imperialscum

TV’s Frink said:

imperialscum said:

ray_afraid said:

Ryan-SWI said:

ray_afraid said:

I don’t understand why anybody would come here to complain about a movie that is over a year old now. It’s just a movie.

You mean like complaining about a movie that is almost 20 years old?
I don’t think time is really an issue for Star Wars fans wanting to complain about something.

I don’t go to places where PT fans meet to complain about how awful I feel the movies they love are. If it comes up in conversation, I’ll express my feelings. But I don’t go out of my way to constantly tell people I don’t like what they love.

I rarely go into this thread, but anytime I do, it’s the same conversation between the same people. What’s the point?

I do not come here to complain, even though doing so constitutes roughly 94.567% of my posts.

WYSHS

I doubt this thread constitutes even 1% of my recent posts…

Lord Haseo said:

Too bad you can’t set someone “straight” with a well thought out argument…

Exactly. You have proven that you cannot be set straight with a well thought out argument.

ray_afraid said:

Ryan-SWI said:

ray_afraid said:

I don’t understand why anybody would come here to complain about a movie that is over a year old now. It’s just a movie.

You mean like complaining about a movie that is almost 20 years old?
I don’t think time is really an issue for Star Wars fans wanting to complain about something.

I don’t go to places where PT fans meet to complain about how awful I feel the movies they love are. If it comes up in conversation, I’ll express my feelings. But I don’t go out of my way to constantly tell people I don’t like what they love.

I rarely go into this thread, but anytime I do, it’s the same conversation between the same people. What’s the point?

I do not come here to complain, even though this is what this thread is for. However, when someone is praising shitty TFA plot in some other thread I cannot resist not to set them straight. Since I did not want to derail that thread, I simply expressed it here instead of there.

DominicCobb said:

I’m aware of the PT changes, thanks. All the worst changes aren’t PT related stuff though.

Take the first 3 or 4 from my list, add Jedi Rocks and CGI Jabba, and you have the list of the worst changes.

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

So, one quick shot throughout three movies? That barely registers even if you count it.

Is the PT stuff in 04 and 11 really that much more, though?

Hayden as ghost
NOOOOOO
Boba Fett voice change
Emperor change in ESB with distinct PT makeup
Weesa free!
Naboo in the celebration scene
Dug in Jabba palace
and probably more…

ray_afraid said:

I don’t understand why anybody would come here to complain about a movie that is over a year old now. It’s just a movie.
I didn’t care for it, but it didn’t wound me. I was disappointed, but so what? It didn’t erase movies I like so that it can exist. It doesn’t force it’s way onto my tv screen. In fact, TFA has stayed out of my way since I left the theater, but it’s there if I ever want it. Good boy!

I do not really care about the film. However, if someone claims it is well-written, I do feel like I need point out the fact that its plot is horrible.

SilverWook said:

Play nice, kids.

There was only one “kid” not playing nice this time.

Handman said:

In the original two films, it looks like Vader is slowly gaining power, rather than being the right hand of “The Devil”, as you say. His character is pretty different in ROTJ, he doesn’t do any of the dirty work he used to, he just sulks around. It’s odd to me.

I really like the way Vader was written and portrayed in ROTJ. I would say he is way more complex an interesting compared to the first two films. The way he acts can be explained by two aspects. First, Emperor’s presence and power is reflected through his behaviour and it serves as the primary hint of Emperor’s power. Vader is pretty much established as the ultimate badass and seeing him behave like that establishes the power of the Emperor. Second, even more important, it is great character development. It shows that his encounter with Luke actually changed him and that he is conflicted.

DominicCobb said:

For someone who supposedly hates rehashes so much impscum sure does love rehashing his bullshit over and over again.

The truth is not rehashed, it is restated.

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:
Both are suppose to be stories about finding something/someone. KOTOR reflects that in its plot perfectly, while TFA plot is full of random shit unrelated to the main point of the story.

They’re still different stories…just because Shutter Island and The Empire Strikes both have plot twists doesn’t mean that the story elements are interchangeable. This fact doesn’t make any of those films poorly written.

Plot twist is not a plot objective. Plot twist is just a plot element. Plot objective is essentially the most important thing as it defines the plot. If plot objective is finding something/someone, it basically defines that the plot will be a detective/mystery.

Shutter Island and The Empire Strikes Back have completely different plot objectives and therefore plots. Based on that, one is a mystery while the other is an adventure. They are essentially completely different plots, regardless of how many plot elements (twists, etc.) they might have in common. Both are well-written because their plots reflect their plot objectives.

When it comes to TFA, the plot objective is finding someone (detective/mystery). Yet the plot does not reflect that because one third of it goes on about family issues (soap opera), one the third of it goes on about destroying a super weapon (kind of an adventure), and the rest goes on about other random shit unrelated to the plot objective (daily life of Rey, etc.). This a prime example of horribly written/constructed plot.

