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hairy_hen

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27-Mar-2006
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11-May-2023
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Post
#208388
Topic
How "original" do you think it is going to be...? (the 2006 GOUT DVD release)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208388/action/topic#208388
Time
What does the rancor scene look like in the '97 SE version? I haven't put that tape in for a while and don't remember well.

The lines around the rancor never bothered me (indeed, I barely took notice of them) until I saw just how good that scene could look from the 2004. Now I can't help but notice it, so I'd prefer it not be there. Ultimately it doesn't really matter to me much, because it's never been very bad to begin with, but being able to see Luke as actually being in the room with a monster is nice . . .

Hence my question about the '97 version. As it seems likely this new release will use the cleaned up and recomposited print that was the starting point for the special edition, I'm wondering if it was any better in that than originally. Matte lines aren't something I see easily to begin with so I'm not sure I could judge that on my own without a very close look. (Garbage boxes are a different matter; once seen they can never be unseen.)
Post
#208371
Topic
Info: The "OFFICIAL" audio mixes of the Original Trilogy - Help needed.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208371/action/topic#208371
Time
The editdroid dvd (which I just obtained) uses the '85 stereo dolby track in 2.0 ac3, I believe . . .

That's my personal favourite mix since I was used to it for years on VHS, and is part of why I wanted to get the editdroid.

Heh. I was actually thinking of starting a thread like this myself, but I was beaten to it. lol

There are a lot of other subtle differences between the mixes that I'm not sure I've seen anyone point out yet, particularly in the beginning of the movie:

As the Star Destroyer flies about halfway overhead there is a bright flash of light that on the old stereo is not accompanied by any sort of explosive sound effect. On the '93 THX one was added; the '97 special edition supercedes it with a longer, higher-pitched and more "stereo-ized" explosion sound. I don't know if the mono had any sound there or not, as I've never had an opportunity to hear the mono. I would guess it does, since it has other sounds that the early stereo does not. It makes sense to have a sound to accompany the flash, but I kind of like it without.

The Star Destroyer's flight seems to have more bass rumble on the '93 than on the '85, though it is not intrusive. (The 2004 dvd adds an absurd amount of bass here, as well as throughout the entire film, making many sounds come out overworked and wrong.)

The music is heard far more prominently in the '97 special edition mix than in any others. I like it this way.

The Imperial turbolaser blasts sound less 'zingy' in the special edition. Picturewise the blasts also appear narrower in the opening shot, interestingly. (In the '04 they are white! instead of green.)

The '93 adds a loud turbolaser effect when the Tantive is hit. This does not appear on any other mix I am aware of. Not sure of the mono, again.

More explosive sounds are heard aboard the Tantive after it is hit in the special edition, and at different volume levels. More sound effects of the ship being secured in the hangar (as the Rebel troops look around at the ceiling) are heard.

The '85 mix does not feature the low rumbling sound right before the Imperials start to blast their way through the wall. It is present on the '93 and in the special edition; anyone know if it's on the mono? This effect lets you know something is about to happen; its absence may actually make for greater tension, since you don't know what's going to happen next. The music is heard better without it for that few seconds as well (the way it's composed leads me to believe a few seconds of near-silence was what Williams was writing for in the sound mix).

The explosion of the wall is very forceful on the '85 mix and even more so in the special edition. The '93 THX adds more bass but the overall force and power of the sound effect is reduced, strangely. (The '04, again, adds too much bass, and similarly it is actually a less powerful effect.)

The rhythm of the laser battle in the corridor is completely botched in the '04. I can't even make out what they did to it, it's so bad.


