I think that’s his idea yes, so to add motivation for him pulling out his lightsaber and failing Kylo-Ren. I don’t know how much it would help though, and might be distracting.
Edit: I also wonder if it would shrink the universe too much, where it feels like Luke is reacting more to Han’s death than the other hundreds (thousands?) of deaths Ren is responsible for.
Yes, thanks Hal! I will likely be using his audio and dropping in the Wilhelm scream where he used it!
FreezingTNT2, I suppose that could work, but I’m not sure how much that would really add. It would just be a tease in a flashback for a future moment we’ve already seen (kind of mind bending actually).
^ I agree. I think it makes the most sense being a stormtrooper (how Hal has it) as part of general action, not major drama.
It is strange that there seems to be some debate (from a quick google search) over whether Kylo’s saber swing is some form of the Wilhelm scream. It sounds like a distorted version of it to me, but the sound editor apparently says they decided not to use it anymore.
RL, thanks for the correction, it’s that first swing. That is a Wilhelm scream, right?
The thing about the hanger explosion is it’s kind of a terrifying moment for Poe and that resistance pilot we see die. I’m not sure it would feel appropriate there. Hal has it in the perfect spot in his edit, but I cut that scene.
Since it’s there, anyway (I think), I don’t really feel strongly that we need another one. I’m open to it, though, if if we really need one!
stevepaynter, I’m watching that thread, but I don’t know how much can really be done with that. We’ll see!
Yeah, Hal added the scream during the BB8T-ST, but for this edit that scene has always been cut. But, and interesting how this dovetails back, isn’t there a distorted wilhelm scream during the Matrix slomo shot? I remember when Hal first hid his in the movie I thought I heard it during the Matrix shot. There’s definitely some strange wilhelm-like noise.
TNT, I generally defer to John Williams’ music choices, and I’m okay with however he wants to end the title crawl. There are some moments I wish we had (“The Jedi Steps” never really got a full orchestral cue, except in the trailer, which isn’t as good as it would’ve been if Williams himself had composed it), but I’m happy with the music overall.
Sorry to be so late to catch up to the conversation! I’ll try to weigh in on some of the topics being discussed.
I know there’s a split here, but it seems many are happy with it and it never bothered me. I’ll ask some family, though, and see what they think before making a final decision!
This line may be strange considering TROS, but I also think it still works.
For one, pacing-wise it’s fantastic, as Kylo pours on the pain building up to his proposal:
-Your parents were no one.
-They dispassionately sold you.
-You have no place here.
-You’re no one…but not to me.
-Join me…
It just flows so well, and the specific details, whether true or not, anchor it in reality, making his argument to Rey all the more persuasive. It almost convinced me at first, and made me wonder whether she would (or should) take his hand.
As to whether it’s true or not, I think even before TROS, I heard arguments that this story could be falsely planted by Snoke as part of his mind-linking, as one of his efforts to turn Rey. If this argument worked before TROS, I feel like it would still apply after.
I love this moment. It’s Luke’s last line of the movie, the delivery is perfect, and it really caps off the climax of The Last Jedi. While it may be hinting at something that never came to be, it could just as easily be his way of showing up Kylo a little bit. At worst, it’s an unfortunate but minor discontinuity, similar to “There is another…” from ESB. (That line was never really paid off when they changed it to refer to Leia, other than Vader using it to taunt Luke.) Regardless, I don’t think I’d ever be able to watch TLJ without “See ya around, kid.” It’s just too good!
I appreciate the back and forth on this topic, and idir_hh does a good job articulating his/her point, but I agree with the others. Subtlety works better for me here, as Palpatine is only behind the scenes at this point. Bringing him too much to the fore in TFA and TLJ would likely damage those films by distracting from their main stories. The clues should be there to debate, but, in my opinion, it’s important to hold off on any significant reveal until the plot of TLJ is resolved.
It would be interesting to see a radical edit of the sequel trilogy that plays up Palpatine from the start. As others have said, though, this project is only a slightly less conservative edit of Hal’s TLJ:Legendary. I really just wanted to remove two or three things that took me out of the movie every time I watched it, and it grew a little from there.
I updated the radio wave sounds added to the Force Skypes, and toned them way down. I tried to place them more carefully, and in ways that can be interpreted as Palpatine creating a force connection, most noticeably when Kylo-Ren is in the hangar (per NeverarGreat’s suggestions).
Here’s the full updated list of changes. My plan is to get the sound mixing going soon and have the updates ready in the next month or so.
V3 PALPATINE TEASES
PW for all: fanedit
Dark Side Cave 1st Appearance Sith Whispers (V1)
Description: added Sith whispers as the cave first calls to Rey (note: I did try to add a reverb of Palpatine actually saying “Rey” from “I’m afraid the deflector shield…” as was suggested but it just didn’t work.)
