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ken-obi

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4-Feb-2022
Last activity
18-May-2022
Posts
70

Post History

Post
#1479694
Topic
What do you LIKE about the EU?
Time

jedi_bendu said:

By far my favourite thing about that trilogy [Thrawn] is the characters. It handles the OT characters beautifully and many of the new ones are all-time favourites of mine - Mara Jade, Thrawn, Garm Bel Iblis, Talon Karrde. I love them all.

I agree the endings to both storylines seems to happen very quickly, but I do think they’re great endings.

Very much this, and one of the many strong points in the early EU books and comics.

screams in the void said:

I like that the older EU is still in print and can be found on bookstore shelves and libraries . I enjoyed Empire’s End Trilogy by Chuck Wendig

That is the next series of book I’m hoping to read. Really looking forward to it.

I also like that some of older EU is easy to find and can be found quite cheap as well!

Post
#1479691
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Darth Malgus said:

I don’t know if this is exactly an unpopular opinion, but still…

Having a Star Wars personal Canon is the only way to be able to enjoy the Saga with stillness, serenity and without heaviness. If you don’t like something, then just pretend it doesn’t exist and ignore it. If you don’t like something, then it’s not Canon. Simple and effective. I can say from experience that those who live with this philosophy can be more relaxed and have the best possible Star Wars experience, because they’re not forced to fight daily with the idea that something they hate exists in the universe, because they can just ignore what they don’t like and pretend It doesn’t exist.

100% this. I’ve seen a saying somewhere on here, something like “Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest”.

Let people enjoy what they like. There is so much in Star Wars (film, tv, books, comics, music, games) to take and enjoy, or to leave aside if not.

 

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Of course everyone is grateful to George for Star Wars, his creation and his dedication, but Star Wars thankfully moved on far beyond George and his retconned and re-invented visions. There is so much more to try, to experience, and enjoy.

Post
#1479416
Topic
Killing off the original heroes
Time

humanracer said:

Well of course Luke was hero figure to me and I think it was a bit hurtful to kill him off. Han was enough. At the end of ROTJ, you kind of imagined them all to live happy ever after. Seems it wasn’t the case and our heroes are now replaced with ones I cannot relate to at all.

What would you have done with Leia for IX?

I admit I compartmentalize the Star Wars films outside of the Original Trilogy. Pick and choose the films (or parts of them I like) and ignore the rest, a “head-canon” of sorts. For me the three of them still live on too!

Post
#1479363
Topic
Am I the only one who doesn't have any desire to rewatch the movies outside of the OT and Rogue One?
Time

What about re-watching Solo? I find Solo grows on me the more I watch it. Sure it has problems, but does vibe like an OT film similar to Rogue One also does, even if the quality of the OT is not there. I wouldn’t put Solo on to watch it myself, but when it has been on at friends’ houses or on at movie nights it has been a fun watch.
 

Those five films are probably the only Star Wars films I’d sit down and watch anymore. Fan Edits apart.

Post
#1479362
Topic
Killing off the original heroes
Time

Two of the deaths served the ST stories well, and also had an impact on an emotional level. So, “upset” in that they chose to kill these two beloved characters off, with Luke always likely to come as a Force Ghost? Not really. Han appearing in TROS was a beautiful scene. I wish Luke’s scenes in TROS were stronger, though his appearance, story and death in TLJ was the highlight of TLJ for me.

I agree with jedi_bendu above.

Obviously Carrie Fisher’s dying meant any scenes in TROS were restricted to previous unused or re-used and adapted footage, and that made sense to attempt to give her a fitting death onscreen too. YMMV on how they executed it in TROS.

Were you upset at the deaths of the original trio, humanracer? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

Post
#1479353
Topic
The Darker tone of Revenge of the Sith - But why?
Time

Interesting links there jinxfan2, I enjoyed reading them.

You could be right on Spielberg having an influence, but I would have thought the influence may have gone the other way. Both filmmakers at the time were parents bringing up young impressionable kids and possibly not wanting them to see violence in their films depicted in a certain way. Both directors made changes to their earlier work in a bid to attempt to remedy that.

For George, Han no longer shooting first; George’s disproven claims which even people who worked on the 1997 Specials Editions don’t believe. And the later bullshit ‘we didn’t kill many people in these films’ claim too.

For Spielberg, the replacement of guns with walkie-talkies in ET. Which he would later change back some time afterwards.
 

It is an interesting point you bring up, and something to think on.

