msycamore

What is this shadow supposed to come from?

If you're going to add the 70mm visual differences you also have another one posted in this thread,  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/70-mm-print-of-the-Empire-Strikes-Back-Differences/topic/2321/

Puggos 8mm-preservation with its few visual differences is the only source we have of the numerous visual differences that appear throughout this cut.

maybe this help ;)

70mm Cut - from 8mm source - no fading in, no scanlines

'93 DC LD/'95 Faces LD/GOUT - fading in, no scanlines

'86 Japanese Special Collection LD/'92 US Pan&Scan LD and '97 SE - fading in, with scanlines 

Yes, of course, how stupid I am! don't know what I was thinking. ;) we basically have the Emperor hologram in three different shapes this makes the whole thing much more complicated than just 70mm/35mm differences, I do know that the Emperor hologram have those same scanlines in the '97 SE.

Yeah, this is a little closer...

...the problem is that you're very limited with what you can do in Avisynth with the internal filters, haven't looked in to all the external color filters yet. But it would be nice to get something closer to the original colors and remove the red shift in the canyon with Artoo etc.

SilverWook said:

Someone has bid on that radio commercial record. If it's someone on here, speak up, so we don't end up in a silly bidding war. ;)

Cool, hope you end up getting it. :)

zombie84 said:

What I meant was that even on the GOUT (and 8mm) images that have "no scanlines" if you look closely you can see there sort of is, because its on the monitor itself that is being photographed. I guess they wanted this to be much more obvious so they threw giant scanlines on top of this raw image.

 

 Ah... ok, now I understand what you meant, thanks for explaining.

zombie84 said:

What's weird is how the GOUT seems to have 3 stages of holograms:

-Clean holograms, without artificial scanlines.

-Holograms with verticle scanlines, which doesn't really make sense. They were corrected to be horizontal in the final version, so maybe these can be thought of "test composites" or "first tries".

-Holograms with proper horizontal scanlines, as per the final versions.

So it seems to have all three stages of completedness in one single print! You have ones that haven't had any added, ones that have had them added in a way that isn't final, and ones that are totally finished.

My question is: just what is this print? As if the source of the GOUT needed any more mystery. Its clearly something abnormal. I kind of wonder now if the grain levels are related in any way.

Yeah, it's really weird. Couldn't the '93 video master of Empire been sourced from several different print reels? Maybe it's 70mm/35mm differences or a combination of the two.

Baronlando said:

Just to harp on this a little more, (the idea that a potential blu 77-83 trilogy is some kind of hill to climb) they just finished a full HD cleanup/transfer of

100+ HOURS OF HOGAN'S HEROES AND T.J. HOOKER

that is all.

I love this kind of comments and the other similar posts you've made. They really show how stupid and silly this whole situation is. :) Even cheap porn movies are treated better on video than Star Wars!

It all comes down to childish stubbornness of a grown man, maybe we should start a petition where we state that we absolutely not want the original films preserved on any modern format, then maybe they will be released. ;)

Thanks for posting them, dark_jedi.

I'm glad to see they're not using the same transfer for both cuts this time, any chance of seeing the Director's Cut version of those same shots, d_j, please? Anyway, what stunning and beautiful detail in those images! I smell an individual release purchase. :)

Well, f**k it. I'll have to do it in sony vegas or something to get any satisfactory results. Nevermind the sample. ;) Will post when I have something...

doubleofive said:

My wife has been asking me, "what are you doing", and I just say "stuff for the board" because I don't want to nerd her out.

 

 :)

doubleofive said:

I'll add what they have in the official listing.

Yeah, I'll think that will be good enough for the credits. I'm actually quite amazed how many alterations we have found that wasn't listed officially, but I guess that going through these films in the way we have done aren't really healthy. ;)

Comparison pic 173 of Star Wars: the original film freezes the footage of our heroes just before it dissolves to the end credits, in the SE it continues on showing us a few frames of unseen footage. ;) I really think you should include the altered end credits as they are also part of the films, interesting or not.

I’m experimenting a little to make this classic shot appear a little closer to its original cinematography in Avisynth, any thoughts and suggestions on contrast and saturation etc. are very welcomed.

Before

After

Before

After

But in the end I’m not sure if it’s really worth all the trouble, the close-up of the suns have to be tweaked individually as many sources suggests they should have a color pallette closer to this

instead of this

and the quality of this footage in the GOUT is horrible as you can see in these captures below, the wonderful DVNR-smear in full force, and the wipe to the garage at the end of the scene makes it all even more troublesome…

Anyway, here is a video sample of my script so far

http://www.sendspace.com/file/f8dg8o

Please, let me know what you think.

Yeah, I actually was thinking about the same thing just after I had posted it, zombie. ;) That could very much be the case. I don't own any earlier transfers of Alien to check though.

dark_jedi, those two sequences appear right in the begginning of the film, the first shot starts around 10:00 minutes in and the second one starts about 14:20.

...and I think these are the two shots where they inserted a starfield in the 2003 DVD.

Here you go, from ALIEN 20th anniversary DVD NTSC.

I just found out what the track "Logo" on the limited FSM soundtrack was intended for, that I talked about earlier in this thread - it was intended for a cool-but-abandoned American Zoetrope logo as a sort of joke; that logo would not resurface until Roman Coppola’s 2002 feature film debut, CQ.

I just thought I would mention it for those who are interested.

