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hairy_hen

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27-Mar-2006
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11-May-2023
Posts
1,609

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Post
#389305
Topic
Petition for the Theatrical Cuts of the Original Star Wars Trilogy on Blu-ray
Time

This petition is a great idea and excellently worded.  I added a comment to my signature about staying true to the original colour timing and including all the sound mixes (70mm especially, with its superior dynamics and so forth).


Don't mean to be negative, but some of the comments on the petition really aren't very helpful and kind of undermine its usefulness.  One asks for the original version where Vader doesn't straighten out his TIE fighter at the end.  Huh?  Clearly faulty memory syndrome is at work here.  Others are pushing the boundary between what could be considered respectful and what is insulting (and would make them that much less likely to take it seriously).  Not that they'll get looked at very closely by LFL anyway, but still . . .

Post
#388165
Topic
¤ THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK ¤ The &quot;OPTIMUM EDITION&quot; <strong>Score Reconstruction, Remixing &amp; Restoration</strong> Version 3 (Released)
Time

I haven't listened to all of this yet, but what I have heard sounds extremely good.  The sound quality of my setup has improved somewhat lately, and hearing the added clarity and presence of these mixes--owing largely to the superiority of many elements of the older versions used--has been a real treat.  I never really knew anything was wrong with the SE versions until I heard what ABC had done with them, at which I point I decided I had little further use for the SE's beyond proving that I had purchased an official copy, since they tend to be harsh in comparison.  This version seems to be even better--I particularly appreciate the removal of some hard cuts in the editing.  I'll post again when I've had more time to listen to all the various nuances.  Thanks for the great work, ABC!

Post
#385424
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

I saw the Toy Story 3D double feature in the theatre . . . it was a lot of fun.  The effect was subtly convincing enough that seeing them in 2D looks kinda strange now, lol.  I hate having to wear bulky 3D glasses over my regular glasses, that makes it problematic, but aside from that it was great.  Awesome sound in 5.1, too . . .

That said, I don't think I want Star Wars to be put into 3D.  For one thing, I don't trust them not to eff up the films even more in the process; for another, they'd probably use that crappy 2004 sound mix and rubbishy colour timing.


Damned clones . . . real stormtroopers aren't clones.  And neither is Boba Fett, so there.  :p

Post
#384377
Topic
1997 Special Edition Musings
Time

Steve Hoffman, famous mixing engineer, was lucky enough to see a privately-owned 70mm print of the original Star Wars last year.  His comments suggest that this version is the best the film has ever looked or sounded.  http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-141011.html

Here are some 70mm film scans--they'll give an idea of what he might have seen.  Some are degraded but most look pretty good.  Note the natural colour scheme and great image detail (and lack of horrid blue-cast).  http://www.jedi1.net/default.aspx

Interestingly, Hoffman says that the picture quality of the '97 version wasn't nearly as good as what he saw, and that the audio, too, is inferior.  Having now heard the 5.1 mix of the '97 ANH, I can confirm that it does not have as much dynamic range or as good of sound quality as the 1993 mix, which is largely derived from the 70mm soundtrack.  This has nothing to do with the fidelity limitations of 384 kbps AC3 versus uncompressed PCM; it is due to the quality of the elements used.  The '97 version has noise/hissing during dialogue, particularly noticeable in the beginning of the movie, though it clears up later on.  I suppose its less dynamic nature is probably due to concerns about the quality of the sound elements if turned up too loud.  Given that, I can understand why they wanted to remix the movie for the '04 dvd . . . but they completely botched the opportunity to make a really good-sounding version.  I'd far rather listen to the slightly degraded but still mostly authentic-sounding 1997 version than the muffled, distorted, flat-out wrong 2004 mix.

Note that while it is less dynamic than the 70mm version, the SE mix still has higher peaks than the 35mm mix.  The LFE channel is used rather conservatively, only coming on strong in a few places, some of which coincide with alterations to the special effects.  By contrast the '04 version has very strong LFE in several scenes, though some instances of 1993 bass are not present in either.