To me, most of the darker content in ROTS appears after Anakin pledges his allegiance to Palpatine. Anakin’s about-turn to the Sith is abrupt and baffling. In the space of one scene, Anakin goes from being a disgruntled but loyal Jedi to child-slaughtering evil. He does this because of his visions of Padme dying during childbirth, and Palpatine just happens to mention that an old Sith once learnt how to prevent death. This enough enough for Anakin, and he quickly joins the dark side. Within a few scenes, Anakin is Force-choking a pregnant Padme, the woman he did all this to protect. That’s not good storytelling.

The child-killing, then choking pregnant wife, and finally being burnt alive in his fight vs Obi-Wan: all three occur quite quickly in the film. Huh, that is something indeed to think on, I think I’d have to re-watch ROTS again before commenting more (look what you made me do! lol). When I think of more I’ll post it in here.

What are your thoughts on it jinxfan2?

Does anyone know if there more behind the scene videos which also cover the filming of these scenes, to see if others also had some input on the tone and content for these scenes, how they were filmed, or where George talks about the higher age rating for ROTS (and why)?

Post
#1478936
Topic
Crafting the Illusion of a Wider World
Time

LexX said:

Interesting topic and I agree with the OP and other posters as well. Mostly it comes from writing and how all the trilogies have been written in different eras. In the 70s and 80s if you left your hometown without a map you really were lost, and the world was a big place just behind a corner. Now when you have Google Maps, GPS and you can track anyone around the world, this place has gotten a lot smaller. And it shows as the writers are living in this world, everything is a click away so that is how they also write, unintentionally.
The same could be said about many aspects regarding 70s vs. now. Many people for example had military background or at least grew up with people who did. It showed on screen, people respected each other, standed correctly and silent, made no extra remarks or stupid facial expressions, had formal announcements (Death Star, rebel hangar, in combat). Contrast to now when everyone acts like they’re on YouTube, as it’s written.

+2.

Absolutely. The way new places and settings are shown in modern films doesn’t quite have that wonder, uncertainty, the unknown, maybe even a mystery quality, that many earlier pre-digital stories did.

Post
#1478934
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

LexX said:

I’ve said this in many topics but I haven’t watched the PT after 2007. It is possible I once saw TPM on VHS after that for some reason, to check the condition or something. I don’t remember anymore. Anyways, I still remember what happened in them and I can play them in my head if I wanted to (but I don’t), mostly TPM. ROTS I’ve luckily almost forgotton except a few scenes but I would have hard time to explain what happens in what order.
The point is, I love the original trilogy and I remember the time before TPM like it was a full life even though I saw the OT in 1996 for the first time. It was great time all around. After the PT I had lost this feeling. There still were the same movies I loved but with them came this other thing that wasn’t anything like it. So I made the decision, which wasn’t really hard at all, that I wanted that same feeling back where I didn’t know what happened before as that was way interesting that the PT ever delivered. I haven’t looked back since. From a nostalgic point of view it could be interesting to watch them again but I know for a fact that after seeing them the feeling isn’t one bit better than it was before, there no reason for me to disappoint myself as there are much better movies to watch instead.

I feel this is a good take that some of us Star Wars fans have with the Prequels. Why watch the Prequels again when they are not good movies, and take away from the feeling of nostalgia and happiness from other stories we do enjoy in the Star Wars universe?

Or as you say, there are simply many other better films to watch, or re-watch.

Post
#1478933
Topic
Favorite line from the Star Wars saga.
Time

Darth Malgus said:

“I’m a Jedi, like my father before me”

When I hear this sentence I get chills, I almost want to cry, both for the situation in which it’s pronounced, and because I Always think of how Anakin must have reacted when he heard It. He probably thought to himself something like that: “What you’re doing is wrong, and you know it. You can’t bring her back, but you can save your son, the fruit of your love. Save him! Free yourself!”

That is one cool and interesting take on the line, seeing it from Vader’s POV. As well as being a taunt to the Emperor.

Post
#1478277
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show
Time

Darth Retcon said:

A short 20 second video has been leaked on r/StarWarsLeaks. Reportedly it is from a scene in the Obi-Wan series, but may be a fake, or April Fool?

I do not know the spoiler rules for linking a video for this kind of thing. So I have put the link to the video below in a Spoiler. If you do not want to know about this leak or what it contains, then please do not click on the “Expand” button below.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/ttcmav/obiwan_vader_fight_scene/

I clicked on it, and I hope that isn’t real. I am hoping it is a fake, maybe something from a fan film, or something for April 1st.

Post
#1477901
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

canofhumdingers said:

ken-obi said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Tonight I finally noticed something that answers a question that’s bugged me literally EVERY time I’ve watched ESB until now. After Luke flies out the window I’ve constantly asked myself “how did he get his lightsaber back??” when he confronts Vader again. Well I finally got the answer. The lightsaber landed just a few feet away from where Luke pulls himself onto the platform. Never realized this until now.

