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poita

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11-Sep-2012
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3-Jul-2025
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Post
#759677
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

SilverWook (how did I just notice now that your initials are SW??), there is definitely a lot that can and will be done to restore the colour from your print.

The idea of popping a B&W encode out quickly is that it will let people look at the differences in the original 1971 release vs other releases, and the B&W is easier on the eye than the red.

I won't have time to do a colour recovery on it for a couple of months, but it looks great in B&W, and anyone that wants to play with the colour in the meantime is more than welcome to.

Post
#759422
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

SilverWook said:

Ditto. I've never heard THEX except as said by LUH. Her pronunciation might be a term of affection?

 I was just interested, I heard an interview where George Lucas' mother pronounces the movie as THEX throughout it, so I was wondering if that was how George referred to it at 'home'.

It got me thinking about how the general public pronounced it.

I remember the Australian band INXS (In Excess) being introduced as 'inks' on stage once.

Post
#759411
Topic
my ESB Grindhouse Fan Colour Correction (Released)
Time

Hiya fmalover,

If you want to send me some clips, I will watch them side by side with the film and check them out for you.

Make sure you send them that you include any LUTs, and/or let me know what colourspace you are working in etc. so that I can view them properly.

Trying to compare colours from jpegs in forum posts is impossible, they will look different on any given computer.

Post
#759206
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

Yes, it helps if the 'fan' also happens to come from the industry, hence my use of single quotes around the term.

For example I work almost purely in log, and in the DCI-P3 colourspace as I want to keep the option of going back out to film and DCP at the forefront of my work,

I know Mike also works in processes designed to be able to go straight out to any current distribution format, whether it be cinema or home video.

Interestingly though, I believe it also helps if you are not just from the restoration industry, a background in FX, lens knowledge, film processing, on-set experience etc. all helps you to make an informed choice when evaluating a film source, and working out just why it is how it is, and how it 'should' be.

It is an area where being a bit of a journeyman can be more useful at times than being a narrow specialist. I don't know about Mike, but I am often blown away by the feedback from guys on the forum, that pick up the strangest little details or make suggestions that end up being quite useful.

Anyway, enough of my derailing rantings, I need to go earn some money to buy more HDDs :)

Post
#759194
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

What I kind of find surprising is that people are surprised that a 'fan' can do a better job of restoration than a company with (seemingly) endless resources.

The truth is that a fan with the right background and training would often be capable of doing a 'better' or to be more accurate, a more 'genuine' job when restoring a film.

The tools that the pros use are available or can be programmed, film scanning, though hideously expensive (I just got a quote of USD$25,000 for two hours of 35mm to be scanned) is available.

The main differences between a Disney restoration and a fan restoration are mostly twofold.

1) Familiarity with the source. A Disney employee may have a deep understanding of the film, or a passing interest. They may have been alive and immersed in film in the 1970s or they may not have been born in the 1970s. They may have access to original costumes and models, or may have never seen them.

The 'fan' might be old enough to have experienced the 70s films and aesthetic at the time of release (I sadly am more than old enough), have spent more hours than is sane watching the films *on film* and spent 1000s hours pouring over models, costumes and reference materials. They can remember the experience in the cinema, the way the audience gasped and cheered and stood and applauded. Where they laughed and where the cinema was dead silent with anticipation. They have viewed every damn frame of the film countless times, and sometimes are surprised to realise that there is no audio, as they have been hearing it even when playing back the sequences in silence. They know every character, every blink, every nuance of the film. This makes a difference. They know just how important to the story that little flash of colour on the stormtrooper's costume is. They know that the snaking cable at the corner of shot should be hidden in shadow, and that the highlights should be singing in Carrie's eyes.  They know the film, on a level that is hard to understand if you haven't been living in its frames for the last decade or so. You won't make the mistake of balancing out the blue-green of the Death Star's walls to a neutral grey.
It isn't just another cleanup job that you have been assigned to for the next two months.

2) Time.
Stupidly large amounts of soul eating time.
The fan has the ability to spend a day, a week, a month, two months on a 10 second sequence. And then revisit it again later when a new technique gets invented for a different sequence that may give a better result on an old one. You get to agonise over whether the smearing on the stars in the background in this shot is lens coma (leave it in) or channel misalignment (take it out). You get to experiment with techniques like image stacking, deconvolution, light diffraction remodelling and other tools that come from diverse image processing fields, but aren't in the standard 'film repair' product ranges.
Also time to track down people and references and write programs and source equipment etc. etc.

None of this time is really available to a company, no matter how much they love the film. It just isn't economically viable, and has limited usefulness to the general movie buying public. How many customers will really care that the starfield is misaligned by half a pixel, or that the colour of the wires inside Threepio's torso are not consistent from shot to shot?
It just isn't worth it, even to a company like Criterion to spend years on this stuff.

So in short, with the right background, horrible amounts of time, a good skillset, a bit of luck, and flushing most your spare money down the toilet, you can surpass some of the best restorations out there, you just have to give up a large chunk of your income and spare time to it, know what you are doing, know what you don't know, learn, improve and work damn hard.

