ImperialFighter said:... although I'm keen to see an eventual better quality, anamorphic release of the Original Trilogy available on BluRay for the masses....
I don't think Blu-ray is anamorphic at all, if I'm not mistaken. Only DVDs come in anamorphic.
TheBoost said:Actually, "Star Wars: Redubbed" might be a WHOLE LOT of FUN. Like that one Woody Alen film whose name eludes me, or "Kung Pow." But to keep it centered, I'd keep a few characters (probably Obi, Aunt Beru, and Leia) as their normal voices, just for contrast. Couple that with Cockney Artoo and subtitled Chewie, this could be extremely silly.
And also, every time a lightsiber ignites, there should be a power chord and a high pitched heavy-metal scream (I'm thinking ManOWar!)
There's a hilarious video on youtube that has all the Darth Vader Scenes from ANH re-dubbed with James Earl Jones' voice from some of his other films, used to AWESOME effect. I believe it was called "Vader Sessions", but I'm not 100% sure on that.
ABC said:oh_riginal said:ABC said:oh_riginal said:ABC said:... Use the Indiana Jones theme for some Han solo's apparitions or heroics !
And use some Blade Runner music for the quieter scenes.
... The deal with Indy's music is that, as it is John Williams music too, it would totally marry the SW music.
So you're saying that adding Blade Runner music is a bad idea, right?
No no !!! It's a very good idea !!! Too much !
J
And the thread is called...?
Nevermind.
ABC said:oh_riginal said:ABC said:... Use the Indiana Jones theme for some Han solo's apparitions or heroics !
And use some Blade Runner music for the quieter scenes.
... The deal with Indy's music is that, as it is John Williams music too, it would totally marry the SW music.
So you're saying that adding Blade Runner music is a bad idea, right?
ABC said:... Use the Indiana Jones theme for some Han solo's apparitions or heroics !
And use some Blade Runner music for the quieter scenes.
OzoneSherrif said:I thought those two guys were using the Blockade Runner's own guns and they were in the cockpit of the ship
Interesting way to look at it. Without official confirmation it is definitely debatable.
doubleofive said:TV's Frink said:oh_riginal said:Dub in Steve Carrel's voice from The Office saying "that's what she said" via comlink during the Death Star raid in ANH, as if he is an unseen off-screen X-Wing pilot, or maybe he is at the rebel base or something.
Best...idea...ever.
Agreed.
That just makes me want to do a mock-up with it now... it's been a while.
Dub in Steve Carrel's voice from The Office saying "that's what she said" via comlink during the Death Star raid in ANH, as if he is an unseen off-screen X-Wing pilot, or maybe he is at the rebel base or something.
Everytime someone says something that would apply, the dialogue could pop up.
Wedge: "Look at the size of that thing!"
Comlink: "That's what she said!"
Red Leader: "Negative, it didn't go in. Just impacted on the surface."
Comlink: "That's what she said!"
Biggs: "Will we be able to pull out in time?"
Comlink: "That's what she said!"
Etc. Etc. Etc.
doubleofive said:oh_riginal said:doubleofive said:Bingowings said:As always please forgive the roughness of this mockup :
Lookin good! I think if we had a matte of just the window, we could have new gunner elements shot and added so its not the same guys with their arms crossed...
Considering that the Imperials are not seen at all from the front, the shot could easily be flipped, to distance it away from being too recognizable as the same footage from ANH. Just a thought, though I don't know how convincing it could look. I suppose it would depend on how long the actual shot lasted. The shorter the better I would assume.
Its not so much it yelling "reused shot!" that I'm afraid of, its the fact that they literally have their arms crossed just watching the ships fly by. It might work in a quick shot however...
The guy on the right doesn't have his arms crossed. In fact, his arms aren't even in the frame. From what we saw in ANH, its easy to see he is the one who actually fires the weapon, while the guy on the left is his superior, and probably yells out a few orders here and there. I don't see anything wrong with the shot if it were to be reused as is. What else is he going to do? Panic and/or be antsy? If the shot were to be used, it would just make him look like a confident military officer, watching as his gunner is successfully destroying rebel ships. It would be a nice way to add more balance to the battle, as there seems to be more TIEs shot down during most of the ROTJ space scenes than rebels.