!

Huh. That is a pretty cool spot. Is that an image from the 2019 version?

Even if that image is from a more recent edition, the lightsaber’s been there since opening day in 1980.

I was just thinking from a brightness point of view to make it easier to see. The 2019 version seems the brightest, and should be the clearer than the previous dvd and blu ray releases? I’d never noticed it before at all, and if I had I probably wouldn’t have guessed it was a lightsaber or anything important 😃

Post
#1477748
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

Darth Retcon said:

Darth Malgus said:

I loved your Padme film title post here: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Alternative-Star-Wars-Movie-Titles-Keep-Checking-the-First-Post/id/13439/page/5#1477322 I was off thinking of other similar film titles for other characters after seeing that. 😃

Thank you. ♥️
But you didn’t answer my question: what is TFN? You said it’s a pro-PT site. I’d be interested in taking a look at it…

Sorry man, I missed that part. It is like StarkillerAG and theprequelsrule said.

There is more about it in the “Fandom Discussion Threads” part of the OT Index thread. TFN has come a long way since, they no longer ban people for talking about the theatrical versions, or for highlighting George’s contradicting claims, or banning people for wanting a gay character in Star Wars or writing about it. They are more relaxed now, with lots more Star Wars around to talk about, but still very zealot-like when it comes to their love for Special Editions.

Lots of TFN posters on here now too and everyone is cool.

Yeah, they were toxic to anyone who discussed the original cuts of the OT, or dare question George on some of his lies and claims. I can remember long standing users there not even getting a warning, just given bans and the threads shutdown or removed. Good to hear they became more tolerant and accepting now.

Post
#1477746
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

crissrudd4554 said:

Tonight I finally noticed something that answers a question that’s bugged me literally EVERY time I’ve watched ESB until now. After Luke flies out the window I’ve constantly asked myself “how did he get his lightsaber back??” when he confronts Vader again. Well I finally got the answer. The lightsaber landed just a few feet away from where Luke pulls himself onto the platform. Never realized this until now.

!

Huh. That is a pretty cool spot. Is that an image from the 2019 version?

Post
#1477423
Topic
Most Powerful Quote in all the Star Wars films.
Time

“The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.”

and

"For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force flow around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship.”
 

The Star Wars Purist said:

“The geography that I stands compares you superior!”
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Star War The Third Gathering: Backstroke of the West

Also a strong contender 😃

Post
#1477366
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

SparkySywer said:

Emre1601 said:

Mental gymnastics and insane stretches have always been required by Prequel fans when in discussion with others who did not enjoy these films or point out the discrepancies between the two trilogies. I am surprised many Prequel fans themselves rarely seem to question why Lucas’ poor writing for the later Trilogy created so many needless plot-holes and contradictions, and still look to use such gymnastics and stretches instead.

This is spot on. I almost feel like it’s a culture within the prequel fandom, because prequel fans talking about the basic plot of the prequels is full of more headcanon than what’s actually shown on screen.

The same for me too.

The effect of each discrepancy is different for everyone, and some are more notable than others. This particular issue with Obi-Wan not being shown to serve under Bail onscreen in the Prequels isn’t a big one for me, though as others have mentioned it was perhaps a missed opportunity given the quality of Jimmy Smits as an actor, and his quite limited role in the films.

The sheer number of discrepancies and contradictions combined does certainly give cause to question why George included so many in the Prequels. I think a lot of us, whatever we think of these films, are a little perplexed on that!
 

To me, the reasoning that because Bail was a Senator and Obi-Wan as a high ranking Jedi served the Senate, does not quite sit right. It is like saying General MacArthur served under the Senator for Alaska in World War 2, which seems off to me. I am not American so perhaps my comparison is not quite correct.
 

Stardust1138 said:

However yes, it’s best to keep the topic to what JadedSkywalker intended it to be. There’s no need to continue saying the same things if words are going to be misinterpreted and given contexts that create further impasses.

I don’t think there have been misinterpretations, but I do want to say thank you for your apology for your previous posts to me, and also your kind PM.
 

screams in the void said:

and Qui Gon was a late addition to The Phantom Menace , a lot of concept paintings by Doug Chiang show that It was just supposed to be Obi Wan by himself . He is even depicted wearing a modified version of Luke’s Jedi tunic , which was what many thought the traditional garb of the Jedi was supposed to be . And 20 years is not that long in the scheme of things …I am 50 years old and remember events from 20 years ago in vivid detail ."a certain point of view " was just something Lucas pulled out of his ass when he backed himself into a corner writing ROTJ , as was Leia being the other/Luke’s sister , as evidenced in the documentary From Star Wars To Jedi The Making Of A Saga .

