moviefreakedmind

Lust-In-Phaze said:

Do you think this could have anything to do with Harmy’s Despecialized mini-documentary getting taken down last month? After years of existence Fox/Disney/Lucasfilm finally feels the need to suppress it, apparently out of the blue? Maybe I’m looking too deeply but perhaps that’s because they’d be competing with an official release?

I don’t know about the takedown itself, but I’m sure that once an OOT blu ray comes out, they’ll be significantly less tolerant of fan projects. For example, if someone on here reuploads their own version so that they can slightly change the colors (and nothing else), I doubt that they would call that fair use.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

If you’re just going to go ahead and think it’s empathy v. not having empathy because you found one black person who was offended, I don’t know what to say. If you’re trying to tell me I have to fall in line with what black people tell me to do, which one do I follow? Ben Carson or Obama? Who? All of them? That’s a lot of conflicting opinions and perspectives there. What do I do? Once again I’m going to refer to the fact that a group is comprised of individuals, you simplifying it to just black people can do no wrong is patronizing.

I said black people can do no wrong?

You have repeatedly said over the years that if a black person is offended about anything, I should change my behaviors and ideology to suit this stranger. It gives that impression.

No. If a black person says you shouldn’t eat toast because there’s a burned part that symbolizes the black man and you’re eating the black man, that’s ridiculous and you should ignore it. If a black man says a phrase is racist, and you look it up and it turns out that yeah that was the origin, then yeah maybe you shouldn’t use it anymore. It’s really not that complicated.

What if you don’t find it racist?

What if other people do? Can you not at least conceptualize why some people might find it racist, and shouldn’t that be enough to just not use it?

Why is it so hard to not use a different phrase? What’s wrong with playing Smear the Queer but calling it something else instead?

Why is it so important to you that you don’t care if you hurt someone?

How about this - if some people (not all) are offended by something, don’t do it.

What sort of life is that? That would mean I wouldn’t be able to do literally anything but breathe. This is impossible. The things I personally get offended over would spoil a lot of people’s fun, like alcohol etc. . Do I do anything about it? No, because I realize I can’t police people from doing things I don’t like.

If you really think being offended over alcohol and over race are equivalent…I don’t even know what to do with that.

What about cultural appropriation? Some black people think that it’s racist for whites to do things that are typically “black”, like make rap music.

I’ll admit to being torn on this one.

Why? You admit to listening to the Beastie Boys. There’s people who think that this is racist because they “stole” black music. What about eating foreign food, or soul food? If someone thinks that you’re stealing their culture, then shouldn’t you stop? I won’t stop because I don’t care that they think that since I think it’s ridiculous.

If I was blasting Beastie Boys and a black guy told me he was offended, I’d probably turn it off, rather than telling him he’s an asshole for being offended.

You could say, “OK, I’m still going to listen to it.” You can be cordial but still do something that you know isn’t wrong.

Do people really say it’s racist to eat other race’s food? Never heard that one.

I’ll admit, I haven’t either, but is it much of a stretch from the music?

Do you use the n-word? Why not? Is it ridiculous to be offended by it?

I don’t because it’s a word that is and always has been a generally derogatory term specifically to black people and dates back to a time when they were enslaved and killed regularly.

What about fag? Retard?

Rarely, but even then I’m careful about it because, though I’m not offended, I get that there are legitimate reasons why others are.

Why do you think this nursery rhyme is different?

It doesn’t include the same lyric anymore and I don’t think that the fact that it used to be offensive is particularly valid, especially since it’s been totally coopted for non-racist use at this point. Even if you think that it’s offensive, surely you can at least admit that it is different?

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

I never said that, I just don’t think that people should stop doing things that they don’t find offensive because someone else demanded it.

Essentially the same thing.

No, it’s not the same thing at all. You said that I didn’t think people had the right to criticize me, when that isn’t the case at all.

Let me rephrase. You think that you have the right to say something offensive and they have the right to be offended, but they’re the ones who are jerks for being offended.

Better?

Kind of. Them being jerks depends on how they respond to me and what they’re offended by. For example, I never knew that the word Oriental was offensive. I feel like people who are offended by it have a point, so I don’t say it anymore.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

I never said that, I just don’t think that people should stop doing things that they don’t find offensive because someone else demanded it.

Essentially the same thing.

No, it’s not the same thing at all. You said that I didn’t think people had the right to criticize me, when that isn’t the case at all.

Ok.

