poppasketti

I can definitely take a look at the AT-AT firing shot but I suspect it wouldn’t be as natural flopped. As you said, it would break the scene’s axis of walkers firing to the right, and Finn does look toward the left of frame after being fired upon from that direction. I do see what you’re getting at, though!

And I also would love to hear other’s thoughts! Is there anything that sticks out? Does the new pacing and flow work? Did we go too far in a few places?!

Hello!

Here’s an updated Version 2B:
https://vimeo.com/288986920 (PW: fanedit)

This version has:
-faster pace for Rose getting shot down
-lasers are not tilted down so much
-more EQ of Finn screaming “Rose”
-Finn’s “Rose!” line moves back so it’s over the shot of Poe
-I’ve added some more lighting to the wide shot of the explosion to match Kylo’s face (and for pacing, it felt a bit off to me before)

We now have 7 FX shots in this sequence alone!

NeverarGreat said:

What I was thinking for cutting to the base when Finn says ‘Rose!’ was that she would get shot down and then it would cut to all of the shots of the Resistance base with the various bits of radio chatter, with Finn’s ‘Rose’ among them.

I tried this but it felt a bit off. For me, It was too much time without seeing Finn, and his eventual reaction shot felt disconnected. So you can see it, though, here’s how it came out:
https://vimeo.com/289148251 (PW: fanedit)

RogueLeader said:

I would trim up the stuff with Rose a little bit more. Basically, have Rose look back, we see an AT-AT shooting, remove the shot of her turning back around, remove the second shot of the AT-AT shooting, and trim the shot of Rose getting shot to start where she is already looking back. That way, we don’t have her looking back, looking forward, and looking back again. It might help the pacing a little bit.

It seems a bit rushed to me, as the music/moment doesn’t have enough time to build, but here’s what it looks like:
https://vimeo.com/289148280 (PW: fanedit)

Alrighty, so I made some adjustment to V2 per NeverarGreat’s feedback. I added an extra shot of the base between Rose getting shot and Finn’s reaction. You still hear Finn yelling “Rose” over the comms. I also made an attempt to add the blast of the door, cutting from the impact to Kylo’s face (RogueLeader’s suggestion). See link below.

I want to organize the links on the Crait Battle. We currently have 3 versions:

Version 1
Version 2A
Version 2B
(Password for all: fanedit)

Version 1 = Finn gets shot down, and we don’t see Rose again until the Falcon.

Version 2A = Finn and Rose each get shot down separately, and Finn drags a badly hurt Rose back to base.

Version 2B = The B version incorporates NeverarGreat’s feedback, attempting to pace out Finn’s reaction and including the door being blasted.

Hal 9000 said:

Thank you for reminding me of your specific plan. I haven’t been paying close enough attention!

No worries! It hadn’t even occurred to me people could use this for edits that kill off Rose entirely, but they are certainly welcome to.

NeverarGreat, those are good thoughts, I will keep them in mind when I can sit down again and tinker. I like the idea of creating more space between Finn yelling “Rose” and his reaction. Another option would be to not have Finn yell anything, as his facial expression and the music do a good job selling the moment.

As for not seeing the blast, it does currently happen off-camera. However, the kiss doesn’t work for me in this version because:
A) There’s a not enough time between Finn getting out of his cockpit and reaching Rose’s crash now that they are much further away. I don’t think there are enough shots we can sandwich in between to make it work (it’s pretty much right before Luke arrives, which I don’t want to touch).
B) Given how hurt she would be after this crash, I’d rather show less of her. Finn drags her back unconscious, and she’s still in bad shape but stable on the Falcon. This is more believable for me. Still, I may give it a shot since it’s always worth trying!

Hal, this could be used that way, although it wasn’t the intent! The plan is not to kill off Rose at all, but for her to be “hurt really bad,” as Finn says. I realize it seems near impossible for Rose to survive that tumbling crash, but I’m hoping those skimmers had great seatbelts and front/side impact airbags.

The sequence is:

1. Rose gets shot down
2. Finn gets shot down
3. Finn gets out of cockpit and yells “Rose.”
4. Kylo Ren, looking at destroyed door, orders the advance.
5. We next see Finn when he’s dragging Rose to base, telling others “Medpack! I need a Medpack! She’s hurt pretty bad.”
6. We see Rose still seemingly unconscious but stable on the Millenium Falcon.