Besides, if the footage used for what is outside the window contrasts the darkness of the turret room enough, the eyes of the viewer would be drawn to the shooting action, rather to the arms of an officer standing there anyway.
doubleofive said:Bingowings said:As always please forgive the roughness of this mockup :
Lookin good! I think if we had a matte of just the window, we could have new gunner elements shot and added so its not the same guys with their arms crossed...
Considering that the Imperials are not seen at all from the front, the shot could easily be flipped, to distance it away from being too recognizable as the same footage from ANH. Just a thought, though I don't know how convincing it could look. I suppose it would depend on how long the actual shot lasted. The shorter the better I would assume.
Bingowings said:As always please forgive the roughness of this mockup :
I like this idea... similar to my idea for the Falcon's turrets, but it's the Empire version! Even if it were only one quick shot of the Imperials firing and successfully destroying a rebel ship, it would be awesome to see.
Kongerne said:hey, i have been following this thread for a while now, and been thinking about this foto that Cade Skywalker posted a while ago:
now this is just i wild "idear", sort of, depending on if anyone has said it before :P
anyway, would it be posible to rotoscope (or something fancy like that), most of the movie, in a way, so it does take place on courosant, and insted of a battle with the death star, the rebellion would try to seige the capital instead
The reason for this is that the alliance has discovered that the stormtroppers or some other thing tying to the empires defence system on courosant can be turned of, and that is what han and their team are doing, not on endor, but on kamino (now this would require a lot of rotoscoping), and instead of ewoks make the kamino'ens that have joined the battle, by using footage where Han and the others of his team are talking to the kaminoens, but tweeking it a bit, of course there still is the question of why they are wearing camouflage clothing (this would also require someone who is good at effects work), but then again it is almost an impossible task, tell me what you think, and sorry if i got of topic.
I think that is just way too much work to do for the stuff that IS possible, and the majority of it just can't happen. Fan editors can do amazing things, but they're not miracle workers.
corellian77 said:
Forum members' / ady's thoughts on this particular suggestion? I always thought it was a continuity error worthy of fixing (no less so than the gaff moments earlier, fixed by the red R2 unit), but maybe I'm alone in thinking so.
I agree that this is worthy of fixing. R2's appearance could be postponed, or just removed if the shot doesn't last long enough.
TMBTM said:Bingowings said:Trapping the wild creatures of Endor could provide a new interesting weapon for the Ewoks to use (recyling the Wampa subplot for a new version of Jedi).
Personally I'd prefer the Ewoks to have been fighting the Empire but if those traps were for keeping predators at bay, turning those predators against their new enemy would be a nice re-use of dropped concept from ESB.
Maybe just using possible shots from the Ewoks movies were they preparing traps (if it ever exist, don't remember) could be useful somehow?
Just cut the 3PO " oh my god they'll be captured!" scene, and it will look like they planned this (?)
Maybe color correct those "working on trap-A-team-look-a-like" scenes like if they work at night. But again, I don't remember if such scenes exist.
I haven't seen the Ewok movies in over 20 years. While I would usually hate the idea of adding MORE Ewoks, if there happened to be anything that would at least add any improvements, I wouldn't be totally against incorporating footage from those movies, as long as it worked.
G E Predator said:oh_riginal said:G E Predator said:oh_riginal said:Mr Ghostface said:GE Predator:I believe that I can explain that. For 19 years, Luke and Obi-Wan lived on Tattooine, a desert planet with two suns. My theory is that those who are not native to Tattooine may experience some excessive aging over a period of years due to the two sun. And as we know from the prequels, Luke and Obi-Wan were not born on Tattooine.
Works for me. After all, look at Owen and Beru. Those harsh Tatooine desert winds and blazing sunshine "is doing murder to mesa skin".
Other than the joke about Luke's age, I was not referring to age as in appearance. I meant in physical fitness. Dooku certainly looks even older in the PT than Obi Wan does in the OT, yet Dooku is a seriously athletic duelist while Obi Wan looks like... an old man who someone handed a lightsaber and said "see that guy in black? Try to beat him up with this."
Keep in mind I'm not talking about the limits of the actors, or CGI heads on young bodies, but the characters themselves. I don't think two suns would make Obi Wan lose his skills over time.
