msycamore

dark_jedi said:

Has anyone listened to the audio commentary on the Gonzo & Cowclops V2 set? are they the same? is one better than the other? I was thinking(actually someone requested) about adding one of these to the audio line up, what does everyone think? hopefully if it is wanted it won't be much to sync...

Gonzo & Cowclops both use the commentary available on the '93 Definitive Collection LD's, don't know if one of them is in better quality than the other, I think the tracks were slightly cleaned up on some preservation discs, don't know which one. Those '93 commentary tracks are intermittent though, much time between the talks.

Thanks for the trouble Darth. :)

Those damaged frames on the Blockade Runner can also be seen in Moth3r's telecine bootleg and if you look close enough you can see that they are in the GOUT as well.

Moth3r said:

Can anyone help fill in the MattmanOmega and DJ V3 release details & screenshots? Also planning on adding Lee's technicolour project when complete.

I can fix the DJ V3 for you if someone else haven't done that already?

Just thought I would post these comparisons to make it easier for people to see how unique this LD of yours is.

JSC (V8)

Smear-free '93

Smear '93 (GOUT)

JSC (V8)

Smear-free '93

Smear '93 (GOUT)

JSC (V8)

Smear-free '93

Smear '93 (GOUT)

JSC (V8)

Smear-free '93

Smear '93 (GOUT)

JSC (V8)

Smear-free '93

Smear '93 (GOUT)

JSC (V8)

Smear-free '93

Smear '93 (GOUT)

JSC (V8)

Smear-free '93

Smear '93 (GOUT)

I'm still fascinated by this transfer that have largely gone unnoticed all these years, how would you say it compare against the JSC in terms of overall quality, mallwalker? I understand these screen-caps doesn't do it real justice. It seems like it losing quite alot of picture information on the sides though. One thing that have always been unique to the JSC transfer in terms of framing/cropping is this one:

It is the only transfer that I know of, that have the skyline visible in this shot. Even if it was never meant to be framed that way, this composition actually makes the shot seem more exciting and epic IMO. The much larger framing also reveal this thing from the film crew that drops into the frame for a second. Yeah, I know. I've seen these films too much for my own good. ;)

How do the smear-free '93 LD look in these shots? I'm curious.

Imperial Slug said:

I am using a portion of what I believe is a g-force script for ROTJ, but if you go to the end of my sample you can see the subtitles are too small and smack right in the center of the screen. I would like them appear as the do in the 480p conversion, but I don't know enough about Avisynth to resize them for 720p.  

You just need to fiddle around with these settings:

f_wid = 9
f_pos = 465
f_siz = 36

until you're happy with the results. In your case you should increase the values. Check this out: http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Subtitle

erri_wan said:

msycamore I love the simplicity of the cover and the fact that you used both exclusively Italian posters and writing. Italians would surely appreciate having a separate disc. I never thought about having separate disc and cover... if it doesn't happen I would still love to have it in my private collection so keep it saved somewhere because I'll ask for it in due time ;-)

I'm glad you liked it, but as I said, it's far from finished. About me using the Italian title, well this isn't the regular THX 1138, it's "The man who escaped from the future!" ;) did I get the translation right? Also is it one of those accent marks or something after the letter I in FUGGI?

And I just noticed it... take a close look at THX eyes on the Italian poster art on my cover and compare with Rogue's cover art... an alteration made by the artist perhaps?

erri_wan said:

Speaking of else, I don't think I ever told you guys but I once downloaded a THX preservation DVD (from laserdisc source) with printable cover through a link from imdb forum. The art cover was simple but nicely done, with a medicine cabinet on the front. Was anyone from this forum involved with that production? Do you need pics of the DVD that I burned and printed?

It sounds like it's the ANGRYSUN version by Rikter Blaksvn. IIRC he was a member here. It's a pretty nice cover.

LeeThorogood said:
Here is a question for you all. As a percentage how accurate/close to the colour timing of the Technicolor print would you say ANH from the '97SE is? Not taking the pinkness of Mos Eisley into account. ;)

In the theater it was very close to it in the scenes that were left intact I guess, but on video it's not, impossible to say, it's not only Mos Eisley that have a pink shift, there's also a heavy blue shift in some scenes, combined with lousy contrast levels. But some scenes do look damn good, just like I remember it, but they are few. Sad but true.

