frank678

I'd always understood it as the official releases were shifted to pink/magenta because of natural colour fade in the print/negative, and that this became more apparent when the low fade technicolor print pictures (and video clips) from the Senator screening came to light to be able to compare. The PAL 1982 VHS is really pink compared to the NTSC releases from around the same time. I think this was a case of the limitations of the format and the average consumer not looking out for that stuff/expecting as much maybe.

Here's another example of what I think is the light source changing things, both of these are 70mm collector film cells from ebay listings and I'm guessing the second was photographed with a much more yellow light source behind it.

So with this release I was trying to match up closer to the colour result in the second

E.C. Edition

Yep I think that the differences between vhs, technidisc, Gout and SE, etc. means theres already a lot of different looks in play, hopefully with going back and forth with different versions, it will end up not muddying the water but tuning things to get to where the best range lies.

Asaki said:

Call me when this is on VCD.

I'm going to start a new golden age by releasing my version via heavily duped VHS copies. Blanks welcome.

timdiggerm said:

Let's not forget that the Senator photos are taken casually with a DSLR from a weird angle with no real prep to ensure accuracy.

Thats true. I'm going by the idea that the tech print/negative faded less than those used for the GOUT and SE and taking on faith that the camera didnt introduce too much of a distortion. Here's a very saturated 70mm frame that shows Han's shirt with a yellow bias, it probably wouldnt come out this dark projected, but it sort of matches up to the senator balances

Ideally I would be able to tint it more exactly but its difficult to overcome all the colour range missing as well as nailing the balances down.

The reason behind using a theatrically inaccurate yellow tint in this case and doing extreme contrasts is still in the cause of getting to aspects of the original, not to degrade them on purpose. Example:

Gout

SE

Senator (fullest representation of the original colours)

E.C. Edition (de-redded but still meant to give an aspect impression of the original)

Feallan said:

Yeah, let's rape poor SW one more time. O.O

well i was going to say revive, but it is very yellow i'll give you that..

timdiggerm said:

Yeah some of these look better than GOUT

I can't enjoy GOUT or the Special Edition straight now after seeing the retools that people are bringing out here.

Tack said:

I had a similar idea once. My idea was to take a few low-res transfers and the GOUT and recreate the shoddy transfer of Lucas's technicolor print from Empire of Dreams.

Yep I think its not possible to make GOUT as rich as a full-bodied print but only sort of hint at it, so there is room to make different faded and tinted looks. I was looking at 70mm frames on ebay and lots of them seem to have different tints based on the light source. Here is the same frame from the same listing just lit differently and see how it changes the colours:

This is a good frame to show the effect the yellowy-green tint has in de-redding GOUT

GOUT

E.C. Edition

This shot is a nasty one - it never looks right to me even in the Senator frame:

E.C. Edition:

My result here suffers from being washed out/pasty due to the non-discrimination of a one stop setting. Not good, but looks better in the context of the matching shots around it in the version, a bit like a faded print effect.

E.C. Edition

For the dinner scene the Senator has a kind of a lilac tint (similar to your result NeverarGreat), with these settings everything comes out with a much more yellow/green tint because of how much I'm shifting away from pink/red. Its not theatrically accurate then, but still lies within the range of believable flesh tones (at least on this frame - the next one coming up is not so good)

Senator

E.C. Edition

Space Hunter M said:

Whoa, it's like one of the old pan and scan masters with the frame opened up!

Yep I grew up with the blown out Pan and Scan VHS look I think this is why Star Wars seems more familiar too me when its overly bright

GOUT: Extremely Cruddy Edition features the following:

*Blown out picture

*Loss of detail

*Low resolution

*Uncrisp image

*Compressed, small file size

*Popping/diluted colours

*All-new dubious colour pallette

*Crushed blacks

*Destroyed starfields

-On the plus side it is available now to watch, (pm me for link if you need this in your life today) or alternatively you can request any screenshots you require here.

Screens:

Original GOUT

GOUT: E.C. Edition

Here is a sample of some of the advanced feedback from OT members:

"No. No. No."

"In the name of all that is good and right, please stop - you are making things much worse"

"I am really looking forward to Team Blu's V2 and 97SE releases"

Great to hear this radical project is still very much alive. Can't wait to watch a whole new organic print of the original version.

Its pleasing to my eye to see the offensive magenta/blue soup the original was swimming in converted to a more naturalistic pallette, I'd much rather see simple brown and blue tones than shocking pink/purple ones jumping out.

Yes getting rid of that blue fog puts so much more life back in the picture, and you've done it without blowing things out which is what I always ended up doing. Nice subtle skintones too!

I tweaked a sample clip that was posted earlier in the thread to get rid of the green tint AntcuFaalb

*deleted*

Edit: hmm, i just looked at this again in the morning and realized it was a bit too severe!

Can you post an example with some fleshtones with this new method I'm intrigued!

I found a couple of still quite nice 70mm film frames, both from the same scene, so maybe this was the best reel of the batch.

Unlike SW and ESB, the Return of the Jedi 70mm collecter film frames nearly all seem to be pink shifted, like this reel. It makes me wonder what the difference is down to: was it to do with different type, age or condition of film stocks, for the respective films. Does anyone here own a Jedi 70mm collector film frame featuring the first reel that is not pink shifted?

@NeverarGreat, really like your results, still think you should release this as its own version, even if you just post up a compressed version like i did with my final colour mix, just because it communicates the change over the whole film so much better than stills can