As for the idea that he was out of practice, I want to make a counterpoint...
Shaolin Monks, no matter how old they get, keep on practicing their martial arts, not because they want to keep up their practice for fun, but because it is their culture, their way of life. I've always assumed the Jedi are supposed to be very similar to this (the use of temples, training from youth, etc.) So, despite having the temple destroyed and being chased off into hiding, wouldn't Obi Wan continue his practices as a Jedi? After all, it is his culture! On a remote planet, in the privacy of his home, why would he not be able to practice Jedi techniques, both physically, spiritually (or with the force, in this matter), and mentally?
But none of this really matters, since ANH has been filmed over 30 years ago, and the Obi Wan duel we got is the only duel we will ever get. Only Ady's re-editing has made him appear faster.
Okay, let's say that Obi-Wan did keep in practice while in solitude on Tattooine. He was also watching over Luke as he had vowed to do after Padme died and Anakin (who was thought to be dead) had been lost to the darkside. Keeping Luke out of trouble all the while keeping out of site of Owen Lars might have been quite a chore for Obi-Wan that he did not keep in practice with his saber techniques as often as he did when he was part of the old Jedi Order.
BTW, I'm not contradicting your statement. I'm just throwing in a possible explanation.
I don't know, that sounds like a bit of a stretch. Surely it shouldn't be hard for a Jedi of Obi Wan's legacy to secretly keep an eye on young Luke?
I just hate the idea because it sounds like something Lucas would actually use, and make a TV show about... "The Whacky Misadventures of Young Luke Skywalker!" also starring Obi Wan, who teaches Luke a valuable lesson at the end of each episode, like buying an apple from the store instead of a candy bar, cause it's nutritious!
Forgive me for saying so, but I don't see anything bad about that. I mean, can any of us really come up with something better?
What would be you're explanation to why Obi-Wan doesn't move as fast in ANH like he did in ROTS?
What I see bad about that is it contradicts Luke's feelings as a character in ANH. He is supposed to be extremely bored with his life, knowing there is so much more out there in the universe, and the only fun he gets out of life pre-ANH is from practicing flying through canyons. Obi Wan was just there to do exactly as he said he would do: keep an eye on him. And I'm sure he did just fine, with little effort.
And to honestly answer your question, I don't have an explanation... that's my problem!
G E Predator said:oh_riginal said:Mr Ghostface said:GE Predator:I believe that I can explain that. For 19 years, Luke and Obi-Wan lived on Tattooine, a desert planet with two suns. My theory is that those who are not native to Tattooine may experience some excessive aging over a period of years due to the two sun. And as we know from the prequels, Luke and Obi-Wan were not born on Tattooine.
Works for me. After all, look at Owen and Beru. Those harsh Tatooine desert winds and blazing sunshine "is doing murder to mesa skin".
Other than the joke about Luke's age, I was not referring to age as in appearance. I meant in physical fitness. Dooku certainly looks even older in the PT than Obi Wan does in the OT, yet Dooku is a seriously athletic duelist while Obi Wan looks like... an old man who someone handed a lightsaber and said "see that guy in black? Try to beat him up with this."
Keep in mind I'm not talking about the limits of the actors, or CGI heads on young bodies, but the characters themselves. I don't think two suns would make Obi Wan lose his skills over time.
As for the idea that he was out of practice, I want to make a counterpoint...
Shaolin Monks, no matter how old they get, keep on practicing their martial arts, not because they want to keep up their practice for fun, but because it is their culture, their way of life. I've always assumed the Jedi are supposed to be very similar to this (the use of temples, training from youth, etc.) So, despite having the temple destroyed and being chased off into hiding, wouldn't Obi Wan continue his practices as a Jedi? After all, it is his culture! On a remote planet, in the privacy of his home, why would he not be able to practice Jedi techniques, both physically, spiritually (or with the force, in this matter), and mentally?
But none of this really matters, since ANH has been filmed over 30 years ago, and the Obi Wan duel we got is the only duel we will ever get. Only Ady's re-editing has made him appear faster.
Okay, let's say that Obi-Wan did keep in practice while in solitude on Tattooine. He was also watching over Luke as he had vowed to do after Padme died and Anakin (who was thought to be dead) had been lost to the darkside. Keeping Luke out of trouble all the while keeping out of site of Owen Lars might have been quite a chore for Obi-Wan that he did not keep in practice with his saber techniques as often as he did when he was part of the old Jedi Order.
