logo Sign In

jack Spencer Jr

User Group
Members
Join date
11-May-2006
Last activity
5-Aug-2006
Posts
142

Post History

Post
#210178
Topic
Help: looking for... Fan prequels?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/210178/action/topic#210178
Time
Hey thanks, Hal.

But I'm thinking more along the lines of totally redone vs fan edits. I had considered the fan edit route, but i would have to change so much to get it the way I want it, I might as well just reshoot it. Which, of course limits how I can present it. At best I could *eventually* make an animation...maybe. More than likely I probably won't get past a story synopsis, but we'll see how that goes.
Post
#210156
Topic
Why all the negative coments about george lucas?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/210156/action/topic#210156
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I think that creating a movie is like raising a child. You spend your allotted amount of time creating and shaping it, doing the best you can, working around the problems, in order to release the best product you are able to come out with. At that point, when you release the film, you have to let go of it, and trust that your hard work all this time is enough to let the film flourish on its own. George doesn't seem content with that. Although the child has shown itself numerous times to be more than capable of living on its own, George keeps dragging it back to the nest for a few more crash sessions in "parenting."


Well said.
Post
#210147
Topic
What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/210147/action/topic#210147
Time
Originally posted by: JediRandy
The SE additions really make that big a difference?


Yes. They do. They are the equilient of Christ being married to Mary Magdeline and fathering a child with her. And kids will enjoy the hell out of lots of things. I remember enjoying the hell out of playing outside with a stick. Let's forget about the children because that does not matter. What does matter is that I would not subject my worst enemy to the SE. I wish that would go into the Lucasfilm vault and never come out again.
Post
#210139
Topic
What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/210139/action/topic#210139
Time
Still doesn change that as much as lucas didn't want the OOT available, many here feel the same about the SE's. It's like Max Planck said: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it” I do not want a new generation growing up that is only familiar with the SE.
Post
#210133
Topic
Help: looking for... Fan prequels?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/210133/action/topic#210133
Time

I’m sure this had been discussed to death, but have there been any fan prequel projects? I know of at least one fan script that was written well before the prequels were made and there are a couple fan projects for making minor tweeks to the existing prequels. I’ve been having ideas for a total teardown on the prequels. Starting from scratch and writting them so that they work better as episodes 1, 2, 3 of a six-part series. In short, prequels that do not suck. It is actually an interesting challenge. I’m just curious just how much interest there would be in such a thing or if others had tried it.

Post
#210124
Topic
What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/210124/action/topic#210124
Time
Personally, I think the idea of donating the discs to charity is just dumb. Poor people don't have DVD players. They're poor. They might have a Betamax machine hooked up to their black and white TV, but a DVD player? The food stamps are supposed to be for food. Second, the idea in sending them back is to show Lucas which version the fans want, as per his comment. If we send them to charity, it doesn't send any message, really. That and if we don't like that version, why would we give it to someone else, underpriviledged or not? Would be better to donate the original versions if we donate any at all. That just fits better with our take on things.

Personally, I'm not sure if I'll do anything with the SE disks. I doubt I'd watch them but the idea of sending them anywhere is starting to lose it's luster. Maybe a petition is better than a mass sendback. Less effort on my part, just as good. A mass sendback would only work if enough of us do it and somehow the media gets wind of it. So, ultimately it sounds like a waste of time.

So mine will probably languish in the box just like many of the bonus discs for some of my other DVDs. Content I might watch once and then never again. In this case, just plain never.
Post
#209841
Topic
What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/209841/action/topic#209841
Time
What we could do is play it cagey. Wait and see how this pans out. Hopefully we are numerous enough to make Lucas take notice and if we are and his attitude changes, then fine. If we are numerous and he continues to bash or be dismissive, then we can send them back. If it turns out they don't sell well, then we'll deal with that as it comes. No point making waves unless Lucas decides to make the water choppy himself, right?
Post
#209832
Topic
What are you going to do with your SE discs?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/209832/action/topic#209832
Time
Originally posted by: JediRandy
The OOT DVD's are being released and there's still bitterness. Why?

Oh, I don't know. It might the backhanded comments in his quotes on the release, like he's baiting us. But then, it is apparent you are just a troll. I understand there's a discussion about the immenent release of the theatrical version of Star Trek the Motion Picture on the Trek boards. Why don't you go bother them?
Post
#209829
Topic
Why the first two are better
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/209829/action/topic#209829
Time
I was toying with an interesting thought the other day. Since Lucas originally wrote the trilogy as one big movie, I had thought about how to edit the films together into one big movie. Obviously, to actually do this would require more than just what I am going to go into here, nor do I think it's a great idea, but it is an amusing mental exercise.

