No, Belbucus used his own recordings for that, see here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/70mm-mix-to-93-mix-comparison/post/242587/
So with morgands1 recording we have three different 70mm in theatre recordings of Star Wars. :)
Was the VCD in pan & scan format?
Have a borrowed computer at the moment, hopefully I can get my old one to work after the re-installation, also received the Italian tape, seems to be in pretty rough shape going just by the case and cassette, not bad like the mold problems seen in that ebay auction though. ;) we'll see if it will be any better than we already have but that will be at a later time...
Ah thank you russ15! :)
none said:
1978.04.24 : Star Wars 70mm In-Theater Audio Recording - L.Mayer (Mrs. BrianM) - D.C. **Crowd Interaction**
--http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Closest-to-1977-release/post/216375/#TopicPost216375
*CI*http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Theater-Performance-Preservations/post/470206/#TopicPost470206 [Crowd Interaction Notes]
Is this recording still available somewhere? I would very much like to take a listen to it.
hairy_hen said:
I did listen to those raw recordings, and the surrounds can't be heard there either. But I think those are what Belbucus used to make the 70mm/1993 comparison track, so it's not surprising. Separating the comparison channels and playing them back individually, it seems quite clear that the theatre where the recording was made did not have an operational surround channel. The front channel portions of the '93 mix when folded down to mono seem to match up exactly with the recording, in the levels of certain surround effects that were also partially panned to the front, which really confirms my suspicion.
No doubt about those missing surround effects, just a late reply...
No, Belbucus 70mm/1993 comparison track was made from a recording of a 70mm engagement from 1977 at the Loews Astor Plaza in New York City, with occasional patching from another 70mm recording at the Loews Orpheum. morgands1 recording however was done in 1977 at the Paramus Triplex in New Jersey. And we also have a third source that I mentioned earlier done by L.Mayer (Mrs. BrianM) recorded in D.C. which I haven't heard yet. Need to track that down...
Skimmed through the Empire '97 SE LD yesterday which I hadn't seen in a very long time to see if any DVNR was present and unfortunately I can confirm that it was, clearly noticed it on the scenes on Dagobah and Cloud City, the exact same nasty artifact seen on Vader's blade in the GOUT (see here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/463309/#TopicPost463309) was also present on this transfer. It's quite amazing that they didn't learn from their previous mistake just a few years earlier, but then again DVNR is still going strong albeit in a slightly more sophisticated way.
SilverWook said:
THX11384EB said:
One last thing. I figured this might be of interest since it's related to THX-1138 and could be used an extra bonus material.
It is 1971, THX 1138 was released on March 11, American Zoetrope is spiraling towards certain doom, Lucas has become even more disillusioned with Hollywood than he was during his stint on McKenna’s Gold, and where exactly things go from here for the upstart and its members is all up in the air. And while American Zoetrope and Coppola had slowly started to cause waves — mostly due to THX’s failure as it were, though also because Coppola wasn’t afraid of touting American Zoetrope a state-of-the-art facility which could outmatch Hollywood, and that the company (and thus himself) was the future of filmmaking — Lucas was little more than a promising student who had made an obscure sci-fi film which opened small and died fast.
During the summer of ’71, as all of this is happening, Gene Youngblood interviewed the then 27-year-old Lucas for a Los Angeles-based educational TV station, KCET in an hour-long program called George Lucas: Maker of Films.
This was taken from an article found here:
http://binarybonsai.com/2009/06/20/george-lucas-maker-of-films-1971/
Here is a direct download-link to the video of the interview:
Good find. I think someone already did a preservation of this a while back.
Yes, a DVD has already been made: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/George-Lucas-Maker-of-Films-documentary/topic/10403/
russs15 said:
A bit more info. The VCD box is dated 1991 but the files on the disc are dated July 2003. Runtime is 84 mins and 54 seconds. Some random site I found says that the Phillipines are NTSC M. If someone can tell me the time frame of the screenshot on post 947, I will try and do the same shot from the VCD.
70 minutes.
danny_boy said:
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
Tighe said:
Thanks! I don't even care if it is restored, a direct transfer would be fine with me. Dirt, scratches, and dots are all fine! That is what it was like in the theater! ;-)
That is what it was like in the theater AFTER the films had been played hundreds of times and got worn. The best prints in the best theaters on opening day would have looked sharper than blu ray, and sounded better too.
I would suggest spending some time reading the various threads in the preservation section. There are many different versions depending on what you're looking for.
Not according to George Lucas:
The audience will get a brand new print(1997 special edition) that’s very clean and actually better than the original release(1977 print) in terms of technical quality. It’s less grainy, it’s less dirty, and it’s just a better print.(than the 1977 print)
Regarding the sound:
Now we’re able to deliver even better than the seventy-millimeter quality with the new digital release in a range of sound that was not possible before.”
It's called marketing.
It's funny how the "untouched" GOUT in this example posted by Harmy look so much worse compared to the real deal.
Straight from the '06 DVD:
Take your time h_h, everyone loves what you do, this will be your perfect reconstruction. :) I admire you guys who have the patience to work on editing these audiotracks as I know it must be a pain. You are the invisible heroes!
Stinky-Dinkins said:
When it comes to this shit, ignorance is bliss a good 75% of the time. I blame Frink.
I agree, everyone should blame Frink. ;)
Thanks for the info Puggo! I'm so f**king glad that you have time to work on this at all. :) Sorry to hear about the shape of the print, wonderful that the audio seems to be good. Big thanks to you and Silver. :)
doubleofive said:
Imagine what it's like to be me and try to watch the movies again!*timdiggerm said:
dark_jedi said:
You do realize it is going to make it hard to enjoy these movies now, I will be focusing in on all the crap now.
