moviefreakedmind

I certainly don’t.

Possessed said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I love dancing. I’m almost good at it, too!

Proof that the world still has surprise and wonder left in it.

You thought I’d actually be good at it? Is that why you’re so surprised.

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Having police officers in schools not only doesn’t work. It’s a negative to students, especially minority ones.

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=njlsp

The fate of school discipline and security in America is at a crucial turning point. While the “school-to-prison pipeline” has recently received an increased amount of attention from policy makers interested in improving public education, the recent shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut led to renewed calls for the heightened security measures that helped give rise to the pipeline. This article provides clear evidence that heightened disciplinary and security measures in schools are faulty policy responses, as they have adverse impacts on the students they intend to protect and siphon resources away from policies that more effectively ensure student safety and success.

A relatively small number of the students arrested in Delaware were charged with felony offenses (approximately 9%), while the overwhelming majority of students were charged with misdemeanors and violations (approximately 91%). Moreover, students rarely faced high-level felony charges.

Although the Delaware student population is evenly split between genders, 65% of the arrested students were male, and 35% were female. Black students comprised 67% of the arrested students while only accounting for 32% of the student body. Meanwhile, white students accounted for 31% of those arrested in school, but half of the student body. Black students, therefore, were approximately three-and-a-half times more likely to be arrested than white students.

Yeah, I know, all cops are bigoted gun crazy a-holes who will shoot black kids because they hate them and shoot others for talking back. What horrible monsters cops are. I know.

I never said anything about race, although that’s a big issue too. My problem is that a sizable enough minority of cops are abusing that you can’t just assume you’re dealing with a decent one. Also, the so-called good cops are extremely quick to side with the bad cops when things go to court. A great example would be the video you shared a while back that was made by a pretty friendly-seeming cop that played the whole “Well, he was unarmed so I guess I’m sad he got shot to death but he shouldn’t have moved his hands so the cop was justified in killing him.” That’s an example of one of the “good cops” we always hear about, except in this case he’s stubbornly unwilling to call out the lethal incompetence of a deranged and violent officer. That’s why people are nervous about cops as a whole. There’s a lot more nuance to the fear than just “That cop is bad so they’re all bad!”

It is pointless to continue with this. No one will listen.

My hearing isn’t very good these days so I don’t listen well. My vision is pretty bad too for that matter, but I have been reading your posts.

So we can protect our kids, we can’t get the guns off the streets and nothing will get done. See you at the next school shooting. Have a nice day.

Oh, the “blood’s on your hands” game.

I don’t think Chyron holds too many grudges. I think he get along fairly wonderfully for the most part and I wasn’t the most understanding of his TV show preferences.

Mrebo said:
And everybody thinks they’re roses.

Oh hell no. I certainly don’t.

chyron8472 said:

Frank your Majesty said:

chyron8472 said:

Frank your Majesty said:

chyron8472 said:

God literally created time and space.

Citation needed.

Now really. How would he have explained the space-time continuum to people who lived thousands of years ago? And when such an explanation would have been beside the point?

I didn’t ask for a citation on how he created it, I asked for a citation on that he created it.

As opposed to it happening spontaneously?

Yes.

Little things were changed and supposedly about thirty pages were added. I’ve not read the original so I can’t tell you for sure what got changed other than in the original there is a line about Roland reading a magazine.

darth_ender said:

For what it’s worth, this forum takes too much of my time and energy. I know the regulars here will criticize me for what I’m about to do. I know that two years from now, someone will say something like, “Remember when darth_ender took his ball and went home?” Regardless, I think I should just give greater energy to real life and stop wasting it trying to be friends with Internet people, especially people who really don’t care. Overall, it’s been a pleasant seven-ish years, people. I’m sure I’ll continue to read the threads I care about. I am just going to log out on all my devices and don’t intend to log back in much if ever again. Thank you for the enjoyable interactions. I mean that sincerely.

Wow, what an embarrassing statement. And that’s coming from me.

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.

Ok, I will give this a real response.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.

I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.

obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.

I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.

And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?

Obey direct orders from cops

Kids? Obeying direct orders? Doesn’t compute. And again, what happens if they don’t?

I’ll tell you what happens. They get detained, pepper-sprayed, arrested, or have the shit beat out of them. At worst they may get shot to death. Every year there is a far too high number of school-aged kids that get shot to death by police.

Oh brother. You’re so prejudice against the cops, there is no point talking to you about this.

Warbler said:

Don’t try to kill any students, teachers or others

Obviously the dangerous people aren’t going to follow this rule.

Well if someone tries to kill a student or teacher or someone else, don’t you think the cop should stop that? Or should the cop just stand there and let them kill the student or teacher or someone else.

