The official site of Jean-Claude Mézières has some comparisons. I’m not convinced, they’re very superficial to me.
I’m thinking the same thing, especially since so many of the core ideas are very different.
Been meaning to check the comics out at some point, but there are loads of other unread comics which have greater priority, so who knows if I’ll ever get around to doing so.
Same boat.
I only know about the comic series from the movie Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets, which I very much enjoyed.
I’ve yet to see the film but I do love how colorful it looks.
Valerian and Laureline was a French comic series created by Pierre Christin and Jean-Claude Mézières in 1967 and follows the story of two Spatio-Temporal agents as they go about their adventures through time and space.
As some of you may know, several elements and ideas within the Star Wars saga are quite similar to those originating in this series. While nothing has ever been confirmed or denied by George Lucas, many say that this comic provided a fair amount of inspiration for Star Wars.
So, has anyone here ever read the Valerian and Laureline comics and what did you think of them? Did you enjoy them? Would you recommend them for Star Wars fans? Are the apparent similarities just surface level ideas or seem like more than just a coincidence?
Luke- The outfit he wears on the desert skiff. The grey robes over the black tunic thing.
Leia- Hoth uniform.
Han- ESB blue jacket.
I can’t believe I forgot the Boushh disguise! Not sure if I’d put it over Leia’s Hoth uniform, but its certainly an honorable mention.
I like that there’s a snake in Luke’s X-Wing before he leaves Dagobah.
I got the first Jurassic Park movie on DVD on my 5th birthday and it instantly became my favorite movie until I discovered Star Wars and Indy. I still love the movie to this day and the one word I think describes it best is: genius. In fact, in High School I finally got around the reading the original novels which were great too. Each time I re-watch the film there’s always something new I find to appreciate.
I haven’t seen the 2nd or 3rd films in ages so I’ll need to watch them to see how I like them, but I know for a fact that I couldn’t care less for the newer Jurassic World films. I’ve seen the first season of the tie-in animated series Camp Cretaceous and thought it was fairly decent though.
Update: So I’ve read some Tales of the Jedi. Love how Nomi Sunrider goes out into the empty desert and learns a bit about the Force. Love how the Jedi master was a giant lizard too and I wish we saw more unique things like that from Star Wars. Ulic is cool too but I have a feeling his story is going to get more interesting as it goes along.
I also reread Dark Empire II and Empire’s End… I do like that Veitch and Kennedy kept trying to introduce new things like the Shadow Droids and the Dark Adepts, but most of what else I have to say would lean more into criticism so I’ll stop here.
Luke- The outfit he wears on the desert skiff. The grey robes over the black tunic thing.
Leia- Hoth uniform.
Han- ESB blue jacket.
Now this is just an idea, and it might not work out all too great but hear me out: I wouldn’t even show his fall.
One idea I’ve come to like is that the prequels could have shown Anakin becoming a Jedi and end on a high note. He can have moments of struggle through the trilogy, but at the end he still seems like a good man. However, elements must still be sprinkled that in retrospect would make his transformation into Vader make sense. Maybe he looses a limb still, emphasize his allegiance to more centralized power, interest in the Dark Side, etc. Some of his personal struggles cannot be completely overcome. He still needs to be flawed. One approach to take could be to have Anakin be an underdog, one who his fellow students look down upon. Then we can have a character who struggles to rise through the ranks and achieve greatness. We can root for him. (Again, just throwing out ideas.)
The end can leave off on a bittersweet note: the Clone Wars are over, but the Republic is now and Empire. All the steps of Anakin’s fall have been foreshadowed but only when we look retrospectively. We need to feel proud and happy with Anakin at the end of the war. That way going into A New Hope, we the audience may truly believe that an apprentice of Kenobi named Vader did really kill Anakin, and the plot twist in Empire is still kept a surprise.
Another cool idea is to have Anakin start deconstructing the Jedi Order by not just killing other Knights, but by creating an ideological rift between members of the Order. Some like Qui-Gon and Mace Windu are allegiant to following the Force and standing up to the Republic (which is still slowly becoming an Empire throughout the whole trilogy) and you have those like Count Dooku who agree with Anakin, and think that more government power is necessary to end the war, regardless of the cost. Its kind of like blind patriotism. Maybe this would be too much but still, I think it’s fun to think about.
Edit: To clarify, Jedi could have multiple apprentices at a time like in 90’s EU.
I kind of dig the design.
I just looked into it a bit more and I find it so funny that the EU kept trying to insist the guy was not training Yoda on Dagobah. One retcon tried to claim it was just another swamp planet.
