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ocpmovie

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Post
#198230
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198230/action/topic#198230
Time
Clearly, the cereal would be golden balls of corn, a la Captain Crunch's Crunchberries.


And yeah, marshmallow blue Zs, red hearts, white scimitars, grey tacks, purple shoes ....




"Yellow moons, green clovers ..."




And Elly, you're transcribing the Naisbitt convo? GREAT!


Anything you can't figure out, write phoenetically or whatever with three question marks ???, and I'll put in the right words.






Sean writes:
I started watching Recobbled until my son Ben had to go to bed. We'll
finish the film tomorrow. He was upset that we had to wait to watch the rest
of the film - that's a glowing review of the film so far from a six year old.




Anyone know if there's a website for the UK similar to Whitepages.com? It would be nice just to be able to go through phone listings and try to find some of these people!


YodaisYourFather - The Soho office seen in the 1980 doc was at 13 Soho Square ... I know that much ...
Post
#198214
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198214/action/topic#198214
Time
Awesome, faceman!



I want my Tack, Thief & Yumyum rag dolls, and my Zigzag and One Eye action figures. Also the King Nod inaction figure. And the old witch woodcarving kit.



I wasn't gonna post this because the sound quality is CRAP - you can barely hear what's being said ....

But screw it ... here's the audio for both Clapperboard episodes with Richard Williams, from 1969, discussing the Nasrudin film. Quality bad.

http://ctufilms.completelyfreehosting.com/cobbler/clapperboardfull.mp3

I, personally, think the audio's too bad to really listen to (and transcribe, probably, which was the point of this) ... I'm waiting to watch the real PAL VHS transferred rather than this crappy stopgap attempt ...

As before, this is the PAL VHS tape played at half speed on an NTSC VCR, with all the wobbliness that entails, then I pitch corrected and sped it up.

I'll have a proper transfer of this soon, since it's such cool stuff.
Post
#198055
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198055/action/topic#198055
Time
Here is the audio for the Warner Brothers Licensing trailer for The Thief. 6 minutes long.

http://ctufilms.completelyfreehosting.com/cobbler/warnerlicensing.mp3

Apologies for the wobbly sound quality - I don't have a PAL VCR, so this was created by playing the PAL tape on an NTSC VCR in slow motion, then pitch correcting and speeding up the results. It's actually listenable, but I'll get this tape properly transferred from PAL soon.

Sad how Warners did seem committed to the film at this point.

They use a familiar bit of music from "Scheherezade" ... and here I was, thinking I was clever and original using that in my trailer when everyone doing trailers for The Thief had had the exact same idea!

Well, shows I was right anyway.
Post
#198047
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198047/action/topic#198047
Time
Let's go completely off topic here ...


Since we're talking about classic animators, here's another blog identifying and discussing specific animators in classic cartoons.

I will introduce this in a completely off topic way with one of my favorite pieces of animation ever ... Preston Blair's Red singing "Oh Wolfie" in Swing Shift Cinderella (later reused in Little Rural Riding Hood) ... Blair breaks this down a bit in his book, but it's sexy and staggeringly well done and we all love it, so here it is as a starter.

http://classicanimation.blogspot.com/2006/03/preston-blair-swing-shift-cinderella.html
Post
#198038
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198038/action/topic#198038
Time
A few real animation luminaries in there. But nicest to see Dick with his mother. Gained a real appreciation for her after seeing some of her amazing paintings on Alex Williams' wall.

Sad about Joe Ranft.


There IS an entry about me at the Star Wars Wiki, but they wouldn't let me copy it over to the real wiki. =)


And you KNOW that if you had a 16mm print of anything we didn't have a video copy of, we'd already be paying to have it transferred. Heh.



It's funny that Phido's original name was "Brutay." At the end, when Phido joins in eating Zigzag, Zigzag says "You too, Phido?" as a sort of translated "Et tu, Brute?" So the original line would have been much more obvious ... something like "You too, Brutay?"




Captured and fixing the audio from the Naisbitt PAL tape ... christ, on the Warner Bros. trailer they say Dick Williams created The Pink Panther ... how dumb can you be?

(It was Friz Freleng, for the record, but you knew that. Everyone knows that.)
Post
#198034
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198034/action/topic#198034
Time
That's really neat.


