msycamore

zombie84 said:

I was going to say, maybe it means that the negative tear was ripped after the 82 and JSC transfers were made, but then Puggo's transfer has it.

Yeah, it's especially weird when it seems to have been there from the very beginning going by none's post on that page I linked to. The tears are present in Puggo's Swedish print and Moth3r's bootleg as well, they were definitely there on opening day or should I say in '77. I really wonder what those videoreleases in the eighties was sourced from?

You have images of it here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Smear-free-93/post/480671/#TopicPost480671

It's still a little mystery how the source which the '82 videorelease and JSC was taken from not have them.

doubleofive said:

 

msycamore said:

zombie84 said:
I may have an answer.

Wasn't that the one shot with that really big negative tear on it? If so, they would have replaced it with a duplicate material, maybe the IP, which might have had slightly tighter framing just from being copied.

Could be the case, but those frames in the GOUT are pretty fucked up by the DVNR, maybe that's why you have the difference, motion trailing.

Looks significantly moved to the right to me.

 

Yeah, I was just about to edit my post, I misunderstood what was really the case, I thought it was Threepio that was somehow moved in frame going by none's comparison on last page, not the framing. My bad. ;)

zombie84 said:

I may have an answer.

Wasn't that the one shot with that really big negative tear on it? If so, they would have replaced it with a duplicate material, maybe the IP, which might have had slightly tighter framing just from being copied.

Could be the case, but those frames in the GOUT are pretty fucked up by the DVNR, maybe that's why you have the difference, motion trailing.

Nice to see that, the DVD format was really shitty when it came to subtitles.

zombie84 said:

Before I post the spread I just want to clean it up a bit. I also have a couple questions

-Ben at the tractor-beam matte painting: unchanged in the SE?

-Greedo and Han: is it just the one shot of them firing, or did they delete, shorten or alter the shot of Greedo exploding? The album just lists the wideshot of them firing but I thought there was more.

-Finally: we really only identified that one shot of Luke in the cockpit? Isn't that shot repeated twice?

Yes, that is one of the few matte paintings still left untouched. It seems Mr. Ellenshaw wasn't good enough. However, the blue force field could've possibly been recomped, I don't know.

Doesn't the Han/Greedo sequence miss a few frames either before or after the spliced in shot?

Another thing that could've been recomped is the beacon/glow effect from the Sandcrawler when threepio calls for help. Haven't checked it myself.

The old pan & scan transfers could maybe be helpful when spotting the more well made recomposites.

Nice technical breakdown of all the changes btw.

WhatsMyName said:

Master Sifo-Dyas said:

At this point, no change seems impossible. He changed Luke's line on Dagobah "You're lucky you don't taste very good", so removing/changing "You could use a good kiss" doesn't seem unrealistic.

He made the Ewoks blink, so why not do the same to TaunTauns? *shrugs*

 The Tuan Tuans did blink. forgot to add the Ewok part. You only saw it once or twice since they only do a close up of the Tuan Tuan once.

And yea, Han's line, i hope i didn't hear it or it was my Blu ray plater, because that was a funny line to end on.

The animatronic Taun Taun actually blinked in the original film, maybe that is what you're seeing.

It would be interesting to hear how the thoughts went when they timed these sequences.

fucked up

back to normal

fucked up

back to normal

normal

back to fucked up

color is gone

color is back

Or how about these.

Decrease the gamma and add purple to the spark

I want the image to be devoid of color here except make the clothes of the Jawa purple

Should Vader's lights in his belt be green or do you want them to be blue instead?

No, make them blue in this shot instead

And on and on, you could easily fill an entire book with all the errors in these transfers.

Cuchulainn said:

Obviously. I should have mentioned Jung before the Hildebrandts. Didn't he do the Empire and Jedi posters too?

Yes he did, but not the style a release posters, but ironically the poster Roger Kastel did for Empire was based on the iconic Gone with the Wind poster made by Tom Jung. Kastel also made the iconic poster for Jaws. A dead art form...

doubleofive said:

Harmy said:

Might it actually be a thing to consider making a separate list for each release? Original Release and re-release alterations, 97SE, 2004SE, 2011SE.

I'm not sure about that, but if I did, I'd want all of the changes that started in 97 to be from the 97 SE, and the source I have isn't strong enough, nor would I want to redo all of those wipes...

The source for the originals aren't that strong either, but I actually think your lists in their current state are pretty damn good as they are and are easy to follow.

Cuchulainn said:

It's mind-boggling that a film series that started out with such beautiful and iconic artwork (McQuarrie's production paintings and the classic Hildebrandt poster art) has degenerated to images that (as someone said elsewhere on the boards) look like they were painted by the same guy who illustrates those religious pamphlets. 

Don't forget Tom Jung's classic artwork which was emulated by the Hildebrandt's in a more comic book style (which is seen in your avatar). ;) In the end I don't think this blu-ray set deserve such great artwork, save that for the real movies.

They exists, his Panasonic which is a PAL-model and not that expensive can record both PAL and NTSC signals and I think many Pioneer models also can. Thanks for the link, wonder if it can handle NTSC...

When you only have so few tapes to digitize like I do, maybe it would be more worth it to send them in to get it done professionally after all.

It's a fairly new Panasonic model a friend of mine owns, don't know exactly which model it is without checking. I recently captured my Technidisc LD of SW on it and I wasn't satisfied with the results on that one either. It would certainly be nice to have a recorder in your caliber but it also seems hard to find recorders accepting both NTSC and PAL. Is there JVC models out there that can handle both?

SilverWook said:

Can you be more specific? It sounds like the tape might be the problem if you've tried three different VCR's.