Man, that's been my problem ever since I started reading this site. It's all 005's fault! Matte lines...
Yeah, I can only imagine how it must be.
It's not like the problems with the new home video versions is any news if you ever was familiar with the look of the original films. In 2004 everyone that knew and loved these films got a headache of how incompetent the transfer was, not that it looked different, but that it was handled in sush amateurish ways. The Empire Strikes Back SE even succeeds in such a rare occasion to crush black levels and blow out whites at the same time, not a bad accomplishment.
I sat down and watched a leak of the DVD version in 2004 with a couple of friends and I immediately asked my buddy if his system was calibrated correctly, and he said of course it is, and I seriously was ready to puke of what I saw but they thought I was weird to even comment on the colors as the resolution was so fucking amazing. I told them I couldn't watch that version even if I liked the stupid additions, simply told = I was a weirdo in their eyes, and I probably still is.
Anyway, some time has gone since that leak, and one of the guys who saw the DVD-leak with me that day said to me recently, "it seems that they still haven't fixed the colors." when he watched the blu-ray, funny that you are an idiot when mentioning something the first time, and then later you hear something is still wrong with the transfers...
Yes, I'm saving all the things on my computer right now, all the THX files are already safe, so no worry.
I hope that just a reinstallation of windows will solve my issue... had you not a similar issue some time ago Silverwook?
Very happy to hear that Puggo found the time to work on your print. That is great news! Thank you Puggo! :)
I really think this project have a curse of some sort... my computer continues to trouble me, have had black and blue screen on startup the recent days, have been occupied with backing up all my files so I don't loose anything as I fear that my computer will die any minute now.
Last time I worked on this I was working on dehaloing the worst parts of the US LD footage, but wasn't even able to see the results before my computer died. :(
If you're feeling impatient why this never get finished I sympathize with you, I feel the same way right now.
I'm glad that you seem to like the SWE (technidisc) g-force, I must admit I like that transfer myself for various reasons, if only I could have captured it with a decent combfilter, the rainbowing and dotcrawl are hideous on it. Your great median script helped quite a lot though. :)
You're doing great job on improving the colors, You_Too! unfortunately it is impossible to get these destroyed transfers to resemble the original photography no matter what you do, incredible resolution but nothing else. :( Star Wars is so fucked up nowadays that I even avoid mention that film when I end up talking about my favorite films with my friends even though SW and Empire is on my top ten of all time favorites. If only people knew/remember how beautiful these films looked and sounded back in the day...
In 1977 everyone loved Star Wars except George Lucas, but why not turn that around so that the only one who likes this film is Lucas himself, he has definitely worked on it the last 14 years.
To make things easier for you regarding that particular audio track, see this: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Smear-free-93/post/527636/#TopicPost527636
The novel was based on the screenplay so I guess the trial should have the same order as in that, which is the same placement as seen in the Italian version. Interesting info about the rape etc, don't recall if it was in the script, does that mean THX isn't the father of the child?
You're doing great job, Harmy. When you're already going through the trouble, maybe you could try to restore the missing reflection to make it even closer.
Maybe it has already been pointed out.
About the eternal question if the various audio tracks on the video releases of Empire in the eighties is the original theatrical 35mm Dolby Stereo mix, I guess there's only one way to be sure, listen to them and compare.
I know that hairy_hen, myself and others have not been able to find any differences in content between them, so I would guess the same audio mix was used on all video releases until they went back to the source material and remastered it for the Definitive Collection LD set in '93, I guess the same goes for Jedi, but which track and which LD has the best sounding one would be interesting to find out.
Edit: The early LD transfers also often lacks many frames at reel changes, I think the JSC of Empire loses more frames compared to SWE, I remember that the cut from Luke arriving to Cloud City to Han being sent to the carbon freeze was very jarring in the Pioneer SWE LD for example. Some tracks are more complete than others so there's lots of editing required.
Don't know if your v2.0 Falcon matte is final or not but it lacks the reflection on the floor the original have, so do your v1.0. Just an observation.
hairy_hen, have you ever heard this 70mm audio recording by L. Mayer: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Theater-Performance-Preservations/post/470206/#TopicPost470206 if not, maybe worth a listen to see if it reveal something about the mix we don't know?
mverta said:
Absolutely possible. What's curious is I've seen it on 4 4k sources with identical offset.
_Mike
Hmm, then I don't know what to believe.
Harmy said:
The subtitles in PG are cropped at the bottom and there were never any official 16mm releases, so the subs weren't added to the print, they were copied onto it along with the rest of the picture. Period.
It's quite possible that there were different versions of the subs as well as the credits but at first glance these seem the same to me, only a bit underexposed (like the rest of the picture).
The PG subs are definitely the real thing, Harmy. It's like you say, difference in exposure.
canofhumdingers said:
Getting to the point, I'm wondering, are you recreating the drop shadow on the credits like what mverta posted? I ask b/c, while I have no intention of arguing whether those are authentic of not (as I don't know for certain what his source is) I DO know for certain that not all prints had that. I've seen the end credits of a 1977 35mm print that absolutely did not have the drop shadow. Anyway, sorry if I'm late to the game. I was just curious about this. Can't WAIT for ver. 1.2 or 2.0 or whatever it is now, the stuff you've posted recently looks AWESOME!
I'm pretty sure his source is a 35mm print, and that what we're seeing is a slight misalignment in the layers of the text. The letters had one layer of blue and another in cyan creating a nice blue halo around the letters, the A long time ago - subs was done in the same way with a blue layer underneath.