Combining ESB and RotJ is the easiest since ESB ends by setting up the begining of RotJ with Luke going to meet Lando on Tatooine. It would take little more than removing the end credits on ESB and the opening of RotJ. Maybe altering some musical cues and such, but that's all.

Wedding ANH to ESB could be done similarly, but then I realised the best way to hook them together...

Cutting out the Battle of Yavin.

I know, I know, but here's the thing: part of the reason RotJ is weaker than the other two is because the Empire built another Death Star. I remember when I first saw that movie and saw that in the opening crawl and at the tender age of twelve I thought it was lame. Another Death Star?? Fresh out of ideas, are they? I think this is because the destruction of the Death Star was meant to be the big finish for the movie/series but since Lucas was not sure if there would be a sequel, he put the big finish here. Lots of stuff should have been in Jedi. Such as Wookies, but they were put into ANH in case there would be no future movies. So, cut ANH just after the gun port scene, editing the dialog to remove mention of the tracking device and such so they the heroes make a clean getaway to the hidden rebel base, which is not on Yavin, but Hoth where ESB opens.

It's not a seemless fit, natch, and I would hate to lose the third act of ANH, but it does show that a good deal of the trilogy's chips were cashed in a little too early, which left the final chapter a tad weak via the law of diminishing returns.
Post
#209108
Topic
Why the first two are better
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/209108/action/topic#209108
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Even as a kid, I had trouble believing that Lea was ever originally intended to be Luke's sister. I didn't understand the huge need for that kind of a plot development either, since it didn't add very much drama to the series. But, in a strange way, it kind of works in the RotJ plotline. Sort of like fate conspiring to defy the emperor. Plus, I loved that gorgeous music JW wrote for the Luke and Lea theme.


Well, it is my understanding that several elements that were intended for the third trilogy that involved a 50-some-odd-year-old Luke passing the torch on to a new hero, elements that included Luke's sister and a final confrontation with the emperor, were incorporated into RotJ. I guess lucas decided he didn't have enough stuff to make a third trilogy or he just didn't want to do it and scrapped the idea. The element of Leia being Luke's sister plays a very important role in the plot, but it is introduced and handled so poorly throughout the movie until that point, it weakens the film. But when Vader learns of and suggests turning Leia to the dark side, it gives Luke that final step towards the dark side before finally rejecting it. This was necessary for the film, it's just a shame the element is a bit unbelievable and didn't really work so hot with the implied romance stuff in the previous two movies, but what can you do?
Post
#208861
Topic
Why the first two are better
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208861/action/topic#208861
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84Yoda instructed Obi Wan. We dont see Obi Wan as Yoda's padawan but he does indeed instruct him, as he claims in ESB. Not a big deal. I think the OT has much bigger holes than this. "Certain point of view" ring a bell? At least we thankfully never had one that bad in the PT.


I think that's the thing about it. Obi Wan effectively lies to Luke about his father and Vader and all that. Why? Because he was hiding the truth from Luke. It was important and that he hid it was important. Wheras who trained or instructed Obi Wan isn't really important.

And, no, I don't think Obi Wan should have wrote Luke a book out on the frozen wastes, but he could have said less. "...there you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi master."

But that would necessitate altering the original trilogy some more which I hate because it's like playing Battleship with someone who keeps moving their ships around. The younglings thing doesn't wash with me, really. But then, I dislike most of the things about the jedi as depicted in the prequels, like how they all dress like dessert hermits and stuff.
Post
#208839
Topic
Why the first two are better
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208839/action/topic#208839
Time
Originally posted by: CO
The PT, Lucas had total control, writing, directing, etc. Are you telling me he was going to make 3 classic movies again? Every series usually stalls at the third movie, it is just inenviatable. And the PT made SW go from really great movies, to fans accepting mediocrity. For the first time you hear fans saying, "Well, no film is perfect," or, "Yeah, the AOTC dialogue is bad, but I am not going to let it ruin the movie, " or "Yeah, Jar Jar is annoying, but you just have to put up with him." The new fans excepted that the movies were not great, and what was on screen was good enough for them. Just notice how they defend Jake Lloyd or Padme losing the will to live, they will come up with anything to justify what Lucas did.


Oh gawd, yes. Some people will say some truely outrageous things. Part of the problem with some of these things is that they answer questions no one asked. Such as, recently on another forum i got a little bit into the whole "Yoda trained Obi-Wan, so who the heck is this Qui-Gon Jin guy??" The response was that Yoda instructed Obi-Wan while Qui-Gon trained him. There's a world of difference!

Yeah, right. World.