And have a bit of luck :)

Post
#758778
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

mverta said:

The first time I ever visited the Archives and saw the condition that Luke's Red 5 X-Wing model was in - a condition mirrored by no shortage of artifacts there - my heart broke.  And I realized that nobody in any official capacity has the kind of reverence for this film that its most dedicated fans do.  I did not enter in Legacy lightly.  It's too late for Red 5; it's not too late for Star Wars.

R53

R52

R51

 Yeah, I was out there in 1996, and have to agree, sadly. It was amazing how much stuff had been kept, but a lot of it was in a really terrible state, which is a genuine tragedy.

Post
#755843
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

It's all semantics at the end of the day, everyone doing this stuff has different aims and different parameters. I haven't seen a screening yet where I can't see the mattes, so I am personally leaving them in on the work I am doing. For a version that I want to sit down and watch and enjoy, they are being corrected out. On another film I am working on the wires holding a model are just barely visible, I could correct them out just with colour controls, but I decided to leave them in. It really does come down to personal preference. We have no client, so can do whatever pleases us for once in our lives!

[For my own enjoyment I am making a version that is how I 'remember' the films, (i.e. better than they look on the prints) with many of the shitty comps, mattes and glitches removed, but that is a different project altogether]

Just out of interest, where the mattes sit over the top of lighter items and are still visible, are you correcting those out as well?

I've done it both ways, just wondering which way you are going with those?

Post
#755811
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

For a reconstruction, I would agree, for a preservation, I would leave them in at a low level.

There is no doubt that they would not have wanted them to show, but they are pretty clear on every print I have seen, and were documented at the time, so they are an artifact of the film making process circa 1977, just like bad comps, frame jumps, coma on the stars and other issues.

For a version I would want to sit down and watch today, I'd rather them gone, but for a preservation master, I would be leaving them in.

Decisions like this are what make preservation and restoration a tricky beast.

Post
#755721
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

mverta said:

I've seen that, too, but to that point, when I screened a few prints on a vintage projector, with vintage bulb and screen, which apparently had lower reflectance by default, they weren't visible.  It's been my assumption since then that improvements in screen reflectivity and/or increased luminance output was the culprit, but this doesn't explain your anecdote from "back in the day."  One thing is for sure which is that during the development of the shots, whatever they were screening the tests on was not exhibiting the artifact or they'd have compensated.

Where does that leave us? Certainly I have been setting my garbage-matte-black-point nice and low in the P3 curve...!

 

 I was watching it on some big-arse 1949 carbon arc jobbies, on a somewhat too large screen, increased luminance and reflectivity certainly aren't features of that setup. I've found multiple mentions of the 'force fields' on the tie fighters, I think the mattes were always visible, but not many people would notice them, the effects were so far ahead of anything else out there at the time, and so exciting, that I don't think people would have noticed en-masse, at least not the first few dozen times they saw it :)

Post
#755712
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

The garbage mattes certainly weren't as visible in the cinema as on the home releases, but I watched a 77 print in the cinema just recently, and the tie fighter mattes in particular are clearly visible on screen.

I dug out a review a few months back from 1978 where the reviewer mentioned the 'green shields' around the tie fighters, so it seems some people back in the day thought it was an intentional special effect.

I have a memory of seeing them at the time, but memory is horribly unreliable, so it could be later conditioning, but they are certainly there when watching in the screening room.

Post
#752294
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

mverta said:

Certainly in theory, especially because -1's primary (?) print is/was the same Kodak LPP I first had scanned years ago in 4K.  I almost never use anything from it, but if you're really dedicated, there's quite a lot of stuff in there.

They do not have my 4k scans of the LPP.  They scanned it themselves on a home scanner at 2k, with plans to do it at 4K.  As to the quality of the scans, I can say this: there's a reason the Scanity costs what it does.  I also know -1 got parts of some of my Tech IB scans from a print.  I also sent them part of a scene they were missing. 

I helped Harmy with reel-by-reel reference images of a Tech. and other guidance along the way.  I do what I can, when I can. Despite the absolutely insane, delusional, narcissistic arrogance of people who claim to be "saving Star Wars," (we're not, we're keeping it on life support at BEST), I still like to think we're all in this together.

  I've had some of the -1 LPP print scanned at 4K on a Lasergraphics Director, which does a noticeably better job on prints that the Scanity does. I agree that there is indeed 'quite a lot of stuff in there'.
Definitely a worthwhile source, even though it is pretty beat up in places. (I do not have the -1 print currently, just organised a section to be scanned, I am not a part of the -1 team, and don't foresee utilising their print in the future, just for the record)

I also agree that having a great source (of which there are not many) does not a restoration make. I have multiple IB prints here in Oz, and restoration is a s-l-o-w and tedious business. It is good having the prints on hand and a screening room to be able to keep going back to the actual prints to look at colour and grain and the projected image, and not relying on the scans themselves.

We all do this for our own reasons, mine are different to Mike's and different to the -1 teams, and probably different to Harmy's and Adywan's and everyone else's motivations. But we all love this stupid film, and spend insane amounts of time and money on it. I sometimes have no idea why, but then I remember sitting in that cinema in 1977 and just being removed from this world for 2 hours, and it all makes sense to me again, and I go back to my control surface and get on with things.