negative1

AntcuFaalb said:

I'm relaxed :-) I'm sorry if I don't seem to be...

I'm just devoted to seeing your preservation with as many of its uglies intact.

Keep up the excellent work!

it's ok.

we went through this and many other issues

many many times over on the private blog.

you're coming in at the end of the whole thing,

so you've brought up a lot of stuff most of the

newer people are thinking..

again, you REALLY don't want to see all the problems,

because then you'll want to try 'fixing them'... really,

you wouldn't how many times i've watched the 11 minute

red test reel, WITHOUT any color correction, and it still

looks amazing..  however, you can see the difference

a little color correction makes in the 'cleaning dirty frames'

thread.... i've been putting up both the original red reel,

and the color fixed versions with the dirt in them, to give

you an idea of what that would have looked like.. it would

be hard to watch an entire film that way...

later

-1

AntcuFaalb said:

Troyig88 said:

I really hope you don't crop to much.  To me,  more in the frame the better.  but Do understand your point.

I understand his point, of course.

However, less (or no) cropping would be helpful to someone wanting to do stabilization work on the grindhouse version.

relax, 

there's a lot of leeway with this, because i'll

be the one putting it out... they'll be a lot

more discussion and transparency about it.

because, honestly, not too many people will

want to see the rough/dirty cut of it..... 

there's a small audience sure...

but if it was huge, then we'd all still be watching puggo's 16mm

version which is my all-time favorite.. however, for most

people it's more of a curiosity instead of their main

version that they watch.

to give you an idea, most of the red test reel frames,

and video are completely uncropped at the sides and

edges...

later

-1

jero32 said:

I do think some people are forgetting that with a clean up process...there's always gonna be SOME "artistic" liberty. If you don't have the original filmmakers on hand to ask exactly what effect they wanted, you can't really say wether or not something was intended. So unless it affects the movie majorly it would make some sense to make it slightly easier on the eyes.

cropping also helps out with that.

and has been mentioned several times..

the video i'm watching is completely uncropped,

so i'm always seeing 5-10% more than what is

necessary to watch. including the border, edges,

and artifacts all around the sides of the pictures.

most of those weren't meant to be seen.

and are very distracting, even to me, and

i've put up with a lot of stuff!

i'm thinking they will also be cropped off in the

grindhouse versions too.

later

-1

snicker said:

Dunedain: Any automated process can perform outside of expectation. It happened with the first release of Gladiator on Blu-ray. Whatever software Paramount used interpreted fast-moving objects (arrows and fireballs) in the opening battle sequence as scratches and debris and attempted to remove them from the image with pretty ugly results.

You can see an example here:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=2243467&postcount=275

 

The only way to avoid this would be to clean up short segments and review the results for accuracy. These guys seem to know what they're doing though and everything looks fantastic so far but, sh*t, anything's possible.

thanks for the comments guys..

can you move this topic over to:

----------------------------------------

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Making-our-own-35mm-preservation-my-crazy-proposal/topic/5853/page/58/

or to the technical forum.. thanks..

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/forum.cfm/How-Tos-and-Technical-Discussions/forum/12/

later

-1

another look back,

and some of the secondary tests

on the red preview reel..

starting with the trash compacter scene,

kind of dark, but with more contrast:

===============================

https://vimeo.com/49232040

pw: OT

later

-1

Harmy said:

Here is a frame from the Jedi1.net scans and MV's screen photo recoloured to the colours of my reference source automatically using the colorlike avisynth plugin:

just watched your version on a bigscreen tv yesterday,

it matched our's pretty closely also... for some reason

watching it on a tv with different settings was quite

different from viewing it on a monitor....

i'm used to watching almost all my videos on monitors,

so it's just a matter of setting your color preferences

to match what you think is right.

later

-1

Dunedain said:

The opening to Star Wars looks excellent, great job to all on the project! =) Imagine the whole movie in 1080p once fully restored... :) :)

we're getting there..

i've watched parts of it like that..

did another review of the preview 0 version

yesterday night/morning..