This way Rose doesn’t just disappear after Finn’s suicide run until the Millenium Falcon (like in Version 1). She lives, but is very badly hurt.

RogueLeader said:

Hey, I’m noticing the video flashing sporadically…

Fixed! Thanks for catching, that was my graphics card screwing up. The link is the same.

Thanks for the kind feedback, everybody!

Here is Version 2 where Rose gets shot down:

https://vimeo.com/288927635 (PW: fanedit)

This is a longer video, because I think it helps to see the entirety of the scene when making a radical change like this. There’s nothing new until just before the halfway point.

I have to say I actually think this works. Having Rose shot down in this moment adds motivation for Finn and plays into the hopelessness of the situation, as big_gareth previously stated. Finn’s suicidal decision to continue on actually has more meaning for me now and feels more earned. I’m interested to hear if others feel the same way.

It may be the late hour, but at the moment I’m leaning towards Version 2! A great idea by RogueLeader, a great expansion of the idea by big_gareth, all building on top of darthrush’s excellent edit!

I’d also be interested in this if available!

Here’s the latest for Version 1, where Finn gets shot down while leaving the rest of the scene mostly intact.

https://vimeo.com/288102893 (PW: fanedit)

This has 3 successive FX shots:

1. Finn’s cockpit lighting fx
2. Removed one of the skimmers flying past the camera
3. Removed a skimmer from the wide shot

darthrush, I’ve PM’d you a link to the master prores file. If I make an update I’ll send that to you as well (I’m happy to share with anyone else interested too)!

Now, to version 2, which I hope to get to in the next week or so!

darthrush said:

RogueLeader, I had a similar issue with having an impact shot. What I pretty much did, and it works alright, is cutting from Finn unbuckling out of his skimmer to Kylo in his shuttle.

Yeah, I think what you did works well. When Finn gets out of the crashed skimmer there’s a spark in his cockpit, which could pass for the light from an off-camera explosion. I added a little rumble sound to help sell it (or maybe that was already in darthrush’s version so apologies if I forgot!). I think that’s all you need because in this climactic moment, our focus is on Finn. The music builds well to him getting shot down, and when Finn fails, the destruction of the door is a foregone conclusion.

Darthrush, I’m more than happy to send you the skimmer removal (and I plan to work on the wide shot too). I’d like to refine it a bit more before I send it if that’s alright!

And so I’m not quoting a whole post, RogueLeader, I agree with everything you said!

EDIT: Just fixed some confusing writing. Was typing too fast!

Yeah I’m not sure there’s a softer tumbling shot than what you had. It could just be one of those movie things where a main character gets in a major accident and somehow makes it out with cuts and bruises.

I think flopping the shot works. I also wonder if cutting the earlier shot (and Poe’s reaction) could work so it’s not so much duplication. It may not with the pacing.

My hope right now (before rendering a new workprint) would be for two versions:

1. Keep the scene as-is, improve the first skimmer removal shot, and remove the right skimmer on the wide shot. This way we have Finn shot down, and just don’t see Rose for a bit, but the rest of the scene is intact and “clean.”

2. Rose gets shot down as she’s retreating. This would also require the skimmer removal shots, as well as the new fx of the laser blasts at Rose’s skimmer along the lines of big_gareth’s work. I even think with this version we can leave the rest of the scene the same without Finn and Rose meeting after the crash. He could just get out of the cockpit and say “Rose.” Next time we see them he’s carrying her into base. This fixes the continuity without introducing any distance issue. Been a bit busy lately, so haven’t yet sat down and given version 2 a solid effort!

big_gareth, I’m glad you’ve been inspired and I like your concept for having Rose shot down after she’s turned away. Nice work! It’s definitely a better reaction from Finn. He looks distraught. I do wonder if the shot of the skimmer tumbling is a bit too intense. I’m not sure anyone could survive that!

