idir_hh

RogueLeader said:

Don’t get me wrong krausfadr, if I had to pick between “Rey Palpatine” and “I killed your parents”, I would still vote for your idea!

Every alternative to Rey Palpatine is going to have issues, and I think it is worth pointing out what the issues might have to be addressed to get it to possibly work. Like, if Kylo is going to admit he killed her parents, you have to decide why he decides to tell her the truth now, how does her knowing the truth benefit him and his goals. Does Kylo admit it with regret? Does he confess once he realizes Palpatine has been manipulating him all along?

I was originally thinking that a vision of the future could be what drives Rey to want to personally kill Palpatine. Maybe Rey and Kylo both have visions that Rey, and the Resistance, are going to fail. She could have a vision that the Emperor will kill Poe and Finn, her new family. The vision could show flashes of the battle, lightning coming from below. We could use the shot of Snap’s X-Wing crashing to show Poe dying in the vision. Then create a shot of Finn on the Star Destroyer as it explodes in mid-air.

Kylo Ren could tell her, “You will fail, Rey. Your friends will all die. We can only defeat him together. Join me.”

This vision would be what makes Rey want to personally kill Palpatine.

EDIT: I know it’s a joke but mad libs is an accurate description of what we’ll be basically doing to Kylo’s dialogue for this movie. 😂

Agreed, any alternative to Rey Palpatine needs to push her character forward.
While we are on character motivations I think we need to address the prelude to the duel on the deathstar, specifically Rey’s motivations for attacking Kylo, getting angry at kylo for braking the wayfinder does not substantiate a fight to the death in a drawn out, rage filled “final duel”, the duel needs more substance behind it, kylo revealing to Rey that he killed her parents on the deathstar would warrant such a response but how to go about that is a different story and lets not forget the prospect for any romance between them would go straight out the window.

StarkillerAG said:

idir_hh said:

I find that taking out Rey palpatine leaves little to no personal stakes/conflict between the main protagonist and main antagonist since there is no personal connection.

But does there need to be a personal connection in order to have stakes and conflict? Palpatine wants to destroy the entire galaxy. That should be enough of a reason for Rey wanting to confront Palpatine, instead of a shameless ripoff of Empire’s plot twist.

Sure the Emperors ambitions of galactic domination are sufficient for an overarching conflict, on a character level though it leaves much to be desired. By all means I despise Rey palpatine as much as the next but taking it out of the movie without a substitute for personal conflict would make the film quite bland…me thinks.

I find that taking out Rey palpatine leaves little to no personal stakes/conflict between the main protagonist and main antagonist since there is no personal connection.

Rey’s father being a clone really weakens the “stronger than blood” theme, first we get the “muh parents where good” spiel and now this, I find that they’re very persistent in undercutting Rey’s character arch.

Some more info from the novelisation
(from reddit)

After Palpatine realises that Ben and Rey are the dyad, he reminisces about the time when he wanted to create a Dyad between himself and Anakin. Darth Plagueis also wanted a Dyad between himself and Palpatine. This is because the power of the Dyad is just so powerful, more so than any Rule of 2 concept. Except Palpatine and Plagueis obviously failed. Ben and Rey’s Dyad is referred to “their power”.

Leia doesn’t want to make same mistake with Rey as she did with Ben, so wont send her away.

Kylo says he wants to rule side by side with Rey when Palps orders him to kill her. Kylo had no intention of killing her. Kylo reconstructs his helmet because it’s a KOR tradition or something to wear the helmet. Kylo has to scavenges the pieces.

Kylo interrogates Chewie when he’s taken captive. Kylo goes into Chewie’s mind and Chewie is throwing memories at him. Han and Chewie when they’re young, Han and Leia cuddling baby Ben, target practice with blaster, Ben used to call him “Uncle Chewie”.

Lando has a missing daughter. Lando finds a holo disc in a secret compartment on the Falcon, the holo is of Chewie holding baby Ben. Baby Ben is giggling and pulling on his fur.

Rose and Rey scene. They’re clearly very good friends. They hug.

The reason why Leia’s health is deteriorating so quickly is because when she got blown out of space in TLJ there was damage done to her body.

