msycamore

The Griff, thanks for the info on the EFNY HDTV version, will check it out. The original Dolby Stereo mix should apparently be available on the Blu-ray according to someone who posted about it here: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/309515/5-1-remix-soundtracks-on-films-first-released-on-older-media-in-stereo

"On a sidenote, I recently picked up ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK on Bluray, and was pleased to find out the 2.0 track was the original Dolby Stereo mix and not a simple downmix of the new 5.1 track. (Lazy downmixes are sadly not a rare thing, vs being a truely separate mix) The original mix retains the original sound effects and occasional directional dialog."

Both the Optimum (UK) and MGM (Fox) release includes an additional Dolby 2.0 track, hmm...

More re-framings, all close-ups of Ben are zoomed-in in the '97 SE.

Top: GOUT Bottom: '97 SE Broadcast

There are 8 shots in total. Just like the re-framing in the wampa cave, they were all reverted back to the original framings in 2004. Talk about tinkering...

As a huge fan of Carpenter’s early body of work and particularly Escape from New York, I was disgusted back in 2001 when the MGM Special Edition NTSC DVD only provided a re-mixed 5.1 track. This re-mix changed many sound effects, while positioning on others changed in the soundfield. Some examples of changes in sound effects is when Snake is injected, or the rape scene in the theater basement. There are a few others that I don’t recall at the moment. But the thing that is the most affected in this track is the score which was re-mixed by Alan Howarth, the most obvious and radical difference is the scene when Plisken tries to save the president at the train where the score was completely changed from how it originally was presented. As a purist I don’t like these changes at all but also just as a remix the track fails miserably IMO, the sound is muffled where the original audio mix was crystal clear.

A few years ago dark_jedi took the original Dolby Stereo track which was available on the first DVD release of the film and synced the track beautifully to the Special Edition DVD transfer, and since then it’s been my go to version whenever I get the urge to re-watch this film, thank you again, d_j! 😃 So, is there anyone familiar with and knows how the audio has now been treated on the blu-ray releases?

An other Carpenter classic that got its audio mix butchered on DVD is The Fog, I think MGM was the great masters in the field when it came to fuck up audio mixes on DVD, they even went as far as to state on their boxes that their alternative mono tracks were the original theatrical mixes on several titles even though it was just a fold down of the re-mix. On The Fog DVD I don’t know what went wrong, but the 5.1 re-mix is actually closer to the original mix than the included mono track but several sound effects is missing. Also, not an MGM title but I recall Anchor Bay’s THX DVD of Carpenter’s Halloween stated that their included mono track was the original mix when it was just a fold down of the 5.1 re-mix. I’m not saying that all re-mixes are bad but this kind of shit makes me furious, either you include the original track or you don’t.

We all know about the more famous titles where only bad re-mixes were provided such as on the The Terminator and Jaws DVD’s but please help and add to what I started in this thread as I fear this trend is here to stay, and it kills me to know that there is people out there that have no idea that their DVD’s or Blu-ray’s of their favorite films have butchered audio tracks.

I noticed that these two are mislabeled as '97 alterations.

The bogwing pterodactyl-like creatures in these particular scenes were re-comped for the DVD.

ATMachine said:

It seems to me (viewing the 2004 version of ANH on an HDTV) that Leia's hologram recording was changed twice, once in 1997 (when the blue tint was added) and again in 2004. Specifically, it seems the hologram's vertical scanlines got a LOT fatter in the 2004 version, whereas the 1997 Leia hologram (judging by pictures you guys have posted) had very thin, very hard-to-see vertical scanlines.

Am I just hallucinating? I'd love to have somebody verify this for me--I don't yet have all the digital copies of the various releases. Thank you!

It's true that the horizontal bars that was present on the original Leia hologram went missing when they re-comped it in '97, but it could just have been the variations in resolution and detail between video releases that made you think anything was changed between '97 and '04, the fine detail such as scanlines on holograms and binocular shots can differ wildly between releases sometimes and have confused us in the past. Just take a look at this binocular shot in Empire for example:

'85 LD

'89 LD

GOUT

'97 SE broadcast

2004 DVD

Had I only checked the '89 LD against the '04 DVD I would have thought something was altered.

machinegodzilla said:

Hello,

After looking through this thread I'm a bit confused which version of THX is currently under working. Is it the 1971 Original Theatrical Release or 1978 Restored Cut?

