negative1

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

tom said:

Thank you for the scan.  That looks like a theater snipe.  How long is it?  Are you going to make a video of it?

 

I'll be happy to volunteer my workprinter.  It's 16mm?  For some reason I had thought it was 35mm.

puggo,

send me your information again, i have some other 16mm stuff too.....i  can work out a way to get it to you..

later

-1

TheoOdo said:

@ Negative1

All of the OT is based on dichotomy, so all references to the political scene are there to expand upon the evil and undemocratic nature of the Galactic Empire. Although a backdrop which adds fullness to the setting, the references to imperial politics are not necessary to understand the plot of the film. In the PT they are. It's vital to the plot that we understand that Amidala wishes to discuss a treaty with the Viceroy in order to eject the Trade Federation from her planet. That's her motivation in returning to Naboo. It's not a particularly interesting motivation, but there you have it.

well,

ok, now that you've actually decided to be a little more descriptive, instead of being derisive (like you initially were),

and actually have some arguments/points to make......why didn't you just do that in the first place, instead of just

tossing out the off-handed brief commentary....................wouldn't that have saved you all the trouble of having to explain

yourself again, which you're doing now????????

i know the purpose, and intent of all the political scenes, i know their motivations, and in fact what they are allluding to in a larger picture...

not FOR ONE MINUTE , does it make it any easier, clearer, or strengthen the plot, or even add to its complexity for me.... it still boils

down to a backstory, that while mentioned in the crawl, doesn't need to be understood to enjoy the base level of the movie, it's an

adventure, its action, fighting, sneaking around, blowing up things, playing around with cool toys, seeing weird creatures,

and making some corny jokes, sarcastic comments, and having a good time overall......................................  i don't really want to

know about inter-planetary problems / alliances / issues etc..............it just bogs it all down....

Contrast that with Luke's motivation in destroying the Death Star; all his friends, and probably himself also, will die if he doesn't and the universe is doomed to endure constant tyranny, terror and genocide on planetary-scale for centuries to come. What would happen to Naboo if they didn't succeed? They'd, in all probability, have to wait for a commission to confirm that a droid army had indeed occupied Naboo and then hear from the Queen that she was forced to sign the treaty under threat of death, at which point it is rendered void and the droid army is expelled from Naboo with the assistance of the Republic.

speculation about the OT, once again not being demonstratable, struck down as a comment .................

speculation on the PT , struck down as a comment (unless theres some EU stuff that i don't know about)...

Scenario 1.) The universe is doomed. Scenario 2.) Naboo has a bad day.

that's a pretty loose interpretation of events , even with the 'star wars' closed universe of the PT, and the OT,

i would think it was doomed in both cases, or you could say 'alderaan' had a bad day couldn't you?

Also, the lines you picked out are character building. It informs us, first of all, of Darth Vader's name and also tells us that the white-robed woman is a politician, a royal and a sympathizer of the Rebellion mentioned in the opening crawl. It informs us that Vader is "bold" and that Leia is "merciful". Honestly, Negative1, you seemed to have picked out the only line in which the Imperial senate is mentioned, next to Tarkin's informing the other imperials that it's been destroyed which is there to further solidify our understanding that the Empire has no respect for even it's own spurious vision of democracy.

those lines didn't tell me more that what we already knew at the crawl (and honestly, by this point, i probably glossed over what i had seen earlier,

and was just trying to pay attention to the action)... and yes, they all have their place in adding to the commentary and viewpoints of the characters of course..

but the same is true in the PT, there were lines, scenes, and plot points that all had expository sections where they described events, attitudes, and similiarly

the context in which political climate were...[in fact, in much more detail]....

Whereas "now let's discuss a treaty" is hilariously anti-climatic, after a scene of lightsaber-fighting and shooting. It's rather like the line from the Da Vinci code "we need to find a library!". It's just so...bleh.

there you go again, just when you start explaining your viewpoint, which actually made me think about,

you resort to your own personal prejudices....

later

-1

lordjedi said:

skyjedi2005 said:

To be fair to negative 1 the dialogue is different in the final film than in the shooting script.

You want the llines as they were delivered in the film you need the transcripts aka continuity scripts.