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

lovelikewinter said:

How was the ending of TFA bad? The final scene with her and Luke was amazing.

It left me with a burning itch to know how their first conversation played out. I think that’s the sign of a good ending but some prefer immediate gratification and that’s fine too.

The whole story is effectively unrelated to Luke. If it was done correctly, Luke’s disappearance would be the central driving force of the plot.

But it was. Your lying isn’t going to change the nature of the matter.

It was not. The film just pretends it to be, while in practice it is a random mess full of unrelated stuff. TFA has by far the worst plot of all SW films. Well if you can even call this messy shit a “plot”.

The plot should have slowly built up the suspense with clues and mysteries regarding his disappearance. Something like that would make the last scene meaningful and make the audience burning with anticipation. As it is now, it is just some random unrelated scene. Truly a horrible ending to a horrible storyline.

That’s one way they could have done it but it definitely isn’t the only viable option of making a plot revolving around finding Luke work. Get your head out of your ass.

Maybe but a random crap wrapped by a header and footer is not a viable option.

I’m not even going to do this. Just like the people who say Kylo whined in the film you’re dead wrong. This is not even an opinion based conversation; you’re just wrong. You can keep lying if it makes you feel but I’m not going to entertain that type of behavior.

Your resistance to the truth is completely futile.

I did not mean the reveal itself but the way the plot is done before the reveal and how it builds up the mystery and gradually gives more and more clues. They could have made Raven a different person that you find in the end and the existing plot would work just as well.

A Star Wars detective film is a nice idea but depending on the execution it could end up being better or worse than what we got. I don’t see it as being inherently better but if you do that’s fine; we’ll just have to agree to disagree as usual. I think the best way they could have done with a story revolving around finding Luke is to have both The Resistance and The First Order have a piece of the map but have a 3rd party have the last piece and the film would be a race to see who gets to this 3rd part first. Instead of clues to where Luke is we would be getting clues to where this 3rd party is while getting information about Luke in general.

If the story is about finding something/someone, it is inherently a detective story. The objective of TFA plot was finding Luke, yet the actual plot does not reflect that at all. As I said, TFA plot is just full of random shit unrelated to the plot objective. Any plot that would take its objective as a central driving force would be fine. In terms of plot construction, you really could do any worse than how it is now.

KOTOR and TFA are very different stories. Just because the KOTOR plot twist can bend both ways so to speak doesn’t mean TFA’s ending can bend the same way. Nor should it because different elements in different stories can mesh in one way but not in other ways.

Both are essentially supposed to be stories about finding something/someone. KOTOR reflects that in its plot perfectly, while TFA plot is full of random shit unrelated to the main point of the story.

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

lovelikewinter said:

How was the ending of TFA bad? The final scene with her and Luke was amazing.

It left me with a burning itch to know how their first conversation played out. I think that’s the sign of a good ending but some prefer immediate gratification and that’s fine too.

The whole story is effectively unrelated to Luke. If it was done correctly, Luke’s disappearance would be the central driving force of the plot.

But it was. Your lying isn’t going to change the nature of the matter.

It was not. The film just pretends it to be, while in practice it is a random mess full of unrelated stuff. TFA has by far the worst plot of all SW films. Well if you can even call this messy shit a “plot”.

The plot should have slowly built up the suspense with clues and mysteries regarding his disappearance. Something like that would make the last scene meaningful and make the audience burning with anticipation. As it is now, it is just some random unrelated scene. Truly a horrible ending to a horrible storyline.

That’s one way they could have done it but it definitely isn’t the only viable option of making a plot revolving around finding Luke work. Get your head out of your ass.

Maybe but a random crap wrapped by a header and footer is not a viable option.

Take a look at KOTOR how this kind of thing (mystery, suspense, etc.) is done properly.

A plot twist and finding a character at the end of a story are two different things man.

I did not mean the reveal itself but the way the plot is done before the reveal and how it builds up the mystery and gradually gives more and more clues. They could have made Raven a different person that you find in the end and the existing plot would work just as well.

Alderaan said:

Yeah but when you hire a movie star for tens of millions of dollars, you have to rewrite and tailor the entire script for him. The biggest problem with TFA is all the unnecessary screen time that Harrison got. The nonsense with him and Leia and their “son” was just a waste of time.

It was not just a waste of time but it completely ruined the plot, like many other useless elements like super weapon, etc.

Lord Haseo said:

lovelikewinter said:

How was the ending of TFA bad? The final scene with her and Luke was amazing.

It left me with a burning itch to know how their first conversation played out. I think that’s the sign of a good ending but some prefer immediate gratification and that’s fine too.