Hi there, it is the 1978 restored cut that's in the work. The US letterbox laserdisc is what is used as the base but one reel where the framing was awkward was replaced by utilizing the UK laserdisc, the original WB opening logo and titles are restored by utilizing the 2004 DVD which still had the original titles left in (the green colored opening titles was for some reason white or completely faded on the widescreen LD's, they were originally green in '78 and on earlier video releases).

The 1971 original theatrical release would be impossible to reconstruct perfectly without the original audio (even some parts of the audio mix was altered by the studio according to Lucas). But the biggest problem of course is the editing, we have no idea to know for sure what the WB-cut was, but the '76 original Italian release tell us a little bit on how it may have been, but we'll never know for sure if not an old print would happen to surface. At least on American Graffiti we know exactly what scenes were added in '78. I strongly suspect the original Italian release reflect the WB-editing minus the opening, but information on the original release of THX is unfortunately very hard to come by.

machinegodzilla said:

Also, when the work is finished will it be available through MySpleen?

Thanks!

I will probably upload it there after first sending out copies to everyone that have helped out with this.

Baronlando said:

Good stuff there. GL remains a fascinating weirdo. It's like he wants all the hassle and spreadsheets of being an exec and none of the fun! Bizarre. 

Indeed, what this woman mentioned in the comment section sounds pretty weird to me.

Katrina:

"Surprised to hear that even the veeps were held at arm’s length. When I started as an intern, we got a big speech about turning around and walking the other way should we ever see the man. I thought it was because of where we were on the food chain, though. Confirms my theories about the disconnect between director and audience. And Jar Jar."

But I can understand it, but the wall that was between Scott Ross and Lucas sounds pretty f***ing weird to me, hope things have changed for the better around there in later years.

Another '97 digital re-comp not on your list:

GOUT

2004 DVD

An animated shadow from the tauntaun was added, and the snow around it was tweaked.

Maybe this has been linked before? Anyway, some very interesting inside stories on what went on behind the scenes at ILM in the early '90's from former ILM'er, Scott Ross on his blog: http://scottaross.com/2011/05/ 

beginning with "Banned from the Ranch".

Lucas didn't even recognize the General Manager for his own Visual Effects company. :) Also, the responses by other ILM'ers there are priceless.

schorman13 said:

So you're saying the first one is an extra frame, but the second is a duplicate frame that replaces another?  

Instead of this frame:

we get this:

Top: NTSC Bottom: PAL

It looks like the PAL is a duplicate of the previous frame, on the NTSC you don't see the visible splice (glue mark) seen on the LD, hence my conclusion, but I may still be wrong about this one, you'll probably need to check the LD's to be sure. There's so little movement in the picture at this point, so a duplicated frame is perfectly acceptable as a quick fix for NTSC owners. In motion you'll never notice it but the interlacing error is noticable.

Instead of this frame:

we get this:

Top: NTSC Bottom: PAL

The PAL is just a duplicate of the previous frame. If you want to do a quick fix, just delete this frame and duplicate the next frame instead.

frank678 said:

So although I can see in the helpful examples you've posted have improved on the previous darkening contast and the previous too solid-quality to the saturation to me via my laptop screen they still appear too red(!!)

No color correction was done on my examples except some desaturation on the last pic, the first step is to set the correct black and white point before you even attempt to color correct anything because it will greatly affect how your colors will come out, my examples weren't anything definitive, I just wanted to demonstrate how much a subtle contrast correction can do. If you've only seen my disc on your laptop you haven't seen it at all.

Darth Mallwalker said:

msycamore, is your Pioneer made in Japan or USA factory?
I've got one from PVI in California, as well as Technidisc copy.

I just double checked, my Pioneer is manufactured and printed in USA, didn't even know there existed Pioneer pressings made in Japan! It's nice we have experts around here.

Darth Mallwalker said:

Now that I think about it, seems I never finished ripping the PCM audio from Technidisc.
IIRC got sides 1&2 then became distracted before finishing side3.
Perhaps I should pull it out again and try some screen grabs...

Please do. The PCM audio ripped would be fantastic :) and I'm also very curious to know if the weird color hues are present in the other pressings.

Chewtobacca said:

Wasn't this discussed in other thread?

Yes, here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/James-Cameron-uses-DVNR-on-Aliens-Blu-Ray-transfer/post/434937/#TopicPost434937

Aluminum Falcon, could you do me a favor and post some more screenshots of your Empire capture, I'm beginning to suspect that the Mitsubishi pressing and perhaps the Technidisc pressing may be superior in the colors compared to the JSC and Pioneer-SWE, going by your screenshots here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Smear-free-93/post/517316/#TopicPost517316 the red seems to be red instead of pink and the blue seems to be blue instead of cyan. Some examples of the ugly hues to be found in the Special Collection and SWE (Pioneer pressing):

This can of course be corrected:

But I would like to know if the Mitsubishi pressing is a better starting ground for such a project, so can you please post screenshots of these when you have the time. I'm curious to know how your laser look on these sequences.