 

I disagree.  If you want the lines as they were delivered, you need to watch the movies.  Only then can you get the tone, inflection, and the actors ability in it's true context.  I'm sure if the lines had received the same delivery as the PT lines did, they'd be downright dry and boring.

do you think i would be going out too far on a limb to say that

1) i have a fair degree of certainty that anyone participating / commenting / arguing about any of the points in this thread

   is in fact, actually, referring to the way the lines WERE DELIVERED IN THE MOVIES..................if someone is reading these

   here for the first time without watching the movies (and reading all the spoilers also) they probably wouldn't comment,.......

   i don't think anyones implying that just reading these lines here is giving them an indication of how they were delivered in the movie

2) that being said.......... i stand by my analysis, that the lines come across as flat, dry, and in fact a little slow paced..........

    i have to admit that i've read Star Wars the novel/scripts etc....many many more times than i've ever watched the films..

    i just started listening to the radio dramas and the vinyl versions a lot more recently...............which again, have a different

    delivery..............................................   so maybe i'm more lenient on all the extra detail in the books, and in other formats,

    but have less patience in the film versions.............

later

-1

Josh said:

How are those HIGHLY ATICIPATED pics coming along Negitive 1?

 http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-TEASER-TRAILER-CLIPS-AVAILABLE-NOW/post/325697/#post325697

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-TEASER-TRAILER-CLIPS-AVAILABLE-NOW/post/325699/#post325699

vids:

-----

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-TEASER-TRAILER-CLIPS-AVAILABLE-NOW/post/325759/#post325759

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-TEASER-TRAILER-CLIPS-AVAILABLE-NOW/post/325760/#post325760

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-TEASER-TRAILER-CLIPS-AVAILABLE-NOW/post/325762/#post325762

later

-1

and the final part..

note the screen with the wampa (with horns) in the video..................

link : http://rapidshare.com/files/134355732/esb-adySplit1080-3.avi.html

later

-1

part 2...

of special interest is the droid striking the ground scene (reversed)..

http://rapidshare.com/files/134356001/esb-adySplit1080-2.avi.html

..more

ok,

this was the best i could on short notice....

i'm not doing a frame by frame change...that would be too much for now..

the point is to give you an idea of the pacing, the color, the shots etc....

i'll be posting 3 short clips...check them out....pretty cool seeing the differences...[NOTE : THESE ARE NOT FRAME ACCURATE DUE TO CORRECTIONS************]

link : http://rapidshare.com/files/134355818/esb-adySplit1080-1.avi.html

later

-1

ok, time out..

yes, i can't do my research properly.................. those quotes are from the 4th draft of the star wars script.....

how come i can't find the final version on the net?               has anyone transcribed it yet?

anyways,  you got my point...................even it wasn't the exact words....................imperial senates, councellors,

the darth vader board room meeting scene...................talk about alderaan, planetary conquest, etc...................

boring politics...................................

later

-1

and a few more..............

----------------------------------------------------------------

later

-1

here's a set of comparison pics, of adywans hi-def sample, compared to an older HDTV version, 1080p also..based on the SE colors....

[i've reduced all pictures by 50% for easier posting/less bandwidth]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

==============part 1=============================

TheoOdo said:

"Now, Viceroy, we will discuss a new treaty!"

Whoah-ho! Hold the phone! They're gonna' discuss a treaty!? WOW! I'm giddy with anticipation! In the words of the young Anakin Skywalker: Whoopie!

 LEIA: Lord Vader, I should have known. Only you could be so bold. The
Imperial Senate will not sit for this, when they hear you've attacked
a diplomatic...

VADER: Don't play games with me, Your Highness. You weren't on any
mercy mission this time. You passed directly through a restricted
system. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies.
I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you.

LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the
Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............imperial senate...............diplomatic...........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........mercy mission................restricted system........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........imperial senate.................diplomatic mission........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 ...much later

HAN: (yelling) Yahoo!
====================================================================

will someone wake me up when they actually start talking about something interesting???????????

see, it works both ways, doesn't it..

later

-1

[technical addition............................since i'm mapping out episode 4 frame-by-frame, here's my synopsis of the same events]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mielr said:

adywan said:

So a future dialect (even though, as C3PX stated it is set a long time ago and NOT in the future) means no British accents then, just your  American one? Wow, talk about a superiority complex. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure, but I think Negative1 is British.

sorry,

i'll clear that up right now.....(or maybe not)...i was born in an asian country,

lived in canada for about 10+ years, then moved to africa, the middle east,

and settled in the USA for about the last 3 decades.............i'm actually a

dual citizen of canada-us........................and on top of that i lived in texas,

and picked up a few speech mannerisms from there.................there are

you as confused as i am....??

and of course, i did see 'star wars' in Canada, where they have different accents also...............eh? ok hoser, get off my chesterfield ! (ha!)

later

-1

doubleofive said:

-1, can you stream it straight to your 360 or do I have to convert it first?

i don't use any streaming software (like tversity)...because my computer/xbox 360 are both hooked

up straight to the flat screen tv i have....so i'm converting it by demuxing it first, and then converting

it using mediafactory 6 into HD DVD format for the add-on, for a test purposes, and since its a pretty

low bitrate, and short, i can maintain full quality..........................

later

-1

excellent,

works well on my system,

and converting it over to other HD DVD format too...

looks impressive.....maybe i'll post some comparison shots?

later

-1

ok,

maybe i should clarify something, (not that it seems like anyone here will care)..

why was this item even mentioned here? is there really no interest in it from anyone?