It did not leave even the slightest desire to hear them talk because TFA storyline is utter shit. The whole story is effectively unrelated to Luke. If it was done correctly, Luke’s disappearance would be the central driving force of the plot. The plot should have slowly built up the suspense with clues and mysteries regarding his disappearance. Something like that would make the last scene meaningful and make the audience burning with anticipation. As it is now, it is just some random unrelated scene. Truly a horrible ending to a horrible storyline.

Take a look at KOTOR how this kind of thing (mystery, suspense, etc.) is done properly.

ray_afraid said:

I have a feeling that the lava planet was added later and the original idea was that Vader was on a Stardestroyer. I don’t have much to base that on, so I could very well be wrong.
It would have been nice if he was on his big Destroyer from ESB. I know some would complain that it would ruin that ships reveal in ESB, but I see this film as a bonus story to the OT, not something to watch before it.

Well it would certainly be nice to see executor in R1. However, I have always assumed that it was constructed sometime between ANH and ESB, since Vader’s flagship was a normal ISD in ANH.

Still I would personally prefer if they met on a ship (even if just ISD) instead of lava planet. It would give the feeling that Vader is constantly doing something instead of sitting somewhere.

I prefer 97, no doubt about that. 97 is a proper special edition, while 04 and 11 were just an excuse to insert PT crap into OT.

EoD is pretty much the best Star Wars documentary. I enjoyed it a lot.

It was not merely about “making more money”. It was about 4 billion investment. I guess they wanted to go by the “proven recipe” to ensure they did not throw away 4 billion. Yet again, they should not have worried as PT had already proven that if you attach “Star Wars” label just to any kind of shit it will make tons of money. TFA proved that once again.

We may never know who actually decided to completely rehash OT and it is quite irrelevant at this point. What matters in the end is the fact is that they ended up completely rehashing OT, in a bad way.

I still think that a list of elements that the story had to contain probably came from higher-ups. I still cannot believe that either JJ or Kasdan would be so unoriginal and willingly completely rehash OT.

darthrush said:

The cities I believe are warranted because in the 97 SE, there is only ONE planet that we haven’t seen but we can come to assume that in the vastness of this galaxy that it is a big city planet of great importance. And I’m looking at this through the eyes of only the OT. If you watch the full saga, this isn’t even an argument.

The other two cities in the 97 SE are a wonderful addition cause we go back to planets that we saw under imperial control, and to see them liberated makes the ending all the more meaningful and cathartic.

That is what I said:
http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1054539

Ryan-SWI said:

imperialscum said:

The reality is that plot-wise PT and OT are two very separate stories. They are two trilogies in the same universe, focusing on two different things.

That’s just like, your opinion, man.

No, that is the truth.

Ryan-SWI said:

His decision to turn it into a 6 part saga was at least the moment he titled ESB “Episode V” in the crawl.

He used EP V not because he wanted to make 6 part saga at that time but because he wanted to make 9 part saga.

it’s a six part saga that is meant to flow together.

Well I do not know how it was meant to be but the reality is that at the moment PT does not flow well with OT.

It’s not some subjective idea to be argued over whether or not Lucas wants I - VI to be considered one long story, it is a fact that Lucas wants I - VI to be considered one long story. You don’t have to agree, but that’s not the point.

It is completely irrelevant what Lucas thinks or wants. The reality is that plot-wise PT and OT are two very separate stories. They are two trilogies in the same universe, focusing on two different things.

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

From what I’ve heard Looper is a very interesting movie so if anything we should be getting a “radical” film.

What a naive thinking. It will be Disney/LF who will specify what kind of film it will be.

They wouldn’t hire someone like this if they didn’t want to go in an interesting direction. If they really wanted more of the same they would have probably would have went for a more run of the mill director.

I would not call Kasdan “run-of-the-mill” writer either and yet look at how TFA turned out.

Frank your Majesty said:

Something else than sitting around in Ewok village, twiddling her thumbs? Yes, please.

Like destroying the shield generator? Oh wait, that is what she is doing already…

When I said “something else” I was referring to her romance subplot.

darthrush said:

Today I was thinking about how Return of the Jedi could have been written differently for Han to have a better arc and I had an idea which would be to actually see him and Lando begin to reconcile with one another slowly throughout the movie. Lando would help save Han like in the original but Han would still be somewhat salty towards him. They could have an argument scene where it is obvious that Lando wants to make it up to Han. He could consistently start to rebuild his friendship with him throughout the movie. They would be put as co-pilots of the falcon together in the final battle and they would both combine their skills to take down the death star reactor and you could get a really fulfilling moment where we see them truly happy and finally friends again in the moment of victory and pure joy. So then when we see them embrace during the ending celebration it would really hit you even harder on an emotional level.

How romantic. So we need something else for Leia’s character in this scenario then.