poita

I agree with Rob on this one.
Everyone has had a chance to give their perspectives, the individual accounts are not banned and each team member is free to say whatever they want on the matter. No one is being stifled and no individual has been banned, so it is hard to say anyone is treated unfairly, as anyone is free to have their say. If you choose not to have your say, then that is your choice, it isn’t ‘unfair’, it is just a choice.

All team accounts are banned, and that is separate to this issue anyway.
People can make up their own minds as to what is good form and what is not, people’s opinions will fall all along the spectrum from one side to the other, to not really caring. I think it has been pretty much talked out.

There are already other Tech IB restorations in progress, Rob has said that he still has access to the print, and IMHO, a rescan now is a good idea anyway, and it sounds like Rob or others can get that happening, and regardless, other Techs have been scanned and are being worked on, so nothing is really lost.

Rob seems ready to move on, I think starting new threads for any projects is a great idea anyway, the old ones are too damn long to dig through, and they will still be there for any history.

In a way, all of this is good, I think we will all be encouraged to be more open with each other, and at the very least, have the good form to check in with anyone who may have been involved if offered a print or a scan and check that everyone is really okay with it being used.

You can debate the legalities and ‘evidence’ till the end of time, but in the end, it all boils down to being decent with each other, and if in any doubt, ask.

My personal feeling is that there is no animosity between Mike and Rob, who are the only people weighing in on this with what happened anyway, so let’s shake hands and move on.

There is a lot of work to be done, and more resources available than any of us have the time to get through, nothing has been lost, there is plenty to do, both on Star Wars and many other titles that have not had decent restorations.

Let’s get back to work, there is so much yet to do.

I would be very interested in a frame distribution model being setup for restoration.
It would have its problems, but would be a useful tool.
I’m happy to donate say 30 seconds of footage to be restored as a test, PM me as I am leaving the forum shortly, and can give you an email contact.
I really think the idea has merit, and could be useful in a multitude of ways, plus it could be a fun community project, people could use whatever tools they have to clean up their frame, and the results would illustrate a bunch of things about restoration that I would love to explore with the community.
Part of the problem is evident in the frame you cleaned up, (which you did a pretty nice job on BTW).
For instance, take a look here:

You can see the duplicated area down a bit and to the right of Luke’s snozz, on the next frame that duplicated section will look different, so that detail will pop in and out of existence, resulting in the background ‘chattering’.
But, there are ways around this kind of thing, and I think it would be a useful experiment, and a way to get the entire community involved.

So my vote is Make It So!

CatBus said:

poita said:

he contacted me, we chatted like grown-ups and we sorted it out, and got on with working.

That’s not how the Internet is supposed to work.

😄

Which is part of the reason I am going off forums for a while.

Yes, if you call trying to find someone a freakout 😃

AFAIK, #3 is still freaked out, to use the terminology.

Anyway, I am not going to write any more here, plenty has been said already.
I would like to think we can all go back to getting on with film restoration and other projects. If the -1 team have access to the print, then maybe they will scan it and continue working on it, or will work on their other projects.

I will be just getting on with mine.

Williarob said:

I stand corrected, it wasn’t a frame or a file posted by Poita that set Mike hunting for him, it was a file name. Here is the original Skype Chat:

[6/14/2014 8:10:37 PM] Mike Verta: Who is David (poita?)
[6/14/2014 8:11:03 PM] Mike Verta: Do you know?
[6/14/2014 8:14:56 PM] Mike Verta: might go by the name poitapoita
[6/14/2014 8:15:02 PM] Mike Verta: on forums, etc.
[6/14/2014 8:16:47 PM] Mike Verta: Found him on OT.com
[6/14/2014 8:17:08 PM] williarob: All I know is that he is very sick, most of the time.
[6/14/2014 8:17:22 PM] williarob: And he lives in Australia
[6/14/2014 8:17:49 PM] Mike Verta: By the most random of coincindences, I saw him asking for help with some DPX files on a forum for reading audio from optical scans of film.
[6/14/2014 8:18:14 PM] Mike Verta: He posted the names of his test frames, and they were my naming convention for one of my scans.
[6/14/2014 8:18:50 PM] williarob: He has his own scanning machine that can make IR scans, bought it on ebay
[6/14/2014 8:19:13 PM] Mike Verta: Yes, but this was a very specific naming convention that couldn’t have happened by coincidence
[6/14/2014 8:20:26 PM] williarob: weird. I don’t have any of your scans, apart from the Greedo sequence, and I don’t know how anyone else could have it. And as I say, he’s in Australia
[6/14/2014 8:20:56 PM] Mike Verta: I know how he could have it, I’m just stunned by the irresponsibility of the person who’s done it.
[6/14/2014 8:24:05 PM] Mike Verta: What’s weird is half of his posts are signed with -Peter
[6/14/2014 8:24:56 PM] williarob: I only know him as Poita. Never spoken to him directly.
[6/14/2014 8:25:25 PM] Mike Verta: Hmmm… unfortunate, however it’s gone down.
[6/14/2014 8:25:31 PM] Mike Verta: People suck.
…