The sound elements of Empire and Jedi were in better shape, and the dvd versions are largely unchanged from their '97 incarnations except for specific things here and there.

Post
#384222
Topic
***The &quot;Darth Editous&quot; Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially &quot;de-specialed&quot; DVD
Time

I agree with DE that de-saturation should not be taken to extremes.  Looking at 70mm film scans you can see that there was a lot of natural colour and life in the film originally, and making it look too black and white in an effort to get rid of the artificial photoshopped look isn't really much of an improvement.  Dialing down extremes of blue casting is definitely important, but certain things like the Death Star already did have a bit of a light blueness to them originally, and that shouldn't be completely removed.  Oversaturated reds are often seen throughout the '04 version as well, and are in some need of adjustment, but again extreme measures need not be taken.

Post
#383360
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Time

I watched the whole thing today with my girlfriend.  I probably enjoyed it more, since she was a bit put out by some of the alterations to things that had never bothered her to begin with (like getting rid of the Yoda fight), but we both liked it.

The biggest improvement to me was that Anakin no longer comes across as 'creepy stalker guy'.  I accepted his interest in Padme--and more importantly, her interest in him--and never felt that it was awkward or uncomfortable the way it is in AotC.  Getting rid of his petulance and giving him better dialogue improves the romance immensely.  The reinstatement of several deleted scenes strengthens Padme's character and their relationship along with it.

As far the quality of the Anakin dub . . . it works.  Sure it could use some improvement of integration into the sound field, and a few lines here and there could be re-done, but honestly, I only found myself thinking about the fact that it was a dub a few times while watching.  Mostly, it disappeared into the film and just seemed right, which is also helped by the dialogue improvements.

I liked the dream sequence--it reminded me a lot of Hitchcock's Vertigo.

The other big improvement to the movie came with the music editing.  I don't know why they hacked up the original score so much in the finished film, but that problem is completely gone here.  I especially liked the appearances of music from Raiders of the Lost Ark, which made some formerly dull sequences come alive with tension and excitement.  The new title music is cool too; I don't remember what piece that is, but you can hear the Star Wars theme's resemblance to it, and it makes a nice change since we've all heard it so many times.  A particularly good transition came in the kiss scene on Naboo--going from the love theme in Episode 3 to another piece (I didn't recognise it, but it's good) was quite smooth due to the commonality of the key signatures.  I liked the feel of that scene, too: it resembled a film from the 30's or 40's.  Occasionally I found myself paying a bit more attention to the music used than to the film itself, but that's just because I am a music fan and focus a lot on that sort of thing anyway.

I'm not quite sure what C-3PO was trying to say when he first showed up.  That seemed strange, but we both laughed out loud when Owen said he couldn't even speak Bocce.  :)

The end battle sequence is pretty rough, obviously, but I could definitely see what it was trying to convey.  The dubbing of the stormtroopers sounded odd and kind of distracting (as were the shots from Independence Day, though I imagine those are only meant to be temporary placeholders).  In general, I felt that the quality of the cutting was good, and improved as it went along.  The confrontation with Dooku almost works.  Anakin completely disappeared when Yoda showed up, only to suddenly reappear and get chopped, forcing Yoda to save them very quickly.  That fast pacing would be perfect if not for the disappearing act just prior, but due to the limitations of the existing shots I'm not sure what can be done about it . . .

The last time I watched AotC I remember thinking that one of the only good things about the movie was the enormous bass presence from the LFE channel, which made the explosions and lightsabers and ship engines extremely powerful.  Perhaps even too much so at times, but it made things at least somewhat interesting to listen to.  It would be cool to have some of that in a final version, but that's a relatively minor point.  On a sound related note, the inclusion of saber and engine effects from the original trilogy helped give it more of a Star Wars feel--these sounds were familiar and right, as opposed to the foreign and strange sounds that fill the prequels in general.

Obviously, the movie is still derived from AotC, so there is only so much that can be done with the story.  I still prefer Timothy Zahn's original idea that the Clone Wars were fought by the Republic military against the 'clonemasters' who were trying to take over the galaxy; but obviously it's impossible to change the nature of the story that far.  Overall I found this to be an excellent new take on the film, somewhat akin to the way the Richard Donner version of Superman 2 improves drastically on the botched original release.  Trooperman, if you ever have the time and energy to finish this, it would be nothing short of fantastic!


