msycamore

Ok what I described on the last page as an anomaly on the planet in the composite in the ships taking off sequence appears to actually be a layer of clouds added optically over and around the planet which is absent on the GOUT and Technidisc composite.

These JSC transfer screenshots is not in that good quality and have some clipping of the reds, so I'm not sure how visible it is.

first frame:

in the fourth frame a layer of clouds appear around and over the planet:

pretty nice and subtle effect which adds to the scene I think, it seems they had a lot of trouble with this sequence as the other version have an optical glitch on the ships whereas this one have the glitch with the clouds missing for the first few frames.

Edit:

So far I've discovered that this version of the effect shot is seen in:

• 16mm English (PuggoGrande)
• pre-ANH widescreen bootleg (mthr)
• pre-ANH bootleg 'PS77-78?' (AntcuFaalb)
• NTSC home video versions '82 - '92

The other version is seen in:

• SWE (Technidisc)
• DC/FACES/GOUT
• Negative 1's 35mm print

Another pre-'97 print variation: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Complete-Comparison-of-Special-Edition-Visual-Changes/post/594949/#TopicPost594949

These three SE-wipes were replaced by new ones for the 2004 DVD transfer.

synced up to your comparisons.

bilditup1 said:

msycamore said:

...and for some reason they also removed Lord from Darth Vader.

The answer to this can be found in zombie's book.

Yeah, I guess the name Darth being retconned into a title could be the reason for it. Like Captain Lieutenant Vader... ;) talk about half-assed, the retcon doesn't work and doesn't make sense in the film anyway.

Yes, this one is not a case of DNR, it's identical in the DNR-free Technidisc transfer, the first row of ships are already in the sky for the first frame in the JSC and Grande whereas they are still barely over the trees in the Technidisc and GOUT, the disappearance of the ships a few frames later in the latter seems to just be a glitch in the composite. (just one single frame were they're gone and then they reappears)

I don't think Harmy or anyone else cares about this one though, you only notice the difference when going through it frame-by-frame really. But it's fascinating that these subtle differences exists even on older prints, this may actually be a case of a '77 variation. And no matter what, Harmy's I believe is yet another composite. ;)

crissrudd4554 said:

Also the shot of the fleet taking off (with the white flashes) in the original it was four ships in each row but in your cut it looks like 3 ships in each row. Was that intentional or was that an accident?

Your comment made me discover yet another change that's gone unnoticed: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Complete-Comparison-of-Special-Edition-Visual-Changes/post/594949/#TopicPost594949

This change/difference may surprise you, at least it did surprise me. A recomposite have taken place of this shot at some point,

first frame of the shot:

the one at the top is from the Special Collection LD, the 2nd is from GOUT. As you can see, the timing of the white spots/ships are different. Both Puggo Grande and Moth3r's bootleg match the Special Collection ('80's home video transfers) Puggo Krig is blown out making it impossible to compare, haven't watched anyone of the other sources out there yet. The composite we're seeing in the THX transfer (GOUT and Technidisc LD) is actually more crude - the first row of ships disappear and reappear for some frames, the other composite have some anomalies on the planet instead. When this change occured I have no idea, maybe for the '81 re-release. It never ends... ;)

Harmy said:

Why not encode a simple low bitrate avi or mp4, which could serve as a timing reference. DVD streams are problematic and this is all that would be needed to set a timing standard.

Sure, I can do that. But, I often see the lament over not having a decent looking version of the '97SE, so I figured I could as well upload the finished encode when I'm at it, so that people can remux it with whatever they want. The timing reference is the NTSC 2004 transfer, so whatever is synced to that will match my file as well.

Sorry for being off topic, I can start another thread if there's need for it.

The lossless avi files are around 20GB each and I don't think I'm capable uploading such huge files at the moment. I could of course encode them to DVD ready m2v-files taking the audio bitrate into account. As I mentioned, ANH is complete, and is perfectly synced up frame wise to the NTSC 2004 DVD version, maybe upload it with that horrible re-mix? at least then there's an video source to sync to...

SilverWook said:

Those extra frames must mean they rebuilt that sequence from scratch?

I guess the spliced in '80's Warner Bros logo is the reason for the frame difference. The titles on the DC transfer are definitely the original optical ones, straight from the negative I presume. Which reminds me... I should do it the opposite ways of course, which means; edit the LD-audio not the video. ;)

The credits on G'Kar seems to be spliced in from a Laserdisc source, the 2004 DVD transfer includes the same '97 credits with the DTS Stereo logo. I suspect it's just a different logo for the same thing.

I'm pretty sure ESB SE also had the same reel breaks as the original, the '97 ESB I compiled lack one frame but is still two frames more complete than the NTSC 2004 DVD, see here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Complete-Comparison-of-Special-Edition-Visual-Changes/post/590213/#TopicPost590213

two frames are absent around the 2nd reel change and one frame at the tail end of reel 4 that are present on the '97 Broadcasts.

