jonathan7

I apologies for having not been around much, and also if this has been mentioned put in action (the thread is now 234 pages long...) But a quick query about Imperial forces that has always bothered me... The Empire has the superior forces so even after the Death Start destruction they should win, would it be possible to show them turning on each other after the Emporer's death? I.e. different commanders trying to assume control and then engaging each other?

Seriously? Ady has got more hate mail? Some people are so pathetic it is frankly unbelievable. I mean its hardly as if he forces anyone to watch his edit. Do they really have nothing better to do with their time than bitch at someone over something they can happily ignore?

I'll obviously move into apparent "fanboy" territory and say I loved Ady's ANH:R, and can't wait for this, and have the utmost faith that along with Harmy's restoration it will be the definitive ESB for me. If that makes me a fanboy so be it... I'm just grateful someone is doing the things Lucas should of done, and removing the things he shouldn't of "improved".

Nebula, I know your banned and probably a sock puppet from that pathetic website with the awful editer for which several members of this Forum are banned. But it just seems to me you one of those editors with a really small penis who feels threatened by Ady's abilities...

Ady thanks so much for doing the edit, I know you'll go on despite the moron haters, but thanks again for all your hard work!

If I may make a suggestion; if the medical droids are re-dubbed could you not do something akin to Bingowings suggestion; have the medical droids say something like;

"As you are aware she is force sensitive, something or someone is slowly draining the force from her. Because of this she is very weak and needs to give birth as soon as possible. This draining effect means she won't heal from the injuries she has sustained; it is predicted she only has a few years to left to live."

I don't think we need all the exposition, especially if cut to Vader, I think the above is enough to make a connection between Anakin living and Padme dying. I would vote against Padme dying in the film given what Leia says in Jedi; could Organa's dialogue be slightly tweaked so he says "We will take Padme to Alderaan she'll be safe there" or whatever it is he exactly says?

Hey, thanks for all your hardwork Harmy! My apologise for asking about a problem on Christmas Eve... I just finished downloading the de-specialized RotJ (DVD9), but the ISO isn't playing ball. Usually I just watch them with VLC, but that for some reason won't play it. Daemon tools, won't mount the .iso and DVD shrink tells me that it can't open it due to an "invalid" UDF filesystem.

Anywone have any ideas?

Moar Tarkin cameo's.... (Quick photoshop example...) I think it would of added a lot more to him in ANH, if you watch 1-6, and give a little example as to why he had some control over Vader. (Click the image to see full size)

MrInsaneA said:

I actually really like the idea of Luke offing Boba as well.

I think it adds to Luke's charachter as well, in terms of charachter ark, you could almost view it as proof that he is now a full blown Jedi. If viewing all films as a six, it obviously shows he has reached a sort of similar ability to say Mace Windu.

Just my two cents here, but I really like the idea of Boba Fett being killed by Luke, think it harkens back nicely to Mace killing Jango. I also would argue to keep the original Luke and Leia conversation rather than changing it...

MrInsaneA said:

Can't tell if cool or ridiculous.

Both images are links so if you click on them you can see the bigger version.... The Temple March one is relatively ok, the Mustafa one is just a cheap and quick mock up. Full Temple march.... (click on picture to see full size). On a slightly different note, is inserting the helmet entirely possible, apart from being painstaking and tedious?

I did have a newbie question regarding why certain things aren't possible. So for an example I quickly whipped up a couple of pictures in Photoshop, I do apologie that they don't exactly look great.

So with one of my suggestions I asked if it would be possible to have Vader "in suit" on the one hand I can understand why it would be impossible to add a whole suit over Anakins robes. But would it not be possible to do something like this;

And this;

darth_ender said:

To Aalenfae and Angel: how difficult would it be to change the background during the lightsaber construction scene?  What I'm thinking is compositing Luke into a Dagobah-like setting.  This would fit in right after Obi-Wan's conversation with him: "Bury your feelings deep down, Luke.  They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."  Cut to Vader in meditation chamber reaching out to Luke, then back to Luke in black robe constructing saber, but still on Dagobah.  Here he could be preparing for the duel Ben just told him about and brooding in his thoughts as well.  I'm not sure I would still keep this, but it seems like it might be an interesting way to keep the deleted scene.  Also, how hard would it be to remove his lightsaber from the preceding Dagobah scenes then?

You could just start the film, with Lukes X-wing approaching Dagoboah, have him in the cave he fights the Vader vision in building his lightsaber (establishing shot possibly used from ESB). Spence's edit cut Obi-Wan Ghost, and Yoda confirming Vader is Luke's father, both are great scene's IMO.