=================================

so far have seen parts on 3 different monitors,

and now on a 56" samsung 1080p tv..

it looked different on each on them.. some seemed

bright, others seemed dark..

the tv viewing seemed to be the best, i'd have

to check what settings my parents use.. i only

have a 40" samsung 720p. which is actually

pretty decent also.

the colors looked a lot more vivid, and the sharpness

and detail were good too..

i've seen it on LG 24" widescreen 1080p monitor also.

but i guess i have to mess with the color settings

and temperatures on that also...

a lot of the difference is that when you watch it

up close on a monitor, you see a lot more of the

noise, dirt, scratches etc..

of course all of those disappear when you are watching

from far away on a large tv screen..

i do 95% of my movie/show/video watching on

computer monitors, and rarely do i turn on a television

(i don't watch tv shows unless they're downloads or dvd's)..

i own a bluray player on my computer, but not a hardware one.

my parents have a samsung one, so i'll use that for testing

the disc.. i might try to burn a test one later on to see how

it works out..

snicker: I agree with the general concern, but bear in mind that repairing scratches, nicks and other sorts of damage is standard when restoring a film. It's simply putting it back the way it was before it became damaged, restoring it to it's original appearance when the print was new (which is what we want, within the limits of the sources and tools available).

yeah, we're leaving whatever is on the print that's originally there,

so you will see how it looks.. again, the trailer is the best thing to

use as a measure of what it's going to be like.

 

It's totally different than applying digital noise reduction, which causes a loss in detail. It's quite possible to fix the scratches and various other forms of print damage and avoid DNR, and thus retain the very fine detail from the print, and keep the natural film-like quality in the final 1080p video. If you look at some of the best professional Blu-ray movies you can buy (Saving Private Ryan is a great example), this is exactly what they have done. They've taken scans from top-quality prints and transferred it to optical disk while leaving the picture alone, and not interfering with the wonderful natural detail of the 35mm film. And I'm sure negative1 and all those involved have that same goal, restore it back to new as best they can (within reasonable time limits for working on it), while retaining the excellent natural detail of the film. :)

since the version i'm watching is a lot more unpolished,

it's actually a LOT closer to film, if it was being projected

it would seem even moreso...although the preview i'm watching

has compression, a lot of it is not noticeable when i previewed it.

it will get a lot better in the final version..

i hit the maximum of 10 videos per day on vimeo.

i'll be posting most of the 11 minutes from our early

red test reel, and should have another clip up in awhile.

it takes about 1 hour per each one, due to their conversion

process for free users. good things come to those that wait.

later

-1

(ps: more clips:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/cleaning-up-dirty-frames-for-scenes/post/594977/#TopicPost594977

)

msycamore said:

This change/difference may surprise you, at least it did surprise me. A recomposite have taken place of this shot at some point,

first frame of the shot:

the one at the top is from the Special Collection LD, the 2nd is from GOUT. As you can see, the timing of the white spots/ships are different. Both Puggo Grande and Moth3r's bootleg match the Special Collection ('80's home video transfers) Puggo Krig is blown out making it impossible to compare, haven't watched anyone of the other sources out there yet. The composite we're seeing in the THX transfer (GOUT and Technidisc LD) is actually more crude - the first row of ships disappear and reappear for some frames, the other composite have some anomalies on the planet instead. When this change occured I have no idea, maybe for the '81 re-release. It never ends... ;)

here's our version, it matches the GOUT mostly..

--------------------------------------------------------------

later

-1

lurker77 said:

Going by the opening & ending shots, this project has gone from "promising" to "extremely promising". I can't declare "perfect", as the shots are compressed web videos on a not-perfectly-calibrated monitor, but I am quite excited none-the-less!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJk7990vSn8

 

body feels exit? ha ha

Three questions, which may have been answered at some point:

1. What resolution is cleanup being performed in?

 

actually it's in higher than 1080p, but then the final

results will be downsampled to 1080p, thus preserving

the most detail until the end.