Oh yeah, that Jar Jar dub . . . who the hell came up with that craziness?!  lol  I couldn't help but laugh when I heard it, because I'm always uncomfortable hearing my own voice, and can't judge it objectively.  My girlfriend didn't recognise that it was me, I guess because of the faux Britishness.  Some have liked it, some haven't . . . I'm quite willing to take another stab at recording it.  Pitched down as it was, I didn't even recognise myself in Mas Amadda's voice--I think that one probably worked better than the Jar Jar.

Again, awesome job TM!

Post
#382407
Topic
Help: looking for... &quot;EPISODE IV: A NEW HOPE&quot; Crawl?
Time

As evidenced by the screenshots above, despite using the Episode 4 A New Hope crawl, the special edition star field is the same as the GOUT, which is from '77.  So they just composited the newer crawl onto the original star field.  Except that the stars are somewhat dim in comparison to how they should look, for some reason.

Post
#382378
Topic
***The &quot;Darth Editous&quot; Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially &quot;de-specialed&quot; DVD
Time

I quote what I posted elsewhere on this site since that sums up what I think of the 2004 version pretty well:

I didn't sour on the SE's until the '04 dvd's came out.  Having a fairly keen ear for sound, and a good memory of the various nuances of the soundtracks, everything about the terrible ANH remix grated on me, and I don't just mean the obvious things like missing music.  There's something "off" about the whole thing, which is hard to describe but definitely there.  Much of the movie sounds as if it's been EQ'd towards the low end, giving it a muffled and distorted sound--you can especially hear this in the opening Star Destroyer flyby and the first stormtrooper shootout.  Most of the Star Destroyer bass is supposed to be a 40 hz effect, but the '04 plays that down and emphasises a 60 hz tone in the mains to an unreasonable degree, while the strong higher frequencies that characterise the '97 mix in particular are practically unheard.  Add that to missing laser blast sounds, background effects mixed far too loud, sometimes to the point of overpowering things that should be more prominently heard, wildly fluctuating quality of dialogue (announcements on the Death Star intercom actually being too clear, while people speaking onscreen are muffled), weird extra hissing and static added to the lightsaber duel, the music in general being too quiet--the result is an abomination, one that is practically unlistenable.

To add some more specifics to that: when Chewie 'escapes' his restraints and they start blasting at the guards in the detention block, there are three laser blasts before the officer in charge is shot, but the '04 mix is missing the blast sound for one of them.  Some laser blasts in the Star Destroyer flyby and subsequent shot are also missing; others are out of synch to where they are supposed to be, and some new sounds are added which are distracting and unnecessary.  Listen to the explosion when the stormtroopers break into the Tantive IV--it is extremely muffled compared to every other mix there has ever been.  Listen to Obi-wan's lightsaber activation when he comes face to face with Vader--far too loud, and just 'wrong'.  Multiple sounds of the TIE fighters pursuing the rebel fighters in the trench are synchronised incorrectly and otherwise distorted; likewise with Vader's shots that hit R2.  The Krayt dragon call . . . yuck!  Music reverb when the Millennium Falcon fights off the TIE fighters after escaping the Death Star is gone.

About the only good thing about the '04 is the LFE track, which has some very cool bass effects.  Even that can be too loud at times (R2 falling over when shot by the Jawas), or even occasionally not loud enough (Star Destroyer flyby).

I haven't heard the 1997 mix in its native 5.1 format since it was in theatres, so I can't comment on it as a surround sound experience, but from I what I can hear on the vhs tape, it is infinitely better than the unfortunate dvd remix.  I find it hard to believe that Ben Burtt was actually involved with the dvd in any way.  Even if the '97 has less use of discrete surround channels and has the strange ".44 Magnum laser" sound, it is still better by far due to having a correct overall balance that isn't all that dissimilar from the original mixes.  As such, I would be very glad for a copy of it.  I'd like to combine it with an upmix of the '93 version and synch to the GOUT, but that's just a possibility I've been thinking of.