Problem is, I don't think there's a single person in the whole world who after seeing ESB and hearing the ghost of Obi-Wan describe Yoda as "the Jedi master who instructed me" thought for even a second "Oh, so Yoda only instructed Obi Wan. I wonder who trained him." It is typical for bad movies to answer questions no one asked. In this review of The Swarm, the reviewr notes the film took time to explain Michael Caine's character's accent but didn't bother with any of the gaping holes in the plot. That and how hard would it have been to simply not make Obi-Wan Qui-Gon's apprentice? Some minor dialog tweaking and it would be done. Peasy easy.

But what really irks me is that the defenders try to take the moral high ground on the basis that they are trying to like something that hating something, regardless of the reasons, is bad. Or something.

I agree that RotJ is the weakest of the original trilogy. The revelation that Leia is Luke's sister was handled especially sloppy. But like you, I allow Jedi to slide a little because it is a follow-up to ESB and the end of the trilogy and it is the same characters I knew and came to love. Which was why the prequels really, really, really needed to be good as there would be very few characters we would recognize as they were not in the OT or were completely different by OT
Post
#208806
Topic
Why the first two are better
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208806/action/topic#208806
Time
I tell you what, man. The prequels have been bugging me lately. I think the real problem with them is how poorly they fit with the original trilogy. There is not clear, recurring villian. Part of Star Wars's appeal was how Vader was always giving the heroes a hard time. The prequel's quasi-political web type thing was not a good substitute.

Worse, I think the prequels also weaken the narrative of the entire series. This is a sticking point for most original trilogy fans who dislike the prequels. It would have been on thing, but since these are numbered episodes, it's difficult to ignore the prequels. But they don't work very well when watched in numerical order. So we original trilogy fans are stuck with episodes 4, 5, and 6 with no hope for a 1, 2, 3 to go with them. It is a series that will never be complete. At least as far as the numbering goes.

That said, the material that appears in the prequels works best as it appeared in the original trilogy. That is, as backstory. As stuff that happened before the movies that we learn about as we watch the movies. That said, there was plenty of room to make a good movie here if lucas had done it right, but I don't think his writing skills were up to the challenge. One thing he needed to do was keep the secrets revealed in the original series a frickin' secret. I mean, finding out that Vader was Luke's father at the end of ESB is kind of lame if we'd already watched his parents fall in love and his dad go evil and become Vader and stuff in the first three movies. It seemed like Lucas was way too interested in showing us stuff to realise that sometimes things should be hidden. Like in the Ocean's Eleven remake. They had a plan and throughout the movie they were doing stuff for the plan, but the audience didn't know how it all fit together until the end of the movie after they had pulled it off. Vader's identity should have been handled like that.

The sad thing is if Lucas had just gone back to his original inspiration, the serials, he would have seen this. A villian (or hero) with a secret identity was standard fare in the serials. Take Adventures of Captain Marvel for example. This one had a group of scientists who had uncovered a powerful McGuffin in an ancient tomb. It turns out that one of them wants the McGuffin for himself, but which one? As a villian, he dons a robe and mask and his voice is dubbed over. Why? I don't know as the villian always sent henchmen to do his dirty work. In any case, the plot becomes a ten little indians as the scientist are one-by-one killed by the villian ("Whelp, I guess this one ain't the bad guy 'cause he's DEAD!") until only two are left. These two, who are roughly similar in appearance, go back to the tomb and with both their faces in shadows, one reveals to be the villian and kills the other. They tended to cheat a lot in the serials, but i think this could have been a useful device in the prequels.

Dig this: set up some guy is bumping off Jedi Knights. Maybe they know the guy's name, maybe not. Obi Wan has two pupils. Anakin Skywalker and... some other guy. We'll call him Qui-Gon Jin Qui-Gon is further along in his training and is chaffing to continue to be under his master's tutelage. Anyway, they attempt to find this jedi-killing guy, right and they go down to a planet with no/poisonous atmosphere and put on breather masks like shown here: here. This will hide their faces so we won't know what happened when one kills the other. Obi-Wan than comes upon the scene but only finds some clothing and lightsabres. Anakins lightsabre. So he thinks the bad guy killed them both until he confronts Vader on the rim of a volcano crater. Vader still keeps his face hidden but does mention to Obi-Wan that he was a former apprentice. We see the realization slowly dawn in Obi Wan's eyes and he whispers "You..."

Now, the point here is that who Vader is remains a secret to those who've never seen the original trilogy. (Don't laugh. More are born every day) And at this point we are sort of led to believe that Vader is Qui-Gon, particularly when Skywalker's son becomes center to the conflict.

This is just my own meager talent assessing and concocting solutions to the problem with writing the prequels to these movies, and how much better they could have been if lucas still had good writers taking his ideas and doing good things with them.