Luke is speaking to Leia all throughout the book telling Leia it’s “time[to go]” she resists the whole book. She thinks about Luke’s last effort to save the resistance in Crait was his ultimate act of hope and sacrifice for Ben. Leia wants to talk to Ben one more time. Leia says something like “I’m Leia Organa Skywalker Solo” - she wants Rey to take up her Skywalker legacy, Ben to take up the Solo legacy, Poe to take up Organa legacy and with all her power she puts in her hope that this one last time will bring Ben back, and it does.

Rey is already building her own lightsaber.

There is so much Reylo in the book, when you get to the kiss, “gratitude” is used becus he just brought her back to life, but there is so much How they feel about each other, what they think about each other, feels like a straight up YA novel.

‪Force sensitive Finn still not outright but heavily implied. Rey mindtricks Finn in Pasaana. Rey knows Kylo is coming and Finn doesn’t want Rey to go, so Rey has to mindtrick him. ‬

Finn worried about Rey a lot. Says “They started their friendship saving each other”. Rey says something like “Finn would have been a great Jedi” ( host paraphrasing)

As part of his contingency, Palpatine prepared a clone before being yeeted down the shaft as he sensed the flicker of light within Vader. Before his body hit the ground he had learned to project his essence into one of the Clones. This was an imperfect clone. Palpatines son (Rey’s father) is also a clone. The son is one of the clone projects of Palpatine, because they kept trying to make a body for Palps to contain his power. The son is a perfect bodied clone. Palpatine hated the son for being a failure as he had no Force abilities. Palpatine wanted Rey because she was… naturally conceived?

There is also somthing about Plageuis trying to create a clone and failing or something. Lol Clone obsessed!
https://i.redd.it/bvbqius37jk41.jpg

Gimpy said:

I was thinking that it would be an interesting idea to splice the Canto Bight footage/plot into a larger Star killer base narrative. Maybe the exterior shots of the base could be re colored on 1/2 of the matte to make a new matte where we have 1 planet with a diverse biome snow/tropical.

Rather than Star killer merely being just another super weapon, it would act as a hub of the Imperial Remnant’s power and population. Willing participants and loyalists participate in a Fascist regime because it benefits them, or maybe certain galactic inhabitants feel safer. The reason the Republic does not act is because of a potential M.A.D. situation.

Imagine setting this up in the crawl. A stalemate between the Republic and the remnant where the imperials argue “super weapons were bad in the hands of Palpatine, not reasonable people who just want safety that the Republic has not been able to provide with years of galactic rule.”

You could also cut in some of the kajimi footage from episode 9 (of troopers walking in the Snow,) into the Canto Bight footage to make an Imperial presence there clear. Even some of Snoke in his gold bathrobe would make more sense if you could imply that he is ruling a willing bunch of people.

If there was anything that was lacking explanation in these new movies it was an explanation of how the 1st order went from being portrayed as a small radical faction (like Nazis in Argentina) in VII to being the new empire. How did they pay for new ships? How did nobody notice a planet sized super weapon where Illum was? These new films require way too much supplemental material.

If you could frame Canto Bight as being just part of the Starkiller installation, now we have a super weapon that plays host to the supporters of imperial rule. The population knows its a super weapon, but since they are given bread and circuses they don’t care.

Wonderful idea, though fitting it in pacing/character wise into TFA would be quite the challenge.

NeverarGreat said:

I like the creativity of this idea, but if the base were home to a large civilian population, it would cast the Resistance in a pretty terrible light to nuke the whole thing.

Technically they’re backing the bad guys so I’d probably give the resistance a pass on that.

Full interview with Ian here [HQ]
https://youtu.be/orSF0EvYRD4

If I remember correctly he also reported a long while back that Matt Smith played a young Palpatine -post rejuvination- that was killed by Kylo but than his spirit possessed him and Kylo asked Rey to Kill him so that his spirit would die forever.