2. What will the source of the sound be?

1) mono english - 2 reels from the red print, the rest reconstructed

from the mono restoration version

2) stereo  english - a combined soundtrack from some of the 35mm reels

with other sources

3) 5.1  english - again, an altered version based on hairy_hens

reconstruction

4) stereo spanish - all taken from the 35mm lpp print, with the han

shoots greedo scene spliced in from another source (because it's

in english)

3. At some point before the ACTUAL release, might you release at least ONE finished shot?

That's all from me until the next MAJOR news release...

well, maybe, but the trailer that we put up has plenty of shots

that are indicative of the quality in 1080p

later

-1

Trooperman said:

^^I love the very high contrast look of that, with all of the blown out whites (like the stormtrooper outfits).  It would have been shot with this in mind, the 3rd-generation release print.  Amazing how much better the effects seem to blend in in this version.

Exciting stuff!

cool,

you might also want to check out:

=========================

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/cleaning-up-dirty-frames-for-scenes/post/594850/#TopicPost594850

and

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/cleaning-up-dirty-frames-for-scenes/post/594870/#TopicPost594870

later

-1

and the final part of the

ben vs vader scene..

in glorious - rednicolor, uncropped

===========================

https://vimeo.com/49185527

pw: OT

and slightly cleaned up, and cropped:

============================

https://vimeo.com/49186757

pw: OT

and a combination of cropping,and joining

the two ben and vader scenes:

==============================

https://vimeo.com/49190666

pw : OT

later

-1

close the blast doors!!!

and ben kenobi meets vader!!!

here's the raw red take, uncropped:

==========================

https://vimeo.com/49179101

pw : OT

and a smoother, slightly color correct, cropped version:

=======================================

https://vimeo.com/49181595

pw : OT

later

-1

VideoPhonic said:

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't really asking/demanding for any clips and I totally see what you want this thread to be for. I have been looking at a lot of other threads and and the work you've been putting into cleanup, etc. and that has really done the job of illustrating to me what kind of work is being done to ultimately make this version presentable and all of your work whether it's just playing around with the red reel has thrilled me. It just has been fun for me to visualize a final version, but I know the wait will be worth it. I'll keep all talk of film cleanup work, etc. to the other threads and it makes tons of sense for you to want the project to stand on its own rather than unleash incomplete teases. I'm really looking forward to any/all updates and appreciate all that you're putting into this.......and all other posts by me will remain on topic. Thanks again. 

don't worry about it..

it's all good..

in fact, i have quite a few more test reel shots

coming up in the 'cleaning up frames', although

not the best quality, they are very cool from a 

nostalgic viewpoint to me.. and indicate how

far we've come from just the basic test shots

to our final product... in the end you'll have

seen about 10-15 minutes of footage from

that reel, and there's still more after that!

thanks again.

later

-1

(ps. hint, you might want to check out:

-------------------------------------------------

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/cleaning-up-dirty-frames-for-scenes/post/594827/#TopicPost594827

)

ok,

another sample from the red test reel,

where han, chewie, luke and leia split

up and confront the stormtroopers..

the sound sync is a little off..

and the colors look pretty strange, but

this was just a test!

it was only a test!

if it was the real colored version, you

would know!!!!!!!!!

================================

https://vimeo.com/49177870

pw : OT

later

-1

Trooperman said:

negative1 said:

there are sections that are ORIGINALLY shaky cam like

in the film, even with stabilization.. ... that stuff will be

mildly straightened out i think...

Isn't that part of the original camerawork though? 

i don't know.. i've only seen the original a handful of times.

i've watched the 16mm  - shaky, the laserdiscs - shaky,

the dvd's - not sure, and the blurays - not sure... and now

on film... 

it's hard to say if it's the transfer, or the actual footage?!

later

-1

ww12345 said:

Oh, OK. It sounded like it was completely unstable (no pun intended!) and I know that even when I am watching my own prints, unstable film can tend to make one nauseated! :D

there are sections that are ORIGINALLY shaky cam like

in the film, even with stabilization.. to me it's very noticeable

now, because i never paid attention to that stuff before

(like r2d2 going down the canyon)... that stuff will be

mildly straightened out i think...

if it is, you can check out the originals in the

grindhouse versions..

later

-1

VideoPhonic said:

These are incredible, I literally cannot wait to get a taste of these (or any other clips) in 1080p and 2.35:1! Keep up the amazing work , -1!