I actually really enjoy the way the Mandalorians are depicted in The Clone Wars, and prefer that depiction over all others.
Lets look at it this way, you have an entire culture that has overcome its violent past and is trying to move forward and not stoop back down to that level. Perhaps the pacifism is too far of a pendulum swing, but I think it makes the situation for the Mandalorians very interesting. They are so much more than just warriors, its a living culture with so many other facets. We see their architecture, their art, their medicine, etc. You also have the Death Watch, a group of terrorists who embrace their warrior past as part of their heritage. They are nationalist, extremist zealots that seek to bring back the days of Mandalorian conquest and plundering. Its not something to aspire to and makes them just as bad as the Galactic Empire. I also like that there’s less individuality with them in terms of their armor. I know lots of people like the idea of the Mandos wearing an assortment of different colored armor, but I like the idea that they are more of a traditional army. I think the idea the Death Watch represent in the show is a nice one to have in Star Wars.
I listed some things in the “What do you hate about the EU?” thread, so to balance things out I’ve come here to share what I like/love about the EU!
I appreciate the EU for finding imaginative ways to explore the Star Wars universe, mostly in those early days, but some of the later stuff did so too. I remember when I first found out about all of it- my mind was blown. I never imagined there could be so much more going on the Galaxy Far Far Away.
Lately I’ve taken a particular interest in the older EU stories. So far anything with Brian Daley and Archie Goodwin/Al Williamson has been great. Everything they do feels like it could have happened in an actual Star Wars movie, but they all manage to create all new situations and worlds to explore. It feels like a very natural and fresh expansion of the concepts, characters, and ideas introduced in the OT. Even though they show things like the Bounty Hunter on Ord Mantell or the Battle of Toprawa (how the Rebels got the Death Star plans) none of it feels like fan service. Its very authentic and fresh. (For context, I’m mostly referring to the Newspaper Strips, the Han Solo adventures, and the radio dramas.)
Adding onto that, I’ve also been impressed with the work of Tom Vietch. Bringing back Boba Fett and Palpatine should have never worked creatively. Its something that sounds like pure fan service, contrived and without any substance, but with Dark Empire Vietch manages to craft something that feels very special and unique. The art by Cam Kennedy adds to this as well. I’ve yet to reread Dark Empire 2 and Empire’s End though, so we’ll see what I think of that. I’m currently reading Tales of the Jedi for the first time so I’ll jump back into Dark Empire afterwards. Either way, I really enjoy the first Dark Empire.
I also really enjoy Matthew Stover’s Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor. Its epic in scale, its witty, cinematic, pulpy, philosophic, intense, atmospheric, and poetic. Luke gets pushed to his limits as he is faced with a nihilistic philosophy that threatens to break his spirit, all while he tries not only living up to the legacy of the Jedi, but to the legacy that’s been formed around him. The book also breaks it’s own meta. Was any of it real? Did it really happen? Well of course not, it is a novel after all… A lot of people hate it for that, but I think it’s the author’s way of commentating on the fandom’s obsession with canon and what “really happened.”
John Jackson Miller’s KOTOR comic was great too. One of the best comics I’ve ever read. I’m not a big fan of the KOTOR era, but the story and characters were just too good. The banter and relationships between the characters reminds me of the OT with Luke, Han and Leia. Some really interesting plot twists too- the kinds that don’t just come out of nowhere, but the kinds that make you go “why didn’t I see that coming! It all makes sense now!” (Even though I knew something strange was happening for a while.)
I think a lot of people conveniently forget Lucas’s impact on The Clone Wars when it comes to discourse. Lucas was at the head of the table in those writing rooms. If I’m not mistaken, most of the storylines and characters come straight from him. No episode got finalized without Lucas seeing it all the way through and approving it. That’s not to say it wasn’t a collaboration. It certainly was with all the writers, Lucas, and Filoni as director, and it was a type of collaboration not seen since Return of the Jedi I’d say.
Now, as for Anakin’s portrayal himself… I agree with G&G-Fan, to me it’s not a different and improved take on the character, but rather we’re seeing sides of him we unfortunately were not shown in the Prequels.
At this point I’m starting to think that the kind of mental gymnastics people use to resolve the contradictions between the PT and OT is funny. The contradictions are a blessing. They make the movies more enjoyable because I now get to listen to people spew horseshit about how the Ruusan Reformation explains how the Republic is simultaneously 1,000 and 25,000 years old. I wish there were more of them.
Lmao
If I have to hear about these “Ruusan Reformations” one more time I’m going to lose it.