BTW, I'm not contradicting your statement. I'm just throwing in a possible explanation.
I don't know, that sounds like a bit of a stretch. Surely it shouldn't be hard for a Jedi of Obi Wan's legacy to secretly keep an eye on young Luke?
I just hate the idea because it sounds like something Lucas would actually use, and make a TV show about... "The Whacky Misadventures of Young Luke Skywalker!" also starring Obi Wan, who teaches Luke a valuable lesson at the end of each episode, like buying an apple from the store instead of a candy bar, cause it's nutritious!
Sevb32 said:Bingowings said:The Ewoks have so many traps already laid it doesn't make sense that they could be there overnight. The only way around that is that they have already been planning to attack the base and have already been killing the Imperials.
The flaw in ROTJ isn't so much the story but the execution of it, it lacks due scale and the focus is in the wrong place.
The Ewoks don't really defeat the Empire, the Empire's own hubris defeats them, they throw all the technology and troops into the battle but refuse to acknowledge the little people.
Also it's much easier to add more troops, Ewoks and model elements into forest footage three decades on than adding more Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford into sets.
I always thought those traps were already set for the giant Goraxes and whatnot, then the Ewoks used them on the Empire. The in-universe explanation.
Within ROTJ itself there is no evidence of this. If this were explained anywhere in the movie, it would at least go a long way to make the traps more believable in being set long before the battle.
Bingowings said:I was aware of those edits through reading all these threads (I knew that DE's was a major influence on Ady) but I hadn't seen them I've seen so many TPM edits that it's kind of burned that film beyond even my endurance levels so I want to keep viewings of OT variations as a special treat.
For those who have seen them are there any alterations unique to those projects which are worthy of reinsertion?
I seem to remember thinking that the insert of the X-Wing hitting the Death Star surface and exploding being easier to register in the DE cut, as opposed to Ady's. But I'd have to dig up the DE cut (if I even have it anymore) and compare the shots.
I can't think of any other changes. There weren't nearly as many as Ady did, and Ady may have already re-done a lot of what DE did originally anyway.... I remember seeing DE's edit for the first time and that one shot of the X-Wing hitting the surface had instantly made it my preferred version! I always hated that shot... but time went on and ANH:R took it many steps further.
Mr Ghostface said:GE Predator:I believe that I can explain that. For 19 years, Luke and Obi-Wan lived on Tattooine, a desert planet with two suns. My theory is that those who are not native to Tattooine may experience some excessive aging over a period of years due to the two sun. And as we know from the prequels, Luke and Obi-Wan were not born on Tattooine.
Works for me. After all, look at Owen and Beru. Those harsh Tatooine desert winds and blazing sunshine "is doing murder to mesa skin".
Other than the joke about Luke's age, I was not referring to age as in appearance. I meant in physical fitness. Dooku certainly looks even older in the PT than Obi Wan does in the OT, yet Dooku is a seriously athletic duelist while Obi Wan looks like... an old man who someone handed a lightsaber and said "see that guy in black? Try to beat him up with this."
Keep in mind I'm not talking about the limits of the actors, or CGI heads on young bodies, but the characters themselves. I don't think two suns would make Obi Wan lose his skills over time.
As for the idea that he was out of practice, I want to make a counterpoint...
Shaolin Monks, no matter how old they get, keep on practicing their martial arts, not because they want to keep up their practice for fun, but because it is their culture, their way of life. I've always assumed the Jedi are supposed to be very similar to this (the use of temples, training from youth, etc.) So, despite having the temple destroyed and being chased off into hiding, wouldn't Obi Wan continue his practices as a Jedi? After all, it is his culture! On a remote planet, in the privacy of his home, why would he not be able to practice Jedi techniques, both physically, spiritually (or with the force, in this matter), and mentally?
But none of this really matters, since ANH has been filmed over 30 years ago, and the Obi Wan duel we got is the only duel we will ever get. Only Ady's re-editing has made him appear faster.
Not to be rude, but this isn't a personal chatroom. Please stay on topic.