I'd suggest having Luke kill Boba Fett if possible...

MrInsaneA said:

Good suggestion. Jedi and Griveous should have some interaction before Utapau. 

Aye, Grevious needed more screen time really, was also needed in AotC could of done with being on Geonosis and seen killing a few Jedi, but hey that would of actually involved Lucas thinking ahead.... He never seems like much of a threat in the films, unless you've seen the Clone Wars (esp the Cartoons) if you did watch them, he was a massive disappointment in film IMO. Killing Shaak Ti actually makes him seem like a threat, and adds more to the duel between him and Obi-Wan later IMO.

Possible suggestion on the order for scenes on the Invisible hand, I'm sort of considering a fan-edit, but am only in the planning/learning stage. If your ideas are set Aalenfae, please don't feel I'm trying to change your vision for the film, this was just just my thinking.

Hanger Bay enterance... cut the usual stuff (I’d suggest cutting most of R2’s shennaigans). Right after the hanger scene,  add Anakin and Obi-Wan running into Grevious, he executes Shaak Ti, they cut the floor open to escape, Grevious says don’t shoot due to risk of explosion.... Ship attacked...  Anakin and Obi-Wan emerge from hatch (later in deleted scene)..  Anakin seals it (I’d suggest keeping the humour of Obi-Wan saying “it won’t hold”; “Ok I still have much to learn” (adds to the friendshipvelement I think)... Move to Anakin + Obi-Wan attacked by Droidecka’s, enter lift (cut the lift full of dumbass droids which seem unable to shoot before talking)....  Duel with Count Dooku....  Everything I’ve seen of your edit so far with Dooku is awesome!  They head to elevator door...

Cut lift collapsing, though keep ship crashing down.... Next scene have Anakin, Obi-Wan and Chancellor get up outside the lift; elevator charges off; ( – Gives the impression they got the elvator, with explosions going they are getting up from the explosions going off)...  I love pretty much everything you’ve done with the scene after they get off the elevator. Only suggestion I’d make; You could use some of the shot of Anakin and Obi-Wan killing a few battle droids on the bridge and  Nemodians running away from Bridge (gives the impression they’ve stormed the bridge).

Thought it was great Aalenfae, the explosions, I though were much better, agree with others that the audio could do with a little work, but visually very good!

I agree with Erik Storm Trooper, I hate the lift sequence if you could cut it that would be awesome, you could have the call to R2 to get the lift, the ship falling, then the 3 of them falling down by the open elevator door, and the elevator shooting away, giving the impression they just got out, and fell over due to what was happening with the ship.

My other question, is  could you add the Grevious and Shaak Ti deleted scene, before they head of to rescue the Chancellor?? You could cut it right after they cut through the floor and fall through.

darth_ender said:

Oh, I get it now.  I guess my idea was similar, though we would know Anakin is Vader, with the advantage over the original story being that Anakin's fall is more believable.  I'm still trying to think of how we could preserve the surprise in a manner that is more possible.  I'll keep thinking.

By the way, I think I fixed your above quote :)

Yeah, I have a bad habbit of leaving rather important words out of sentances (such as not). I've gone back and fixed my quote, I feared it would not be possible, although I'm just beginning to explore video editing currently, so not really too sue of what's possible or not.

Megaupload? I'd love to see what you've been upto!

Hey, thanks for the reply, glad you think the idea is interesting! =) Must not of articulated myself well in the previous post, I was not suggesting a split personality, but Vader (in the full usual Vader suit) and Anakin both appearing at different times. Not split personality as previously suggested, but Anakin in the Suit doing operations for Palpatine, which we wouldn't realise until the reveal in ESB.

My thinking was of the Vader charachter always being suited, i.e. Anakin wears the suit so no-one knows who he really is. Anakin learns that Palapatine is Sidious, confronts him gets zapped by force lighting and the audience then think he's dead. Mace goes to confront Sidious (he'd have to learn he was a Sith Lord elsewhere)... Mace is about to kill the Emperor when Vader in suits turns up and cuts his hand off... Then the Emperor sends Vader (again in suit) to storm the Jedi Temple.

The advantage of this I think, is it keeps the surprise of Anakin being Vader, especially if you just see Vader in a few shots working with Republic soldiers, while Anakin is still a Jedi. As with the Bruce Wayne/Batman thing you never see them together.

With regards the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight my hope (not sure it's possible) would be to have it Vader vs Obi-Wan... i.e Vader already in suit fighting Obi-Wan, ends the same with Vader getting arms and legs cut off. So his breathing difficulties come from the fight with Sidious... His missing limbs from the fight with Obi-Wan.