So once again, Poita I apologize - I misremembered the conversation. But anyway, the point is that THIS is where Mike’s story begins. Since only 2 or three people could have sent out those files, it was this incident that tipped Mike off to the fact that the scans were now in the wild… Also note that at this point in time, I had no idea we were about to receive a copy too.

Thank you.

I went back and checked everything to be sure.
I sorted this out with Mike not long after, I had a sample of files that just had the optical audio from some frames, and was asked if the audio could be recovered. and they wouldn’t load into the AEO software, and I suspected it was the convoluted filename, so I contacted the AEO developers. They posted the Q&A on their boards, including the filename, and I immediately contacted them and said that they should not put actual filenames on their boards as you never know if they might constitute information of some kind, and they changed it to the same pattern, with different lettering.

No actual files were ever transferred to anyone else, and no images were ever posted. Even if somehow they could have been (which they didn’t), they would have been of a vertical waveform, as there was no image apart from that in them to be seen.

Mike may well have flipped out, he may have said horrible things about me in private, or he may have loved it, I don’t know, and don’t think it matters, he contacted me, we chatted like grown-ups and we sorted it out, and got on with working.

Williarob said:

poita said:

Williarob said:

poita said:

I never posted a frame from that scan on OT.COM, or its filename.
If you can point to the post, please do.

well maybe Mike just believed you did, I never saw it, it’s just what he told me.

Well please refrain from tarring people with a brush from what you think someone may have thought.

Apologies. But are you suggesting that not everything Mike Verta says is true? (gasp!)

I am saying what you posted about me in the forum is not true.

Williarob said:

poita said:

I never posted a frame from that scan on OT.COM, or its filename.
If you can point to the post, please do.

well maybe Mike just believed you did, I never saw it, it’s just what he told me.

Well please refrain from tarring people with a brush from what you think someone may have thought.

Williarob said:
We were going to get Mike’s scan as well

So you planning to get Mike’s print as well and use that, it is only a bit of bad luck that stopped it happening, not ethics?

I never posted a frame from that scan on OT.COM, or its filename.
If you can point to the post, please do.

A similar filename was sent to an audio analysis company, as part of a query as to why their software did not process sequential filenames with a particular name layout, and did not contain the owners initials.
There was never an image posted anywhere, and the filename had no reference to what the image content would have been. There was absolutely no way anyone could have known what the file may have contained, and the file itself was never posted.
I repeat, the files were not posted, images were not posted.

Again, Williarob, if you can back up this claim by linking to an actual post, not someone elses emails or comments, please do.

RedBro said:

Lasz said:
As far as I understand (from what I’ve read on the forum), someone paid (I assume quite a fair amount of money, since scanning prints isn’t cheap) to have that print scanned. And then someone else gave those scans away, without that person’s (the guy who had it scanned) permission.

That’s not proper conduct. legal or not.

But how is that a problem unless the person who paid the money was expecting to make that money back by (very illegally) selling his scans of his print? In what world was this person going to get that money back? Unless said person was aiming to be reimbursed by Disney for providing assistance with some theoretical future release, the whole “but he/she spent money!” argument makes no sense to me.

Imagine you took years to find that print, and paid a small fortune for it.
Someone comes along and asks to scan that print for preservation, you understandably are worried, what if the print gets lost, damaged, confiscated? What if after the print is scanned, they trace it back to you and prosecute you and confiscate your library of prints worth 10s or even 100s of thousands of dollars?
You might be old enough to remember when the FBI raided the Hollywood home of Roddy McDowall and seized the actor’s large collection of films, you are quite nervous about possible repercussions.

So the restorationist courts you for months, and offers solid assurances that the scan done will not be released, that there would be no way to trace it back to them, that it is part of a bigger mission to get the originals restored fully. That they will pay the extremely expensive costs to get it all done. You relucatantly agree, hoping it won’t come back to bite you on the arse.