US$4000/1400 frames is about  $2.85 per frame.............. how much would it cost to get

those frames, enlarge them, print them etc???????????????

are we going to get this chance again? yeah, just like how i missed out on all the action

figures when they first came out, or the 'collectors cards', thank God, i kept some of those...

isn't this basically  an investment? (don't get me wrong, i would love to get them, scan them,

reprint them etc for ANYONE here that wants to see them, print them out, or doing something else with them, just let me know when i get it, we'll work something out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........................)

if the coloring is from the original, wouldn't be an awesome color reference????????????

if it cost's too much, can't a bunch of you get together and pool your resources?????

maybe now that i'm older, i can appreciate the work, dedication, and effort that goes into it,

and having something signed by Lucas is a special bonus for me also....................

i'm amazed the hatred , hostility and negativity (ha!@) that i see here, so are you saying

that 'star wars' which is included in here, along with other favorites (not mine) such as

'empire strikes back' and 'return of the jedi'...........deserve to be namecalled, cast down,

and ostracized?????????????????????????? that's a very strange attitude to me , coming

from people that are here because/despite Lucas creating it ? ? ? ? ? ? ? !?????!?!?!??!?

why does everything that is released or put out put under such scrutiny, and skepticism?

can't ANYONE see ANYTHING good coming out of this at ALL, for the star wars community???????

(i know i can see it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and i would LOVE to share it with anyone that wants to see it, or even cares) 

i not sure why someone who is proud of their work, and wants it displayed in this fashion,

is being chastised by the fans who somewhere, at somepoint in time, thought he actually

did something right for once..................................................................................

sometimes, even being a 'star wars fan' makes me sad, even when among the friends i see here...........

later

-1

lordjedi said:

negative1 said:

star wars influenced a 10 year old child, over 3 decades ago,

and now i find myself at a point in my life, where i want some way to find that feeling again...

why shouldn't i be excited???????????

 

later

-1

 

Maybe because the Star Wars that you and I grew up with isn't the same Star Wars anymore.  I don't know, just a thought.  If you're still trying to "find that feeling", then you may be waiting a very long time.

lordjedi,

             its ok......i've started to find that feeling already................thanks to this board...

             honestly, and i'm not joking here.....

             despite the conflicts (see earlier in the thread), disputes, arguments, and namecalling, (i have thick skin),

             i can't even begin to tell you how excited, relieved, and amazed by this board, and the people on it.........

            every question i could think of, is instantly answered............help is given, when i haven't asked..

            copies of rare / non-existant / bootlegs sent out for free................................ resources that i couldn't have imagined

            all combined in one place.....yeah, i've been on the internet before as a spectator.....i only got my own personal

            connection a few months ago, and for the first time, i finally have found people that share a passion together...

             i have no kids, i'm not married, i've never had a significant other, i don't have pets, nothing...........i dont' even have any

             friends that i know of to share anything 'star wars' related to..........................all i've done is work, and maybe enjoy some

            other hobbies...........................

            i can honestly tell you that a few weeks ago, watching the 8mm transfers of star wars and empire had me overjoyed beyond

            belief, i didn't even know they existed, and now after asking, i can watch it in my own home...................later on i got a copy of the bootleg

           widescreen version of 'star war's, and shortly after the mono mix............so what? you're all tired of it, and everyones seen them decades

           ago.......................................no, to me they ARE SPECIAL, yeah, we have fancy high definition verions, and laserdisc/dvd rips (which have their

            own place)...........................but these put me back to a place in time, when simple things were exciting..............

            i know maybe i shouldn't be so excited, but its hard for me not to be........................i can't help it, i've been at the movie theaters for EVERY SINGLE
            film when it was out, the OT, some re-releases, and the SE, and finally all of the PT......i'm NOT going to miss out now  either............

           i wish i could be more cynical, and sarcastic, and depressed (i can be that way for a lot of other things though!-see wall-e comments)..................

          ...................................but not with Star wars.

           later

           -1

doubleofive said:

professa skiving at work said:

of course go for 1080p if that's what makes you happy - i'm sure if you don't, you'll regret that in a few years

what i wonder is - am i the only one who thinks the dvd pic looks better than the 720p???