It was actually blatantly wrong. It’d be like if I said that your position was that people shouldn’t have the freedom to say offensive things, and then when you clarify, I say it’s essentially the same. It’s not essentially the same. It’s actually kind of libelous 😉

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

If you’re just going to go ahead and think it’s empathy v. not having empathy because you found one black person who was offended, I don’t know what to say. If you’re trying to tell me I have to fall in line with what black people tell me to do, which one do I follow? Ben Carson or Obama? Who? All of them? That’s a lot of conflicting opinions and perspectives there. What do I do? Once again I’m going to refer to the fact that a group is comprised of individuals, you simplifying it to just black people can do no wrong is patronizing.

I said black people can do no wrong?

You have repeatedly said over the years that if a black person is offended about anything, I should change my behaviors and ideology to suit this stranger. It gives that impression.

No. If a black person says you shouldn’t eat toast because there’s a burned part that symbolizes the black man and you’re eating the black man, that’s ridiculous and you should ignore it. If a black man says a phrase is racist, and you look it up and it turns out that yeah that was the origin, then yeah maybe you shouldn’t use it anymore. It’s really not that complicated.

What if you don’t find it racist?

What if other people do? Can you not at least conceptualize why some people might find it racist, and shouldn’t that be enough to just not use it?

Why is it so hard to not use a different phrase? What’s wrong with playing Smear the Queer but calling it something else instead?

Why is it so important to you that you don’t care if you hurt someone?

How about this - if some people (not all) are offended by something, don’t do it.

What sort of life is that? That would mean I wouldn’t be able to do literally anything but breathe. This is impossible. The things I personally get offended over would spoil a lot of people’s fun, like alcohol etc. . Do I do anything about it? No, because I realize I can’t police people from doing things I don’t like.

If you really think being offended over alcohol and over race are equivalent…I don’t even know what to do with that.

What about cultural appropriation? Some black people think that it’s racist for whites to do things that are typically “black”, like make rap music.

I’ll admit to being torn on this one.

Why? You admit to listening to the Beastie Boys. There’s people who think that this is racist because they “stole” black music. What about eating foreign food, or soul food? If someone thinks that you’re stealing their culture, then shouldn’t you stop? I won’t stop because I don’t care that they think that since I think it’s ridiculous.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

I never said that, I just don’t think that people should stop doing things that they don’t find offensive because someone else demanded it.

Essentially the same thing.

No, it’s not the same thing at all. You said that I didn’t think people had the right to criticize me, when that isn’t the case at all.

TV’s Frink said:

Money is not negligible to Disney.

In those quantities it is about as important of a consideration as preserving the original negative and considering their professional image. My point is that I doubt that Lucasfilm/Disney would care to take someone else’s restoration when they are perfectly capable of doing it themselves, and might have done so already.

SilverWook said:

Which takes us back to the old question of who really calls the shots on these things, Lucasfilm or Disney?

For something like this, I bet Lucasfilm. I guarantee Disney approves everything regarding the movies, because that’s where the real money is. Lucasfilm probably has some freedom with stuff like this and more minor media like the cartoons.

I know, I just don’t think that they see it as something they need. There’s a lot of consideration beyond time and money, which is negligible to Disney. They consider how professional it looks for them to accept, which let’s be honest it would look very unprofessional; they would probably want to restore the original negative also, so they might as well release that restoration instead. I’m just trying to think from their perspective and I just doubt it’ll happen. If this rumor is true (I think it is), I doubt that it has to do with Mike Verta.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

You want the right to use offensive speech. You have that right. But you don’t want others to be able to criticize you for it.

I never said that, I just don’t think that people should stop doing things that they don’t find offensive because someone else demanded it.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

There’s a difference between the need to protect offensive speech and the need to use offensive speech just to prove that you can.

But I’m not proving that I can. Maybe I want to choose something randomly with a nursery rhyme.

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

If you’re just going to go ahead and think it’s empathy v. not having empathy because you found one black person who was offended, I don’t know what to say. If you’re trying to tell me I have to fall in line with what black people tell me to do, which one do I follow? Ben Carson or Obama? Who? All of them? That’s a lot of conflicting opinions and perspectives there. What do I do? Once again I’m going to refer to the fact that a group is comprised of individuals, you simplifying it to just black people can do no wrong is patronizing.

I said black people can do no wrong?

You have repeatedly said over the years that if a black person is offended about anything, I should change my behaviors and ideology to suit this stranger. It gives that impression.

No. If a black person says you shouldn’t eat toast because there’s a burned part that symbolizes the black man and you’re eating the black man, that’s ridiculous and you should ignore it. If a black man says a phrase is racist, and you look it up and it turns out that yeah that was the origin, then yeah maybe you shouldn’t use it anymore. It’s really not that complicated.

What if you don’t find it racist?

How about this - if some people (not all) are offended by something, don’t do it.