Rogue-theX, sorry but I really don't know how we are going to present this right now. But I'm leaning towards a separate disc for the Italian cut. I think that will be most fitting, it's only George Lucas who presents the main feature as an extra. ;) if you guys agree of course. I actually made this preliminary cover some time ago, it's far from finished though.

erri_wan said:

That interview is a priceless insight of George Lucas whom (for me) has changed from childhood hero to despicable character in the span of a few years.

Thanks for posting it.

You're welcome, and I know what you mean.

erri_wan said: 

As fot the PAL/NTSC... what's your thought? Are you planning to just use the NTSC source then or use the PAL for the EU version nonetheless?

Maybe I misunderstand your question now, but the plan is to just make one optimal NTSC version, then when it's finished someone can easily make a NTSC to PAL conversion if that is desirable.

Nerfherder said:

Could the PAL version be sharpened slightly, without introducing halos like the US capture?

That's a good question. But I think you would get even better results if you tried to reduce the halos on the US without making it too soft, take the first cap for example, where the details in the walls above the doorways are completely gone in the UK transfer, you can also see the sligthly clipped white levels on the lights above the robot.

I don't know, I guess we will have to experiment and test to see what is getting us the best results. Fortunately we have a lot to work with, thanks to you and Silver. :)

Moth3r said:

So I thought I'd take a closer look at the old WOW! montage, originally created for the THX WOW laserdisc and later included (in anamorphic widescreen) on the THX Ultimate Demo Disc (previously discussed here).

Check out this comparison for starters:

^ WOW!

^ GOUT

Two things are very clear: 1) the GOUT image is so desaturated it looks almost greyscale, and 2) the GOUT white levels are severely clipped - compare the overhead lights and the corresponding blob on the luma graph to the right.

More to come when I get a chance.

Yeah, it's good that you mention that, because it's something that doesn't get discussed very often when it comes to the GOUT and it's also one of the reasons the JSC LD- transfers are superior source material IMO, the clipped white levels of the GOUT and the crushed black levels of the 2004 DVD's is equally problematic. And both screw up the color values.

Ok, I don't know if I'm the last tester out or not, but I think it's pretty safe to let these beasts out now, d_j's V3 that is. I didn't notice any sync issues at all on any of the audio tracks, though I'm not as familiar with Jedi as with the other films, but everything sounds correct on that one as well.

Just to have the two 35mm Dolby Stereo mixes for Empire and Jedi synced to the GOUT on its own is a reason to get this set and a great gift to the SW-community. Well done, d_j! And let's not forget hairy_hen's beautiful reconstruction! :)

I also think you struck a quite good balance in the color tweaking of SW, I know this is already too late, but for Empire and Jedi I think you could've boosted the colors a little bit more without hurting the picture, maybe something to consider for your current project.

Unfortunately I must echo what the other reviewers have said about slightly overscanned menus, layer-breaks and chapter points issues, but that is minor things that you may be able to correct before uploading.

Thanks to everyone involved in this set, and to dark_jedi for compiling it all together! 

Ok, I received the UK transfer, Nerfherder kindly sent me. It was a pretty damn good capture, nice to see a transfer without the nasty edge-enhancement/haloing the other discs have. Unfortunately it is softer and much less detailed than its US/Japanese counterparts:

US

UK

US

UK

US

UK

US

UK

US

UK

As you can see, the UK transfer is also cropped differently than the US/Jap transfers, often losing quite a lot of picture information on all sides, which is unfortunate as the US/Jap transfers was quite badly cropped on the sides in some scenes to begin with. I will post more comparisons between all the different transfers from the various players later...

A quick update, I am currently encoding the Italian cut as I type so that one should be done quite soon, and I'll also send out copies of these fine LD-captures to dark_jedi, so that he can help me out with this as my lousy computer will take years to finish this project on its own. Thank you, d_j for helping out!

An April 8, 1971 review of THX 1138 in The Village Voice: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2010/11/thx-1138_george.php#more nothing exciting, but a vintage review of the original film nevertheless, something you don't see that often on the net.

A nice little interview with the hologram Don Pedro Colley conducted in 1999 or 2000 I think: http://www.lucasfan.com/thx1138/interv.html

ratpack1961 said:

So does the emperor not fade in on this print (if I was understanding a previous post correctly)?

He does, but not in Puggo's ESB Super 8 transfer which share a few visual differences with the 70mm cut.

A question to those in the know how, any ideas why I get a little pop/click in the beginning on my audio files when I transcode audio files with BeLight, I just used it to slow down the sped up audio on the Italian cut, the audio file comes out fine but there is a little audible click in the beginning.