SilverWook said:

Any updates? Just wondering...

Sorry for the silence, I began syncing the audio but have been very busy with things in real life that have occupied my time lately, I'm also trying to solve an irritating issue I have with my disc drive at the moment, whenever I burn dual-layer DVD's with ImgBurn something goes wrong when it's about to finalizing the discs, have tossed countless faulty discs. :(

I was able to fix that glitchy part that couldn't be IVTC'd of your US capture by utilizing the Japanese capture for those frames. I should also mention that the fade from Buck Rogers to titles is 4 frames longer on the DC, so I had to cut those frames between the Buck Rogers segment and the WB-logo in order to get the DVD-footage in sync with the intro on the Laserdisc transfer.

Due to the combination of sources, ANH is complete but ESB is 1 frame short. Don't know about Jedi or how the LD's compare. Maybe I should upload the avi files and someone can take a shot at the audio syncing.

It doesn't matter if George Lucas say if he intended to have scenes in there where Darth Vader is skipping rope or singing with the Emperor, the film was released as a finished product in '77, it was completely faithful to the shooting script. He may not have been 100% happy with the outcome, but how often do you think that happens in filmmaking or in any other art form for that matter. It's hardly unique.

Yeah, my comment was more of a general suggestion of what can be done instead of these speculations.

skyjedi2005 said:

Other than the short sidebar mention in Rinzler's book this will remain forgotten.

But the Blu Ray did not include new transfers of the 4 making of specials that were released and  only 3 were included and from star wars to jedi has since been buried.

If Lucas cannot even bother scanning existing prints, much less the negatives for the other making of specials and restoring them what is the chance of releasing a once only aired in Europe special for TV?

 

Just to put things into perspective other than the previous unreleased and not restored deleted scenes the blu ray did not include the original versions of the films but also no new scans of the negative for the 2011 special edition, they dumped an existing stuck at 1080P transfer done on antiquated 2004 tech on the blu ray.  This is unacceptable for a billionaire who has the cash for a proper presentation of these films.

At least some of the deleted scenes are now released in a higher resolution than the actual films... oh, the irony. Personally, I can't see why these documentaries are included on that blu-ray set at all other than to lure in old fans into buying something they don't really want. I remember them being very cheesy documentaries mostly explaining the optical effects work, wouldn't it make more sense to have making of documentaries of the digital work that happens to be what's actually on that set.

As the Legacy forum has a PM function, why not contact this mythical person if you're really interested in how he is doing.

Fang Zei said:

If they were to do that, I find it very likely they would also see fit to finally restore the original versions as well. THAT'S the only reason I care about all this 3D post-conversion bidniss.

Then I would stop caring if I were you, as there's no connection whatsoever between a possible fresh scan of the Special Editions and the original films being restored.

Again, very nice results, S_R!

Spaced Ranger said:

Am I misreading this or was the capture camera on auto-exposure (a no-no)? If no choice, are you looking into a brightness control filter (a big job, I would think, as this would be done shot-by-shot, every shot)?

This is something that I'm unable to answer, will need to ask Puggo about this, maybe he will chime in and explain it for us.

The video part of the project is done for the 2nd time. Ready to start syncing the audio...

SilverWook said:

Rick Baker got screwed over for King Kong in the 70's, as Dino DeLaurentis somehow managed to make the academy believe Carlo Rambaldi's life sized animatronic Kong was used for most of the movie.

Weird, didn't know about that.

walking_carpet, don't worry about getting off topic, this thread is kinda off topic anyway. ;)

It was in fact only Brian Johnson, Richard Edlund, Dennis Muren and Bruce Nicholson who received the statuettes, so only the visual effects got awarded, not Stuart Freeborn or Frank Oz or anyone of the other people involved bringing Yoda to life. Had make-up effects had its own category that year, ESB would certainly have gotten the statuette.

Both works were equally amazing in their own category, but they could perhaps have given the visual effects an award like they did in '78, and an special achievement award for the special make-up effects, I have no idea, I don't know how these things worked back then, the decisions of the Academy doesn't make much sense some years.

schorman13 said:

By complete, I mean all of the frames.  

The video sources preferred to use when it comes to GOUT is NTSC for SW & ESB and PAL for Jedi, but all of them lack frames.

schorman13 said:

At one point, I checked DJ's V3 version and I remember being surprised that it had that one frame that was missing from the PAL disc. I would have to double check that though. Anyway, I plan to sync them to that version.

Not true as DJ's V3 used the PAL disc as source.

If you're unsure about the differences in frame counts between GOUT discs, see here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/457548/#TopicPost457548  

Keep up the good work!

Mike O said:

I'd rather watch Jaws with the original mono track. Maybe if I had a killer sound system, the remix would be fun though. 

IMO, that's the only way to watch Jaws. But what do you mean by rather, you have a choice.

stretch009 said:

How does Lee's compare to Moth3r's?

 http://moth3r.heliohost.org/ld-screens.htm