Well, that's the scene I've analyzed most exhaustively on the various mixes. Perhaps I will return to talk about other scenes later on. Heh.
Post
#208344
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208344/action/topic#208344
Time
It is a significant goof, because in particular the music underscoring Fett's line "put captain Solo in the cargo hold" is extremely choppy. Allowed to run as composed it is one of my favourite musical segments in the entire collected SW score, but the 35 mm mix botches it. I don't know why, because it doesn't even compress it for time for that part, just alters it in a bad way.
Post
#208298
Topic
How "original" do you think it is going to be...? (the 2006 GOUT DVD release)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208298/action/topic#208298
Time
To be perfectly frank I can't understand why anyone would want to have garbage mattes still there in the picture. I am not old enough to have seen the films in the theatre initially, but I am certain that no one ever saw them at that time; my dad says he sure as hell never did. They were never supposed to be seen, and are simply a glitch that becomes visible when the picture is transferred to a home format. I find them distracting and irritating now that I've noticed them, and would much prefer they not be there. I have the 2004 dvd's to thank for having seen them in the first place, because I never noticed them at all until then. Unfortunately, I can see them on my old versions now too.

Honestly, would you rather be able to believe the effects you're seeing onscreen are something real that is actually happening, or be reminded that it is a model in front of a bluescreen by a box around it? To me there's no question. I don't want the new versions to have any revisionist changes whatsoever, I'm adamant about that, but simply recompositing is like cleaning up the picture to get what was there originally to look as good as it can. I have no problem with that; in fact I prefer it, as long as it is done right.
Post
#208296
Topic
The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208296/action/topic#208296
Time
The deleted cues have never been on any mix, that is correct as far as I've ever heard. But the difference between the 70mm and the 35mm in music is the hackjob that was applied in certain places on the 35, which the 70 (at least in its SE incarnation, anyway) left as had been composed. These include two transitions from Yoda on Dagobah to the Imperial fleet, the first after the cave sequence and the second after the X-wing is raised from the swamp, and also on Bespin for the segment from Boba Fett saying "put captain Solo in the cargo hold" through Leia and co. running to catch Slave 1 up until it cuts back to the Luke and Vader duel.

The music written for the Yoda-to-Imperial-fleet transitions was in both instances a loud statement of the Imperial March (not the concert version), which was replaced on the 35 with a spliced bit from the very beginning of the concert version, not as loud. The Bespin scene is the more objectionable edit as it drastically shortens and hacks together the music so that it cuts off as soon as Chewie begins firing on Slave 1, while the 70 allows it to run as composed, cutting off when the scene changes back to the lightsaber duel. It is better this way because we get to see a tortured Leia watching Fett's ship take off and hear the Han/Leia love theme in a similarly tortured rendition, whereas on the 35 the music has ended and we are left hanging with nothing but sound effects.

I grew up hearing the 35 on video and for the most part prefer it, but for the way the music plays out I would much rather have the 70. A combination of the two for just that would be the best ESB soundtrack in my opinion. OCP's classic edition tried to achieve this, but didn't get the music to run completely smoothly, which was unfortunately rather distracting.

I really like all the music for the original trilogy, so I kind of wish some alternate mix could put back in all the deleted cues too. But I wouldn't try to suppress the original either, because there is something to be said for leaving them out, from a certain point of view.
Post
#208098
Topic
John William's Opinion on the Special Editions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208098/action/topic#208098
Time
I'd read that Williams interview a few months ago. Yeah, being from '97 his point of saying the originals were still available was valid at the time. As far as I've ever heard Lucas wasn't talking about suppressing them at that point . . .

I agree with Williams on what he says there; artists have the right to change their ideas, definitely, but it just isn't cool to suppress an older take in such a heavy-handed manner when it's been around for a long time and is a classic in the eyes of millions. Both have to be available. And now, thankfully, we're getting that.
Post
#207713
Topic
ORIGINAL STAR WARS TRILOGY OUT 09/2006 BY LUCASFILM
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207713/action/topic#207713
Time
Not to get off topic, but since I've only got into Indiana Jones in the past year, what is the level of quality of that DVD set as compared to its original form? Any complaints about colour or sound or anything? (Relatively few would complain about getting rid of a snake reflection, which is the equivalent of fixing matte lines, which I am all for.) I have the Indy set but don't have anything to compare it to. Just curious.