ImperialFighter, I own the 20th anniversary NTSC DVD, tell me exactly which scenes you want me to take captures of besides that shot with "Brett-doorway-opening" and I'll post them for you.

zombie84 said:

Those definitely match the GOUT. There is some distortion and scanlining because the way they filmed the holograms was by playing them on a CRT monitor and re-photographing them. So there is some very, very mild scanline-like things burnt into the image just because of the way they were created. You can't really see it in still images but in motion you can see a bit of that "television distortion" that looks like scanlines. This is what the GOUT has and this is also what is pretty clearly on display in the 8mm caps above.

Amazing to find all these little details! I'm very surprised how much more there is to uncover in these films.

Yes, the Emperor hologram does match the GOUT but not the Vader one which has very clearly defined scanlines in both the JSC & GOUT which you can see on the pic I posted on the previous page.

Could you elaborate on this, zombie? I don't think I understand exactly what you mean here. I understand the process behind the effect but why are the scanlines only present on some transfers if it isn't differently done composites? or are you talking about the rolling bars?

From IMDB:

Effects, and Sound Effects changed in the 25th Anniversary Edition:

• While Ripley is contacting traffic control now, the last shot of the Nostromo in space now has a star field where there was just a Black Background.
• The Alien Transmission and the keyboard button sound effects are much different from the original deleted scene.
• The shot of the Nostromo rolling 92 degrees to port now features a star field to the left of the planet where there was just black.
• When parker gets drenched in Brett's blood, the sound effects of the cattle prod hitting the ground is different the original deleted scene.
• When Ripley tries to contact Lambert and Parker through the coms after leaving Mother's chamber, static can be heard when she tries a different channel.

Those two tweaks were the ones I was talking about earlier... it would be nice if you could check it for me, dark_jedi. Thanks.

hairy_hen said:

Is that the original Fox logo, also?  It occurs to me that it could be used for an adywan-style recreation of the original Star Wars, if it is the same one (clearly it is of much higher quality than the GOUT).  I never really looked at it closely before, though.

 

Yes, that's the original Fox logo used throughout the seventies, the same one on the original Star Wars and Empire. I'm glad to see they restored it.

hairy_hen said:

What about the audio tracks?  I think msycamore said something about it being the 70mm version, but I haven't seen that information anywhere else.  I would have thought they'd use the same mix as the '03 dvd, but then I also thought it would be a 1080p version of that same transfer, but it looks like they went all out with a completely new one.  I don't know anything about the differences between the various audio mixes.

 

Yes, they're including the original 70mm audio tracks for Alien and Aliens in lossy Dolby 4.1 surround and the new remixed tracks in lossless DTS, the remixed tracks are very close to their original counterparts as I understand it but it's nice to see they are including the original ones, (in a perfect world the original tracks should be the default track and in lossless ;) Anyway, for the earlier DVD releases of Aliens they simply created split surrounds to make a 5.1 mix of the 70mm track. I don't know of any differences in content between the 70mm and the regular 35mm version.

For Alien there is differences between the 35mm and 70mm, some alternate dialogue, rough sound editing, different/enhanced sound effects, and it also missing some dialogue which was on the 35mm version. For example Dallas "God morning, Mother." is an alternate take and the line "Kane's son" is missing from the 70mm. I believe the lossless track on this release is the same Directors' Cut DTS-track that was included on the DVD, I'm not so familiar with that one, as I only own the 20th anniversary DVD. 

erri_wan said:

I have already check the local libraries network but unfortunately they don't have it, some other cities do but they wouldn't send it so far, the VHS is not on ebay Italy either... the only option left is carboot sales!

 I will keep my eyes open for it.

erri_wan said:

It's really hard to guess, I'm still trying to contact the dubbing company to know more but it's not an easy task apparently.

Usually we don't have special TV-cuts of movies. We also don't have a very strict censorship (well not anymore at least) so international films don't usually get butchered (like sometimes happens in Germany or the UK).

As I said when I first joined the forum, the very existance of such version is puzzling even for Italians, we don't usually "alter" movies at all (except for the titles)!

If any attempt to contact the dubbers fails I will contact "WB Italia" and ask them.

This is what makes me believe it could be the original cut. EDIT: I meant 1971 theatrical cut, so I not confuse anyone. ;) In Sweden where I'm from we don't do such things either, only bad retitling sometimes but no dubbing. Whatever version you have, one things for sure, it's very rare! and I'm very thankful that you caught it. Thanks for continuing to look into this! :)

It's the same one with the tilted 2"0"th used for the original Star Wars and Empire but with Alfred Newman's short fanfare, not the end of the world if it's not restored but it would be nice. The original cut had two scenes IIRC without stars when you see the ship Nostromo, just a black background, they didn't bother to insert those original shots for the last release, and I don't think they bothered this time either. I can check my DVD were those appear so I don't imagine things here.

ImperialFighter said:

Personally, I'm holding off the blu-ray 'Anthology' set for now, as I'm only interested in the additional extras at this point, which is why I'm interested to hear from anyone that can confirm if it's ALIEN 'Theatrical' cut is just the same 'Director's Cut'-colouration as it was on the 'Quadrilogy' dvd set, or not.

 

I'm 100% sure the theatrical cut have the same color timing as the DC cut, I only hope they reinsert the original Fox logo and don't have the added starfields that they fixed for the DC this time.

Edit: A great thing IMO with this release are the original theatrical audio mixes for the first two films in 4.1. :)