Dark Side Cave Sith Whispers and Hood (V4)
Description: Added Sith whispers and Palpatine’s hood appears in the reflection just before Rey’s face appears.
Flashback Palpatine Laugh (by HAL 9000 and TiMartyn)
Description: Added Palpatine laugh to the last Luke/Kylo flashback. Thanks to Hal 9000 for providing the audio.
Palpatine Contact - Option E
Description: When Kylo is in the radio room of the rebel base on Crait, he has an unexpected contact from Palpatine, a voice saying “Find me”. Option E has one reused shot, that is cropped and retimed.
Snoke Sith Death - Subtle
Description: Snoke’s eyes flash red/yellow as he’s stabbed by the lightsaber, and then a puff of blue “Palpatine essence“ releases after his body splits in half.
Force Skype Sounds (V2)
Description: Added some of the Palpatine Contact sounds to other Force Skype moments. V2 is signicantly toned down and used in more precisely-chosen moments.
V3 NON-PALPATINE CHANGES
Ok, looks like there’s good support for keeping the slomo shot. IA, you’re welcome to play with the shot, but as I said, I never really had a problem with it, so I’m fine with it as-is.
For the Force Skype sound effects, I think I will remove most of them, and keep 2-3 that I felt worked the best. I like having some hint of them early but nothing on the nose or distracting. Thanks for your help, everybody!
That’s 4-3 for keeping the shot! (a page back, stevepaynter expressed his preference for removing the shot, so I added it to the vote total).
Jar Jar Bricks said:
I can still remember seeing the movie for the first time and gasping when he does that.
Yeah, this is the kind of thing I worry about. If I watch this a year down the road will I miss that little moment? This is always the risk when making changes, of course, but that’s why I try to avoid changes to the theatrical version that I’m ambivalent about.
In any case, this is an interesting little poll. It’s now 3-3!
Edit: Actually, it’s 3-2 for keeping the slomo shot. I counted DZ-330 twice!
RL, yeah I see your point. Maybe I’ll just do it once or twice instead of making it something that’s always there.
There is a force bond sound already in the Palpatine contact scene (when Kylo looks up). I think that’s enough (I do think it’s the same sound as the other force connection moments but I’ll double check).
For removing the Matrix slomo, I think I count two for removing, and two against.
Nev, here’s a compilation of added sounds to the force Skype call to tease the Palpatine Contact:
Force Skype Sounds
pw: fanedit
To make it easier, the description has all of the timecodes of the added sounds. I ended up adding more than I thought I would! I could maybe dial it back, but I think they generally work and are subtle.
So I think we’ll have V2 and V3 as the options! Not sure how long this will take, but I guess I would aim to for the next month or so (work is getting busy, and the surround mixing is a bit tricky).
Any other thoughts on the Matrix-style slomo? It sounds like people might be leaning toward its removal.
I think you should keep V2 up, as a “purist” cut of Rekindled. If someone wants to remove the radio scene from V3, they can do it themselves.
Yes, this is the direction I am leaning too!
Any thought on removing rhe Matrix shot from the Luke fight? Would love to see that removed too!
I’m leaning against this change, but if this is something most would like to see I’m happy to implement it. It’s a small change; I just generally try not to make changes that, for me, aren’t issues I have with the film.
Are you still considering adding some subtle audio malfunction sounds to Kylo/Rey’s previous Force skypes to set up the final radio contact?
Yes, I think I will still do this when I mix the other spoons FX. I’m thinking just tease these sounds for a moment at the beginning of each call (not throughout the entirety of the call). Just something so it’s there, but not call too much attention to it or distract from the scene.
Hello! Here’s a collected list of all of the considered changes for V3:
V3 PALPATINE TEASES
PW for all: fanedit
Dark Side Cave 1st Appearance Sith Whispers (V1)
Description: added Sith whispers as the cave first calls to Rey (note: I did try to add a reverb of Palpatine actually saying “Rey” from “I’m afraid the deflector shield…” as was suggested but it just didn’t work.)
Dark Side Cave Sith Whispers and Hood (V4)
Description: Added Sith whispers and Palpatine’s hood appears in the reflection just before Rey’s face appears.
Flashback Palpatine Laugh (by HAL 9000 and TiMartyn)
Description: Added Palpatine laugh to the last Luke/Kylo flashback. Thanks to Hal 9000 for providing the audio.
Palpatine Contact - Option E
Description: When Kylo is in the radio room of the rebel base on Crait, he has an unexpected contact from Palpatine, a voice saying “Find me”. Option E has one reused shot, that is cropped and retimed.
Snoke Sith Death - Subtle
Description: Snoke’s eyes flash red/yellow as he’s stabbed by the lightsaber, and then a puff of blue “Palpatine essence“ releases after his body splits in half.
Force Skype Sounds
Description: Added some of the Palpatine Contact sounds to other Force Skype moments.
