msycamore

Original wipe:

SE wipe:

Original wipe:

SE wipe:

In this shot they also digitally tweaked the skiff and its shadow which Luke and company are standing on, it now has a hovering effect, it was static in the original:

It seems to me that the lightsaber was recomposited in various shots:

The digital compositing for Ben's scenes was done for the 2004 DVD, not the '97 SE:

I would suggest that you remove these two, as nothing have actually been done:

erri_wan said:

Have you got any screens of the menu? I'm just very curious to see them

No I trashed it in furious anger! ;)

At least the avi file you provided have gotten its aspect ratio fixed, audio sync correction on the opening of the film, filtered in VirtualDub to smooth out the worst artifacts, converted to NTSC and beautifully translated by you so that we non Italian speaking people can enjoy it. It still look worse than a VHS-transfer but at least it can be watched in this state.

Ok, the Italian Cut is now up on MySpleen. The bad news is that I wasn't able to make a Menu as I desired for this one, so I opted to have the Subtitles - off by default, so you have to turn them on with your remote. :( I'm sorry but I have struggled with it and I'm going crazy, I couldn't figure out the damn subtitles to work with it. Maybe I could have solved it if I had worked a little more with it as I have never done Menus before, but my patience is totally gone for the moment and I feel that I have worked longer on this version than I wanted to in the first place, I really want to get going with what I think is more important - The LD - caps.

If you want to watch a rare, weird and different version of THX 1138, jump on it. If you're after audio and video quality, stay away. ;)

Just give me a PM if you need an invite to MySpleen.

SilverWook said:

Refresh my memory as to where I uploaded the SEN clip last time, and I'll put this up right away.

http://www.sendspace.com/

Thanks. :)

erri_wan said:

where would we put the 16mm version in possession of SilverWook? Is that the same of the German-TV broadcast? Is there a way to date that 16mm reel?

Yes, like I wrote in the info and what is said on that German comparison site, the TV-broadcast appears to share the same editing SilverWook's print have. The only thing I find weird other than its editing is that how the heck could they air that version on TV in West Germany the same year the Restored Cut got its theatrical re-release in US, the guy I spoke with on Cult Movie forum said it was aired in UK that same year IIRC, but which version that was, he obviously didn't remember.

As both those versions (TV-broadcast, 16mm) have the restored scenes included, they can obviously not be older than '78 as that was the year Lucas was able to finally restore those scenes. But it is the extended footage of Pleasence and different order of scenes in those two versions that doesn't make any sense at all and makes my head explode.

SilverWook said:

I have a plugin for firefox that does that. It saved as a 4 meg mp4 file. It's kind of blocky full screen though.

Maybe ask the guy who posted it nicely, and we could get a better copy? 

Yeah, I thought about that, could you please send me that saved file though?

tonoise said:

Around 20 Minutes into the film, there is this kind of auditorium with spectators "following" a sound bouncing back and forth from left to right.

Now, the english subtitles say that the sound heard is actually a sentence, that LUH had said to THX in a scene before this, when she talks about that they are being watched: "I can feel it" But this sound really doesn't sound like language one could understand and as far as I know this hasn't been in the script. However, the idea that the surveillance system in the society of THX uses its recorded sounds to play it back in a kind of spectacle somehow seems to makes sense to me. So I am really wondering if I can use that to support my thesis on what is going on there or if this was just some subtitle guy going wild...

Hi tonoise, I would guess it is a subtitle error, there's nothing in that scene that sounds like dialogue to my ears, the closed captioning describes a bouncing ball, where as the regular foreign tracks seems to have picked up the same error, most likely due to being based on the English subtitle stream. That's my take on it, even though I can understand your thoughts on it. Is the new Blu-ray subtitled the same way?

Good luck with your essay on the Sound Design.

Thanks.

Moth3r said:

While searching at various home cinema forums I found this:

which suggests that although mono should come from the centre speaker, some people prefer to use the front left & right. But I also saw this thread where someone who describes himself as an acoustical engineer says that this can cause unwanted effects.