Now, if you see images from your print suddenly appear online, from a group giving interviews and releasing torrents of movies, and saying they are going to use the scan of your print and put it out there, you are going to be pissed and extremely worried.

Also, on the flipside, if you paid tens of thousands of dollars to scan something, for your own use that you made assurances would never be used for anything else, and someone effectively took that time and money you spent making it happen, and just used it for their own thing, that could potentially derail your own work and put the guy that trusted you in the shit, well, I reckon most people would also be pretty pissed in that situation.

Williarob said:

Lasz said:

Williarob said:

Lasz said:

Williarob said:

Poita’s scan of the LPP.

a scan of the whole movie or just for replacement parts?

The whole movie.

wow.

and are there plans for creating a release from that scan or will it just be used for replacement parts?

That’s a good question and the answer really depends on how much better the scan is, and how easy it is to swap sources. The new scan should be cleaner, sharper and smear free but it will still have the same color issues and much of the same physical damage. In theory, it may be possible to swap out the frames from the old print with those of the new and apply the same cleanup, but of course in the real world things are never that easy… I would like to replace as much of the source material as I can because I think that will result in the best quality final product, but not if it will take another three years to complete.

Don’t worry though, I will keep you posted every step of the way. If we have learned anything from this debacle, I think we learned that having a secretive “team” account that only makes infrequent, ambiguous and often nonsensical statements is bad. That badness leads to anger, and anger leads to hate, and hate leads us… well, to where we are now really with the team’s greatest achievement being over shadowed by allegations of misconduct.

So in an effort to avoid this sort of thing happening again I shall try to be as transparent as possible. To that end, I can tell you that Poita’s scan should be shipping sometime this week. When it arrives I’ll post some comparisons. I don’t anticipate it being the kind of night and day difference there is between the LPP and the Tech, but it should be better than what we have.

I have to get a new motherboard first, so it won’t be shipping this week, it will be next month at the earliet.

Thanks for the kind words everyone, I am rebuilding my workstation, and will continue my work, I just won’t be on the forums any more, and will be focusing on one thing at a time.
None of the scans or WIP will go to waste, and much of it will be helping other projects that are already in progress with others, both here and outside the forums, it will all be put to good use I assure you 😃

I have a couple of technical posts to finish off in the tech forums, and then it will be radio silence. Once any of the projects are complete, you will hear about them I am sure.

Thanks again to all at OT and elsewhere.

I am going to be withdrawing from the forums here, the equipment destruction has given me reason to pause, and to be honest, the current media noise re Star Wars and fan restoration has me concerned as well.
My work has always been about preservation, both helping people with resources and technique to learn how to do it themselves, and to undertake my own preservation projects to help ensure the films I love are not lost forever. I have no interest in distributing restorations, my only goal is preservation of films that have not already been preserved.

I have thought a lot about my resources, and have decided not to make any scans I have done myself available to anyone that is not working directly in the preservation field, but feel free to contact me if you have an educational or study use, or anything else that would fall under fair usage laws. Harmy has access to the same resources that I do, and I am sure he will continue to do great work with them.

I will continue my own preservation work and rebuild my gear, and will probably setup a simple preservation website or join an existing one soon, so I am not becoming a hermit or anything, but won’t be spnding as much time online.

A big thanks to everyone on the OT forums, I have had a great time and learned so much from everyone here, and to everyone that helped me out with HDDs and resources, you will not be forgotten, I’ll keep you all in the loop as my work progresses.

This wasn’t an easy decision, I do spend an inordinate amount of time in these forums, but life has also been getting increasingly difficult, my main employer hit hard times and has let most staff go, including me, and as many of you know, one of my four daughters is physically and mentally disabled, and as she hits puberty, she has become far more difficult to look after, imagine someone who is mentally an 18 month old, that is 5 foot tall, and incredibly strong, that is simultaneously going through the both the tantrum phase of ‘the terrible twos’ and the throws of hormones and mood swings of a teenager, coupled with random violent outbursts, and you can see how it puts a lot of stress on the family, especially when you also have a three year old daughter, safety is also a real concern.

So I have decided that I probably should spend more time on family stuff, and less time online, so this seems as good a time as any to start doing exactly that.

Thanks again to everyone here that has enriched my knowledge and life in so many ways, it has been a joy and priveledge to call you my friends, even though I never met a single one of you in the real world 😃

Cheers, and goodbye

-Peter

I agree, this level of publicity doesn’t feel like a good thing. Preservation and press don’t necessarily go well together.

