oh_riginal

One idea would be when Han Solo calls the Stormtroopers onboard the Millennium Falcon to ambush them and steal their uniforms, there be lots of violent sounds, laser blasts, a few punches, someone yelling "grenade!" followed by an explosion that shakes the screen... then when Luke steps out all he has is a faulty transmitter.

Just an overexaggerated version of the laser blast continuity error, basically.

I wouldn't be against Arnold as Darth Vader. Lots of potential there, depending on which films are used.

I did a video on youtube a while back that had Michael Scott from The Office on the rebellion's comlink.

http://youtu.be/T_U0sm2FELo

Not sure if it would fit with your edit, but feel free to use any ideas from it if you want.

muddyknees2000 said:

Ronster said:

What is the main motivation for replacing the canyon shot... Is it just the background Matte?

Well for one thing...the explosion is horrible......not sure if that's the ONLY motivation....but it's definitely one of them.

This is the one thing I've been dying to see since it was first announced. I hope Ady doesn't release a clip of it, as I want to see it play out for the first time in the final edit so I can see how seamlessly it fits in with the original footage. I expect it to be awesome! High hopes....

TV's Frink said:

Another movie I'm not interested in owning :p

What if someone submitted the dialogue? Lol

INVAR said:

oh_riginal said:

I assumed they were flying around to the other side of Bespin before going out into space. Sort of flying "undercover" in a way. But when they went back and caught the attention of the TIE Fighters they lost their opportunity for an easy escape and had to get to space ASAP to go to lightspeed.

 

That's a good supposition.  I always assumed that the moment the Falcon blasted off from the platform that the Imps called out to the flight deck to intercept it - especially given Vader expected Leia and Chewie to be taken to his ship.

That would explain the TIEs in atmospheric pursuit and Lando may have been attempting to use cloud cover to mask their getaway. His concern for the TIEs of course coming after Leia tells him to turn around and go back for Luke.

As to an ISD being put into the shot -  I would advise against it.  I always assumed the Executor was the only ship in orbit - especially given the stealthy nature of the Empire being AT Cloud City.  A fleet of SDs would have probably given Lando a lot more concern about their intentions when they first arrived, rather than simply telling him Han and Leia were simply needed for questioning to find Skywalker.

I think the scene as it was originally edited and paced, was perfect in tone, tenor and intensity.  Adding anything else (including Vader's shuttle) was totally unnecessary and ruined the pacing.

I think Ady will rightfully handle this and help us old timers appreciate what a true SE should have been.

I agree with keeping it as is. This is just one of those "well, I wouldn't kick her out of bed in the morning at least" type of changes.

I felt that the stealthy part is necessary, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Empire didn't invade Cloud City further, after the fact (and offscreen), since, as Lando replied to Han Solo's question earlier, the Empire could shut the place down for NOT being under Imperial rule.

Han: Aren't you afraid of the Empire finding out about this operation? Shutting you down?

Lando: It's always been a threat...

But he hoped his deal to betray Solo would take this worry away. We all know how that went. :)

So, in that sense, I could imagine a Star Destroyer or two arriving at some point to deploy enough troops to take the city for the Empire.

Ryan McAvoy said:

Darth Vader: No one cared who I was until I put on the mask

I think that is borderline genius to have as Anakin's last line.

I assumed they were flying around to the other side of Bespin before going out into space. Sort of flying "undercover" in a way. But when they went back and caught the attention of the TIE Fighters they lost their opportunity for an easy escape and had to get to space ASAP to go to lightspeed.

A funny way to use the Natalie Portman bathing scene, to tie into Anakin's nightmare gag, would be to follow up her diving in with the shot of Jar Jar coming up to the surface saying "yousa follow me now!"

Of course, the line could be dubbed to be something more fitting for a nightmare.

Niflamol said:

Take this as consideration, we never see big starships into the atmosphere of any planet in the old trilogy. This was established in the new trilogy.

Somehow I never realized that till you mentioned it. Interesting note.

If I were going to add the idea into an edit, I'd likely only do it in this shot. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think there is another view of Cloud City's top surface again after this (Special Edition not being counted).