I wonder which release of The Terminator that is? My NTSC DVD released in 1997 or '98 have basically the same info but instead of the last third segment it just says: "It is compatible with all current playback equipment." The audio on it is actually something so rare as a 2.1 mono track, and it sounds fantastic on my system, if only the video quality was that good. ;)

Interesting to see how differently affected the PAL and NTSC masters are by the DVNR, SW may have the most standout problematic sequences, but IMO Empire is the worst affected overall, it have motion trailing in almost every goddamn scene, at least in the NTSC master. That horrible bridge shot does look much better in the GOUT though.

Having problem viewing this page: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations/topic/11741/page/30/ can't scroll down any further than post 744? Can it be solved, please.

Thanks.

I recognize that voice as well... also heard it in other trailers. I think it was a damn nice trailer, not as cheesy as the original 1971 trailer. Would be nice to have in better quality, any recommended software for saving such streaming videos on the net?

EDIT: Why the heck can't I view the complete page, can't scroll further down than post 744 of this page!!

TV's Frink said:

This thread has gotten even more nerdy than usual the past few days. ;-)

It doesn't matter, this isn't Star Wars coming to blu-ray anyway, just a badly played cover. ;)

I agree with both of you, zombie and Moth3r. Many mono films were definitely not played through just one speaker in the cinema, but the thing with Dolby Digital 1.0 Mono tracks is, if you spread that out to several speakers in your modern home theater set-up, you can get a sort of unnatural sound where the dialogue in particular is hard to locate, almost like your speakers wasn't phased correctly.

dark_jedi said:

Moth3r said:

zombie84 said:

Mono is sent to the centre channel because, being only one channel, it would be weird if it sent it to the left, or to the right. But in a theatrical setting, you aren't hearing it from one speaker at the front of the house. It is playing through many speakers so as to encompass the full room with front-facing sound. This is why, in a home theatre setting, it is appropriate to send it to all your forward-facing speakers, but namely the left and right which are accoustically positioned to fill your listening space.

I don't believe this is the case. A 1.0 mono soundtrack should play solely through the centre channel (on a film - mono music may be different). The centre channel is normally output by the centre speaker - unless your system doesn't have one, in which case a "phantom centre" is created by outputting the sound through both front left and right speakers.

I suppose it depends on room size to a degree. But again, in any sort of concert or theatre environment, there is no single centre speaker that provides audio for the entire room. Centre-default plays to the reality of one-channel audio, in that it is the most appropriate position if one speaker represents one channel, but it betrays the ideal listening experience. Your left and right speakers will be better manufactured as well, even if your centre channel is of high quality--the left and right are always the best speakers in the set-up, and the ones designed for the widest and furthest sound dispersal.

This is incorrect as well. The centre speaker is the most important speaker in a 5.1 set-up - it accounts for 50% of the soundtrack, as well as nearly all dialogue. It would not make sense to have the centre lesser specified than the front L & R speakers.

Thanks M, this is exactly how I understand it all to work as well, damn I was about to go up to Primetime here and start asking about my Home Theater set up LOL.

 Damn, I discovered that my receiver behave the same way as yours with 2.0 mono as well. My memory of it was that I had to force it to the fronts but that wasn't the case. ;)

If that is more convenient for you erri, sure. You did provide this rare version in the first place. No need to send me any blanks, single layer - DVD's are so cheap anyway, just PM me your address and I'll send it to you.

Managed to find the 1978 re-release trailer! I had never seen it before. :)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9sh71_thx-1138-re-release-trailer_shortfilms

Thanks erri!

It's 3,05GB, a little larger then it should've been... I'll let you know when it's up.

none said:

Harmy wrote: Guys, you won't believe this shit!!!

Wallpaper!  (1920x1088)

Incredible... released this way on DVD three times, right? They should be proud of themselves. :)

Hmm, can't remember where I've read about when exactly the mono prints debuted... have to find that.

From the 2004 DVD audio commentary Ben Burtt says:

...the first mix done was a two-channel stereo Dolby mix wich hadn't been done before, it was a new process. That mix was done first because we were actually making prints and testing them out, and getting theaters to tune up their equipments required that mix was done first. After that was done, then a six-track stereo mix was done for the 70mm release of the film and of course going back and mixing the film a second time, one make changes, you take things a little further you've learned from the first mix of the movie and you now go and make all your changes in the next mix wich was the six-track...