All the information re the SS edition is in the team-1 thread, I was staying somewhat on topic here pointing out that the Tech prints are the only fade-free version of the film, and that the green bias is easily adjusted for, and that the SS is not useful as a colour reference.

joefavs said:

I can’t claim to have seen any actual prints myself (except the 97 SE, but A. That’s irrelevant beyond the fact that it was supposedly based on the technicolor, and B. I was seven years old and not exactly paying attention to this kind of thing yet) but everything I’ve seen here that tries to approximate the technicolor looks too green to me. Particularly the Death Star interior stuff. If the Silver Screen version is accurate to the Eastman, then that looks closer to the platonic ideal of Star Wars I have in my head. Still a little dull on Tatooine, though. A happy medium would be spectacular.

The Silver Screen version is not at all accurate to the Eastman, the colour is all over the place in many scenes, the light leak and lack of low light detail has shifted the colours in the shadow/darker areas are a bit of a mess. The Eastman prints are all faded heavily now, so it is not possible to know any more precisely what they looked like, but you can still work out the colour shif and tone, and the SS doesn’t stick to it with any consistency.

The IB Techs are all off towards green, but it is easily adjusted globally to counteract that push, and that will land you with the closest thing to ‘reference’ colour that you will get.

If you want to, then you can run it all from your computer and get excellent sound, mapped fully to your room by using a miniDSP setup. You can setup fully active crossovers and fully EQ the sub.
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/subwoofer-integration-with-minidsp
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/digital-crossover-basics
https://www.minidsp.com/
You get astoundingly good audio, tailored to your room precisely, for much less than ‘high end’ systems that don’t let you tailor the sound.

I’m so glad to see this, I was working on it as well before everything evaporated.
Yes, this print, and a lot of the other LPPs of Jedi had a very blue cast to much of the Endor scenes, and was painfully dark in the Jabba scenes, so it is a lot of work to colour correct.

A lot of people would have had a sub-par theatrical experience with Jedi at the time, as LPP prints were pumped out quickly, and wih not a lot of care from what I have seen.

Rask40 said:

Wow. What a treat! For example the insides of Jabba’s palace is full of detail I never knew existed. Thanks Harmy and Poita.

I would like to know more about the scanning process. Where did the film come from? Who scanned it?
Was this scanned with a setup similar to what Team Negative 1 uses or something completely different?
It’s all very interesting.

All that can be said re the scanning is what Harmy has already mentioned, it is done on pretty much the best dedicated film scanner out there, not the camera-pointing-at-a-projector-gate setup that Team-1 used, so yes, it is completely different, and it won’t get any better than this (as far as a raw scan goes) for this particular print. As for file details, the initial scan was 23TB in size, was captured to a 16bpp uncompressed image sequence, with an infrared damage matte in the alpha-channel.

There are some better prints out there, that I would like to run through the same scanner, they are available but time, hard drives and stuff are in the way somewhat.

Harmy did a great job, it would have been a ton of work just to get the colour looking so lovely.

Yeah, I’m not sure of the reason for doing interviews, Lucasfilm know that all of us here on OT exist, and probably who we all are, but I feel like poking the bear isn’t the best idea.

It is an 83 LPP, but we already have plenty of those.

For any Aussies on the forum…
GIO Insurance are a pack of dicks!

I have been fighting with them for the past week, despite the computer equipment being listed with a value, they are disputing it, saying that this is a graphics workstation, not a ‘home computer’ and would have required separate listing and approval. My solicitor does not think that we can make them pay.
So to anyone else with expensive computer gear, notify your insurance company with an itemised list and get it in writing from them that it is explicitly covered, apparently anything less than that and they can weasle out of it.

I already tried swapping the PC boards, they are external and an easy swap-out, but the drives didn’t even spin up so I think it probably fried the motors/head mechanism.

I have sent the drives off for a free assessment at a data recovery company I used to work for, but I’m not holding out a lot of hope. I would love to get the last half year of work back.

Thanks for the suggestion, I am currently deciding whether to take it as a sign from the gods and bow out of the hobby, or start over. I lost so much work.
The reason I had the external RAID plugged in was that I was backing everything up, it feels like a cruel joke that the system would crap its pants during a backup of TBs of work and take out both the original files and the backups at the same time.

I lost a shitload of data, and months of work, but most of the 35mm scans should be okay.

I don’t want copies sent back, I was really only keeping backups as a ‘last resort’ courtesy, I had been severely short on space before this happened. It is just a reminder to people out there to back up their files as I no longer have them.