I think putting SW out on a two-disc set is the way to go, considering Lucas' relative intractability concerning the old version; it's somewhat amazing he's even doing it at all, really. But I really hope it will not be subjugated with a "disc 2" label on the disc itself, or worse yet "bonus material", because that is disrespectful. The tone of the press release seems to indicate that would be the case, unfortunately. Oh well.

I'm sure various 'ultimate versions' could be made offering choices of audio and fixing what screwups they might make, if any. For my part I'd like the '85 stereo mix primarily, because that's what I grew up with on VHS (and is why I got the Editdroid), but having the mono would be interesting for the sake of comparison. I've heard only small bits of it via the classic edition. Having all the sound mixes plus music-only would be excellent. There will yet be many possibilities for editors come this fall, methinks . . .
Post
#207705
Topic
Info: A CALL TO ARMS FOR THE X0 PROJECT! (was: A SPARK OF HOPE...)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207705/action/topic#207705
Time
lol. We'll be more forgiving of a delay than the Emperor would be, at least. No horrific deaths involved.

Before the official announcement I had often thought that the X0 would be the best possible version of the movies it would be possible to attain. I started out with a TR47 set, then ocp's work, now I'm getting the Editdroids--comparing them all is interesting. Once the official release comes, assuming it's any good, I'll probably give up my comparison game and just watch that, but I want to see how the X0 measures up to it. There's always going to be something preferable about one version over another.

But I have to wonder, though: with all this work going into making these projects, doesn't it make it difficult to just sit back and watch them as movies, and not think about technical considerations or pondering changes? If I just relax I can almost watch the official '04 release and not get upset with it (key word being *almost*, of course). Hell I had a great time watching with my buddies in college when it first came out. Someone on theforce.net was saying that you could use the THX optimiser on the discs to calibrate your tv settings properly, and having done that I found that some of the colour issues on the '04s became less bad (Vader's lightsaber went from nasty magenta to its proper red in most shots, and the Tantive's walls were more white and less blue, among other things). Still, you shouldn't really have to mess with your tv to make something watchable, and it doesn't change the sound mix on ANH being complete crap. The X0 will therefore always be a far better viewing experience since it is going for a proper colour scheme throughout.

So keep up the great work, you guys! Do you know what sound mix/mixes you will be using, perchance?
Post
#207200
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207200/action/topic#207200
Time
I fail to understand how the continuation of the X0 project in light of the upcoming September release could in any way be harmful or misguided.

There have been so many versions of Star Wars over the years that it is quite impossible to say which is the 'ultimate definitive original' version. Three sound mixes in '77. "A New Hope" in '81. New sound mixes in '85 and '93. The special edition in '97. The official DVD's in '04. Numerous fan restorations/preservations combining different elements of sound and picture in ways their creators see fit . . .

What's the problem with wanting to get the best possible copy of the laserdisc releases when clearly the upcoming '06 DVD will not be exactly the same to them in every aspect? They are a part of Star Wars history.

Good as the Classic Editions are--and kudos to Garrett for making them--they are not exact reproductions of the original film but hybrids, assembled to his taste in what the best elements to use would be. That is quite a different beast than the X0, and given their differing natures, there is no reason whatsoever the two concepts cannot co-exist side by side, or separately for those who prefer only one or the other. The existence of one does not threaten the validity of the other. For my part I have the Classics and also eagerly look forward to the completion of the X0, and of course the upcoming release in September. None of them will be exactly the same, and since Star Wars has undergone so many variations, comparing them to each other has become a favourite pasttime of mine. I grew up with the films in VHS from the early '90s with the '85 stereo mix, which is the base to compare all others. What's wrong with having different approaches, I ask?

This is my first post, by the way. I've been lurking a few months but didn't really have much to say at first, since most people here know more than me about this stuff. (And I thought I was obsessed! lol)

Anyway, it's great news they're finally putting them out officially, even if it is only for a short time. A lot of anger and resentment (though not all) towards Lucas has been lifted away and I can be at peace.

So, OCP--thanks for the great work on the Classics! X0 guys--keep up the awesome job! I'm so glad there are people invested in these movies enough to want them preserved.

Dan, aka hairy_hen