So in the integrating the two trilogies thread I had posted this

"For RotS, I'd like Anakin to confront the Emporer/Sidious alone, and end with him being shot by Sidious lightning. "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor or suffer your fathers fate you will" This would be the last time we see Hayden as Anakin (thank God!) - Would be good if when Mace is about to Kill Sidious, Vader in suit chops his hand off, think that would be a great reveal moment, of Vader coming about. Would also love to see more of Vader hunting the Jedi down... Then have Vader invading the Jedi Temple in suit, then also fighting Obi-Wan on Mustafar with Vader in suit. Not sure if any of that is possible, but I can dream :-p. I think the former also solves the whole shock reveal thing of Vader being Anakin. No Padme dying either... For obvious reasons".

However this got my thinking, in relation to another idea in this thread... Split personalities. However instead of split personalities...

Either somewhere in AotC... or RotS credits start with reference to the Chancellor having a personal warrior called Vader working for the Republic to combat the Separatists... Vader is rumoured to be an ex-Jedi. The not exactly possible part would be possibly seeing Vader engaging in combat at some point... Obviously when Anakin isn't doing anything, as they are one and the same, but would be a shock. A bit like say Bruce Wayne and Batman, you never see them together. (and yes I know; how this would be done, or if's possible I don't know).

I think it looked great Ady, the lightsaber burns and the Bespin sky were awesome. I disagree with those who think Vader looks funny, I thought Vader looked awesome myself, but everyone is of course entitled to their opinion.

darth_ender said:

I find your last idea in particular quite interesting with the force lightning.  It still leaves some room for confusion and uncertainty though, as we don't have any indication that Vader was ever Obi-Wan's apprentice, nor why he has a bitter hatred of him at the end fight.  Technically speaking it would take a very talented CGI man and some actor in a costume to pull it off, but it sounds promising.  I still feel that it would be nice to be able to watch the movies 1-6 and not have the Vader/Anakin surprise spoiled, but that may not be possible to pull off effectively.

Hey, yeah it would require a lot of editing, not sure it will ever happen but suppose depends what Ady has up his sleeve for his prequel edits. It does seem a shame to me that the whole shock of "I am your father"is taken away if watched 1-6.  Before the PT, I had always imagined Anakin confronting the Emporer and getting his ass kicked from the aforementioned Yoda quote. I also think it would be much cooler if Mace is about to kill the Emporer and Vader deliberately and knowingly saves him.

One of my issues with the PT is the need to explain everything; i.e. do we really need to see the moment Anakin falls or becomes Vader? Anyway back to your point does Obi-Wan's comment about Darth Vader being his apprentice need to be explained in RotS? Tp me it's always seemed Obi-Wan is trying to spare Lukes feelings, and Obi-Wan knows who Vader is. With regards Vaders hate; what, if Vader (in suit) still had his arms and legs cut off and Obi-Wan leaves him on the shore of Mustafa; a lot of that dialogue I think needs to be cut in any case to make the father reveal later a shock.

darth_ender said:

Can't watch the video at the moment, but I'll check when I can.  Okay, fine, it's a real stance.  I stand corrected.  It still seems weird to me, but I did admit I'm no fencing pro.  It was just an observation, and apparently a pretty ignorant one.  Apparently I'm good at making myself look dumb too.

It's a pretty standard stance for many forms of sword fighting to be honest (I've done a little bit of sword fighting in Aikido and tried out fencing and Kendo). I wouldn't feel dumb about it though, most people don't know much about sword fighting except for what they've seen in films, which are usually very unrealistic (Twilight Samurai and Kingdom of Heaven are two exceptions to that rule).

From my perspective as someone has tried out Sword Fighting (though I'm no expert) the OT fights are a lot more realistic, I posted a Kendo video elsewhere to prove this point. It's actually a lot closer to the Vader vs Obi Wan in ANH, but most people think thats the worst fight of the series.. I think this is more down to comparing sword fights to other films than an actual knowledge of sword fighting.However Star Wars is basically an escape movie, so the sword fights being unrealistic isn't make or break for me, and I think many prefer more fancy fights to the Obi-Wan - Vader one in ANH.

I don't have a great connection atm so can't go looking for another, but a quick "Kendo World Championships" search on youtube should prove example enough for what real sword fights look like. Guess it depends what your looking for, but a lot of the fighting stances in the PT are crap, and would get you butchered pretty quickly. As a side not, Dooku swings horizontally and Anakin's arm gets chopped vertically... How does that make sense?