Is it a bug in that program or what? Any thoughts or suggestions, maybe a different program or method is recommended?

That comparison list is not entirely complete and accurate though, we have in this thread also found out that the earlier transfers had green colored opening titles just as the '04 cut for example.

I have no idea if that has been attempted, but it could be kind of nice if someone had the editing skill to pull it off, blending LD footage with blu-ray footage doesn't sound like a good idea though, but a closer to original edit as you suggested could maybe be done succesfully.

There are however many more shots than those you described that isn't included in the 2004 cut, many flipped shots, alternate takes and dialogue and much digital manipulation going on in the scenes that are still there, so the situation is quite similar to that of the Star Wars trilogy.

Here's a nice comparison list: http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=541751

That first blockade runner Hybrid looks pretty damn good, impressive!

Yes, no problem, I do keep them well organized, with so many transfers it's a must so you don't end up crazy. ;) Sorry, forgot to mention it, those comparisons I posted were from your PR 8210 player which overall produced the best results IMO.

Now I just want to finish the Italian TV-cut, so I can begin work on these LD-transfers...

Yeah, it's not a huge difference but the US one will most definitely be the base, the Japanese is a little brighter and it also have clipped white levels in some shots, you can also see that it have some chroma noise of some sort in the first cap I posted, it appears in other shots as well.

doubleofive said:

You know, as much crap as we give the SE, they worked really hard on them.

Well, not as hard as the people whose shots are now replaced.

doubleofive said:

Sure, not all of the decisions were great, but they did good with what they were supposed to do.

I wonder if their boss George thinks so, maybe when the fourth attempt is done, he will finally be happy. ;)

A few examples of the quality difference between the LD's.

US

Jap

US

Jap

US

Jap

US

Jap

US

Jap

SilverWook said:

The 8210 ignores most of the minor defects and speckles on the US LD, but there are some gremlins that creep into the closing titles. (Look closely at the text and you'll see it.) I think it's the chroma or luma levels going over the limit or something. The Japanese fares only slightly better at the same spot, but on the other two machines both discs are fine with the credits.

I've never been able to figure out if it's an idiosyncrasy of this player, or certain video transfers are creeping past safe "peak" NTSC video levels on some shots. (And more modern players compensate better?) For example, the shot of the Lunar shuttle being lowered into the Moonbase in 2001, which is bathed in red light, really suffers from the same problem.

Yeah, I noticed those artifacts on the closing titles, weird it doesn't show up elsewhere in the film (not what I've seen). Anyway, this is why it's so great that you did several different caps. :) Overall, the US LD is definitely the better transfer, the colors are richer, better contrast and even less edge-enhancement in some scenes, the US LD from your PR8210 player looks pretty damn good actually, much better than I thought this would. I think we will be able to squeeze out a nice looking DVD from these. :)

SilverWook said:

The other 8210 hassle is the "rolling bar" video noise that is easily seen on a black background. It's largely invisible during most of the film though.

I don't think that "rolling bar" video noise will be a real issue, as you said it's largely invisible most of the time and maybe it will be even less visible when the black level has been improved.

erri_wan said:

I found the error that SilverWook noticed in the subs.

SilverWook and msycamore, please open the srt file with notepad and change this line:

00:56:17,356

with this:

00:56:18,356

it will correct the "glitch"

Will do, thanks erri!

IIRC it has already been confirmed that this is the regular 35mm cut, and those hologram scanlines were always there, you just cannot see them on the GOUT due to the shitty transfer, the irony is that they're visible on the DC LD.

I believe Adywan used '97SE footage to reconstruct that scene, that's why it's not affected by that problem.

Love those screen-caps Puggo! :)

Interesting observations, I haven't gotten the time to check out your subs yet. I'm currently in the process of checking out the quality differences in SilverWooks LD captures that recently arrived safely to cold Sweden. :)

I'll try to post examples between the various captures so you all can see when I get the time. It's not hard to understand that Silver got a little THX- burned out, I have both the Jap and US LD's captured on three different players sitting on my computer, that is 6 different captures of this film to go through! A big thank you SilverWook! you did a damn fine job!

I know that you earlier thought the Japanese LD would probably be the base for this, but my first impression is actually that the US LD captured on your 8210 is the one, but this could of course differ from scene to scene, haven't studied it that close yet.

Also, dark_jedi have offered to help out with this, which is great, as he have the experience and knowledge I lack when it comes to LD preservation. :)