Obi-Wan on his own, now that would have made for an interesting story in itself. As much as I like Liam Neeson and think he did well with the role of Qui-Gon it is a cool “what if” to think of a film more focused on Obi-Wan and events surrounding those close to him during the backdrop of the lead up to the Clone Wars and events at that time. Maybe with the focus on Obi-Wan more there would have been fewer discrepancies and plot holes between what we were shown in the Prequels contradicting the OT, and Obi-Wan in particular, too? It also makes me wonder how the effect of Qui-Gon being a later addition to the film perhaps had on the coherence of the story between TPM and the OT.

Post
#1477353
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

None of what I’m saying is attacking anyone personally. So I’d greatly appreciate if you didn’t put words in my mouth. Please and thank you.

I agree. I never said you were attacking anyone personally, and have not put words in your mouth. I did say “What you are saying is insulting and a little narrow minded.” and “it seems obvious you have no respect for people with the view that the Prequels were not enjoyable movies.”

I am sorry if that is harsh, but it my reading of what you have wrote about people who do not like the Prequel films, in here, and in the Prequel Trilogy thread.

A newbie doesn’t have that opinion. It’s like a newborn baby. A baby is pure. Just like a newbie to Star Wars or whatever it might be they’re learning about for the first time. I’m simply giving information and tools to make it so what is misunderstood becomes accessible instead of wanting someone else’s viewpoint that reinforces what my opinion is already or becomes other than from George Lucas for example, which is always definitive but evolving as all stories do.

We were all newbies again going into the Prequels. We were all looking forward to them. We all wanted them to be great movies. Unfortunately for many fans this wasn’t the case. Yet we all made our opinions after watching them, whether these were good, mixed or bad. No baggage. No projections. No need to later understand the author’s intentions either.

We haven’t misunderstood them - or simply “do not understand” them. Tools, intentions, a bio on George, visual literacy, additional content and so on are obviously very important to you with these films, and that is great, as you have repeatedly stated many times. But for many fans they are simply not required to like or dislike a film. It feels like I and others are repeating ourselves over and over, but what happens on screen is the most important for many fans. Please stop. Or at least try to respect the OP and stay on the topic of their thread.

Post
#1477300
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

Stardust1138 said:

None of what I’m saying is attacking anyone personally. So I’d greatly appreciate if you didn’t put words in my mouth. Please and thank you.

I agree. I never said you were attacking anyone personally, and have not put words in your mouth. I did say “What you are saying is insulting and a little narrow minded.” and “it seems obvious you have no respect for people with the view that the Prequels were not enjoyable movies.”

I am sorry if that is harsh, but it my reading of what you have wrote about people who do not like the Prequel films, in here, and in the Prequel Trilogy thread.

Post
#1477228
Topic
Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?
Time

Stardust1138 said:

SparkySywer said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Sure, but sometimes you have to step back and say, “Wow, I’m spending countless hours looking for deeper meaning in family space fantasy movies. Maybe I’m no better than the nerds who memorize wikis.”

I think you absolutely can ascribe deeper meaning to Star Wars movies, even the prequels and sequels. The Star Wars fandom wouldn’t be so passionate if this weren’t the case. Star Wars isn’t indie arthouse kino and George Lucas isn’t Francis Ford Coppola, but he was a friend and close colleague of his. Star Wars isn’t Marvel either and Lucas isn’t Michael Bay.

That said, and I truly do mean no disrespect to Stardust1138 (because this is all an internet argument over above average space movies after all)…

Emre1601 said:

Mental gymnastics and insane stretches have always been required by Prequel fans when in discussion with others who did not enjoy these films or point out the discrepancies between the two trilogies. I am surprised many Prequel fans themselves rarely seem to question why Lucas’ poor writing for the later Trilogy created so many needless plot-holes and contradictions, and still look to use such gymnastics and stretches instead.

This is spot on. I almost feel like it’s a culture within the prequel fandom, because prequel fans talking about the basic plot of the prequels is full of more headcanon than what’s actually shown on screen.

All I’ll say is there’s always another side to every story. Everyone gets something different from what they see as we each have different experiences that shape us. We can choose to view something from a more personal perspective or we can view it from a more artistic perspective. I tend to view it from both but I recognise not everyone cares to go down that rabbit hole. That’s there choice but in my humble opinion especially with something as profoundly moving as Star Wars can be I question why you wouldn’t want to understand George Lucas and his point of view but in life you can’t always understand why people think as they do. I don’t know anymore in life if we truly ever understand each other but it’s human sympathy that is more valuable than ideologies, beliefs, and thought processes.