Jonno said:oh_riginal said:Since the PT came out, the Obi Wan duel has bothered me even more, not because of the choreography, but because we are to believe that Obi Wan as a character is in his late 50's when he is killed on the Death Star, yet Qui Gon Jinn is supposed to be around 60 years old in TPM, making them close to being the same age when they died, yet Qui Gon's dueling looks much more convincing. To make it even worse (for me anyway), Count Dooku is supposed to be in his 80's during AOTC and ROTS! I won't bother with Yoda, since he's an alien and his species is mysterious.
They're ALL aliens, as far as we're concerned. Granted, human-looking characters in the Star Wars universe are subject to most of the same physical limitations as the rest of us (making all the arguments about unnatural movement perfectly valid), but who's to say the same rules of longevity apply?
Anyway, their 'years' most definitely wouldn't be the same as our 'years' ;-)
Well, the word "human" is used a lot in Star Wars.
Examples:
C-3PO: "He's quite clever you know... for a human being."
Han Solo: "Jabba, you're a wonderful human being."
Anakin: "I'm the only human that can do it." (podracing)
Padme: "To be angry is to be human."
C-3PO: "I am C-3PO, Human-Cyborg relations."
C-3PO: "I'm PROGRAMMED to understand human behavior!"
C-3PO: "Sometimes I just don't understand human behavior!"
So, "galaxy far, far away" aside, I think it is safe to say, the characters are basically an identical species to human, however you want to look at it. Jedi are special, since they can use the force to do super-high jumps and such. Han Solo, for example, can't do anything "superhuman." Yoda, however, does NOT qualify as human, in this galaxy or any other! His jumping around at an old age may be due to his master MASTER Jedi knowledge and skills, or maybe his species is supposed to be able to hop around. Who knows.
Then again, we're talking about fictional characters in a fictional galaxy, so... yeah.
But there is still no explanation why Obi Wan aged so badly compared to Qui Gon and Dooku (within character, I don't mean the actors).
BUT... Mark Hamill aged pretty badly didn't he? Imagine him playing Luke nowadays....
Luke: "Ben, why didn't you tell me?? ... Why didn't you tell me! Why didn't you tell me how to age better!"
Obi Wan's Ghost: "Hey don't look at me, my master, Qui Gon, didn't pass on that knowledge to me! That bastard!"
Darth Venal said:Well, 10% was a rather rounded up, I didn't want to sound really nerdish by quoting the speeds we use at work (oh, we have sodding guidelines even for this!). But actually, you'd be surprised how much time compression does go on. And believe me, it's more than 4%. Producer/director Sean Cunningham is a big believer in it (not that many of his movies are particularly good) and he actually speeds up his footage by 8-10%. Seriously, he does. You can hear that from the horses mouth, and also from the poor directors whose footage he's speeding up who don't want it done!
10% sounds a lot, and obviously not all footage will handle it, but I have no reason to believe just enhancing the speed of Ben's twirl a bit isn't feasible.
I just don't think the MOVEMENT of the spin is convincing enough. Sure, speed it up, but it still would look like an old man tip toeing in a circle, but faster, rather than an aged Jedi spinning around for no reason, as Jedi seem to like to do in duels (just kidding of course, but really.)
Since the PT came out, the Obi Wan duel has bothered me even more, not because of the choreography, but because we are to believe that Obi Wan as a character is in his late 50's when he is killed on the Death Star, yet Qui Gon Jinn is supposed to be around 60 years old in TPM, making them close to being the same age when they died, yet Qui Gon's dueling looks much more convincing. To make it even worse (for me anyway), Count Dooku is supposed to be in his 80's during AOTC and ROTS! I won't bother with Yoda, since he's an alien and his species is mysterious.
This isn't the fault of Lucas, Alec Guinness, Liam Neeson, or Christopher Lee. Just the way things turned out in making these movies, since Liam Neeson was obviously younger than his character during filming, and Dooku in the duels is mostly just Lee's head pasted on a stunt actor. Still, it bothers me to see Obi Wan as a character be so unlike Qui Gon and Dooku in how he appears while dueling. It just doesn't match. Though ANH:R did fix this up a lot.
BUT... the weak spin still pulls me out of it. If I ever get to do my own edit of ANH, I would be removing that spin!