Post
#382215
Topic
1997 Special Edition Musings
Time

I saw the SE's in the theatre when they came out.  I was only 12, and I thought they were really great at the time.  I had seen the original trilogy on vhs many times before that, and was already very familiar with the films, so the changes were kind of startling, but they didn't bother me.  I had no conception that they were ever meant to replace the originals--they were an interesting alternate, which for a while I actually preferred.

I didn't sour on the SE's until the '04 dvd's came out.  Having a fairly keen ear for sound, and a good memory of the various nuances of the soundtracks, everything about the terrible ANH remix grated on me, and I don't just mean the obvious things like missing music.  There's something "off" about the whole thing, which is hard to describe but definitely there.  Much of the movie sounds as if it's been EQ'd towards the low end, giving it a muffled and distorted sound--you can especially hear this in the opening Star Destroyer flyby and the first stormtrooper shootout.  Most of the Star Destroyer bass is supposed to be a 40 hz effect, but the '04 plays that down and emphasises a 60 hz tone in the mains to an unreasonable degree, while the strong higher frequencies that characterise the '97 mix in particular are practically unheard.  Add that to missing laser blast sounds, background effects mixed far too loud, sometimes to the point of overpowering things that should be more prominently heard, wildly fluctuating quality of dialogue (announcements on the Death Star intercom actually being too clear, while people speaking onscreen are muffled), weird extra hissing and static added to the lightsaber duel, the music in general being too quiet--the result is an abomination, one that is practically unlistenable.

This actually bugs me far more than any of the picture defects, although the underexposure, crushed blacks, oversaturation, hideous blue cast, and wrong lightsaber colours make it look terrible as well.  The '04 mixes of Empire and Jedi don't have these problems--they sound completely fine, except for the terrible redubbing of Boba Fett, and a few other little things.  Some explosions are pumped up in volume, but not in a bad way.

Going back to the '97 SE versions instead of the '04, particularly for the first film, I find I can just watch it without getting too upset.  Sure, I don't like the cgi inserts, Greedo should never shoot, and Luke should never scream as he falls (thank goodness they had the sense to later remove that!), but I'm tired of being upset about them, I guess.  They're there, whatever.  The original versions of the films are infinitely better, and I nearly always choose to watch them.  But I can see the '97 once in a while and enjoy that, too.  It has a very good sound mix that, while different, still sounds like the original for the most part.  No idea why the dvd version is so butchered in comparison.

Aside from that one time in the theatres, I've never heard the '97 mixes in 5.1, only on stereo vhs.  I didn't know anything about the technical aspects of sound then, surround or dynamics or LFE or any of those things, so I don't remember how the presentation would have differed from the stereo.  I would dearly love to have the 5.1 versions, but since I never owned a laserdisc player, there has never been a chance of that.  Darth Editous has mentioned that he's thinking about transferring them from the laserdiscs at some point (the first one at least), which would be very cool.

Post
#381865
Topic
The Way OT.com: General Star Wars Discussion Works
Time

Heir to the Empire, chapter 4, paperback page 55:

Pellaeon licked his lips.  "But then . . ."

"Who is it we've brought aboard the Chimaera?" Thrawn finished the question for him.  "I should have thought that obvious.  Joruus C'baoth--note the telltale mispronunciation of the name Jorus--is a clone."

Pellaeon stared at him.  "A clone?"

"Certainly," Thrawn said.  "Created from a tissue sample, probably sometime just before the real C'baoth's death."

"Early in the war, in other words," Pellaeon said, swallowing hard.  The early clones--or at least those the fleet had faced--had been highly unstable, both mentally and emotionally.  "And you deliberately brought this thing aboard my ship?" he demanded.

The Last Command, chapter 11, paperback page 179:

Mara took a deep breath.  The very existence of the place had been a sacred trust, known only to a handful of people--the Emperor had made that clear time and time again.  But for Thrawn to have a renewable army of clones to throw against the galaxy . . . "I think I know where Thrawn's Spaarti cylinders are."