As others have said on here you assume too much. You assume that others have not also viewed the films from different perspective. You also do not factor in it is possible to view the films from such differing perspectives and still not like or enjoy them.

That is quite a narrow and limited view to take.

I would also counter that by saying I think it’s more to do with the perception of how you view the films.

and

It didn’t bother her in the slightest. She’s not been influenced by me or the years of baggage we as a fandom have with it. She’s taking the story as it’s given to her in the order George wanted her and everyone to see it. Perhaps in general that’s a lesson we can all learn from on both sides that we shouldn’t project but share as the author intended versus what is personal to us until after we give the newbie a chance to form their own thoughts.

As above you assume far too much. People have watched these films in various orders, and some will have watched the Prequels before watching the Original films.

“Baggage as a fandom?”

“A lesson to be learnt?”

“we shouldn’t project but share as the author intended”

But these are only taken into account if we didn’t like the films, right? You seem to be of the opinion Star Wars fans turned up to watch the Prequels with a closed mind, already deciding they didn’t like them before seeing them, and knew nothing of George prior to them. Or if they didn’t like these movies they didn’t simply didn’t understand them.

I would suggest you open your mind to what others are saying to you when they are of the opinion they didn’t enjoy the Prequels very much.

What you are saying is insulting and a little narrow minded. Even when overlooking some brief lip service about “all views being respected” in your posts, it seems obvious you have no respect for people with the view that the Prequels were not enjoyable movies.

Post
#1476074
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

Sorry. I didn’t understand any of that.

These might help if you’re open to understanding a creative mindset:

https://youtu.be/O39niAzuapc

https://youtu.be/aDBmH9ntEOA

No, apart from the slighted insult I didn’t understand any of what you wrote there either.

Those videos won’t help me somehow now enjoy the Prequels either.

Why would anyone want to watch YouTube videos, linked from someone who continually insults those don’t like the Prequel films, to somehow now be able to now enjoy the Prequels years after they were released?
 

“It’s not my intention to make you suddenly love them like I do but merely to give you the tools to understand them through the intentions of the collective whole as George intended and what it means to be visually literate.”

Again, you assume that people who don’t like these films don’t understand them? That they require additional information or tools to do that? (And not that we already have this knowledge, do understand them, and decided we didn’t like them regardless. Huh!). That we for some reason also need to “understand the intentions of the collective whole as George intended”?

George said all “these films were made for 10 years olds”, they don’t actually require that much understanding. In storytelling and film making: Show - don’t tell. If the films can’t stand alone on their own two feet they’ve got problems. All the additional series & videos, blogs, articles, PR pieces and links for years on end won’t change whether you enjoyed the films or not. It does certainly highlight the attitude and superiority complex of the Prequel fans who believe those who didn’t enjoy the films somehow don’t understand them, need such additional materials or “tools” or to “understand the intentions of the collective whole as George intended”.

George can’t even remember his own intentions - or keep his own story straight. It is probably why he has been caught out in his lies, retcons and time-travelling so often. Or placing blame at the feet of others for his own lies or shortcomings (including the exclusion or playing down the roles and contributions of others to the SWU). I’m 63 years old and was lucky to see Star Wars in the cinema, the other Originals, and the many other releases, but I also remember the lies, retcons and bullshit from George over the years. Despite this, many years have passed and I’m still a fan of both Star Wars and George, but I also don’t like or enjoy everything Star Wars related. If that includes the Prequels that is perfectly okay.
 

Let’s say you don’t like Doritos. And there are plenty of others chips out there to enjoy. Do you think watching YouTube videos about Doritos will somehow make yourself now enjoy them? Will reading and listening to what the creator of Doritos says about Doritos what his “intentions and how successfully they achieved what they set out to do” make me now like the Doritos chips?

Let’s say you don’t like a film you saw 20 years ago. You didn’t like it and have no intention of watching it again, life is short and there are far more films to watch. Do you think watching YouTube videos about the film you didn’t like 20 years ago will somehow make yourself now enjoy it? (or watching YouTube videos on “Video Literacy” will change your opinion of not liking the film?) Will reading and listening to what the creator of of the film says about it and what his “intentions and how successfully they achieved what they set out to do” make me now enjoy the films?

Of course not.
 

Instead you could have asked what aspects of the films people here did enjoy, or thought were positive. Talk about that, but it now is a little late after you’ve insulted, lectured and patronized them.

As posted previously, there seems little point in continuing this discussion with you, if nothing else but to not further derail this thread. I apologize to everyone if I have derailed the thread or if anyone does not agree with my posts, and I’ll refrain from further posting in here.