Of course I don’t think that.

Don’t carry deadly weapons

Again, the dangerous people won’t follow this rule,

no kidding. But but someone carries a deadly weapon into school, don’t you want to cops to intervene?

Yes. I don’t want them standing by every second of every day waiting for it.

but that doesn’t even matter since cops treat everybody as though they’re potentially carrying dangerous weapons.

well they could be. Small guns are easy to conceal. I once saw video where that looked normal, started pulling out guns that he had concealed. Turns out he had like 6 of them or so.

Most aren’t carrying concealed weapons.

That’s why so many unarmed people get shot to death by police. The excuse is always, “He could’ve been armed.”

and of of course it has nothing to do with ignoring repeated orders and warning from cops, right?

I didn’t know that was a capital offense these days.

It has nothing to do with people acting stupidly in an encounter and making a sudden motion like they are pulling a weapon right?

You’re right, better shoot him twenty-five times.

Yeah, you’ll say they should wait and make sure it is a gun. Trouble is they do that, and if it is a gun, they can’t stop it in time and you get a dead cop.

Here’s the thing: they signed up for this job, we didn’t. I know that sounds heartless, but I thought cops were signing up for a dangerous job in order to potentially sacrifice themselves in order to protect the innocent. The best cops have that mindset. But when you have cops with guns in your face screaming at you at the top of their lungs (ironically sounding much more like a deranged criminal than most deranged criminals do) it’s hard to know exactly how to move and what to do. I don’t like that I have to be treated like an armed and dangerous person just because someone else might be armed and dangerous, and if I get shot to death because I moved wrong, it’s my fault for provoking the cop. When a cop shoots a surrendering, unarmed person, that cop should be tried for manslaughter at least. If I pull a gun and shoot someone to death because I think they’re armed even though they aren’t, I would not get the special treatment that cops get. My poor judgement would’ve killed the unarmed person, so I should be held responsible. I don’t understand why people don’t feel the same way about cops, but since they aren’t held to the same standard I don’t want to stationed around each and every school.

Obey direct orders from cops

Why?

Because they cops giving lawful orders? Because sometimes they are giving orders in order to protect you and others? Because sometimes they know what they are doing in a dire situation where you the untrained civilian does not?

I have little faith in the training of cops. “Sometimes they know what they are doing” isn’t enough for me to just assume that they’re right no matter what.

So they don’t shoot me to death? If I’m obeying the law then their direct orders can go to hell.

What about emergency situation like an active shooter?

That’s a special circumstance that doesn’t happen often enough to justify putting an armed police officer in every school.

Sometime in such situations a cop doesn’t have time to explain why he wants you do something.

In extremely intense situations, yes. In every other situation, they do. Cops are often very intimidating, so it’s too scary to ask them for explanations.

I’m a law-abiding taxpayer.

that doesn’t exempt you from having to obey lawfully given orders.

Not all orders are lawful and not all lawfully given orders are reasonable.

The cops theoretically are here to serve people like me.

How will they serve you best? by people refusing to do what they are told in an emergency? or doing what the cops tell them and thus help the cops keep everyone safe.

Who said anything about an emergency? I understand that emergencies are different, but since most schools go through entire academic years without any emergencies, I’m assuming that most interactions with the cops won’t be during emergencies.

A lot of direct orders from cops are violations of your rights.

In your opinion. btw, such can be sorted out in a court of law.

Yep, and I’d have to go tens of thousands of dollars in debt to fight them in that court of law. And the court would most likely side with the cops anyway.

You don’t have to let them search you or your car or your property (assuming they don’t have a warrant),

actually sometimes you do. like if they hear someone screaming for help from the trunk of your car. Or if they hear shooting and then realize you smell of gun power.

That’s probable cause. They don’t usually have that.

you don’t have to answer their questions if you don’t want to, etc. etc. I don’t like this idea that the cops are our overlords that we just need to obey if we don’t want to be harmed by them.

oh ffs.

I’m right.

I don’t want cops in schools. If I had kids then I would not send them to a school that was under this police-state form of martial law, even if that meant I had to home-school them. This nonsense cannot be allowed to happen.

No, what can’t allowed to happen is more shooting like the one in Florida. But please continue to let your prejudice of cops get in the way of saving kids lives.

I desperately want to save kids’ lives. I just can tell that this is horrible idea that won’t work. Schools are huge. The shooter could just go to the part of the school where the cop isn’t stationed and do plenty of damage before the cop got there.

We need to solve this country’s gun problem the right way rather than fight it with more guns.