In motion, it could just be the Star Destroyer slowing down to that point as it arrives. I would've just done a video mockup, but felt an image got the point across well enough in this instance.

SilverWook said:

Yeah, the sight of Natalie Portman in a skimpy outfit has no place in a PG-13 rated film. Especially one where the hero slaughters little kids, gets his other three limbs chopped off, then bursts into flames on camera, while his mentor and friend stands around and watches. ;)

The first sentence in the above paragraph made me not really pay attention to what was said after, even though my eyes scrolled through it. :P

Please excuse the small size of this mockup, but this is what I mean by just adding one or more Star Destroyers just above Cloud City to show more of their presence. One may also assume that the TIEs came from it to chase the Millennium Falcon after Luke is rescued.

BUT, not a super big deal to add either, I will admit now. I'm not fighting for it, but just wanted to place an alternate idea to having smoke and fire coming from the city.

Monroville said:

Well, there's nothing saying that if anything is added, it's just when the Falcon is coming back (ie similar to the background stuff in The Last Battle in ANH:R, you just show the TIEs above the city fighting with cloud cars and other ships trying to escape, with smoke coming from where the city on top is being pummeled).

Hell, at least show a plethora of ships in the distance all around the upper area of the frame showing the mass evacuation.  ANYthing to add some life and show what Lando gave an order for.

In response to the above image, I had always assumed that the threat of the Empire meant taking over Cloud City, not necessarily destroying it. Think Martial Law, not Mass Execution. Though it could be argued that the Empire WOULD do a mass slaughter, in this case I just thought it would lead to the lockdown of Cloud City more than anything, with the only certain fear of death being put upon the main characters, though that also isn't guaranteed since the capture of a high ranking rebellion leader like Leia would be worth the effort, even if it wasn't very effective in ANH.

If I were to add anything to the shot of Cloud City as the Falcon fled, it would be a Star Destroyer arriving to blockade and (offscreen) drop Stormtroopers off. But I do think seeing random ships evacuating in the background is already enough.

doubleofive said:

So, no one ever wants this edit to be released, I see how it is! ;-)

But seriously, it's really late in the game for new sequences of this magnatude *points flipper*

Oh so very late! I'm more eager than ever to finally see the edit!

However, I'll comment on the idea anyway. If TIEs were to be added to the sequence, I wouldn't want to see them underneath Cloud City while Luke is hanging. The whole point of that scene is that Luke has been beaten literally to his lowest point, and it's meant to feel like defeat, hopelessness, and it only uplifts when he reaches out to Leia with the force. Before that, you see him just a few slips from falling into a gas giant to his death, with nothing but a wire holding him up. There's no open doors for him to reach. His lightsaber is gone... seeing a bunch of action in the background would be distracting from that I think. That would bring the focus of the feeling of the scene to Cloud City, and pull away from Luke.

Just my thoughts on that particular detail.

Ronster said:

 

oh_riginal said:

brimforge said:

@ oh_riginal

was the "Han Solo Prediction" also from you ?

 

interesting, I had always thought he used his instruments, scanners and therefore could say that behind the ridge would be a cave ...

Yeah, I did that one too, and plenty more, though a lot of them were blocked by youtube.

In one of those prediction videos (there was two) I put a mockup of having the little screen in the middle of the cockpit lit up to show that it was functioning. I figured it might be a subtle fix for what bugs me about the timing of his dialogue and the reveal of the cave. But I wouldn't be surprised if it goes unchanged altogether, and it's something I can live with.

Edit: Upon realizing that this was one of the unblocked videos, I decided to supply the link. The mockup I speak of can be seen around the 1:54 mark. It's a rough idea, but one I'd still like to see, and it would be one of the easier changes to add in at the last second, if Ady decided to use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKGFj5OYY9Q

I don't think anything needs to be altered with this... When Han actually points and peeps over the dashboard the nose of the falcon is up in the air. Han has to actually spring up and look over. So he would be able to see over the rim of the canyon at this point. When Leia says "What looks pretty good" Han has already started flying towards what he has spotted and decided to dive back down totally changing the angle and making the Cave hidden because of the change in trajectory.