If you’d like some recommended reading for a fuller understanding of the actual history of Star Wars (beyond the Prequels; George’s supposed “intentions”, and the cherry-picked & ret-conned “official history”), and haven’t already read these yet, then The Secret History Of Star Wars, Dale Pollock’s Skywalking, and some of the pinned threads on here, are all most informative and may help you see things from a different point of view.

Post
#1476036
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Firstly, if people enjoy the Prequel films then all power to them. It is pleasing that some people enjoyed these films. A younger generation of fans have now come through online: and the young kids who enjoyed them at the time are now grown up and want to talk about them and why they enjoyed them. Good for them.
 

But for those of us that didn’t enjoy them:

George seemed to forget the golden rule of making movies with the Prequels:

Show. Don’t tell.
 

Show: George should have done was delivered on what he promised - the story of a great man and his fall into darkness. Although The Phantom Menace is probably the best of the three films, but it served little purpose in the greater narrative. He could have centered the first two films on an intelligent, thoughtful but conflicted Jedi who was lured to the Dark Side. The third film would have then chronicled the crusade of a tortured, Vader who traveled the galaxy hunting down the remaining Jedi.

But instead George gave us something very different - the adventures of an annoying hot-shot child who got lucky in a repeat of a space battle seen twice before in previous Star Wars movies, who then started a toxic controlling relationship with the mother of Luke and Leia, and somehow inexplicably morphed into Vader. George also gave the audience countless contradictions to what had already been explained and established in the previous Original films.

When you consider what could have been, and probably should have been, it is difficult not to feel letdown. Disappointed. Frustrated. In need of a good Fan Edit or 50! 😃
 

Don’t Tell: Since the backlash on the Prequel films George, Lucasfilm and many Prequel fans has spent considerable time and effort to explain why the Prequel films were what they were, and that people who didn’t like them just didn’t understand them, or that in not liking the films they were being mean to him. Mental gymnastics is required to take George at his word, And that is a problem in itself - George had the opportunity to show us the films he later espoused about, but he didn’t. The quality, the heart, the thrill, the story, the talent, all in abundance in the Originals, just wasn’t there for the Prequels. The later explanations and attempts at reasoning why the Prequels weren’t widely liked mean little to the people who paid their ticket money on these much hyped and publicized films at the time, sat down to watch them, and left disappointed. Or people who just plain didn’t like them or thought they were “merely okay”. Or just don’t want to watch them again.
 

Licensed books, animated and live actions series trying to explain the contradictions and plot holes between the two trilogies really only serve to remind people how poor, lazy and incoherent the Prequel films were. Selective interviews from George with friendly journalists and pre-approved questions, more retcons, extensive PR campaigns, videos, blogs, articles - all trying to justify, explain, or give some reason why the Prequels were better than we think or remember, or that we just didn’t understand them - all fail in their purpose: to get more people to watch, like and appreciate these films.

Why would George and others who champion the Prequels think people who didn’t enjoy these films want to read articles and watch videos and so on, or have it explained to them they were somehow wrong not to like these films? Or that they didn’t understand them? It seems a waste of time and effort to me, and yes, we understood them perfectly fine, thank you. George would probably have more respect from fans if he was more honest, about his own shortcomings in approaching the Prequels and the films themselves. Answer the tough and hard questions, not avoid them. Sometimes films don’t work out - not every film is going to be a smash and that is okay. It is also okay to say you “got it wrong” or could have done it differently. Many of us would rather find other Star Wars content to enjoy, whether new games, books, comics series and films.

Enjoy what you like. Leave what you don’t enjoy behind.

There’s a great documentary about this from History Channel. It’s just the Prequels tend to get more unfairly treated because the media tended to propel the backlash to continue as they attacked Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christensen, Natalie Portman, and Rick McCallum. They attacked George too. Why would they want to listen to people who are going to accuse them of being racists, poor actors, yes men, or out of touch mainly deprived from not giving fans what they want? You get nothing from attacking people personally. Instead that’s exactly what happened and still does with a different group. George did listen to critics but he also recognised most were circlejerking around the ideas of things that just weren’t true about him or his colleagues. Most critics tend to view the films from the view of what they wish had happened in the films versus the actual stories and understanding them for what they are. An artist is equally not obligated to tell you their intentions. Andrei Tarkovsky or even Stanley Kubrick never explained themselves. George doesn’t need to either.

“Many don’t understand the Prequels and even Original Trilogy for that matter.”

“racists, poor actors, yes men, or out of touch mainly deprived from not giving fans what they want? You get nothing from attacking people personally”, and “most critics were circlejerking”

WTF? I just don’t like the films. Like I said before many people just don’t like them too, and has nothing to do with what you listed above.

“Most critics tend to view the films from the view of what they wish had happened in the films versus the actual stories and understanding them for what they are.”