The tape I tried with is in great condition and almost never used, it was a tape containing old Super-8 footage transferred professionally that I have wanted to preserve for a long time. I tried another tape as well with the same results, the three VCR's I used aren't the best players out there but in the end I think it is the DVD recorder and its combfilter that is at fault as it produced a very unsatisfactory picture. :(

PreserveOurHeritage said:
BTW: there is a someone who may have already done a high quality scan of a 35mm print.  Mike Verta recently posted this drool inducing still on his forum:

http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/SW_SP_R1.001658.png

That appears to be nearing 4k resolution and has outstanding detail.

The resolution is outstanding on that still, but it also seems completely devoid of filmgrain.

^^Nice!

I gave up the thought of purchasing this one after I saw the quality of a tape I tried to digitize yesterday, I tried it on three different players and the results were really bad. I'm afraid I simply do not have the proper equipment for doing this kind of preservation work worthwhile.

timdiggerm said:

Yeah, but it's not the version we'd actually like to see released. The missing Falcon dish is evidence enough that it's not quite the finished product. In the world of software (which is where I work), it'd be 0.9 or something.

Well, the fact is that the 70mm and 35mm versions were both released to the public in 1980, so in that sense they were both finished products, it's two cuts of the same film which was enjoyed by millions of people. Both are important IMO. Just the audio mix on the 70mm cut on its own is a huge part of its importance. There's still a missing radar dish on the Falcon in Star Wars as late as 2011...

Many people fell in love with at the time so called "final mix" for Star Wars which was the mono mix in '77, but have never been able to enjoy that on a video release after all these years, but if they would only release Star Wars with at the time seen by its creator as the final mix I would be disappointed because I fell in love with the earlier Dolby Stereo. So, I would definitely like to see both cuts of Empire preserved just like I would like to see all three original mixes on Star Wars preserved.

DarthLucas said:

No one has seen the 70mm version outside of that initial release. I consider myself a pretty big fan and I wasn't even aware of its existence until a few years ago. The current version is what everyone knows as ESB.

You could say this about the '97 release as well which basically is just another step in the evolution of the films as Lucas see it, the difference is that homevideo was around when that happened, but many people took those "unfinished products" to their heart and would like to see them on a modern format.

DarthLucas said: 

BTW I think there is another audio change in ANH.

Luke now clearly says "BUT its not impossible" in the Rebel briefing. In the original it seems the "but" was partially cutoff in the audio.

 

I know this thread is for visual changes but I wanted to see if anyone can confirm.

Luke say "but it's not impossible..." in the original Dolby Stereo mixes at least, not sure about the Mono or how it is in subsequent versions. Edit: He starts the line with "but" in all three original mixes but like you said it's not something clearly audiable, misunderstood your question. Not heard the latest mix.

doubleofive said:

I don't know... I'd like to kind of keep it to Special Edition changes

Yeah, I can see that, but as you included the '81 re-release change, I thought why not. But I understand your choice, it would really be more suitable for a separate list/article.

Ok, I'll try it out. Thanks again. :)

It's very nice and sort of unreal seeing these scenes after all these years, the ones from Empire are definitely the highlights IMO, especially liked Fisher and Hamill's scene in the medical center, damn how lovely young Fisher looked. Considering the often corny dialogue they had to work with I think Hamill, Ford and Fisher did a damn good job with the material they had to work with, the chemistry between those actors were a big part of why these films worked. I've always liked the performance of Garrick Hagon as Biggs in those Toshe Station - scenes, he really pull off that character and make him seem real even with a cape and sometimes silly dialogue, he did a great job. But I understand why all these scenes were cut, they're all nice on their own but they don't belong in the films, they did the right choice IMO.

I'm actually surprised they were presented in HiDef, that was really nice, but how ironic to have scenes cut from the movies presented in high definition but the actual films are still stuck in laserdisc resolution. Must be the first time in history of motion pictures something like that happen.

Yeah, I didn't give them my real one, probably why it didn't work.

Tried to place an order but for some reason that site doesn't accept my Social Security Number, it just gives me an error.:(

Maybe you could include the differences in the 70mm cut of Empire for completeness sake, at least those we have visuals of.

The hologram of the Emperor is already present in the first shot, it does not tune in gradually.

70mm

35mm

When Luke falls from Cloud City into the Millennium Falcon, the Falcon's radar dish is not added to the shot. (Luke is also in a different position)

70mm

35mm

The Rebel fleet - the scene begins with the first establishing shot of the fleet, then cuts to inside the Falcon. Not in the 70mm version are two more establishing shots.

Added to 35mm version

Added to 35mm version

The effects shot over which Lando says, "When we find Jabba the Hutt and that bounty hunter we'll contact you" is not in the 70mm version.

Added to 35mm version

The following ones are difficult/impossible to include for obvious reasons.

* After the probot lands on Hoth and moves frame left, there is an optical wipe to the overhead shot of Luke on his tauntaun, instead of a straight cut.
* After Luke wanders through the snow and falls face down, there is an optical wipe to Han instead of a straight cut.
* The bacta tank scene starts on a close-up of Two-One-Bee and pans right to a closeup of Luke in the tank. It then cuts to FX-7 extending it's arm to the tank. There is no cut to Leia, Han and Threepio observing.

Added to 35mm version

* In the snow battle scene, when Luke drops into the snow after throwing a charge into the Imperial walker, the AT-ST in the background has no atmospheric depth. It looks to close and small. 
* The telepathy between Luke and Vader has straight cuts instead of quick dissolves.

The last one could perhaps be included in your notes.

No, no problem at all. I will just borrow a player from a friend. I have a few players to choose from.

21 euro in total then, I'll give it a shot. Thank you so much for the help erri! :)

I'm not sure what english VHS edition that is, the old Blue Dolphin release is similar but looked a little different.