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5804/1659/1600/dick%27s%20oscars.jpg


HANS BACHER WRITES ON HIS BLOG:

that was right after richard williams, the animation
director of ROGER RABBIT, got his 2 academy awards.
we met for a very nostalgic lunch with him and some
of his family and took this picture afterwards.
there were only a few attendees, because most of the
animation crew was again spread all over the world.

front row - steve hickner, joe haidar, dick's mother,
dick, one of dick's daughters, vera lanpher, pat sito.
2.row - mark kausler, jaques mueller, dave spafford,
andreas deja, dorse lanpher.
3.row - james baxter, leroy (archives), debbie spafford,
carl bell
last row - alex williams, me, mark gordon-bates,
roger chiassom, tom sito, nik ranieri, joe ranft
Post
#198026
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198026/action/topic#198026
Time
Holy crap! Where'd you get that from, Chris? =D


Hey EllyDorado! Welcome to the thread. Any help here would be hot.


Looking forward to the reconstructions at last, Patrick.

Chris Boniface seems to be roughly done with his restorations of the workprint and Arabian Knight ... so he'll mail them tomorrow or thursday, and get to work on some more stuff.

So, excited to see that. If they're good, I'll finally be able to get started on the final cut of this thing.


Tahir Shah (Idries' son) has promised to send me a copy of the 1970 BBC documentary One Pair of Eyes: Dreamwalkers! ... Richard talks about the Nasrudin film at one point in this doc.

Now that's big news.


Meanwhile, Tony White writes:


Thanks for the new stuff... great!!! It was very good for me to hear
Roy Naisbitt's voice again after all these years. We used to get on
very well during some very fraught times. I will definitely write to
him and rekindle the friendship if possible. I always thought it
would be great to get Dick's own 'nine old men' of animation together
sometime... then you would hear some real stories! (s)

FYI: The Thief was definitely developed from the old Nasrudin
project. What happened was that Dick's old business partner, Omar Ali
Shar (brother of Sufi writer Idrie Shah... and [I think] also author
of the Nasrudin books] fell out with Dick in a very horrible way (over
matters I couldn't possibly put in writing) and so Dick decdide to
ditch everything they had done jointly in favor of a new project,
based on concept evolved from the original Nasrudin storyline and
characterization. That was the beginning of countless 'Thief'
scripts, many of which were co-written by numerous people. The break
from the old Nasrudin was purely a tactical distancing from Omar...
that is, avoiding intellectual property issues.

As I say, there's a lot that I can't say about what when on in those
days but, remember... I was Dick's own assistance for two years during
those transitional periods and worked alongside him in the same room.
I wasn't privvy to everything but I do know some things. Try reaching
Dick Purdom and see if he will tell you anything. He worked in the
same room as Dick for many years and although a tight-lipped kind of
guy, you might get something from him. His wife was (and probably
still is) Jill Thomas, who also worked for Dick as a commercials
producer. They are both very guarded types but you never know... they
might help. The studio in London used to be called 'Purdom
Productions' I believe.

OK, must get back to my book work now. Thanks for keeping me in the
loop, its great to have these things relived for me.

Best wishes,

Tony :^{)}=-
Post
#197989
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197989/action/topic#197989
Time
What a horrible day I've had.


I've learned I'll be kicked out of where I'm living (failure to pay rent) ... I had a job interview but couldn't get there by bus - I forgot my wallet at home and wound up broke, in a random part of town, standing in the rain for three hours waiting for buses that never came.


I missed the interview, of course.


But then I get home, and what's there to cheer me up but a package from Roy Naisbitt!

Inside was a VHS tape containing some incredibly rare and wonderful Thief stuff.



So that cheered me up. =)


I can't play a PAL VHS tape on my system of course .... but I do have a varispeed SVHS deck, which can scan through the footage, kind of. I can see the image in black and white (slightly sped up or slowed down), and hear the audio sped up or slowed down.

So of course I had to check out what's on this tape.


Anyone in LA have a PAL conversion VHS deck I could look at this on?

Guess I'm gonna put this tape back in the mail and send it to Babyhum to do his converting wonders on.



Here's what it is, though - FASCINATING STUFF I'll add ...