I ask that you please watch the link, as I did the pause/play-by-play for this exact purpose of showing that what you are saying is inaccurate. The timing of the dialogue does not match what he could physically see with his own eyes.

Now, if he's using instruments and gadgets, that's something else entirely. What you are saying is that he can see over his dash that there is a cave because the nose is tilted up, when the only reason the ship is in that position is because he is moving up to clear the canyon wall he just flew over, but all he'd be able to see is just the next canyon, if anything at all. He would not be able to see the cave located IN the canyon.

I've always been bugged by this small moment in the film, and likely always will be, which is why I went through the effort of making it as clear as possible why it bothers me. I feel the clip accurately portrays my complaint with the scene, and Han Solo could not possibly have known about the cave, so unless it is help from his ship's gadgets, I feel it is simply a continuity error caused by the timing of dialogue spoken in front of a blue screen, in which the footage of the Falcon's flight was placed in a manner where it does not match the timing of the words being said.

I'll give you the point of Han's pointing being way off center. That is definitely true, and not something I picked up on, surprisingly.

Ronster said:

On Set Audio was used in this scene for the device Leia is trying to lock in to place. It sounds really hollow and on the final time she bangs it into where it is actually meant to lock in and hurts her finger there is no click or sense that she actually managed to do it.

Please can this be fixed with a few simple sounds to enhance the scene and stop it from sounding so cheap and hollow from the poor on set mix audio. It sounds like the noise of the prop on set and has no weight to it but Carrie acts it well. All the other sounds I think are fine.

I know it sounds trivial but sometimes the small things....

example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gnHTyyDDHY

0:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3brybfozQU

Nothing set in mind just not so hollow as it is in the film but of course subtle and not loud and altering pitch is obviously an option but at the same or similar volume as it is now.

I always thought it sounded wrong as well. It sounds like plastic, or something similar, rather than some mechanical part likely made of steel or some other type of metal.

asterisk8 said:

I like the delay in Ford's line, actually, but not at the expense of C3P0's "excuse me ma'am". Personally, I'll take a minor continuity issue over losing a piece of dialogue.

You can imagine that some scanner high up on top of the MF swept the crater, found the tunnel, and did a blinky-alerty thingy on a screen only Solo can see. :)

I felt that losing half of the line made 3PO sound like he was so overwhelmed by the situation that he momentarily threw polite formalities out the window and simply wanted to know where they were going. :) I thought it added to the humor, even if it wasn't my intention for that to happen when I did the mockup.

I forget who brought this idea up before, but I remember liking the idea of changing the angle of the shot when the Falcon enters the cave so that it looks like it is coming in a downward angle instead of going left to right. The only issue is filling in the empty space created at the sides when flipping the shot to it's side.

muddyknees2000 said:

The monitor changes nothing....he's got all kinds of gadgets he could be using to "detect" the cave....problem is, he points out the window.....

Delaying the line works perfectly as it makes it seem like he has a good feeling about the approaching crater....which he then confirms when he spots an adequate cave in said crater.......it's dead simple, and it totally solves the problem.

I wonder how many people would miss the first half of 3PO's line there at the end. I found it more amusing with the "excuse me, ma'am" removed" personally, but I could see purists seeing it in a negative light.

brimforge said:

@ oh_riginal

was the "Han Solo Prediction" also from you ?

 

interesting, I had always thought he used his instruments, scanners and therefore could say that behind the ridge would be a cave ...

Yeah, I did that one too, and plenty more, though a lot of them were blocked by youtube.

In one of those prediction videos (there was two) I put a mockup of having the little screen in the middle of the cockpit lit up to show that it was functioning. I figured it might be a subtle fix for what bugs me about the timing of his dialogue and the reveal of the cave. But I wouldn't be surprised if it goes unchanged altogether, and it's something I can live with.

