I only have it in lossless PCM-format, doesn't d_j's v3 DVD have a fairly low bitrate AC-3 track of it otherwise?
Easterhay said:
Does it depress me? As a fan since 1977, no it doesn't. Serious things depress me, like the question of whether I will always be able to provide for my family, or the thorny issue of shooting unarmed terrorists because there isn't enough evidence to convict them in court, but does the fact that the older versions of some favourite films won't see the light of day on Blu-Ray depress me? No, course it doesn't.
Should they be available? Well, maybe as works-in-progress or from a curio's point of view, then perhaps. The fact that I haven't seen the originals since nineteen-oh-spit probably speaks volumes on my perspective on this most trivial (in my mind) of issues.
Beautiful comparisons you're making, you do realize you're posting on a SW-site? There are more important issues out there, yes, so why even bother to come here posting on such a "trivial" issue as film preservation? you should be out there on the streets right now demonstrating about more important things in life.
Harmy said:
I'd like to include the 77 stereo mix (anyone got it?).
I can upload it for you, if no one else have already.
Of course, I'll send you a short sample. Thank you. :)
Harmy said:
Well, I'll see when I finish my SW projects. I suppose I'll want a break first :-)
Is the white spot moving at all? If not, it should be fairly easy to remove in AE.
Yeah, I'll also need to finish this first, and... we don't even know if you're going to like this film. ;)
Harmy said:
Is the white spot moving at all? If not, it should be fairly easy to remove in AE.
It's fairly static, I actually thought that would make it harder? MeBeJedi are using Combustion, I think. If he doesn't succeed, maybe you would be able to help out with your magic skills.
You could also include this shot of the holograms as well.
Original
Digitally recomposited in the 2004 DVD
No problem erri_wan, take your time.
Harmy, that's not a bad idea at all, I have actually had my thoughts about such a thing, and I would gladly assist you if such a project would come to fruition. :)
I know it's moving slowly, sorry for that. I will get this done.
I am currently IVTC-ing the LD-captures, and I have sent MeBeJedi the problematic footage (a white speck stuck in the frame for about 13 minutes), hopefully he will be able to get rid of it.
Harmy, your post makes me even more motivated. ;)
erri_wan said:
Msycamore I sent you the final version of the text via mail. It's in a word document attached. Let me know if you get it (and if you got my previous one).
Yeah, I got them. Thanks.
erri_wan said:
For the preservation of the mistakes... Leonardo seems to agree with you msycamore. He would like it mistakes-and-all. I could even go with it, preservation all the way, but I still find it a bit weird to leave the infamous "foetus" lines. I leave the decision to you people (although Leo practically convinced me already).
I'll prepare the "corrected" subtitles in the meantime because I already know what you are gonna say ;-)
Preservation all the way then?
I would say it is one part of what makes this version unique, so preservation all the way. ;)
erri_wan said:
Such errors cannot be preserved, they are way too blatant. Not the "foetus" one at least!
Yes, they can. ;) Do not worry, if you guys don't want me to, I'll just do it for my own viewing pleasure.
Harmy said:
Looks interesting. I'm gonna have to check it out tomorrow when I'm nor´t so drunk and can actually focus on it.
Ah, that sounds nice, I envy you.
doubleofive said:
So should we remove the garbage matte fixes that are just color issues?
I can also understand that you want to preserve the official comparisons, didn't you have them separately stored before?
This shot was recomped in 2004:
(the easisest way to spot it, is the different timings/positions of the TIE's)
The 2004-wipe for this shot look almost identical to the '97-wipe this time.
(notice the slightly different position of the composites in the '04-DVD)
'97 SE - timed against your comparison:
The actual wipe look the same, it is just that the Yoda-footage is slightly bigger and in a different position compared to the footage of the Stardestroyer.
This shot was remade for the 2004 DVD and is not on your list:
these two aren't synced up though, the thin purple lasers were green in earlier transfers, and in the '97 SE as well. (another GOUT-flaw)
And that change makes another wipe needed...
'97 SE - timed against your comparison::
This one could be a 2004 change, I wasn't able to tell because of the horrible motion-smear on my '97-source.
I checked all of these and they are incorrectly marked, the garbage mattes were not eliminated from these in '97, if they ever was:
And they're still left in the 2004 DVD in these shots, you just don't see them unless your equipment is calibrated wrong. ;)
Harmy said:
They redid this wipe because that shot was recomposited in 2004 as well. Look at the edges of the officers face - you can see the blue spill in the original and 97SE. He's also slightly cropped on the edges, which could mean that they didn't have the original elements for this scene and simply rotoscoped a new starfield behind them while slightly cropping the edges to get rid of the blue spill.
I see, that explains it. ;) the starfield in this particular shot looks like the original in terms of the positioning which made me doubt it a little. There's probably more of these redone wipes where they recomped stuff for the DVD...