TWO editions of Clapperboard from 1969 or so (!) .... a very young Richard Williams talks about the Nasrudin film at great length - this is already fascinating from what I can make out. No moving Nasrudin footage but lots of concept art. It's obviously the exact same film - he shows the brigands and the buddha ruby. Chief Roofless is evident in a pose seen later on a Cannes poster. Sgt Hook "It's a caravan!" is also there. We see Zigzag as "Anwar the Grand Vizier", with his vulture "Brutay." The artwork is identical to Thief concept artwork which showed up much later, and Zigzag is as we know him. Some time is dedicated to showing Richard animating a shot of a brigand laughing (which is in the film, in revised form). A couple of clips from The Little Island are shown which I haven't seen before ... introducing the characters "Truth, Beauty, and Good." The clip seen much later in I Drew Roger Rabbit is shown, except longer. He's shown working on A Christmas Carol, which is excerpted at length. Similar clips are shown as in the later Thames doc.

My, my. Even if I can't play this, I'm gonna try to capture the audio from this so I can hear it. Kind of futz it so I can see it before I send it to BH.

I wonder what the quality is like. The quality LOOKS good in B&W, but who knows.


Next up - an incredible reel of Williams commercials - and they ARE all Williams this time. Tony the Tiger, Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Goofy, The Pink Panther .... they're all there, along with all the commercials you've seen excerpts of in the documentaries about Richard. And the Harlem Globetrotters one seen in the Animator's Survival Kit! An incredible collection. Sometimes shows the animator's board saying "end."

Finally, we have an extended trailer for the original version of The Thief! This is a promo reel Warner Brothers put together, before they pulled out of the film. It's intended for advertisers, telling them how they plan to merchandise the film. A voice praises the unique style of the film as we see various clips.

"It's time for you to enter the Golden City and claim your share of the gold!"

The logo is the one with the Thief inside the "o" of Cobbler, as seen on the workprint. Again, wonder what the quality's like!

Most of the shots are of The Thief, pingponging from one place to another, and it does make the film look more esoterically artsy than sellable ... though it certainly is impressive! This is the only "trailer" I've ever seen for the true version of The Thief, perhaps the only one that existed ... and that, in and of itself, is fascinating.

But there are two clips here that didn't make it into the workprint! Brand new scenes not seen before.

Dig it ...

The first is of the Old Witch. The animation looks pretty weak here, like the shot of her grabbing her twitching knee in Calvert's cut. It's a closeup of her talking about what spell to use ... something like that. It was hard to make out the sound on a non-PAL VHS player!

The other shot looks beautiful even in B&W. It looks like a test shot of Tack, doing his little bumbling Charlie Chaplin walk around a part of the palace. Possibly test footage - it does resemble the walk Tack does in the workprint for "Go ... with Princess Yumyum." Except that he's alone in the shot.

My my my my my.

What a tape. Gonna get it converted. This'll be DVD number 10 in the set for those counting.


Speaking of Roy Naisbitt ...

I hate to do this to you AGAIN Patrick. Let me know if it's not ok and I'll figure something out, but this was honestly my third choice and last resort for getting these up. Next time I'll just put these files up on megaupload or something.

But here are the phone conversations, at last.

I'm going to sleep now (6:45 AM and got a job interview today so I'll get oooh 4 hours of sleep which is okay because I slept 4 hours earlier) ...

But I'll upload them here. If they're not here now they'll be here shortly.

Phone conversation with Roy Naisbitt. 1 hour 5 minutes. This is a conversation, not an interview, so I will come off as a brainless stuttering twat, but here it is, unedited.
This is a conversation already in progress, by the way - and he said some of the most interesting stuff when I wasn't recording.

http://ctufilms.completelyfreehosting.com/cobbler/roynaisbitt.mp3

Alex Williams, first phone conversation. Already in progress as we start. Same caveat applies - I sound like a moron. Also there's some personal information and phone #s in here but I'm too lazy to edit them out right now. Ignore them, they're not for you. The sound on this was originally unlistenable - I'd left the camera plugged in so all you heard was the RRRRRR of electrical interference. Noise redux in Audacity took care of that, so now the sound is just kind of crap quality. You can hear me all right, but Alex is a bit softer.

http://ctufilms.completelyfreehosting.com/cobbler/alex williams phone.mp3

If anyone can transcribe these, I'll owe you my first born.
Post
#197828
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197828/action/topic#197828
Time
I'll see what I can find out.