Even with her rudimentary sensing abilities she could feel the wave of shock that rippled outward from Organa Solo.  "Where?" she asked, her voice tightly controlled.

"The Emperor had a private storehouse," Mara said, the words coming out with difficulty.  His wizened face seemed to hover before her, those yellow eyes gazing at her in silent and bitter accusation.  "It was beneath a mountain on a world he called Wayland--I don't know if it even had an official name.  It was where he kept all his private momentos and souvenirs and odd bits of technology he thought might be useful someday.  One of the artificial caverns held a complete cloning facility he'd apparently appropriated from one of the clonemasters."

Emphasis added by me to highlight the important parts.  Pellaeon was once an officer of the Old Republic fleet, and the clones were an enemy created by unknown "clonemasters" who unleashed them on the galaxy.  Add that to the way the clones are feared for their instability and that everyone is shocked and disturbed that Thrawn would resort to using human duplicates in his war effort, implying that the existing stormtroopers are certainly not clones, and the picture you get is completely inconsistent with the prequels.

But I don't mind that; in fact I'm glad of it, because the prequels are lame, and Zahn's idea was much better.  And like skyjedi2005 said in another thread, Lucas rebooted the franchise without telling anyone.  So the Thrawn trilogy only fits with the original films, which are the only ones that matter anyway.


Post
#381431
Topic
Wanted: Anybody have the ac3 5.1 audio rips of the special edition laserdiscs from 1997?
Time

Yeah the UE of GoldenEye isn't so great.  Most of the others are damn nice but that one isn't.  It's cropped far too much and it looks overly contrasty and oversaturated to me, although I'll admit I can more easily spot audio problems than visual ones.  Add that to the compomised sound mix (and my disc being very scratched up on arrival) and I'm none too pleased with it.  The earlier dvd has the correct framing and colour, and a better bass level, although the definition isn't as good as the UE due to the low video bitrate.  They really need to do a new transfer, but they probably won't.

It would be awesome to have the DTS mix from the laserdisc, particularly if it is the theatrical release soundtrack.  I've never owned a laserdisc player, or I'd be try to do it myself.

Earlier you mentioned a quote from Steve Hoffman about the Star Wars SE mix being inferior to the 70mm version.  I found that here: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-141011.html  Dear lord, I envy the man to be able to have seen it in 70mm just last year!  I can well believe that the 6-track is superior to the SE version.  If they ever do a proper transfer of Star Wars, they had damn well better put the 70mm mix on there--I could live without any other mix if I just had that!  lol

Post
#381418
Topic
Wanted: Anybody have the ac3 5.1 audio rips of the special edition laserdiscs from 1997?
Time

I would dearly love to have copies of the 5.1 mixes from 1997.  I've been playing around with the idea of synching them to the GOUT to be able to take advantage of the discrete channels and stereo surrounds for the original version of the movie.  Obviously they would have to be combined with upmixes of the 1993 tracks for places where the edit of the film has changed (or if there are any particularly egregious changes to the sound).  There are a few places where the 93 versions had bass that the SE's seem to lack, so I'd like to get those in there too.  I'm not sure if it will be possible to get good results, or even if my editing skill is up to the task, but I'd like to try it at least.

I've never understood why studios feel the need to alter their 5.1 mixes for home use.  I heard somewhere that high frequencies are emphasised in theatres to achieve ideal playback in a large space, so I can see why a bit of EQ might be justified for a smaller listening environment, but I have no idea why anything else should ever be changed.  Case in point--I was comparing the GoldenEye special edition dvd with the later ultimate edition, and I noticed that in the later version, the LFE track is consistently several decibels lower.  This kind of thing annoys me a lot.  If they're worried about downmixing to stereo, why don't they just do a 2-channel version and make that the primary audio track?  That way folks watching on less-than-ideal setups can have a format optimised for them, and without having dynamic range compression automatically turned on.  Compromising 5.1 mixes for the sake of being put through tv speakers makes no sense.

