Interesting, those storyboards are very cool. I think I also have seen Lazersword or Lazer Sword and what about Lightsaber and Lightsabre? ;)
zombie84 said:
The 1995 mix has mono elements, while the 1993 DC mix does not, right? Even though its just DC+mono, that still qualifies it as a seperate mix. It's based on the DC mix, but it's not the DC mix.
Sorry, but I honestly don't understand what you mean. The 1993 THX-certified Digitally remastered and remixed audio track that accompanied the Definitive Collection LD set, used elements from the original mono mix as well as entirely new sound-fx, this same mix is the 1995 mix. And this is the same mix that's on the Gout and the one hairy_hen used as a base to do his 70mm recreation. The '93 and '95 audio is not seperate mixes.
Well, "Stardestroyer" seems correct then. Edit: or maybe not. ;) Nice storyboards btw.
Here's the same spelling again, in the end credits of Return of the Jedi.
zombie84 said:
Msycamore: The 1995 track has bits from the mono mix added into it, IIRC.
Yes, that part of it was correct. It's just that from your text it looks like the audiotrack that's available on the '95 home videos (Faces) is another mix than the '93 audiotrack that's on the DC LD, when in fact it's the same THX-certified audio remix on both sets and also on the gout.
Don't ask me, Lucasfilm does it occasionally. The official DVD subtitles also spell it Stardestroyer. A minor thing, Luke's Gunner, Dack in Empire is spelled Dak in the subs and end credits, but I've seen his name spelled Dack sometimes.
I've seen it spelled like that on some vintage toys and that's also the spelling in the end credits of the original Return of the Jedi, I think it is like that in Empire also.
I'm doing DVD subtitles for the Star Wars films and I'm wondering if the correct spelling is Star Destroyer or Stardestroyer? if there really is any correct spelling of it, as even Lucasfilm spell it differently everytime I see it, the same goes for Sand People or Sandpeople? Any thougths about this or more examples of words that is spelled in more than one way in the Star Wars universe.
zombie84 said:
So the green and blue hues of the Death Star interior are the original cinematography.
I've also noticed that green/blue hue in several pics, but I'm not so sure about this. Artoo in the canyon also have some of that green hue in the photo along with several other scenes that are not taking place at the Death Star and look at the pink shifted lights in the wall when Obi-Wan faces Vader. But I agree that they shouldn't be neutral gray, as there's always different lighting conditions on the sets etc. here's a more subtle attempt by me.
I don't know, it's beginning to look like The Matrix... :)
I like your site so far, looking good, easy to navigate and a great idea behind it. I noticed that this info in your Theatrical Audio Resources is incorrect.
"In 1993, the sound was remixed in stereo again, this time "sweetening" the audio with added effects in Star Wars. In 1995, the mix was tweaked for a THX-certified release, adding a few of the original mono mix effects."
The 1993 remix was THX-certified and it's also the same audiotrack that was used for the 1995 release.
Here is also a great article about the creation of those audio tracks:
http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=5739
Today, I was transported to that galaxy again when I finally listened to this on my receiver. Again, just the 2.0 dolby surround version muxed with the Gout video at 480kbps, and holy shit! how good it sounds. I listened to it on my repaired Pioneer 7.1 receiver ;) through a coaxial cable connected to my DVD, I only have a 5.1 configuration at the moment and I have a couple of presets I can go with, but I choose to use my Home THX modes, Dolby Pro Logic+THX, Dolby Pro Logic II Movie+THX and Neo:6 Cinema+THX. And I was blow away! not only by your efforts but I was very surprised how much better and more powerful it sounds compared to the official 192kbps, the bitrate actually made a difference on my setup, especially in the small nuances in the music and most explosions, cannot believe I haven't encoded these audiotracks with a higher bitrate before.
Anyway, I settled with Dolby Pro Logic II Movie+THX which simulates a 5.1 sound experience, the other two presets sounded very similiar but I thought this had a slight edge over the others and sounded more natural. Even though I'm familiar with all the changes in the '93 remix I had to rewind the film several times especially as the reinserted original explosions in the beginning of the film sounds so natural, so I forgot about the editing sometimes and that's a good sign of hairy_hen's recreation!