I'm posting the Roy Naisbitt phone conversation finally, and the first phone convo with Alex Williams.


LATER. FORGOT ORANGECOW.ORG IS USELESS FOR BIG FILES NOW.




Off topic but animated:

Jaime Weinman draws on an old post by Greg Duffell to give us these scene for scene breakdowns of who animated what in some great Bugs cartoons. Every scene in Rabbit of Seville is a classic, so credit where credit is due!

http://zvbxrpl.blogspot.com/2006/02/wb-animation-rabbit-of-seville.html
http://zvbxrpl.blogspot.com/2006/02/wb-animation-hillbilly-hare.html

Post
#197680
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197680/action/topic#197680
Time

BETH HANNAN WRITES:
I've just been reading with great interest about your project! I check
occasionally around the internet to see if anything is being done.

Anyway, I worked in the Trace & Paint department on Thief and Cobbler
doing cel painting in Camden in London. I only worked for the last year
of the production or so, was one of the last people hired and made it
through a round of firings - before of course we were all sacked on
that Friday (just looked it up in my old diary, it was Friday, May 15,
1992). We were told that morning that it would be the last day, I think
we must have worked in the morning, can't really remember and then all
went for a few drinks at lunch, when we returned were told to clear
out. Someone laid out some cels that we took and I grabbed all the
colour models I had at my desk and of course my brushes and that was
it.
We had a company party some weeks later and I was given my production
jacket (others had received theirs months before, but I was late into
the project so wasn't sure if I would get one at all - I was very happy
to get it).
The Trace & Paint was located in a different building from the
animators but we did get to see the rushes twice a week I think it was,
we were to report to that building first for the rushes and then go
back to our building a few blocks away after.
Anyway, don't know if any of that interests you! But like I said I do
have colour models that if you were interested in I could attempt to
scan (they might be bigger than my scanner though).
I have:
Vizier Zig Zag - dark colours
Nanny - normal
Princess
Eunuch
String (cobbler hands and strings formed into princess face)
King
Courtiers (Goblet, Gopher, Slap and Tickle)
a very small cobbler leading a camel with eunuchs carrying a tent
Thief - normal
Thief - moonlight
Cobbler
Another one that isn't labeled - can't remember it's name

those are all in color and I also have a photocopied Cobbler - shadow

I don't have any contacts with anyone I worked with unfortunately, and
I can hardly remember them! I do remember one German woman whose
husband animated, some Irish guys, some Australians possibly?
Post
#197677
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197677/action/topic#197677
Time
Tahir Shah writes:


Of course we all think of Dick W.
very often. he was a big part of my childhood tand the fact that he and
my father parted ways was something that has always left me very sad.
Nothing would make me happier than to re-establish a link with him or
with Alex, who I remember coming as a small child to our home, Langton.
Post
#197558
Topic
The Mask - Workprint (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197558/action/topic#197558
Time
We've got much worse in the Roger Rabbit thread right now.


I'll point out that temp score is no problem - you never use the sound from the final cut when doing this kind of thing. Just the picture.

Alternate takes, yeah, that's annoying when they're similar. A good example is the Dr. Evazan scene in Deleted Magic. All alternate takes, so very little of it is color.


Still, a composite cut is great because not only can you see as much as possible of it clearly, watching it you know exactly what's different. =) You become a scholar even when you're not paying attention.

Anyway, excited to see this.
Post
#197556
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197556/action/topic#197556
Time
Man, all the films Dick turned down because of the Thief. I would have loved to see Richard Williams do Lord of the Rings ... or Beauty and the Beast ...



JIM HILL WRITES:

Disney Feature Animation saw "B & B" as a way to keep the London-based "Roger Rabbit" production team busy & intact. Which is why -- initially -- Disney tried to recruit "WFRR" 's animation director, Richard Williams, to direct "Beauty & the Beast."

And -- for a while there -- Richard reportedly did give some semi-serious thought to directing "B & B." But then Williams realized that -- if he put in the time necessary to complete Disney's "Beauty & the Beast" -- that would be another four years away from working on his own dream project, "The Cobbler & the Thief." A traditionally animated epic that -- at that time -- Richard had already been working on for over 20 years.