Okay, so here are my picks:
The sheer amount of cataclysmic events and wars that follow RoTJ. Seriously, it’s like Luke, Han, Leia, and Lando just can’t catch a break. Every 2 years something insane happens and of course they’re the ones that have to fix it. They never get to retire or live out their happy ending. I don’t have an issue with new conflicts starting up, but do they always have to be so intense and involve the same ten people? This is why I’m very picky with my post RotJ content, and why I prefer to just go by head-canon.
“Never tell me the odds” is apparently some sort of Correllian belief or something? Seriously? Not only does it subtract from Han’s uniqueness, its just stupid.
I dislike how the Fate of the Jedi series turns “the Ones” from the Clone Wars Mortis episodes into mere celestials. I always thought there was something much more spiritual and psychological with those characters and their planet. But no, now all the mystery surrounding them is gone and they’ve been reduced to some overpowered superhero villains.
Also, why is there a need to overexplain almost everything? I get that a great deal of EU lore stems from the old West End Games RPG where it made sense to explain certain things seen on screen, but still. The EU as a whole goes too far with this.
Vitiate is terrible. Way too overpowered and boring. Also, I’m not the biggest fan of KOTOR and that era, but having Vitiate be the reason Revan and Malak turn to the Dark Side is stupid. Completely removes any sense of agency and choice those characters had in their decisions.
I really love some of your ideas Hal 9000. I especially like how you keep Yoda’s identity secret (and thus not spoiling any surprises in Empire) and how you had the Lars close to Anakin before he leaves to be a Jedi.
For context: I grew up with the 2004-2011 editions of the OT. Because of this I personally do enjoy seeing the added Wampa and Cloud City scenes. I’ve also seen the original Emperor holograms, and while yes, it does look weird compared to what I’m used to, it is certainly more sinister in my opinion. I have the same feelings towards the new Boba dubs. Don’t hate the newer versions, I’m more used to them, but the originals are quite menacing in a way I also appreciate.
Yeah, it’s a strange phenomenon. A few years ago, it seemed like prequel fans used to be more laid back and more open to criticism of the movies. They used to be more willing to laugh alongside you at the prequels’ ridiculous moments. But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.
I don’t want to start an unnecessary controversy, but I want to give my opinion on this topic, since I’m a Prequel fan.
I’m one of those people who’s not bothered by the things that annoy everyone. For example, the dialogue and the love story don’t bother me, as well as Jar Jar. So, I personally don’t see these things as flaws. However, I think it’s wrong to say that the Prequels have no flaws in general. But I think that the people who say that the Prequels have no flaws are driven to do so because, on the other side, there are people who say that they have ONLY flaws. That is, people of one extreme act the way they act because on the other side there are people of the other extreme. Since there are people who say that the Prequels have ONLY flaws, then there are people who, as an automatic reaction, defend everything about the movies and say they have NO flaws. The fact that there are no Original Trilogy fans who defend everything about the movies, is explained simply by the fact that there are no people who say that the Originals have only flaws, unlike the Prequels.
I agree with this.
What I’m about to say may not be the perfect analogy to describe it, but I’ll try anyway: Its like a pendulum swing. For so long discourse over the prequels was held in such a critical regard that its completely swung in the other direction, especially as those of us who grew up with them can now respond to those critiques.
If Ed Wood had been a multi-millionaire with access to early 21st century VFX, he would’ve made movies of exactly the same quality.
That’s part of the charm of the prequels for me, honestly. The fact that they’re so unapologetically George’s movies, with all the good and bad that that entails. It’s preferable to movies that feel like they were made by a board room.
I wish more prequel fans thought this way, really. I can understand loving the prequels, warts and all. What I can’t fathom is the mentality that insists there are no warts.
Yeah, it’s a strange phenomenon. A few years ago, it seemed like prequel fans used to be more laid back and more open to criticism of the movies. They used to be more willing to laugh alongside you at the prequels’ ridiculous moments. But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.
I’m pretty sure it is people in my age demographic who are the most like this, and it’s actually the thing that makes me feel a bit disenfranchised when it comes to talking with fellow Prequel fans because I accept they are flawed movies, but I still cherish them.
When I first heard about prequel criticism I’ll admit I was a bit shocked, but after listening to more of the arguments I found that I did agree with many of them. It’s actually a funny story because on of the first criticisms I heard about these movies came from my middle school theater arts teacher who said “Jar Jar Binks is one of the problems with those movies.” Of course I disagree with that point, I’ve always loved Jar Jar, but it did “wake me up” so to say.