V3 NON-PALPATINE CHANGES
I am considering keeping two versions available:
IA suggests a V3 but without the radio scene at the end. I’m hesitant to do this, because without the radio scene, these tweaks really don’t address my main goal for V3, which was to adequately tease Palpatine so that TROS doesn’t come so out of left field (no matter what version of TROS you watch). The radio scene is the moment that (theoretically in my head!) would have gotten me excited/curious for Episode IX.
I also cannot host three versions. Having said that, would anyone else prefer the V3 changes without just the radio scene (a V3 Lite)? It seems cleaner to me just go with/without the Palpatine teases (V2 or V3), but I’m open to hosting V3 Lite instead of V2.
Thank you all for your helpful feedback!
The broadcast itself is a bit too much and out of place to use here I think. Interesting idea to add “At last” though! It actually is already in there, but very muffled. The first piece of the radio that comes through (what makes Kylo look up) is the “At last” from the beginning of the Fortnite broadcast. I liked having a nod to the broadcast that was still vague, but I could make it a bit clearer if we think that’s important to hear.
Here’s a new pass of 4E. For this version, I tweaked the light rays and added some camera shake so the shots of the radio didn’t feel so static.
Palpatine Contact - Option 4E
pw: fanedit
Lifeincontext, pm sent!
Just updated the Finn Wakes sequence with a quieter “Finn” and removed the force call sound! Same link:
Finn Wakes
https://vimeo.com/385284341
pw: fanedit
Sheepish said:
He isn’t afraid she would strike him down. He’s afraid that she wants to, and he’s failed yet another who wanted his help.
That is perfectly said, totally agree!
Here’s the only non-Palpatine related tweak I’m considering, thanks to the idea from Rogue Leader.
Finn Wakes
https://vimeo.com/385284341
pw: fanedit
I had piece together Rey whispering “Finn”, because all of times she says his name were in the wrong tone! At the end of TFA when she’s speaking to him while he’s unconscious, she whispers “friend” and “again”, which is where this came from.
I just updated the subtle version of the Snoke eyes (same link) to make it an even faster flash of red.
EddieDean said:
we’re creating alternative versions as if they’re the ones that aired in the cinema, for the first-time viewer. We need to be sure these changes are noticed, not just things we can comfortably know are there.
I would say that is the goal for these V3 edits as a whole, but not for this particular moment. Likely in the next few days, I will repost links to all of the collective changes, and I think you’ll find the “Palpatine Contact” edit on the previous pages of this thread serves as a much stronger hint/reveal late in the film. The idea is to pepper in these little details that people may or may not see, and then at the end to clearly hint at something that has people talking and anticipating episode IX.
Jackpumpkinhead said:
IMHO I would say it would be better for the silhouette of her parents to merge into Palpatine and hold in front of her until the fog lifts to reveal Rey just standing there. So kind of a mix of the first and Second version.
I had that thought too at one point but I don’t know if the footage I have of Palpatine will work through that whole moment. I could try it, but I kind of like the subtle way the hood appears as the hand is going up. It feels creepier and subtler, I think. Still, a good idea and something to consider!
When Snoke’s torso falls…that’s not blue smoke!?? It’s a ghostly silhouette of cloaked Palpatine perfectly scaled to where Snoke was sat?
Haha! No it was not intentional, but I see it now! I love those happy accidents. It’s actually just a smoke charge that I distorted a bit. I can try a version where it leaves the screen, but honestly I’m happy with the way it looks now, especially now that I see the hood.
RogueLeader said:
people would’ve still speculated for two years about what it meant. Then when the Palpatine reveal happens people would feel like it was obvious in retrospect, which I think is the goal, isn’t it?
This is the goal!
Axios, for the fight with the praetorian guards, I can see where the seams of the choreography are showing, and the music is kind of understated, but I’m still ok with it as-is. To me, it’s just a fun action scene after the emotional catharsis of the climax. I’ve seen the versions with “Duel of the Fates” the way Ortega cut it, and while it works, the music actually seems like overkill to me, making the scene seem more important than it really is. Unlike other lightsaber battles (such as Luke vs. Vader), there’s no opportunity to reveal character here. I’m not invested in the guards, so there’s not a lot of tension; it’s just more of a release for Rey and Kylo-Ren.
The link is fixed now, my mistake!
smpearce1981, those are good thoughts to consider, thank you!
Alternatively you could try transitioning to the Sith eyes when he looks up from the light saber as it penetrates his body
Hey I gave this a try, and it’s interesting (very horror movie like), but I think I the other ways better:
Snoke Sith Death - Eyes turn when Lifting Head
Reposting the other two to consolidate:
Snoke Sith Death Strong
pw for all: fanedit
Ok, just updated the subtle version again (same link above)!
jarbear, it’s updated. The way you can tell is the previous version flashed a frame of Kylo at the very beginning. It’s not a very big change, though. Think it should be faster still?