I think the above quote along with the minor additions and differences in the six-track mix which also appears in the mono mix confirms that the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix was done first, but the 70mm six-track which was derived from the same source was first out the door... It makes no sense to remove certain sound effects in the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix then add them again for the mono if it was the second mix.

Anyway, I find this all very fascinating. The revised credits are a little bit of Star Wars history that have gone largely unnoticed. :)

none said: 

I see in my last post I didn't really explain the connections fully.  When paying attention to the audio changes in conjunction with this credit change, they sync up with each other.  The Mono Mix has the 'refined' credits, 16mm and bootleg.  While the Dolby Stereo has the 'draft' credits.  So since the audio differences were identified as opening day things, then this credit probably follows along.

So the weird thing now is, you would think since the 'refined' current credit version that it would have taken it's audio counterpart along to 'current' status, but it hasn't.  The Mono Mix has been excised.  Was the Mono Mix created last or all three being worked on simultaneously? 

I can understand if they made the "refined" credits at the time when they were making new prints when the popularity grew or for foreign versions, but exclusively for the prints with the mono mix... why even have Dolby System on those prints? was Dolby compatible with Academy mono prints?

doubleKO said:

Do you actually have a flat version of the six-sheet at that quality?

Yes, the pic I posted are from that one, the six-sheets were however split up due to the size and they're also impossible to find without fold marks as they were folded already at the factory but it's nothing a little photoshopping can take care of. (They don't display the complete Tom Jung artwork though.)

doubleKO said:

The one-sheets all look a bit more "processed" from what I've seen, or does that just depend on the quality of the scan/photo?

I don't really get what you mean by processed but probably a combination of the quality of scan/photo and the fact that they are different pressings of the artwork at different size, there is even a different look between different pressings of the one-sheets. And many of them you see are bootlegs, many collectors say that it's almost impossible to find authentic style A that has not been folded.

Yeah, the dolby logo were more a case of me ruling out a possibilty of mixed up reels. And yes, the mono mix was created last, it wasn't until later in June if I recall correctly, that version first saw the light.

Btw, nice job with the pictures of the various credits.

livserge, Puggo Grande and Moth3r's bootleg transfer probably contain the first version of the credits.

I think I'll just go with this:

...but the story differences and concepts that occur in the dubbing are more likely liberties taken by "Società Italiana Distribuzione Films" which was the distributor for it in Italy, or by the dubbers that worked on the film.

so if I can just get an updated Italian translation of this, I'll be happy.

So where would be the best place to upload this for you, myspleen or demonoid perhaps? let me know...

I guess we can also rule out the possibility of it being a '81 revision just by going on the Dolby System logo, I'm not sure exactly when it became known as Dolby Stereo, but at the time of Ridley Scott's Alien in '79 it was already in place, so if they had made new credits for the '81 re-release it would most likely had Dolby Stereo on it.

These two Dolby System logos also have a variation in the font used for "Making Films Sound Better", "Noise Reduction - High Fidelity", but I think these two logo variations were in use at the same time. The one on the 2006 DVD is seen on most posters for the film at the time, even teasers.

dark_jedi said:

Moth3r said:

1.0 tracks default to the centre speaker because that is the ideal way to hear them.

That is what I thought, so my system is playing these correctly, DD 1.0 mono goes to my center, DD 2.0 mono goes to my front left & right towers.

Of course, I described it a few pages back already: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-coming-to-Blu-Ray-UPDATE-May-4th-2011/post/510088/#TopicPost510088

Edit: I am even impressed your system not automatically steer 2.0 mono tracks to the center, most do.

2nd Edit: Damn, I discovered my receiver do exactly the same. ;)

So is/was C.D. and C.D.S. two different dubbing companies in Italy?

The colors do look very good on that Silver, impressive collection of prints made for TV-broadcasts, THX seems to be in a similar box.

The thing about those Dolby 2.0 mono tracks is that if you have your pro-logic decoders play them, it automatically steer it to the center if you not force it to the L+R, which makes it confusing for people not in the know how, especially when discs by Universal even display the two-speaker configuration on the back of most of their cases.