I feel like I might be the youngest person here!
I didn’t start getting into Star Wars until I was about 7 or 8 which is when the '08 Clone Wars began, though I wouldn’t say I was fully obsessed with it till I was around 10. At the time the original six film saga had already been fully released so I had grown up with the whole saga as one and have nostalgia for all of it. In fact, my first time seeing Star Wars in theaters was the 3D rerelease of Phantom Menace back in 2012.
Beautifully put G&G Fan.
In fact, I think now that some of my opinions on this matter may have been too critical.
The latter is what I would prefer. I do love how Lucas used Anakin’s fall to have themes about the dangers of clinging onto someone too hard and not being able to let go. But I also think that having an added layer of Anakin’s unwillingness to accept his own mortality as well would add more to it.
Because you’re having a man literally slaughter his entire adoptive family. Going against everything he fought for and valued. His reasoning for turning should be multi-layered.
I feel like that’s a lot of the reason people cling to the “Jedi were ideologically flawed and Anakin was getting revenge on the Jedi for forcing him to repress his emotions” head canon when George Lucas literally agrees with the Jedi’s philosophy (and says they’re allowed to love and all that) and only blames Anakin’s greed and Palpatine’s manipulation for his turn. Anakin literally only turned to save his wife. Nothing to do with the Jedi.
“Some of the people had a hard time with the reason that Anakin goes bad… They didn’t seem to understand the fact that Anakin is simply greedy. There is no revenge. The revenge of the Sith is Palpatine. It doesn’t have much to do with Darth Vader; he’s a pawn in the whole scheme.”
-George Lucas, The Making of Revenge of the SithAnd that’s kinda hard for a lot of people to accept. So I think emphasizing more that Anakin’s only goal isn’t to prevent Padme’s death, but also his own and bringing order to the galaxy, bending the natural cycle of life and the state of the galaxy to his will, would be a good way to make his turn more layered.
I back everything about this. (And you’re also 100% correct about Lucas and his ideas about the Jedi.)
One thing I’d like to see “canon” isn’t so much one particular story or character, but rather a type of story: One off little adventures.
The Han Solo and Lando Calrissian adventures by Brian Daley and L Neil Smith are the perfect examples of this. They make up their own friends and foes, go to completely new worlds, and don’t rely on the same derivative elements and ideas.
They are simply entertaining stories that go off to new places. There’s weird stuff, there’s badass stuff, there’s funny stuff. Its perfect. Star Wars Visions and the Star Wars Tales comics somewhat follow this same idea, though without the parody or “fan-servicy” elements of the later.
I think it might be simpler to just do it the way the Star Trek EU does and let people choose to integrate or not integrate whichever canon they want.
Well, no. Unlike most of you, I’m a person who actually cares about continuity. I would like Star Wars to be a multimedia project, a single universe made up of multiple media that’s basically consistent with itself and between the various stories, as much as possible. I’m absolutely in favour of the existence of and official continuity, I think it’s necessary. This doesn’t prevent the individual fans to create their own personal Canon, and in fact I am the first to do so. But I think the existence of a stable and consistent official continuity is important.
Why
Why not? Canon isn’t the biggest deal ever, but it’s nice to have everything in a fictional universe be roughly consistent with each other. That way, you get to avoid the confusion that comes with insanely tangled multiverse timelines, and every installment feels like it “matters” in the grand scheme of things.
I guess I just don’t see the value in that. I don’t think either Star Wars EU does anything especially interesting with the overarching history of the galaxy so I don’t think we’d lose much by moving away from an overarching continuity. It feels like more of a novelty that pretty wildly different stories have continuity between each other.
I’m not big on the idea of all these interconnected stories myself. I think a better approach is to let different creators do different types of stories however they want to. If they want to form a continuity, the only rule should be no contradicting other stories. I think at its inception, Lucasfilm marketing wanted the EU to work like this, but what ended up happening was authors started trying to interweave everything. Miss this one book that came out three years ago? Well looks like you’re not going to understand what this is all about then.
Its also one of my least favorite parts about comic books. Miss a story or read one you didn’t like? Too bad, here it is in another series and you have to deal with it here now! This is a very niche thing but still, I personally hate not having a full story like that. This is going to seem bizarre to some but I did not like the famous Thrawn trilogy. I do however, somewhat enjoy Jedi Academy. It isn’t a big deal, but it is annoying to see Thrawn and Dark Empire Palpatine brought up in Jedi Academy, a trilogy that I think should be its entirely own story.
Just my opinions of course.