EDIT: found the link https://makingstarwars.net/2019/04/huge-rumor-about-how-the-final-duel-in-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-plays-out/

-The rumor is that Matt Smith isn’t Palpatine reborn or rejuvenated but a dark side acolyte.
-However, during The Rise of Skywalker, Smith’s character is willfully possessed by the spirit of Emperor Palpatine.
-During the final act of the film Rey and Kylo team up to fight the Palpatine possessed Matt Smith.
-The two-on-one duel is pretty intense for the duo.
-Eventually Kylo Ren kills Palpatine’s host body
-Palpatine’s spirit then jumps into Kylo Ren’s body.
-Kylo Ren is strong enough to not lose total control of his mental faculties.
-Kylo Ren struggles to take control of his body but subdues himself and his weapon while beckoning Rey to kill him.
-Kylo does the right thing and becomes Ben Solo again as he sacrifices himself to kill Palpatine.
-Rey having never toyed with the dark side like Kylo Ren and the acolyte did means Palpatine has body evil enough to
inhabit.

Kylo’s mouth is masked by his arm for most of his dialogue with palpatine so he could say something akin to “you’re just a clone” than cut to palpatines with his hands raised up saying “more than a clone, less than a man” and continue with his spiel about Rey and the new empire - leave the destroyers rising till the end of the scene.

Ian McDiarmid discusses Palpatine being a clone + deleted lines
https://twitter.com/senatesidious/status/1233995580709449729

Ian said that in the “original script that is no longer with us” (hmm) Kylo points out Palpatine’s a clone, and Palpatine responds:

"More than a clone… less than a man.

Ian says it in character so that audio could be used in an edit at least.

Thankfully the change can be reversed to its original intent without too much difficulty.

Yeah it’s palatines voice inside kylo head, the dialogue goes something like this :

Palps -“the jedi apprentice lives, I hope you’re not trying to decieve me, dont make me turn my fleet against yours”

Kylo -“I know where she is going”

Palps -“good, kill her!”

shhh don’t ask just consume.

Kylo Ren seeks out THE SITH MASTER Tor Valum (FanMade audiobook excerpt)
https://youtu.be/XiUqPZjqyCA

Just skimmed through the TROS visual dictionary and lo and behold it explicitly says that the Sith loyalists took Palpatines body to Exogol and through “Science and occult” they brought him back to life.
Lucasfilm can’t decide which is it, clone or alive?
What happened to “an interconnected and consistent Canon”.
Such a shame, they’ve just thrown in the towel I guess.

In the original cut of the film his spirit latched on to his dead corps but it could no longer contain him, he needed kylo to bring him Rey so that he could feed off of the dyad, he posed himself as a dying man who wanted to pass off his empire to kylo And Rey but would later reveal later reveal his masterplan in the climax of the film. This was apparently changed late in the game to give Kylo more agency by making him the only one that knew of the dyad but this change sacrificed palpatines cunning and turned him into a Bmovie villian

Unreservedly loved the Sith statues in the the temple, made me want to play Kotor right after.

Ah I misread your comment, The way they addressed it is so half arsed and contrived that yes it would have been better if left ambiguous.

Problem is they ended up explaining it.
In a book…

IlFanEditore said:

This attitude is unbelievable for such a big, mainstream blockbuster.

Its a circus, the new CEO needs to start cleaning house at Lucasfilm.

Im now of the opinion that JJ had no clue what the explanation for his return was, throwing possible answers here and there but not sticking to one ex: random rebel “cloning, dark magic, secrets only the sith knew” (classic jj), early leaks stated that palps revealed to kylo that his body actually survived the fall so I guess they only decided on the explanation after the film was released and snuck it in to the novelisation.
Sigh

According to this page from the novisation The Emperor in TROS was (eyeroll) a clone.
https://i.redd.it/kqcgrp5r0wj41.jpg

I have my problems with TLJ but I hope Johnson gets his trilogy. In retrospect TLJ was the only film in the ST that had a backbone and a clear vision. I’m sure if you give him a clean slate he could come up with something incredible, he likes to decunstruct stories so I’d expect something along the lines of KOTOR 2 theme wise.

Alternatively you can have a combination of both sabers and blunt weapons.

Hopefully the guys at immersionvfx give them lightsabers for the Exogol fight.