Post
#381052
Topic
What can Be done to save the real original star wars trilogy from 1977-1983?
Time

I agree, with a good transfer (something the movies have never really had) and calibrated display the mattes would not be an issue at all.  One of the things I like about G-force's AviSynth script is that it gives the GOUT a contrast boost--with that applied to the image I can scarcely see any mattes, and it doesn't look so washed out.  With a real transfer I don't think I would find any fault with the image.  I don't mind if someone wants to remove the mattes, but it would be a non-issue if the restoration and transferring had just been done properly to start with.  There was never any need to remove them, but as changes go it is certainly far less egregious than CGI inserts and glaring sound effects alterations.

Post
#380821
Topic
What can Be done to save the real original star wars trilogy from 1977-1983?
Time

I'm okay with garbage mattes being removed.  They are distracting and irritating and aren't supposed to be visible.  I wouldn't call it strictly the original version of the movie to do that, though.  That is more like what the special edition should have been.  Matte lines and boxes taken out, maybe a couple other very minor fixes like compositing with proper spatial perspective so snowspeeders don't appear in front of the legs of the Imperial walker they're supposed to be flying behind, etc.  Aside from being overly blue, the Battle of Hoth in the SE looks quite good, because that's all they did to it, no cgi inserts.  And having a well made 5.1 mix to increase the soundstage and bass but still retain the essential flavour of the originals and not insert glaring new sounds or change the balance.

If that were all they had done, the SE would have been awesome.

But the original, completely untouched with all its sound mixes, should always be available also.

With a really good transfer, most of its flaws would scarcely be noticeable anyway.

Post
#380818
Topic
Why does the EU hate villains?
Time

Thrawn is not a good guy.  He started out as one, but despite his principles he got caught up into believing in the overuse of military force and more and more became corrupted by it.  Whatever good intentions he may have, he has done some pretty horrible things, quite enough to make him a villain to me.

Also, Zahn revised his own view of Thrawn somewhat as he went along.  The new direction he chose to take him is fascinating, but it's not quite 100% consistent with how he's presented in his first trilogy.  There especially we see him for the villainous figure he is.

I do agree, though, that those other EU 'villains' you mention are presented in a ridiculous fashion.  The obsession some of these so-called 'authors' have with making the dark side be really not so bad is annoying as hell.

Post
#377605
Topic
Additional material in ANH 1993 mix
Time

That's what one of the guys at THX (I forget his name) told Widescreen Review when the Definitive Collection laserdiscs first came out.  Whether it's completely true I'm not sure.  (They're not on the French and Spanish tracks on the GOUT, which most resemble the mono mix.)  They could be from some obscure foreign version, or maybe Ben Burtt invented some of them in 1993, who knows.

Post
#377600
Topic
Questions about audio mixes
Time

If the 2006 GOUT did not have the shattering glass of the cameras and alarms, I would have found it much more listenable.  But this unnecessary '93 addition most definitely is there.  There are various sounds added to R2 and Chewie's game on the mono mix and the SE, but not in the '93 version.  I could go back and compare them again to make sure, but I'm quite positive they are exactly the same.

Those shattering sounds are the only '93 addition that I find truly egregious, which is what lead me to substitute the '77 stereo mix for that scene.  I also reverted to the original again just before Luke and Han jump into the garbage pit because the added blaster sounds there didn't sound anything like the rest of them.  There are a few other additions I would probably prefer to not be there also, but they don't bug me on anywhere near that scale.  Certainly not enough to sacrifice the power of the '93 to get rid of them.

I think if I had a time machine one of the things I would do is go to see Star Wars in 70mm when it first came out.  By all accounts it was an awesome experience sonically.  The thrill of seeing/hearing it the first time can never be entirely recaptured, of course, but it would still rock.

The missing snowspeeder sound in the '93 Empire is somewhat mysterious, but I think it can be explained by its being mixed from an early 4-track master, and not a release print master.  If the snowspeeder effect was a late addition mixed in afterwards, when it was being readied for 35mm release, then its absence from an earlier generation copy would make sense.