Edit: Upon realizing that this was one of the unblocked videos, I decided to supply the link. The mockup I speak of can be seen around the 1:54 mark. It's a rough idea, but one I'd still like to see, and it would be one of the easier changes to add in at the last second, if Ady decided to use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKGFj5OYY9Q

.Mac. said:

Not meaning to lead the current discussion off on a tangent, but seeing all those sparks reminded me of another scene and I just wanted to quickly ask if anyone else thinks this is a good idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF-mZxhprVQ

I think whoever created that had the right idea of adding some sparks there.

That would be me. :)

If I'm not mistaken in my recollection, Ady mentioned adding a flash there instead of sparks. I'm good with that, but I'm hoping when it comes to the audio side of the edit, something similar to the sound I added will be used to make the lightsaber not sound like a bat hitting a metal grating.

Not sure if the deleted scenes are being used, but if so, Bai Ling's character could be dubbed with the weird-as-hell lines she spews in The Crow.

muddyknees2000 said:

Wexter said:

I don't think dialogue makes the stormtroopers more menacing. On the contrary - if they have the need to spell out even the most basic orders (blast them, stop that ship), then they really don't seem to be a really competent force.

It's a command structure....it's not because they're stupid...but because orders (especially in high stress situations) are always barked out....even when the orders are blatantly obvious.

Personally I think having them completely silent makes them less credible as a source of danger to the protagonists. Like I said in my last post...I wouldn't want spoken lines everytime we see a stormie on screen......but I think only 2-3 instances in the entire film where a stromtrooper says something would make them more credible. One to three word sentences only....like "yes sir" or "move"....that sort of thing.

As I already mentioned once, just the "yes sir" alone would be enough for me. It's subtle, short, and the most logical out of the various ideas for dialogue placement.

Ronster said:

Talking storm troopers are more dangerous

As promised I did a mock-up of some storm trooper dialogue put in to stop the storm troopers in Empire Strikes Back from being mute.

Ideally some new lines of dialogue would be better but to show you what I mean and to keep some continuity I thought it was a good idea so I did it. I am not suggesting anything should be done of this nature for revisited but I would really like to see them talk again, and if they did in revisited well it would be great this video is a window to what could be perhaps.

weather or not you like it or hate it as a mock up, is not the point it's that at least for me they don't say a word and and I like some of it myself and am unsure also on some of what I did but it's more a demonstration than 100% solid suggestion.

Enjoy and discuss if you like, the link is below

https://vimeo.com/68900972

password = blast them

As a big supporter of mockups to display ideas, I'll give feedback on this.

I didn't mind the first few times the stormtroopers spoke, particularly the "yes sir" since it was subtle enough to work, but then they started to feel painfully forced, especially in the cloud city segments, such as "does anybody know what's going on?"

I doubt Ady will take to this idea, but as with any mockup, it's worth a shot. If I were doing the edit, I'd only consider the first part of the mockup, and then only as a consideration, not as a sure thing.

.Mac. said:

muddyknees2000 said:

.Mac. said:

True, seeing Vader's landing shuttle isn't truly needed... 

well said

but muddyknees, that wasn't my only reason for this idea. That would indeed be one of the highlights, but it'd be more than just that.

I was thinking it'd be worthwhile to have a panning shot (with the Lambda landing) showing several squads of imperial troops massing forward with more still roping down from an AT-AT. This way, aside from the walkers, the audience will be in awe and have a better sense for the number of imperial troops that were sent for this mission (more than just a handful that we see only in the tunnels), because the Empire did mean business with this large-scale assault.

I mean it does work fine exactly as it is now, but I always thought it could benefit us showing more (in this rare case and if done right). Just like we didn't truly need to see the Falcon flying through Bespin before it landed, but after seeing the SE Bespin up close like that, I thought worked great from a narrative and visual point of view - I'm happy that Ady thinks so too. The same could potentially happen for this other idea, maybe.

But who knows what all Ady has up his sleeve, so possibly this idea would interfere with an idea of his, in which case nevermind. Again though, it was just an idea that I could see working and would definitely welcome it if he did attempt it :)

I always thought there may have been more rebel bases out there aside from Hoth (which would explain why in ROTJ the rebellion suddenly has more than just humans in it). If this were the case, then the Empire's invasion likely was just a fraction of the power that they could have sent in.

Or I'm wrong.