Moving on, with regards integrating the two trilogies;

TPM; I'd prefer a much older Anakin on Tatooine. I think it would make for a much more realistic romance story, as well as him having an argument with his uncle over if he should join the Clone Wars (to match up with Obi-Wan saying in ANH "did't hold with your fathers ideal's thought he shouldn't of gotten involved". Would also have Obi-Wan as already a Jedi Knight instead of being a Padawan - which removes the whole "Yoda the Jedi Master who trained me" issue. Possibly have the invasion of Naboo as the beggining of the Clone Wars... Would like Anakin to deliberately destroy the droid control ship... L8rtr did do this in his excellent edit, but I think it would be better to remove the "ships overheated" and just have Anakin, skid in, shoot the reactor, then flyout.

AotC; I'd like Anakin, just to have normal Jedi robes, as seen in the original RotJ ghost scene... It would reflect his darkening charachter in RotS that he then changes to the darker ones. Would also I think more sense of the force Ghost of him in RotJ with normal robes.

For RotS, I'd like Anakin to confront the Emporer/Sidious alone, and end with him being shot by Sidious lightning. "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor or suffer your fathers fate you will" This would be the last time we see Hayden as Anakin (thank God!) - Would be good if when Mace is about to Kill Sidious, Vader in suit chops his hand off, think that would be a great reveal moment, of Vader coming about. Would also love to see more of Vader hunting the Jedi down... Then have Vader invading the Jedi Temple in suit, then also fighting Obi-Wan on Mustafar with Vader in suit. Not sure if any of that is possible, but I can dream :-p. I think the former also solves the whole shock reveal thing of Vader being Anakin. No Padme dying either... For obvious reasons.

@MrinsaneA - it took an age, but watched your video, I actually quite like the music you integrated, certainly thought it was better than the original score.

MrInsaneA said:

Does anybody know of footage from other films that would work as establishing shots for INSIDE the Jedi Temple? I want the look of a monastery with a twist. Spiritual and beautiful. I however, don' know where to look for such footage. 

Depends what your looking for off the top of my head possibles I can think of; Lord of the Rings... Especially Rivendale or Minas Tirith may work. Equilibrium, the main hall shots of the Celerics Headquarters? Some of the interior shots of the Emporers Palace in Gladiator? The League of Shadows place in Batman Begins? There are some oriental films such as Hero, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Anna and the King all may also have interior shots which could be used.

doubleofive said:

 

Saves time to modify existing kits than to start from scratch. You do want to see ESBR this decade, right?

 

Good things come to those who wait ;) I do see your point, it was more a scratch build allows you to do exactly what you want to do with it... If you follow, may not allow you to do those things.

Great work so far Ady, really looking forward to see what you do with them! Out of interest what was the reasoning behind going with a kit vs. a scratch build. (I only ask as I've recently been mulling over doing a scratch build of a Star Destroyer).

Bingowings said:

Maul's saber was two sabers locked together which explains how one half continued to work without evoking magic. I learned this on the backing card of some toy or something.

Yeah, I was aware of that, though I always took it as a retcon to explain it rather than something being planned. My reaction when I saw it as a kid was "why's his lightsaber still working?" Which is much the same reaction I still have now. I still think having it stop working would of been much more interesting, and think it would add to Obi-Wan's charachter being a great Jedi.

@WhatisMyName - I think it depends on the kid, that sort of stuff wouldn't of bothered me, but some of my friends kids now, would be really upset by it. Suppose it's much like film certificate's there are 13 year old who are quite fine watching "adult" rated films, while there are some adults who should be allowed near "adult" films...

Hey Spence, just had a thought, not sure if you'll like it or not. But when Maul's lightsaber gets cut in half, could it then not work at all? Maul's death has always bothered me, as has his lightsaber working when chopped in half. Would it be possible to roto out his lightsaber, have him do a couple of back flips avoiding the lightsaber and then have Obi chop him in half?

Would seem a better death to me, and make Obi seem a lot more skilled, given his Master got killed, but then he kills Darth Maul...

Just a thought!

Only one word can describe how epically crap an idea this is. This is a shit idea (apologies for use of swearing, generally I think it degrading, but I was at a loss to think of a word appropriate.

Maul was killed off too early, and his death was awful - if Obi-Wan "had the high-ground" what on earth did Maul have? It would of been better if Maul's lightsaber had just stopped working when it was chopped in two, instead of magically carrying on working...

Somewhat off-topic... I've hard good reports of the clone wars, but some of the plots are awful. Still moment's like this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnZaNNY_arU are much better Yoda moments than anything in the PT films. I just wish in Episode III Yoda and Sidious had a Force Fight, Yoda is about to win then Vader (in suit) turns up, and Yoda has to retreat... Would have been so much better!