I'm actually surprised of how little response this beautiful editing work of hairy_hen has recieved, to me you have restored half of the movie experience of the original Star Wars, now it's just the video transfer left. ;)
hairy_hen said:
Actually, I wonder if it would have been better to use the '85 mix for the replacements instead of the '77. It sounds like it is an exact transfer of the 35mm version (with C-3PO's extra line dubbed on top of it), but it is reported to have wider stereo imaging than the original. I haven't actually heard it in a while (never bothered to obtain a pcm copy because I didn't think I needed it before). Seems likely the wider image would have been obtained through some kind of post-processing, so it's probably not an exact match to the '93, but it might have been closer and made it a bit more seamless. Oh well.
I hope you'll consider to try it out sometimes in the future if you happen to get your hands on a pcm capture of the '85 remix. Even though it's already fantastic in its current form, any improvements are always welcome.
Will get back to you when I've listened to your 5.1 version, I think I'll wait until I have dark_jedi's Gout v.3 in my hands, to save some discs.
For those who are interested I've done the subs for dark_jedi's ANH '97SE forthcoming disc and decided to share some observations I did when working on them, some may find it interesting.
The timings and the appearence of the '97 LD/VHS subs are not identical to the theatrical subs where I do have a reference to look at, the same goes for the '04 DVD subs. Here is all the lines that differ from each other.
Greedo:
'97 LD - "...every bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you."
'04 DVD - "every bounty hunter in the galaxy will be looking for you."
'97 LD - "He has no time for smugglers who drop their shipments..."
'04 DVD - "He has no time for smugglers..."
'97 LD - "...at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser."
'04 DVD - "who drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser."
Jabba:
'97 LD - "Solo, come out of there, Solo!"
'04 DVD - "Solo! Come out of there, Solo!"
'97 LD - "So, for an extra twenty percent..."
'04 DVD - "So, for an extra 20%--"
'97 LD - "Okay, fifteen percent."
'04 DVD - "Okay, 15%."
'97 LD/'04 DVD - "But if you fail me again..."
Theatrical - "But, if you fail me again..."
'97 LD - "You won’t be able to go near a civilized system."
Theatrical/'04 DVD - "you won’t be able to go near a civilized system."
Also the DVD subs have the word "Imperial" with a lowercase i. The lines that are split up doesn't have an ellipsis before the continuing line in the SE as the Original had, you can see this in the screen-caps on the first page. Now, I'll end my useless ranting... ;)
Here's a few more sunset comparisons...
Bootleg Telecine (updated and corrected with the original source)
Japanese Special Collection LD
THX LD/"GOUT"
Bootleg Telecine (updated and corrected with the original source)
Japanese Special Collection LD
THX LD/"GOUT"
In this last picture, you can clearly see how altered the colortiming of the sunset in '93 was, the original colortiming of this shot is definitely supposed to be red in tone, it's red in the bootleg telecine, JSC LD and also in Puggo's 16mm restoration. I think they tried to make it more consistent with the previous 2 shots of Luke in '93, the original colortiming is in fact quite inconsistent, it have Luke standing against a bright soft pink sky but is suddely deep red in the close-up of the suns, then pink again in the second close-up of luke, but the whole scene ended up too dark and purple/blue in '93 to look any good imo. but that was also taken to extremes in the SE transfers.
JayArgonaut said:
The U.S CBS/Fox 1989/1990 LD's, I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this but the 1990 ROTJ (which of course is a re-package of the 1986 JPN release) has the full dialogue of Lando in the Falcon which is missing from all the other pre SE releases.
Lando's line "We're sure in the middle of it now." is present in the GOUT Jedi audio mix, it's just mixed very low compared to other audio mixes so it can be easy to miss, the dialouge is even subtitled in the Gout.
I agree that the small clips looking overall much better than the Gout, even though it's appearing very red in color sometimes, it have also much better detail mostly due to being true anamorphic I guess. I don't know where the footage in this originate from, my guess would be that it's a completely different master than where the video releases come from.
skyjedi2005 said:
The mono mix on the original THX 1138 was great, and then Lucas replaced it on the directors cut with a bogus 5.1 track.