Sometimes I wonder about the 70mm mix of Empire.  It is claimed by many that the changes to the SE version, both of dialogue and of music editing, are derived from the 70mm, but without any recordings of it available to compare, such statements must be considered unconfirmed.  Supposedly Empire came out in 70mm first, but if the 35mm version, which is 'missing' several things claimed to be in the 70, came out later, then why would a more 'complete' version of the soundtrack be released earlier?  With Star Wars, the less 'complete' stereo version was the first one out.  I'm a bit sceptical that those changes are actually in the 70mm version, although I could be wrong.  The SE music editing is definitely superior, because it doesn't hack up the music in some places the way the 35mm does, but the dialogue additions seem unnecessary.  I dunno.

Post
#377436
Topic
Questions about audio mixes
Time

All three GOUT dvd soundtracks are exactly the same as the '93 laserdisc mixes.  There are no differences in content, only a reduced playback volume of 4 decibels on the GOUT due to the AC3 dialogue normalisation, and dynamic compression on Empire.

Compared to the original stereo version of Empire, the '93 remix is missing the sound of a snowspeeder spinning out of control just before the Imperial walker destroys the power generator.  Jedi's '93 mix has no changes in sound effects compared to the original.

Post
#377365
Topic
Questions about audio mixes
Time

I think you named them all.  There's the original three--35mm stereo, 70mm 6-track, 35mm mono; and for later home release there's the '85 stereo, similar to the original, and the '93, similar to the 70mm.  Then the '97 5.1, which has its own unique flavour but contains similarities to all three originals in various places.  Then there's the one we don't talk about, the '04 abomination, which sounds absolutely nothing like what Star Wars is supposed to sound like in any way.

The '06 GOUT dvd contains the '93 soundtrack.

Empire and Jedi had 35mm stereo and 70mm six-track versions.  I don't think they were ever remixed in '85, or if they were, there are no substantial differences to be heard.  They were both remixed in '93, and of course '97 and '04.  Unlike the first movie, their '04 dvd versions still sound mostly good.  The '93 version of Empire resembles the 35mm in content, but has greater dynamics (although one sound effect is missing).  Empire's GOUT audio is compromised in dynamic range compared to the laserdisc--I suspect it may have come from a vhs master (either that or it happened during the AC3 encoding).  The special edition changes are supposedly true to its 70mm version, but since there are no recordings of it, it can't be stated as fact.  I don't think Jedi ever had any differences in content originally.  

 

It's hard to pick out one version as being the best, but I've become most accustomed to the '93 laserdisc track.  My pet project was to combine it with the special edition LFE to give it even more power and resemblance to the 70mm mix (or at least how I imagine that probably would have sounded).  While I was at it I also patched in the cell bay shootout from the '77 stereo, to eliminate the breaking glass sounds that were added in, and put the Falcon's 'hyperdrive deceleration' sound from the mono mix as a matrixed rear channel effect.  It sounds extremely awesome.

I've given some thought to trying to eliminate all of the other '93 additions to try to recreate the 70mm version as closely as possible, but I'm not sure if that will work, or is entirely worth it.  Hmm . . .

(Okay, enough plugging my own work.  lol)

Post
#377348
Topic
Stuff about the original releases of ANH, with what a book says (early variations in ANH)
Time

The 1985 stereo mix is nearly identical to the original '77 in overall sound, with the obvious addition of the tractor beam line.  The '85 version has a wider stereo image/greater channel separation.

The 1993 version is a stereo downmix of the 70mm soundtrack with additional effects mixed in.  With its dedicated LFE tracks, the original most likely had greater bass content, but the '93 has as much as 16-bit 2-channel dynamics will allow for.  The Star Destroyer flyby in the beginning has fairly strong content from 35-45 hz (the better your sound system, the more you'll get out of this), and other places have good response in the 50-60 hz range.  As far as the added sound effects, Belbecus made a detailed comparison between the 93 and an in-theater tape recording of the 70mm, located in this thread.  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/70mm-mix-to-93-mix-comparison/topic/6501/  While no mono dialogue was used, he notes that about half of the effects additions were also used in the mono mix(!).