I like the V2 better, and actually would make the impact effect you added shorter, just a quick flash. I don’t think we need to see it targeting her, we get that idea from the lasers flying past the skimmer. Those lasers look good, by the way, I would just make them red to match what the walkers were firing.

I will have to try this again and see if the audio can help sell the moment, but I definitely think it’s closer!

Also, did you paint out one of the skimmers from the wide shot?! Very nice! I thought of trying that myself; might as well go all the way with it. I also need to fix the V1 of my skimmer removal. The shadows at the bottom of the frame don’t work, and the edge of the smoke is off.

jarbear said:

Also, at least for me, I still see two ships colliding into each other … so for a person like me who sees details … there would need to be someone editing frame by frame and removing Rose’s colliding skimmer.

But that’s people like me who see’s that detail. 😉

So here’s an effort at removing one of the skimmers from the collision to reinforce Finn getting shot down!

https://vimeo.com/287162447 (password: fanedit)

Maybe it’s just for jarbear, but I figured it was worth giving it a shot!
It’s not perfect, but I may be able to improve upon it.

Thank you, darthrush! Your edit of this scene is so fantastic and essential for my enjoyment of the movie. As I’ve said before, Rose’s “rescue” is so illogical to me I have trouble focusing afterward.

While I understand having Rose disappear until the end scene in the Falcon is a bit odd, it’s not out of the realm of the kind of editing that often happens in large scale films. Think of Gandalf‘s staff disappearing in the theatrical Return of the King. Or Han having a “funny feeling” he wasn’t going to see the Falcon again in Return of the Jedi. Or the missing 3rd lesson in The Last Jedi!

I’m still open to having Rose get shot down. I’ve played with it, but haven’t figured out how to make it a real moment, which is kind of required for this to happen to a major character. Overall, if it doesn’t work, though, I’m okay with it as is.

Here’s a very minor update to Finn getting shot down. I added some lighting effects in the cockpit and a bit more sound design to help sell Finn getting hit with a laser blast instead of a collision.

https://vimeo.com/286687330
PW: fanedit

That’s great to hear! Glad you’re excited!

Haven’t posted much recently simply because work has been crazy busy the last couple of weeks.

As I said last week, the only thing on my list at this point is to add a laser blast to Finn getting shot down. Looking at it again, though, I realize it only makes sense to add some sort of light flash on the shot of Finn because that’s when the impact happens.

I may also experiment with RogueLeader’s idea for having Rose get shot down.

In any case, I hope to have a new workprint in the next week or two. This one will have 5.1 surround so I can check that the mix sounds right.

Thank you again, everybody!

Thanks for the feedback! It looks like option B is what I will go with (although I certainly can provide an alt track as Hal suggested).

I think all that’s on my list for the moment is to try and add a laser blast to when Finn gets “shot down”.

I still like RogueLeader’s idea for having Rose get shot down, but at the same time, I love the original flow of the scene (with Rose and Poe trying to talk Finn out of going). I may play with it. I think some music to create the impact Finn feels when Rose gets shot down may help sell it.

Correct! The length / timing has not changed at all.

Good to see there’s interest in both versions! I think I lean towards B simply because it keeps the original score mostly intact and doesn’t repeat TFA as much.

So here’s two ideas for the saber toss, approaching the scene from the perspective that the toss isn’t so much the issue as the comedic timing of it:

Option A (TFA Music)
https://vimeo.com/284544481 (password: fanedit)

Option B (TLJ Music Extended)
https://vimeo.com/284554005 (password: fanedit)

I think the original music played into the joke aspect by swelling and then going silent, so we only hear the wind. This has a “bottom falling out” effect, which works for comedy. So to resolve this, I’ve made some modifications to the score, and I think it plays differently. Instead of a joke, the music emphasizes Luke’s anger.

Option A uses “The Jedi Steps” from TFA to replace most of the score from this scene. It’s not ideal, as using the same music only adds to the oddness of having two versions of the same scene across two movies. Option B is my favorite I think, because there’s very little music change. It’s essentially just sliding the music swell to after the toss, so I just had to add a few seconds of music to bridge the gap.