If the right way is to ban guns, its not going to happen. Too much opposition from the right.

Then the right is the problem. They must be defeated.

Don’t let anyone use these tragedies to turn the US into a police state.

having cops in our schools does not equal a police state.

Having them stationed throughout all of our daily life locations is, and your mindset that their use of deadly force is justified even if the suspect is unarmed is dangerously close.

If it’s revised it will have an introduction by Stephen King titled “On Being 19” or something like that. If it doesn’t have that then I’m guessing it’s the original.

ray_afraid said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

impossible for God

False.
I don’t believe in god, but if it’s real, there’s nothing that’s impossible for it.

Depends on the god. The God of the Old Testament wasn’t really portrayed as omnipotent or omnipresent all the time. Granted, that’s because many different people wrote the books of the Bible. The gods of a lot of other ancient religions weren’t written as all-powerful or even necessarily immortal. The Greek gods are a great example of that.

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.

Ok, I will give this a real response.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.

I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.

obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.

I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.

And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?

Obey direct orders from cops

Kids? Obeying direct orders? Doesn’t compute. And again, what happens if they don’t?

I’ll tell you what happens. They get detained, pepper-sprayed, arrested, or have the shit beat out of them. At worst they may get shot to death. Every year there is a far too high number of school-aged kids that get shot to death by police.

Warbler said:

Don’t try to kill any students, teachers or others

Obviously the dangerous people aren’t going to follow this rule.

Don’t carry deadly weapons

Again, the dangerous people won’t follow this rule, but that doesn’t even matter since cops treat everybody as though they’re potentially carrying dangerous weapons. That’s why so many unarmed people get shot to death by police. The excuse is always, “He could’ve been armed.”

Obey direct orders from cops

Why? So they don’t shoot me to death? If I’m obeying the law then their direct orders can go to hell. I’m a law-abiding taxpayer. The cops theoretically are here to serve people like me. A lot of direct orders from cops are violations of your rights. You don’t have to let them search you or your car or your property (assuming they don’t have a warrant), you don’t have to answer their questions if you don’t want to, etc. etc. I don’t like this idea that the cops are our overlords that we just need to obey if we don’t want to be harmed by them. I don’t want cops in schools. If I had kids then I would not send them to a school that was under this police-state form of martial law, even if that meant I had to home-school them. This nonsense cannot be allowed to happen. We need to solve this country’s gun problem the right way rather than fight it with more guns. Don’t let anyone use these tragedies to turn the US into a police state.

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

• What if the bad guy is surrounded by hostages? Are they expected to engage anyway?

obviously, this where quality training would help. Cops need to be trained to know when to shoot and when not to.

Might want to talk to black folks to see how that’s going.

I am open to improving the training we currently give cops.

• If Chris Kyle, a highly trained marksman, and good guy with a gun, was gunned down in a shooting range, surrounded by other good guys with guns… what makes you think an (at best) amateur marksman will fare better?

He will certainly fair better than someone who is not armed!

Well he didn’t fair so well.

He’s dead.

and if he didn’t have a gun and the nut was only one armed, he’d still be dead. If you are unarmed and someone is trying to shoot you and escape is impossible, you have no chance. Same situation and armed, you have a chance.

• What if having hundreds of guns in a single building is… bear with me now… not a great fucking idea? What if that building was filled with our children? Doesn’t that make it… an even worse fucking idea?

If the choice is having armed cops to defend our kids vs. leaving our kids unprotected, I’ll choose armed cops. Also these “hundreds of guns” if that is how many there’d be, would have to be strictly regulated. I think any guns coming into to school would have to be on the cops’ person 100% of the time. No leaving them in bathrooms, no locked closet with guns . . . ect.

But it’s extremely hard to get people to follow these protocols.

It is called training. It is called background checks, it is called being extremely careful in who you hire for this.

And if you get more people, it’s going to be harder to harangue all of them in to following those protocols.

If they don’t follow the protocols, they will be fired or worse.

If there’s more guns, there’s more opportunity for mistake. If you stand in the middle of a road for ten seconds, you’re much more likely to get hurt by a car in a car accident than if you did the same for one second. Your exposure to the possibility of a bad outcome is greatly reduced. And that’s why we need less exposure to guns.

mistakes can be minimized. I think it is preferable to leaving our kids unprotected.

Protect your kids by taking guns out of the hands of the fuckers that are murdering them, not forcing the kids to go to school under the thumb of a bunch of armed people.

I love dancing. I’m almost good at it, too!

darth_ender said:
Glenn Beck – Conservative political pundit

This is not someone to be proud of.

