via NERO"

Why not make it a WAV to begin with, and make your edits there, and then burn to Nero? (Unless, of cource, you are making an MP3 CD)


I'm not too sure what you mean. By opening an MP3 file in an audio editor, the editor decompresses it and in its temp directory creates a WAV file of the track, which it works from. Unless you press save at any point (ie, save as MP3) you are working with a WAV to begin with. When you do a final save to WAV once your done, it will save changes to the temp WAV file and then save it where you ask. Works different to how Video Editors like VirtualDub work, as obviously they don't convert the video (say for instance if its a DivX file) to an uncompressed format before you tinker around with it and add effects.

Is that what you mean?

PS, if you are making an MP3 CD, use MP3DirectCut like I mentioned first, so you aren't recompressing an already compressed file.
Post
#219910
Topic
audio cd creation help needed.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219910/action/topic#219910
Time
I highly recommend a piece of software called MP3DirectCut - http://mpesch3.de1.cc/

It is a very simple yet very useful audio editor for editing MP3 files, but changing things like volume, normalising, removing sections etc, it does so with out recompressing the MP3, so if you want to keep it as an MP3, the quality doesn't suffer when you save your changes.

A really good advanced freeware audio editor is Audacity - http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

With this method, do whatever you need to then save it to WAVE file aftery you're done, so you dont lose quality by recompressing to MP3. Then burn via NERO

Pro Tools is complete overkill, normalising and basic editing is the same whatever you use, Audacity will be just as effective. When normalising to peak, set it to peak at -0.1dB and you're sorted, that will help things alot, but each track will still be slightly different as they will have all been mastered differently and will have different RMS volume levels, and the radio will ALWAYS be louder as the radio stations but an extra compressor in their mixing chain at the end before things go out, to conserve bandwidth etc by squashing the sound as much as possible (why music on radio sounds so fatigued and nasty compared to on CD)

Hope this helps.
Post
#216578
Topic
Try to take it easy with the Lucas bashing.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/216578/action/topic#216578
Time
Originally posted by: jack Spencer Jr
I am reminded of the An Evening With Kevin Smith DVD which is a bunch of Q&A appearances by Mr. Smith at various universities around the country. In one segment, he talked about his involvement with a documentary he did with Prince. You know the Purple Rain guy. And how far gone the purple one has become. one of Prince's assitants explained it that Prince has been living in Princeworld for some time now and he doesn't understand things the way you and I do. Such as (paraphrasing):

Prince will come to us and say "I need a camel."

And we will say, "Prince, it's 3 AM in Minnesota in January, and you need a camel. This is not physically nor psychologically possible."

Basically, he's been surrounded by people who have fullfilled his every whim for so long that he does not realize just how stupid it is to ask for things like a camel in Minnesota at 3 AM in January and then to expect this request to be fullfilled immediately.

Michael Jackson is similarly gone into Michaelworld as was seen in that interview show a few years ago now.

Compared to these guys, Lucas is very down to Earth


Haha, I'd like to hang out with Prince, he sound's cool

Post
#216290
Topic
Try to take it easy with the Lucas bashing.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/216290/action/topic#216290
Time
Originally posted by: Grand_Moff_Jawa
First post!

When someone reaches the financial status of George Lucas, the people who work under them tend to hide their true opinions about their work. They all become "yes-men" in a way. Some of the ideas for the PT were truly questionable, but nobody spoke up. I will give George Lucas credit for following his vision, wherever it leads him, but he needs to realize that not everyone will understand or appreciate that vision.


You reminded me of something with that. Anyone here in the UK watch Top Gear last week when Ewan McGregor was on the show. Jeremy Clarkson asks him what it was like to be Obi Wan and be in the new films, and Ewan responds in a totally apologetic way, half implying that he doesn't value the new films at all compared to the OT. You'd think he would have mentioned something a little earlier to Mr Lucas (say while filming EP1) instead of sticking it out for over 6 years and 3 films. Oh well, case of "keep yer mouth shut and keep raking in the money".

Post
#215688
Topic
.: Citizen's NTSC DVD / PAL DVD / XviD project :. (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/215688/action/topic#215688
Time
Originally posted by: Darth Richard

I though that Blu-ray still used NTSC and PAL??!?!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p

Essentially, Blu-ray has the ability to display video at either 24/50/60Hz, like Film or PAL/NTSC TV signals, so depending at what frame rate the footage was filmed/produced it can be put onto Blu-Ray disc at whatever speed it needs to be in, either 24/25/30fps. I'm hoping that over time, especially as the whole HD thing is adopted en masse, we will see a universal frame rate accepted. The whole resolution thing is not an issue anymore as everything will be at 1920×1080 (for 1080 naturally).

PAL and NTSC are really terms used to define the colour encoding systems in analogue TV signals, but is used (kinda incorrectly) to describe resolution and frame rate, but it's not a term that is appropriate for HD signals. The only difference between regions now for HD is the frame rate.

The 24Hz Disc is for Blu-ray only though. HD DVD doesn't allow this, it's still holding on dearly to the old DVD technology of 50 or 60HZ only. IMHO the MAIN reason that Blu-ray should be the successor and not HD DVD.

All this is to my understanding though, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no expert