No, they don’t. Critics may offer possibilities and alternative scenarios sometime after - but they can also understand the actual films for what they are.

“Andrei Tarkovsky or even Stanley Kubrick never explained themselves. George doesn’t need to either.”

I completely agree, and said before George “doesn’t need to”, yet George continues to attempt to explain them, retcon them, and bridge them so many years afterwards? Again, show - don’t tell.

"What matters I think though is you try understanding the author’s intentions and how successfully they achieved what they set out to do." and “at least give things a chance from the filmmaker’s prospective instead of brushing them off off and thinking only about what you thought could’ve been better”

No. What matters is people making their own mind up if they enjoyed watching a series of films or not. Again, show - don’t tell.

If people decided they did not enjoy them, they do not need to be labelled or associated with, as you did above, as being inferior minded people, accusers of others being racist, people who personally attack others, or are people who don’t understand the Prequels, or other films. Yes, a minority of those toxic fans exist, but they do not speak for the vast majority of those who simply did not enjoy the Prequel Films. A running theme with your posts is that if people critique the Prequel films (or George) then they somehow do not understand them. So there is no point in continuing this discussion with you.

I am happy you and others do enjoy these films, but the many that didn’t enjoy the Prequels certainly don’t need lectures on how we just “don’t understand them”.

 

SparkySywer said:

Really, I just can’t understand why Revenge of the Sith is considered by anyone to be some operatic masterpiece. The only good qualities it has comes from depicting the interesting events ANH describes, but even then it butchers them. It’s really just an uncompelling story, shot and directed as blandly as possible, with a healthy helping of bloat and a completely tangential VFX reel every 15 or so minutes to make sure you don’t fall asleep.

Fanedits of Revenge of the Sith that cut out the cheese and the bloat completely fail for me because once you cut that out, the movie has very little left.

I agree for the most part of that, especially when depicting the events that are described in the original film (that don’t contradict it). It does feel at times that the filmmakers wanted it to be over and done with, and as long as “the boxes were ticked” it was somehow “good enough”. It seemed very flat and uninspiring, and not at all what you expect for the climax of the final Prequel film.
 

JadedSkywalker said:

Star Wars was from the Adventures of Luke Skywalker. It was about him and he was the main character. Darth Vader wasn’t his father, and there was no long planned out saga of Darth Vader. Vader was Tarkin’s henchmen. With the first film obviously, then Lucas started rewriting from Empire on.

Lucas made it all up as he went. Its very clear he only started writing the prequels in 1994. He never bothered to watch the original movies again to keep continuity.

It certainly appeared that way given the many contradictions, and the mental gymnastics required to even to attempt to make some them more coherent, in the Prequels.

Post
#1475980
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Firstly, if people enjoy the Prequel films then all power to them. It is pleasing that some people enjoyed these films. A younger generation of fans have now come through online: and the young kids who enjoyed them at the time are now grown up and want to talk about them and why they enjoyed them. Good for them.
 

But for those of us that didn’t enjoy them:

George seemed to forget the golden rule of making movies with the Prequels:

Show. Don’t tell.
 

Show: George should have done was delivered on what he promised - the story of a great man and his fall into darkness. Although The Phantom Menace is probably the best of the three films, but it served little purpose in the greater narrative. He could have centered the first two films on an intelligent, thoughtful but conflicted Jedi who was lured to the Dark Side. The third film would have then chronicled the crusade of a tortured, Vader who traveled the galaxy hunting down the remaining Jedi.

But instead George gave us something very different - the adventures of an annoying hot-shot child who got lucky in a repeat of a space battle seen twice before in previous Star Wars movies, who then started a toxic controlling relationship with the mother of Luke and Leia, and somehow inexplicably morphed into Vader. George also gave the audience countless contradictions to what had already been explained and established in the previous Original films.

When you consider what could have been, and probably should have been, it is difficult not to feel letdown. Disappointed. Frustrated. In need of a good Fan Edit or 50! 😃
 

Don’t Tell: Since the backlash on the Prequel films George, Lucasfilm and many Prequel fans has spent considerable time and effort to explain why the Prequel films were what they were, and that people who didn’t like them just didn’t understand them, or that in not liking the films they were being mean to him. Mental gymnastics is required to take George at his word, And that is a problem in itself - George had the opportunity to show us the films he later espoused about, but he didn’t. The quality, the heart, the thrill, the story, the talent, all in abundance in the Originals, just wasn’t there for the Prequels. The later explanations and attempts at reasoning why the Prequels weren’t widely liked mean little to the people who paid their ticket money on these much hyped and publicized films at the time, sat down to watch them, and left disappointed. Or people who just plain didn’t like them or thought they were “merely okay”. Or just don’t want to watch them again.
 