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

I’m in high school. I have many wonderful teachers. I don’t think any of them should be armed. Some of my teachers, and again, I love them, can hardly even operate a DVD player. I do not want any of them to be given firearms.

What about police officers that are extremely well trained and especially for a school environment and whom had been extremely background checked?

yhwx said:

https://twitter.com/markpopham/status/964157761427787777

Every time another one of these mass shootings happen - right when the Republicans start telling us that the answer is more guns, guns for everyone, guns for teachers, guns for students - I think about Chris Kyle.

https://twitter.com/markpopham/status/964157915056803840

Chris Kyle was the American Sniper guy - a highly decorated Navy Seal sniper with 150 confirmed kills in the Iraq War. Whatever else is true about him, he definitely was very good at shooting guns and used to being in combat environments.

https://twitter.com/markpopham/status/964158367697723392

Kyle knew that the man he was with was dangerous. He knew he was armed - he armed him! To the degree that anyone could be forewarned and prepared for a situation, Kyle was. And yet the other guy shot two armed and trained men dead, got in a car and drove away.

https://twitter.com/markpopham/status/964158835043774470

Today a bunch of men are going to go to a gun store and they’re going to buy their third or 10th or 25th gun, because this scares them, and they think the gun is going to keep them safe.

You tell me in which scenario does a nut with gun have a better can at killing a lot of people.

1. Going into a school where no one is armed.
2. Going into a police station full of armed cops.

Or instead of hypotheticals, let’s use real numbers:

23 percent of emergency department shootings involved a perpetrator taking a gun from a security officer

But that’s in hospitals. Maybe schools are different.

Maybe these security officers need better training and maybe they need holsters better designed to prevent a perp from doing that.

Honestly the way some of you are talking, it is a wonder you don’t post that you think cops should no longer carry guns. Maybe the military as well.

Yeah I’m not crazy about the fact that cops have the ability to kill people. That’s something that needs fixing.

First of all, I don’t believe in the death penalty, and that’s after due process. So I certainly don’t think a cop should have that power.

So you don’t think a cop should have the ability to defend himself/herself. Got it. ok. I am not going waste my time engaging you on such stupidity.

Putting aside your personal attack, I never said cops shouldn’t have the ability to defend themselves.

You think they shouldn’t carry guns, the kinda leaves them defenseless against bad guys. I could probably look up countless stories where if the cop didn’t have a gun, he’d be dead. There was story a couple years ago in Philly. Some nut just walks up to a cop car and tries to shoot the cop inside. The cop nearly died, and he would have if hadn’t had his gun to defend himself.

To equal cops defending themselves against bad guys to the death penalty is stupidity. One is self defense and defense of the innocent civilians(including children), the other is a form of punishment.

Defending yourself should not equal killing someone.

Sometimes it is either the cop or the bad guy, take your pick.

Too often the cop kills someone that wasn’t a threat because he thought that the guy might have been a threat. That’s why I don’t trust cops with guns. By the way, I don’t really trust anyone’s judgement with guns, so I’m not just picking on the cops. They could shoot rubber bullets or tasers or other things. I’m just spitballing, but the real issue here is that we need to take guns off the streets so that our cops don’t need to carry guns.

Warbler said:

Possessed said:

You take everything on this forum way too seriously.

maybe, but maybe some don’t take it seriously enough.

Nope.

Yep.

Given the amount of unarmed people shot, tackled, beat-up, or otherwise unjustly abused by cops I have no desire to put my children (if I had any) in a school that is under the constant supervision of armed officers, especially since people seem to be under the impression that any questionable behavior from a suspect justifies the use of extreme and even deadly force from the cop. Kids aren’t known for being compliant, you know.

dahmage said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I see no reason to watch any state of the union address because it’s all horseshit and the only thing it accomplishes is wasting my precious time that I could’ve spent watching better television.

But it IS watching television…

I’m aware that this is a late response, but I said I could’ve spent my time watching better television than the State of the Union.

I’m in my late seventies.

I’ve heard that the world is depicted more as just a rundown version of our world, e.g. Roland reads a magazine. It also references specific years, like Roland leaving his home ten years ago or something like that, which doesn’t fit. I heard it also makes Roland seem like a bit of an evil man rather than just a selfish man consumed by his quest. I’ve never read it, I’d like to though.

ChainsawAsh said:

Same here, unfortunately. I’m going to reread the series one of these days and I intend to hunt down the original before that happens, though.

I’ve heard that it completely contradicts many of the major plot developments that come later. I’d like to read it also but more just out of curiosity. It’s the original version of the Stand that I’m interested in.

What?

ChainsawAsh said:

Original or revised?

Which do you recommend? I’ve only read the revised.