What sort of life is that? That would mean I wouldn’t be able to do literally anything but breathe. This is impossible. The things I personally get offended over would spoil a lot of people’s fun, like alcohol etc. . Do I do anything about it? No, because I realize I can’t police people from doing things I don’t like.

If you really think being offended over alcohol and over race are equivalent…I don’t even know what to do with that.

What about cultural appropriation? Some black people think that it’s racist for whites to do things that are typically “black”, like make rap music.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I doubt that Disney or Lucasfilm would ever release Mike Verta’s project.

How do you know?

I’m not aware of a major studio ever accepting something like that, especially since they have access to much better material and a whole department of people to work on it, let alone releasing it.

Actually, now that I think about it, didn’t he intend it to be a proof of concept rather than a finished product for them to release to the public?

He did. I don’t think that they would be interested in the latter. They just don’t need it. It would save them some time and money, and they should take it, but I think they prefer to do things themselves.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

I just don’t get why your right to offend someone is more important to you than the fact that you might be offending someone.

Well nobody has a right in the United States to not get offended, but everyone has a right to offend somebody because we have freedom of speech.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

I mean, acting like the nursery rhyme is inherently racist because of its history is a little silly, but if some people can’t help but see its unfortunate past and that makes them uncomfortable, I won’t begrudge them that.

I don’t begrudge people for that, but I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices. Eeny Meeny Miney Mo isn’t a common part of my lexicon believe it or not, but if I feel the need to say it, I’m going to say it. If someone is offended, then they’re just going to have to live with the fact that they don’t control me and what I say.

Nice.

Prime example of what I mean about having empathy vs. not having empathy.

I guess that you could say that in this specific case I don’t have empathy. The thing is, if someone’s really offended by the non-racist Eeny Meeny, then that is their problem. Their offense isn’t everyone else’s responsibility. Like I said, I don’t think it’s offensive. I don’t find it offensive at all so I really don’t care if someone else is offended. I’m sure you, like me, don’t care that someone was offended by that Walmart woman president shirt.

Ryan McAvoy said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices

To be clear… “people” weren’t involved in making “everyone” do what they said. ONE person highlighted ONE t-shirt to the boss of ONE company. The boss agreed it was offensive.

The little picture of text heavily implied that everyone should fall in line with the person who wrote it.

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I doubt that Disney or Lucasfilm would ever release Mike Verta’s project.

How do you know?

I’m not aware of a major studio ever accepting something like that, especially since they have access to much better material and a whole department of people to work on it, let alone releasing it.

DominicCobb said:

I mean, acting like the nursery rhyme is inherently racist because of its history is a little silly, but if some people can’t help but see its unfortunate past and that makes them uncomfortable, I won’t begrudge them that.

I don’t begrudge people for that, but I do begrudge people expecting everyone else to fall in line with their choices. Eeny Meeny Miney Mo isn’t a common part of my lexicon believe it or not, but if I feel the need to say it, I’m going to say it. If someone is offended, then they’re just going to have to live with the fact that they don’t control me and what I say.

I doubt that Disney or Lucasfilm would ever release Mike Verta’s project.

It’s really important to keep in mind that he has completely ignored all of the big rumors regarding the OOT. The only recent time that I can find where he has talked about it was when footage of people working on Jedi in the sound booth surfaced. He clearly only deals in concrete information and evidence on this subject, so for him to basically say that he’s certain we’ll get it is huge.

DominicCobb said:

Handman said:

DominicCobb said:
You can’t just call everyone doing things you don’t like “political correctness.”

Right, just like how you dismiss everyone acting on what they believe to be politically correct as not being “political correctness”.

Sorry, I’ve just been trying to look at the topic through the prism of a set definition of the term. Other people (on both sides) love to twist the concept. This frustrates me, but I guess I can’t really do anything about it.

But you’ve never explained how anyone is twisting the concept. The reason PC can and does go too far is because it’s so broad.

It’s a stupid complaint though. There’s nothing racist about it. It’s a specific line from a tv show, and if you’re dumb enough to be offended by it should not buy and move on with their lives. Of course that wouldn’t work for them because then there’s a chance that someone else might purchase the shirt, and we can’t have that.

Do you also think that Walmart was right to pull the oh-so-offensive shirt about a woman president?

There haven’t been any rumors in 2017 until this.

I agree with everyone so far. They have recently been good about not posting potentially fake stuff just for views. The problem with sharing who their sources are in cases like these is that it endangers people’s jobs, but I wish he’d have given us a little more to go on.

EDIT: Notice that he says the tips and evidence have been piling up “over the last month”, so this isn’t just a reflection on the last few years of rumors and coming to the conclusion that they must be true.

That’s an interesting site for this to come from. He’s right that they don’t cover rumors like this so he must know something we don’t.