I think that there's not enough noticable difference in 720p to 480i to make that worth it if you just go by that screenshot, but the difference between the 1080p and the 480i is pretty awesome.

i'm not sure if anyone saw this...

check out the tiny box in the middle, that is the lousy, crappy, and horrible dvd resolution (480p)..[note image is from cropped GOUT NTSC dvd]......

now check out the large image around it......................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

to get a better idea of what is going with the aspect ratios...

image 1: comparison of all images

--------------------------------------------

 i hope that clears it up for you..

later

-1

C3PX said:

You're joking about going to see this opening night and the $4,000 stills coffin thing right? I find it hard to believe you really eat all this stuff up hook line and sinker. I think you are just trying to impress on us what a devout fan you are.

no,

i'm not joking....why would i do that?

to impress anyone? no...because that would be pointless..

i could care less if anyone thinks otherwise....

this board has opened my eyes to all the star wars versions out there (8mm, mono, vhs , HD rips etc),

ALL for free..........along with all the other cool stuff.........scripts to convert the laserdisc rips,

image enhancing algorithms................i've started mapping out the original star wars FRAME-BY-FRAME

(see the technical thread), i've watched the first 27000 frames a few times now...

i'm a long lost star wars fan, that is finally finding out about all this stuff NOW....i finally have a great job that

lets me buy ANYTHING i want, including the 35mm version of ESB (if you check the fan restoration thread), i almost

got the 16mm version of star wars too,...... i'm old enough and financially stable enough to get any/every version

of star wars that is out there........is there something wrong with that?

i thought people around here actually liked 'star wars'.......i could be wrong though..

obviously it seems like  i am outnumbered by the super hardcore fans here that have

watched the movies hundreds of times, and have been collecting, reading, writing,

editting, and everything else star wars related..................................i've seen the original

trilogy less than 10 times in the last 2 decades............i'm hungry for more.. i'm probably

one of the most casual fans on this board...................

star wars influenced a 10 year old child, over 3 decades ago,

and now i find myself at a point in my life, where i want some way to find that feeling again...

why shouldn't i be excited???????????

later

-1

thanks adywan,

i will try it out.................i haven't had to many dvd's with this issue before,

so that's what threw off the ripping...

later

-1

skyjedi2005 said:

No matter what i like Wall-E better than that clone wars movie being promoted by Luca$hfilms and Pukas.

great, now you're a psychic? amazing you can't like something that isn't even out yet...

i'll be there opening day (or midnight screening).......................can't wait to see it..

...

later

-1

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

 

That explains why many of them were quoted incorrectly.  If you go back and watch the movie, you'll find that many of them were actually considerably different in the movie than how they were listed in your reference.  Even considering that, I'm surprised you'd find ANY of those lines poorly conceived... most of them strike me as very well-written dialogue.

And, one of those British accents you so mockingly deride earned an Academy Award nomination.  By contrast,  ROTS garnered an impressive Golden Rasberry award in this same category.  I'm surprised you'd single out Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing thusly... they surely are the two finest actors in the entire "saga", and in my opinion turn in by far the best performances.  But you're entitled to your opinion.

puggo,

rather than debate about what is worthwhile dialog, again, don't you think this post-retrospective analysis has tainted both of our ideas of

what we considered to be critical dialogue?   ...........................once again, when i first heard the dialogue many years ago, it struck me as odd,

that some characters spoke 'differently' in their intonations, and vocal cadences compared to the mostly 'american' voices of the other characters,

yes Sir Alec Guinness had a distinguished career, and so did Peter Cushing, but do you think a 10 year old takes that into account when watching

a sci-fi spectacular????????????????????

granted once again, understanding the context of the movie, the characters, the actors used, etc.....yes you can justify those conclusions NOW...

but what about back then?   to me , they still sound jarring, take the characters out of context, and place them back in the reality of this world,

instead of being some foreign, mysterious, future era............i loved the alien characters, and sounds, and all the other touches though, but i

could hardly imagine the patience of anyone to make this movie entirely in a future dialect, and have it subtitled (hmmmmmmmmmmm.....sounds

like a fanedit project)..............

later

-1

CO said:

There are two scenes in Star Wars that come to mind where C3PO is used totally different then he did later in the films.  The first one was the scene in Bens Hutt where Luke learns about his father.  What is the only word C3PO utters, "If you don't mind sir, I am going to shut down for a while."  That was Lucas understanding this wasn't the time for annoying C3PO, because it is an important and serious scene, and he doesn't want C3PO mucking it all up.