thank you to everyone for all the kinds words,

and comments... if you check out the very first

post and the next few comments i made..

but sorry, there won't be any finished shots or completed clips...

that's not the point of this thread... this is solely for the

release and details concerning it.

i only put these up there because they were pertinent

to the clean up.. you should check out the technical

section - for other frame clean-ups, or the difference

between the color timings in the SE forums...

there's no point in putting up completed footage here,

because we are still working on it, and there will be

a lot of complaints about things not looking 'right'.

we've been through this many times before, as

has harmy, dark_jedi, adywan, etc, etc, etc...

not trying to pick on you..

but just wanted to clarify the situation.

the movie will stand on it's own, and be what

we set out to do, in preserving it to the best

of its nature with the resources that we have.

later

-1

Trooperman said:

negative1 said:

due to the scenes being shot at different times,

and places.. there is discontinuity all throughout

the tatooine scenes.. they will be evened out in

our version though.

 

later

-1

Why even it out if that's the way it was cut together?  It sounds to me like that isn't a flaw on your print- just a side effect of the way "Star Wars" was actually filmed.  Maybe I'm being too much of a purist here...

our version doesn't have as much variation in the

color of those scenes..  the adjustment is a lot less

than you would think it is just going by our raw shots

in the previous link..

there WILL ALWAYS BE AJDUSTMENTS MADE BY PERSONAL

PREFERENCE OF THE person doing the color correction.

what you think is 'even' and what we think is 'even'

is up to what we will decide as to the nature of it.

since we're going to have grindhouse versions that

preserve the 'raw' color of the prints, you'll get to

see how those those scenes really looked, and if

you want, you could edit them back into the version

of your choosing..

later

-1 

ok,

and after all that,

we FINALLY come to the very end..

the last 3 minutes and 50 seconds of the

movie...

this is what it all comes down to..

the end credits:

====================================

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/cleaning-up-dirty-frames-for-scenes/post/594808/#TopicPost594808

well, i hope you enjoyed everything..

it's been fun here, and i really appreciate

everyone following along..

until next time!!!!!!!

may the force be with you.

later

-1

(oh wait, wasn't there supposed to be 

some other stuff in between there????? ha ha)

and the full version of the

cleaned up credits:

==================

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/cleaning-up-dirty-frames-for-scenes/post/594808/#TopicPost594808

later

-1

and the full cleaned up

version of the end credits:

=================================

https://vimeo.com/49162218

pw: OT

later

-1

han and chewy using windows 8

with a virtual machine..

(actually the article is about microsofts virtual machines):

=========================================

later

-1

snicker said:

Love that rating card. You guys are doing such amazing work with these transfers. It's a privelege being able to see how film is worked on, something 99% of us would never had had the opportunity to have seen without these updates. I'm quite envious.

thanks, it's a privilege to work on them,

and to work with people that care for them so much.

and also with people that have commented with all

the knowledge they have on the subject here on the

board.. that's why i keep putting links to all the other

sections, which people need to read and check to

learn more about these things...

if it wasn't for the knowledge on this board,

NONE of this would have happened.

and we'd still be sitting around wondering what

we could do..

later

-1

ww12345 said:

Will there be a stabilized version as well? I don't mind the no dirt cleanup, because that can be done after the fact, but it would be hard for others to stabilize the footage without the raw files... It's not hard to do in PFClean; if you need any help I'd be happy to help.

i should rephrase that..

of course the final version will be completely

stabilized..

i'm only talking about the grindhouse versions

here:

=================================

it is mostly stabilized.. but there are

sections that drift, and out of focus/pumping..

along with warped parts... it only totals a few

minutes in some of the reels.. but until we

replace/digitally fix them, they will stay that way...

i'm thinking there may also be a 'red' star wars

version way down the road, if we get a chance.

i would like to have all my reels preserved even

if we don't use them..

later

-1

and here we have

the end credits comparison

from the original...

which marks the end point

of what we will have..

============================

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/cleaning-up-dirty-frames-for-scenes/post/594772/#TopicPost594772

a full version is coming up..

later

-1