EyeShotFirst said:corellian77 said:Speed up Ben's "twirl" during the duel so it's more convincing?
I agree, I don't need it but it wouldn't hurt it.
I'm not sure it can be made to look convincing. Speeding it up will just make it look like... well, footage in fast foward! I think that would be trading a badly choreographed move for a badly speeded up version of a badly choreographed move.
I would rather that shot be removed, than altered. It just. Looks. Bad.
Zak said:Ithilgore said:Akwat Kbrana said:Darth Venal said:He may do that, he did it with the Ben/Vader fight in Star Wars. There's nothing wrong with the duels as such, just that the prequels had much better choreography and they make them look a little pedestrian.
I disagree. Aside from a few shots in Duel of the Fates, the PT lightsabre duels look contrived, rehearsed, and choreographed. Of course, that's because the duels in all of the Star Wars movies are in fact contrived, rehearsed, and choreographed, but the OT duels (aside from ANH, of course) don't look that way. In Luke's duels with Vader, it really looks like they're each trying to skewer one another. In the PT duels, it just looks like each contender is trying to swing his sabre around fancily and make contact with the other's blade.
Sure, the PT battles look pretty. So do acrobat routines, parades, and rock concert choreography, but there's no real danger to be found. I prefer my lightsabre duels to be a little more realistic and spontaneous, myself. The PT duels are many things to many people, but they certainly aren't spontaneous, or believable.
To sum it up.
Oh yeah. I agree 100%
This statement can be applied to any number of martial arts movies. It doesn't mean people (myself included) do not enjoy them still.
The image above does oversell the choreography a bit, but I see no problem with the rest of the PT duels, other than maybe how the ROTS duel was edited (in that damn Michael Bay hold-a-shot-for-3-seconds-then-cut style).
The duel that bothers me most out of all the films (even more than the original Obi Wan/Vader duel on the Death Star) is the ending of the Luke/Vader fight from ROTJ. I hate how Luke is wildly swinging, as if he never picked up a lightsaber before in his life, and decided to up and start a new hobby, and happened to catch Vader off-guard one day and defeated him. Seriously, at least Luke looked like he knew a little bit about dueling in ESB... in ROTJ he looks like he forgot how to duel toward the end. And I don't think being angry would make him forget how to duel properly, so I've never bought the whole "he was mad at the time" argument.
At least the ESB duel looks nice. Though you can't say there are not times when even the OT duels looks choreographed. Anytime a character in a movie spins during a fight, it always looks choreographed... I can't see how anyone would think that Luke's spin in ESB near the beginning of the duel looks NATURAL! And of course there's the ridiculously SLOW spin by Obi Wan in ANH.
I guess what I'm saying is: the OT duels aren't perfect either, just slower and less choreographed. It's apples and oranges on the flaws of the OT and PT duels.
Still, ESB has the best duel, in my opinion. For the sake of bringing this back on topic, I have no real suggestions for changing the duel in ESB:R other than new rotoscopes for the lightsabers, and adding burn marks to any surfaces that the lightsabers hit. The glow on the face of Luke from Vader's saber was already added, so now I don't have to beg for it!
Darth Venal said:
I wouldn't say that. You don't need to have frame-by-frame recall of Star Wars to see that it's clearly R2-D2 and C-3PO. There's just no getting around it, because of the way the shot is framed, around those four characters. Even if you manage to make R2 look like a very different droid, you just look at the shot and ask why there's another droid where R2 should be next to C-3PO. All respect to Adywan's amazing work, it's just with that shot I don't see what the big deal was. By all means, try to fix anything you don't like, after all, isn't that why most of us are here? But if the change fails in other ways, has it really accomplished anything?Oh, I know, I said that earlier, I was responding to some of the comments trying to persuade the idea that it wasn't. It clearly is two robots used for the turn, and it's not very well timed, so I understand why you wanted to change it. But my thoughts were that it's almost impossible to change because the framing just screams that it's R2-D2.
I would rather the droid be a different color than to leave the shot as is. It's supposed to be R2, but yes it is much more distracting that the droid "teleports" than it is for the droid to be a different color, even if 3PO is gesturing to the droid.
Think of it as a "lesser of two evils", continuity-wise. In that sense, I believe that yes, it has accomplished something.