You have a few examples of the color timing on this page: http://www.bladezone.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2555&start=0

I'm glad that you seem to like my preservation. May I ask how you watch my DVD, is it on your computer screen via VLC or on a big LCD screen? I would suggest you try and burn a copy and play on a regular old CRT TV for best results, if you haven't. No offense, but to me those VLC settings of yours doesn't look good at all, you're free to play around with the settings you like of course but you have really taken a bulldozer approach IMO, it really just need a subtle contrast boost and a desaturation starting with side 2 to look like itself, which isn't that far removed from the original timing at all.

A few examples with a more accurately set white point.

DVD

Improved contrast

DVD

Improved contrast

Starting with side 2, there's more saturation.

DVD

Improved contrast and desaturation

And on Side 3 the saturation and contrast varies alot from scene to scene, I'm afraid there isn't any magic setting for the whole film. I can upload a contrast corrected version as soon as I get my new computer if there's still interest, it wouldn't take me long at all as I have all the files from this still saved on a external HD.

Thank you so much, Protocol Droid for sharing this and your mum for the recording, if she only knew that people around the world would be able to listen and appreciate this 35 years later when she recorded this. :)

Like everyone else already said, the audio quality on it is unreal, absolutely amazing! This gave me goosebumps on more than one occasion, the audience reactions reminds you how innocent and fun this movie really is, after watching this film so many times you often don't reflect over certain lines and situations as you're so used to them, it was a little bit of magic to hear the reaction to the bickering droids, when the mouse robot got scared, Solo's and Leia's witty lines etc. Great job, Puggo. Thanks!

I must also add that I was actually surprised by how silent the audience was in between, have heard stories about how wild the reactions in US theaters can be, (maybe exaggerated and false) here you got the impression that they were really captivated by the film. But who wouldn't, it was Star Wars. ;)

Maybe in five years we could celebrate the 20th anniversary of the Special Editions, kind of scary and depressing that those bastard childs have soon been around as long as the original film had when they were released. Many generations of kids have not had the opportunity to experience the real films in that period. IMO there's nothing to celebrate about Star Wars these days, when its creator have pulled back the final cuts from viewing.

I bet that many of his re-editing in the trilogy wouldn't get a pass on test-screenings in '77, '80 and '83. You know, those test-screenings that were common back in the day, where they could change around things if it didn't fly with the audience. We have been testing these new versions of yours Lucas, and most of us didn't like them, can we please now go back to those versions we all loved?

A weird one... this shot was oddly enough zoomed in on in '97 but reverted back to the original framing in 2004.

Top: GOUT Middle: '97 Broadcast Bottom: 2004 DVD

To make it easier to see the amount of zooming as the '97 broadcasts were a little tighter framed and lost a few pixels on all sides, here's an demonstration on how much.

Top: GOUT Middle: '97 Broadcast Bottom: 2004 DVD

It seems you never got any answer to your question... the sequence wasn't re-cut so either you imagined it or there's a screw up on the LD.

Noticed that this '97 re-comp wasn't on your list:

GOUT

2004 DVD

Moth3r said:

Well done for this. I can't think of a better example of a theatrical DTS soundtrack - I still remember seeing that "Digital Experience" bumper in the cinema, too!

Indeed, wasn't Jurassic Park the very first major film with a DTS soundtrack? a milestone in cinema audio. Good job of you guys preserving it. :)

Yeah, the color timing on the laserdisc shot here is far removed from the real thing, the GOUT is correct, minus the red/pink tint.

OmegaMattman said:

I knew about the interlacing error in Jedi with the few frames of the Ewok, but hadn't spotted those two from Empire.  I wonder if my manual IVTC eliminated them.  I'll go back and check my Hyperspace masters to be sure.

I just discovered that the PAL transfer just repeat the previous frames in its place, so the PAL disc of Empire isn't needed for those interlacing errors.

A similar case with this frame:

13588

The PAL disc just repeat the previous frame, the actual frame missing:

It's actually this following frame that is absent in the PAL GOUT:

145590

The repeated frame in the PAL GOUT was what confused me a little, so it's actually this frame that has the error in the NTSC and in the PAL the frame before is just repeated, two different kinds of errors. ;)