Then the ending when they attack the deathstar, does C3PO say anything as it cuts to him and Princess Leia?  No, it would take all the drama out if you heard him mutter anything, so C3PO and Leia just stare at each other the whole time to drum up the tension.

Now fast forward to TPM, and Padme meets Anakin for the first time, should be an iconic scene, but what is going on in the backround?  Jar Jar doing his Three Stooges routine as he is bumbling and fumbling all around.

You tell me which one catered to kids more?

i'm not sure why you singled out C-3P0 to be used as a redeeming character...

why don't we just fast forward to 'the empire strikes back' to see how pointless, annoying, and grating C-3PO was?

[list to be posted shortly, and no i'm not kidding about this.]............................

you don't have to go far to see the deterioration of the character that really wasn't that serious to begin with in the

first place.... c3po whining and complaining about every little issue, flailing around, aggravating other characters etc..

c3p0=jar jar to some extent wouldn't you think? yes there were other comedic moments, and light-heartedness,

but dont' we need the archetypal comic in the story to relieve the seriousness, and stress?

maybe that's why i always preferred r2d2 any day over c3po,

that character actually did something useful (like saving all their lives several times over).....without being annoying...

later

-1

zombie84 said:

Remember when we said "yeah Lucasfilm will probably charge $200 for this", and we laughed and laughed?

 

etc..etc...costs FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS!

that's fine, i'll just have save up a little longer,

unlike a lot of other collectibles that i could not have cared about, this one really is limited, signed, and comes in a

very cool looking case.......i only hope i can get one reserved, as these might

sell out possibly, with such a limited number (and i see the price going up

after that).........awesome looking at those still pictures though.............

maybe they will release a 'lower priced' consumer version....one

can only hope..

later

-1

Tiptup said:

Star Wars is one of your favorite movies, negative? Do like it more or less than the prequels?

What have you been doing since this thread was originally posted? Watching the movie and writing down lines you felt you could criticize?

tiptup,

thanks for the detailed explanations,

but i was only being half-serious about those lines...

no, i did not watch the movie again, i just pulled up a reference, and commented on them...

i think either you completely missed the point of what i was trying to show.............

nothing has to be completely literal, does it now?

don't you think i know what was meant, and intended from those lines.............

look, maybe i'm not good as marking my own sarcasm, snideness, or just being silly.................[its hard to do that on a forum].............

i guess that what all those little faces and symbols are for (smileys, i think they're called)....

i don't need to post a rebuttal, because one is not needed...................................

i was a child when i saw the movie originally, and a lot of lines did STICK out to me as being CHILDISH and SILLY,

retroactively looking back as an adult can either polarize your view back to over-analyzing it (like you did),

or reducing it to glaring simplicity (like i did).....

i'd call it a stand off..

later

-1

CO said:

Hey Negative1, those lines you just typed from Star Wars 77 actually got an Academy Award Nomination for Best Screenplay that year!  

 

Who's the more fool the fool who takes the time to type all of those lines on a Message Board or the fool who just enjoys the movie:)

In all seriousness Negative 1, you can always debate what is and what isn't corny in every movie, but when you have lines like, "Jar Jar you in deep doo doo!"  That shit is literally written for a 5 year old, and is embarrasing that Lucas would put something like that in a SW movie.

oh gee, i'm soooooooooooooooo impressed...................an academy nomination?

well, considering how 'annie hall' won, and its competition was 'the goodbye girl'..........what did star wars end up with ? sound/special effects etc...

yeah, dont' forget who also got nominated for BEST Director that year : George Lucas

right next to my bed, i have a small reference book that i look at from time to time:

-----------------

its a fun short little book, the quotable star wars.............i've always found fun/thoughtful/good quotes in it..

1) i NEVER SAID there weren't childish or cringe-worthy moments in the prequels, i've never denied it..............................but there are EQUALLY BAD IF NOT WORSE

moments all throughout the original trilogy also..

2) guess what, i was 10 years old when i saw star wars, and even back then i knew a lot of that stuff was written at my level, because i could understand it,

yeah C3P0 was embarrassing to watch, r2d2 wandered around desperately trying to communicate, luke bumbled his way through the dialogue, leia and han

hammed it up..................and darth vader over-acted, along with the rest of the 'british' actors..................and just how did the british accents survive that long?

gee, i guess modern cursing, sayings, and culture (not to mention the hair cuts), didn't date this movie as classic 70's fare.................

so whats your point about childishness, target audiences, and corniness?

i guess you could say we're both right...........

'from a certain point of view'.......................................................[groan]...

later

-1