Realizing that it was really time that he got back to work cobbling together "Cobbler," Williams turned down Disney's offer. Which is why the powers-that-be at WDFA eventually recruited Richard Purdum -- a well respected British animator who ran his own studio in London -- to serve as "Beauty & the Beast" 's director.





And Christ - it's 5:43 AM here and I'm typing and a lot of people are up. Must be time zones. It's a normal early hour on the east coast, I guess ....

I should sleep.
Post
#197543
Topic
Help Wanted: 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit?' Laserdisc Footage - censored scene
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197543/action/topic#197543
Time
Oh, the final version is good enough for me here. "Behind the Ears" was more than enough of a making of footage thingy. But I love this early pre-Williams test footage, cos it's so different y'know.


Like spotting the photos of early design Jessica in the final cut. It's so wrong it's interesting.



EDIT: Hey, supposedly there's a frame of Bugs Bunny giving Mickey the finger as he says "Ain't I a stinker?"

Could we get a framegrab of that?

Also, remember that originally "For a Good Time Call Allyson Wonderland" had somebody's phone number on it? Eisner's maybe? I forget ...
Post
#197524
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197524/action/topic#197524
Time
"Hijacking?" Pish-tosh! =) This thread is huge, it contains multitudes. Do what you wish in the name of fun!


And Chris - wow! Amazing! I'll write these people, try to get copies.

The sound cuts off during Jessica, so I can't hear her. =(

So where's the Paul Reubens Roger? That's gotta be better than Charles Fleischer!



Yeah, I'm spending the night reading old Jim Hill articles. This one's interesting, because it suggests a Roger Rabbit version of the Tower of Terror, where you would have heard Richard Williams' Droopy voice, a la the movie. Hm.

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/article.php?id=834
Post
#197517
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197517/action/topic#197517
Time
You two should hang?



ANYONE GOT THIS??


Waaaay pre-Williams, yo.


In spite of this setback, Miller still had Sturdivant and Citters continue work on "Roger Rabbit." He ordered that live action footage be shot, so that pencil test animation could be layered over these scenes -- to see if a toony Roger Rabbit could convincingly interact with a live action Eddie Valiant.

Early subscribers to the Disney Channel actually got a chance to see this footage on an April 1983 broadcast of "Disney Studio Showcase." Hosted by animation historian John Culhane, this program (which also hyped the then-in-production film "Baby - Secret of the Lost Legend" as well as Tim Burton's TV version of Hansel & Gretel) included a preview of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit."

The test footage featured an unknown actor standing in for Eddie Valiant. After exiting an alley, Eddie is suddenly accosted by a giant cartoon police detective. He's then shown drinking at a bar with an early version of Jessica (Who at this point in her development, wasn't quite so voluptuous. This Jessica -- who was supposed to be the villain in this version of the film -- looked a lot like Cruella De Vil-gone-Hollywood). The segment ends with Culhane exiting the Roger Rabbit production offices, just before a fully animated and painted version of Roger strolled through this live action setting.




From this older but must-read article ...

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/article.php?id=416
Post
#197516
Topic
Help Wanted: 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit?' Laserdisc Footage - censored scene
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/197516/action/topic#197516
Time
ANYONE GOT THIS??


Waaaay pre-Williams, yo.


In spite of this setback, Miller still had Sturdivant and Citters continue work on "Roger Rabbit." He ordered that live action footage be shot, so that pencil test animation could be layered over these scenes -- to see if a toony Roger Rabbit could convincingly interact with a live action Eddie Valiant.

Early subscribers to the Disney Channel actually got a chance to see this footage on an April 1983 broadcast of "Disney Studio Showcase." Hosted by animation historian John Culhane, this program (which also hyped the then-in-production film "Baby - Secret of the Lost Legend" as well as Tim Burton's TV version of Hansel & Gretel) included a preview of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit."

The test footage featured an unknown actor standing in for Eddie Valiant. After exiting an alley, Eddie is suddenly accosted by a giant cartoon police detective. He's then shown drinking at a bar with an early version of Jessica (Who at this point in her development, wasn't quite so voluptuous. This Jessica -- who was supposed to be the villain in this version of the film -- looked a lot like Cruella De Vil-gone-Hollywood). The segment ends with Culhane exiting the Roger Rabbit production offices, just before a fully animated and painted version of Roger strolled through this live action setting.