Licensed books, animated and live actions series trying to explain the contradictions and plot holes between the two trilogies really only serve to remind people how poor, lazy and incoherent the Prequel films were. Selective interviews from George with friendly journalists and pre-approved questions, more retcons, extensive PR campaigns, videos, blogs, articles - all trying to justify, explain, or give some reason why the Prequels were better than we think or remember, or that we just didn’t understand them - all fail in their purpose: to get more people to watch, like and appreciate these films.

Why would George and others who champion the Prequels think people who didn’t enjoy these films want to read articles and watch videos and so on, or have it explained to them they were somehow wrong not to like these films? Or that they didn’t understand them? It seems a waste of time and effort to me, and yes, we understood them perfectly fine, thank you. George would probably have more respect from fans if he was more honest, about his own shortcomings in approaching the Prequels and the films themselves. Answer the tough and hard questions, not avoid them. Sometimes films don’t work out - not every film is going to be a smash and that is okay. It is also okay to say you “got it wrong” or could have done it differently. Many of us would rather find other Star Wars content to enjoy, whether new games, books, comics series and films.

Enjoy what you like. Leave what you don’t enjoy behind.

Post
#1475906
Topic
The 'Naysayer Guide’ by people who DON'T want an unaltered theatrical release of the OT
Time

crissrudd4554 said:

I love these two I found on YouTube.

“if you think incomplete, error-ridden, scene missing, awful effects theatricals are better, then you’re either an extreme windowlicker or totally blinded by ridiculous nostalgia.”

“ Why would anyone want the superior versions to die? Sure the original SE from the 90s can die, it’s been improved since then. But even those were better than the laughable theatricals.”

Surely trolls, people just looking for attention online, or to have arguments for the sake of arguing?

Or maybe that new subset of Prequel fan where only George’s latest vision is “the one true superior vision” and all others must be destroyed? Such narrow-mindedness.

Post
#1475751
Topic
Screening of Original 70mm Print of STAR WARS at The Academy Museum of Motion Pictures
Time

alexp120 said:

SOLD OUT!
https://www.academymuseum.org/en/programs/star-wars-017f31fd-10cf-e26f-6c54-ed20a5ac0d79?fbclid=IwAR3kJbDcVz7sj5Ir0XFOurhXtSGncJ59FfeJ0I-4x-2EZruDNvK_njkbMm0

That was quick! If only they would show it more often? Maybe on a wider scale too!
 

Stardust1138 said:

Tobar said:

Just caught wind of this screening to be held on May 31st. Here are the details:

George Lucas’s homage to the pulpy tradition of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon changed the face of cinema and revolutionized visual effects. Combining classic techniques such as matte paintings and miniatures with the then-new technology of motion control photography, Star Wars imagined worlds, machines, and creatures that remain cinematic touchstones. A Best Picture nominee, the record-breaking hit won six Oscars including Visual Effects, as well as received a Special Achievement Award for Ben Burtt’s imaginative sound creations.

DIRECTOR: George Lucas. WRITTEN BY: George Lucas. CAST: Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Alec Guinness. 1977. 119 min. USA. Color. Scope. English. 70mm. Print courtesy of Academy Film Archive. Special thanks to Disney Media and Entertainment Distribution and Lucasfilm.

Very surprising to see LFL allow a print screening. Is there anyone in the area that will try to attend?

This also happened a couple of years ago alongside a showing of Rogue One. They were given permission directly from George that time. I wouldn’t be surprised if they got his blessing to show it in limited releases. It seems to be the same print.

https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/star-wars-special-edition-original-screening-70mm-rare-lucasfilm/

No permission is needed from George to be able to show it.

They were likely just asking for George’s blessing, given the nature and context of the Galactic Innovations event, it would have been very petty of George to deny any such blessing, given the sheer talent discussing and showcasing their work and contributions in making the film:

DavidMDaut said:

captainsolo said:

I too think the asking was more of a formality as I don’t see how there would be any legality binding it to George’s say so since he pretty much signed over everything.

A formality, yes, but I think it’s one they intend to carry forward for the foreseeable future. Lucasfilm doesn’t want to alienate their namesake, and Disney wants to stay on good enough terms with George that he’s willing to, say, come out and give his blessing at the opening of their new theme park land.

From this thread on the 2019 showing:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/70mm-print-of-the-pre-SE-Star-Wars-film-on-Saturday-in-Academy-Theater-in-CA/id/68191/page/4
 

There have also been previous showings of the unaltered theatrical films, some private, some public. I think the private showing in 2016 was reported to also be in very good condition:

 

I hope people from here are going to 2022 showing in the opening post, and will report back on their experiences.