On a smaller level, I also brought in the bells from “The Jedi Steps” theme a little sooner, right after Finn says “Where’s Rey?” Every time I watched that scene I always felt like I wanted to hear a teasing of bells during the pause before the cut, so I tried it and I think it works. I’m a fan of when music leads into a transition instead of after the cut.

EDIT: Added 2nd Option!

jarbear said:

Wonderful! I would insert that into my edit!

Check your PM! 😉

If anyone else would like full res versions (prores HQ, 5.1 audio) of any specific changes to slot into your edits, please PM me.

The next thing I’d be looking into would be to add a laser blast to show Finn’s ship getting blasted. I’m not sure I could roto out the second ship during the collision, but I think to some (not all!), the mind accepts the shots of the crash as being parts of the same ship. I’m also still thinking about having Rose crash, but for now, leaning against it, because I love the build-up to Finn’s suicide run as it was originally put together.

HyperDown said:

This sounds like a fantastic set of edits coming together here. If you were to include some tweaks to the Luke ‘saber toss’ scene (ala Ivan), this would be really close to my perfect cut.

Thank you, I’m glad you like the edits! I agree it would be nice to improve the Luke saber toss. The thing with Ivan’s version is that he’s very much changing Luke’s character in the movie, having Luke accept his role to train Rey immediately. In this (Hal’s) version, Luke’s saber toss fits with his behavior in the first half and makes the statement that Luke has become jaded. It just looks a bit silly, played for comedy. I like darthrush’s version, with him just dropping it, but I’m not sure yet if that’s what I would want to do. I’m also thinking the music may have something to do with the comedic timing of the moment, and wondering if a music tweak could help.

oojason said:

As an aside, would shortening the amount of time Leia is pulling herself to the ship (likely cutting to Poe’s view from the ship window earlier) help with those who do have issues with the scene overall?

How about this?
https://vimeo.com/283286707 (pw: fanedit)

I found a spot to trim the music, which I think is hard to notice, so I was able to trim 1:05 off of the Leia flying shot and cut sooner to Poe. It also works by trimming the beginning of the Leia flying shot instead of the end, so let me know if you’d like to see that.

I have a problem with the scene conceptually more than execution, but I hope this helps!

Here’s a V5!
https://vimeo.com/283242749 (password: fanedit)

For this version I have rotoscoped BB-8 so his matte should be cleaner. I’ve also scaled him up another 10-15% and added a bit more focus blur.

darthrush, that’s interesting about trimming the Finn shot of him dragging Rose instead of cutting it. That way, at least, we see Finn get back to base. I guess I was just worried it would be confusing as to who he was carrying yelling for a medpack. But it could be anybody, I suppose. I am eagerly awaiting The Dark Cut!

Excellent, glad we’re in a good spot here! Thanks everybody!

jarbear said:

I do think the first BB8 rolling away shot is still a little off since his proportions are a bit off. The wide shot is perfect though!

Still too small, jarbear? I increased the scale about 20%, but I could go bigger. Remember, BB-8 is much smaller than R2D2 and doesn’t go past anyone’s knees. It also has depth of field blur that racks into focus as he moves into the shot, but I could add more?

Ok, here’s a new version (V4) with a tweak to the deleted shuttle scene:
https://vimeo.com/282791574 (password: fanedit)

Addressing NeverarGreat’s comment, I tried cutting the planet shot from the deleted scene. Unfortunately, the music edit was rather abrupt going from Rose smiling to the 2nd fiery exterior.

So I tried something different. I actually liked the way the ship left the hangar (which I’ll call Exterior A) and cut to the wide shot of it flying out of the debris (Exterior B) in the theatrical version. The music was good and so was the visual flow. The way it’s cut in the deleted scene is to use Exterior A and B to bookend the interior shuttle stuff. To me it cuts way too fast from Exterior A to the interior with Finn and Rose, and is awkward at the end when it cuts back to Exterior B because the explosions and debris don’t match the interiors.

Instead, I kept the theatrical music and flow of the two exteriors as it was theatrically, and put the Finn/Rose shuttle scene after. It feels like the right timing to me, but I’m wondering how it sits with others!

Thanks for all of the good feedback!

NeverarGreat, I agree the last shot of Crait is a little empty, so one of the cuts you suggested would make sense. I’ll take another look at that!