I also believe the so called theatrical cut on THX 1138 on laserdisc and vhs has scenes that were restored for a re-release or on video, the original had trims done by warners.
Also... according to IMDB the original theatrical release had a 1-minute clip from H.G. Wells Things to Come from 1936 before the opening credits, instead of the later Buck Rogers segment we now are all familiar with.
Have the original mono mix ever been available on home video? I think I've only heard the later Dolby surround mix that was on the LD and VHS. EDIT: Don't know what I was thinking. ;) It is of course the original mono-mix that's included on all home video releases before the '04 cut.
skyjedi2005 said:
Also the original graffiti mono mix is nowhere available on video, or the theatrical studio cut. The video cut before the cgi was the same as the theatrical re-release. I know American Graffiti was always intended to be mixed in stereo but the initial release was in mono.
Are you sure about this? If I've heard it correctly it was originally released in 4-track stereo and just re-mixed in Dolby Stereo for its '78 re-release where it had about 2 minutes reinserted and a slight alteration to the closing credits. Anyway, it would be great to hear the original mix vs. the re-release mix to hear if they are different in terms of content.
Oh, I see. I've only seen four of them posted by Belbucus, so it would indeed be great to have all of them preserved in one place.
Thanks for posting those caps, Red5!
That whole binary sunset scene have looked different on every video source I've seen, the colortiming even differ between shots in the various sources, from the close up of the suns to the close up of Luke, sometimes red/orange and sometimes blue/purple. It makes me mad!
The Gout isn't just darker, the sky is also tinted blue. In the Senator Theater cap it actually looks like he gazes at a twin sunset and not two moons or planets that the later video incarnations and especially the SE/'04 will make us believe. I don't know how reliable that photo really is but IMO. it should be that bright and it looks right to me. I really hope more references of that scene appear in the future.
It looks like they got it right in the Canyon scenes then, if you just take out the small red tint in the Gout it should look right.
Thanks for sharing the photos, timdiggerm.
That print looking damn good!
zombie84 said:
What I know I need right now: 1977 screen photographs. I know the X0 people had a bunch. I've seen them posted from time to time in threads. But they are floating around in a million threads. Does anyone have this complete collection? I'd like to preserve it. Moth3r, I'm looking at you. :p
Exactly what 1977 screen photos do you mean? If you mean all the 70mm film cell scans, I can upload them for you.
Btw. this is a great idea! I still love your "How the Grinch Stole Star Wars" article, it's a very well written article that almost says everything that ever needs to be said about this whole ridiculous issue, I completely agree with it word for word.
What do you mean, are you saying you got another one? not the Angrysvn edition?
Yes, you probably did. As Moth3r said, the line "Close the blast doors!" was added to the Mono mix that was finished for the second run of prints later that summer but I've heard it wasn't until July. It's believed the '81 ANH release only was in Dolby Stereo though.
eldiablosuizo said:
I just downloaded the Angrysvn preservation of THX 1138 from laserdisc and it looked fine, but could use improvement. It wasn't anamorphic, either, which made me sad.
But an American Graffiti preservation would be much appreciated. Please, please, please, please do.
Well, I wasn't that pleased with the capture of THX 1138, sadly it was very blocky and it have what I think is interlacing artifacts throughout. Oh well, I guess it's better than nothing.
Yes, it would be great to have American Graffiti preserved, but you'll need LD footage to restore the opening of the film as they altered not only the sky in the background but also the text in the titles, so unfortunately you cannot just use the brief footage from the DVD documentary if you want it authentic.
timdiggerm said:
As for the Binary Sunset comparisons, I wish I could help you, but I don't remember now. A friend of mine took some photos, and while that's yet another layer of processing going on there, I'll let you know when they're available.
That would be great, thanks.
Thanks, ChainsawAsh.
I got it.
Great to hear someone who actually was there and saw it! I envy you, timdiggerm. When your memory of it is still fresh, can you please take a look at this thread:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/What-changes-was-done-to-STAR-WARS-in-93/topic/9805/
...and tell me which picture of the binary sunset and R2-D2 in the canyon best represent the actual print in terms of photography and colortiming, its been some controversy over the years about the film actually being changed already in '93 for its laserdisc release.
Great to hear that the print was still in that good shape, you damn lucky guy! ;)