Btw. that StarDestroyer bridge - shot, may go to history for the most crushed black levels I have ever seen in a transfer ever! :)
doubleofive said:
Thanks for that! Helps out a lot!
I'll take wookieegroomer shots of those frames and add your 97s.
Do it, it's unfortunate that the 97s are so heavily cropped though.
I lined up the wipes and checked them for you, they have been redone twice. I didn't resize them in case you wanted to use them.
Original
1997 SE
2004 DVD - the reason why they redid this wipe? maybe because the scene it wipes to were completely redone in the computer.
Don't know how good these examples below are, all three wipes are extremely close in terms of timing
Original
1997 SE
2004 DVD - the reason why they redid this wipe? I have no idea, I know the scenes before it had recomposited starfields in some shots and they colorized the rank badge etc. but why redo this wipe?
Harmy said:
Another thing: I wouldn't quite trust the garbage matte removal presented in the official comparisons. I think that some of the matte boxes are gone simply due to the increased contrast and crushed blacks of the 04 version, not due to any conscious garbage matte removal but whoever did the official changes (and I doubt it was anyone who actually worked on the SE and it was quite possibly someone who doesn't even know how these things actually work) just saw the matte boxes in the GOUT and not in the 04SE, so he/she decided that it must be a deliberate fix.
Here is one of the "garbage matte removal" shots from your comparisons and the third picture is the GOUT picture, simply adjusted to approximately the same brightness and contrast levels as the SE. Similarly to the SE half of the stars are gone and so are the garbage mattes.
Furthermore, it is marked as a 1997 change, but to be honest, I seriously doubt that they digitally tweaked any shots just to remove garbage mattes in 97. If anything, it would have been much easier in 2004 when they were working completely in the digital realm.
Yes, you can see the garbage mattes in that shot in the '97SE, and I fully agree with you, have they actually cleaned up garbage mattes in any scene in the trilogy at all, that we know of? It's only gone when they have actually gone back and recomped them. It's easy to spot all the mattes by just turning up the brightness on the DVD-release and then you could remove many of the so called improvements on that list.
To read the comments for the official list of changes makes you want to punch the guy who wrote it in the face. ;)
I have been thinking, these two mistakes erri_wan pointed out in the Italian dubbing...
erri_wan said:
There were a couple of things I didn't translate from Italian because they clearly were mistakes.
When THX is looking for LUH on the computer, a voice says that LUH has been destroyed and regenerated (whatever that means) with the new name of FOETUS, they thought foetus was her new name??? In English of course it says that LUH has been "consumed" and name "reassigned" to a foetus.
Another correction that had to be made was to this "approaching Expressway 300" dubbed as "approaching Expressway 3%" (I guess they didn't understand that it was the Expressway number 300, and not a degree of approach. Using the percentage doesn't make sense anyway)
do we really want them corrected in the English subs? When I think about it, I actually want them preserved, as I'm not an Italian guy, I will only look at this version as a curiosity anyway and I think it would be nice to see all the dubbing errors preserved, so that you can really see what a shoddy treatment this film got in Italy. It's more understandable if you want these errors corrected for an Italian subtitle stream and when you're attached to this cut of the film.
Let me know what you think?
skyjedi2005 said:
Does anyone have the original presskit, or pressbook ?
That would be interesting to see scanned.
I do just have a couple of pages scanned but it's the most relevant part of the book. It was up on ebay a few months ago with pics that were readable, I posted the missing pages in that auction here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations/post/455148/#TopicPost455148 If you're interested to read it.
skyjedi2005 said:
Were Lucas to release a restored version of the oot on blu ray, or in the cinemas would the divided fanbase be reconciled.
Would George be forgiven for the special editions and prequels ?
People would be able to enjoy these masterpieces of cinema again. Forgiveness? that's quite silly, I know he has taken a crap over and over again on the SW-brand for over a decade, but I couldn't care less about that if I were able to just watch the films I do like.
NTSC GOUT: 1:52:09
This beautiful shot were also cleaned up for the DVD release not the '97 SE.
Happy birthday! Only 34 years old but already undergone so many cosmetic surgeries she is barely recognizable anymore...
erri_wan said:
LOL who censored the nipple??? Damn!
eMoviePoster.com did. ;) It would've been nice using this poster art for a second cover, but it seems impossible to find a good hi-res of it.
Here's another one:
It's cool erri.
I've found yet another nice original 1976 release poster done by Averardo Ciriello:
It was a big (140 x 198 cm) two-panel poster, which means that it was printed in 2 sections. The same art that was used for the smaller ones...
unfortunately I haven't found it uncensored and in better quality. :(
Here you are also able to see the full artwork on the other one posted in this thread: http://www.film.tv.it/film/9117/l-uomo-che-fugga-dal-futuro/foto/2/ Don't know if that one was done by Ciriello though. Probably video poster/cover.