I find all these complaints about the humour in TLJ to be pretty weird. TFA was full of stupid comedy and everyone was praising Abrams for it.
TFA didn’t feel like a love letter to the OT at all to me, rather like the most expensive fan film ever made.
TLJ is weighed down by the ST’s poor set up (the FO being inexplicably all-conquering and powerful), but still succeeded despite all the things it had going against it.
That’s another problem I have with TFA. Abrams approached the movie like a fan, whereas Johnson approached it like a filmmaker first and foremost.
Since the movie’s release all online discussions feel like an exercise in who can hate the movie more, which why I’m not particularly fond of expressing my love for it as it makes me feel like some sort of extraterrestrial being with a mindset drastically different from others.
See, I have the same issues with TFA now as you do but that’s because TLJ failed to provide sufficient or compelling (or any at all) explanations for all the unexplained things occurring in TFA. Additionally due to the disappointment that TLJ was to me and how drastically it departed from what was setup in TFA, TFA as a direct result is now a mediocre to poor movie for me where prior to TLJ it was good to excellent.
Actually, the fact that TLJ disregards TFA worked in the film’s favour in my view.
I’ve also posted previously that with TLJ, Johnson has earned my full trust and now I’m eagerly anticipating Johnson’s SW trilogy, even more than Episode IX, the best part being that it will be a brand new story that is wholly disconnected from the main saga.
Lucasfilm shouldn’t make Episode X though. The saga will be beyond complete. If they really want more episodes that badly, they should make a new saga, starting at Episode I.
I hope that’s what Rian’s trilogy is. A story set in the same universe wholly disconnected to Skywalker’s or Jedi.
They’ve been saying from the very beginning that Rian Johnson’s trilogy is wholly disconnected from the main saga.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen TLJ and TFA on opposite sides of a ranking before. I assume it comes down to director, but apart from that are there any reasons for the divide?
Because TFA was such a letdown.
Never before has a SW movie, or any movie for that matter, disappointed me as much as TFA has. It was such a carbon copy of the first one, and to make matters worse everybody else heaped all kinds of praise on it.
After that fiasco I fully expected TLJ to a rehash of TESB and had no expectations whatsoever in regards to the movie, however once a friend saw it on its opening day and texted me that it wasn’t like TESB I was suddenly pumped, and went in to the cinema and enjoyed every second of it and once the credits started rolling I left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.
Of course the excitement has died down a bit and there are some things I would change like Rose’s line about not fighting what we hate, saving what we love, which I find way too corny and remove Poe’s jests at the beginning of the movie, but while I’m not a studio executive I would have started the ST with TLJ or at least make Episode VII very similar to it. I know it’s petty, but I also felt satisfaction at seeing all those who loved TFA being let down by TLJ, and the fact that all those stupid fan theories were totally dismissed.
Basically TLJ was the SW movie I didn’t know I wanted and arrived when I least expected, and for that I feel grateful towards Brian Johnson.
You feel grateful towards the former lead vocalist of AC/DC for a starwars movie? 😉
In all seriousness; while I like TFA more than TLJ, it’s interesting to see someone feel the opposite way, and have valid reasons for it. Your perspective is a breath of fresh air!
Goddamned autocorrect.
TFA didn’t feel like a love letter to the OT at all to me, rather like the most expensive fan film ever made.
TLJ is weighed down by the ST’s poor set up (the FO being inexplicably all-conquering and powerful), but still succeeded despite all the things it had going against it.
That’s another problem I have with TFA. Abrams approached the movie like a fan, whereas Johnson approached it like a filmmaker first and foremost.
Since the movie’s release all online discussions feel like an exercise in who can hate the movie more, which why I’m not particularly fond of expressing my love for it as it makes me feel like some sort of extraterrestrial being with a mindset drastically different from others.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen TLJ and TFA on opposite sides of a ranking before. I assume it comes down to director, but apart from that are there any reasons for the divide?
Because TFA was such a letdown.
Never before has a SW movie, or any movie for that matter, disappointed me as much as TFA has. It was such a carbon copy of the first one, and to make matters worse everybody else heaped all kinds of praise on it.
After that fiasco I fully expected TLJ to a rehash of TESB and had no expectations whatsoever in regards to the movie, however once a friend saw it on its opening day and texted me that it wasn’t like TESB I was suddenly pumped, and went in to the cinema and enjoyed every second of it and once the credits started rolling I left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.
Of course the excitement has died down a bit and there are some things I would change like Rose’s line about not fighting what we hate, saving what we love, which I find way too corny and remove Poe’s jests at the beginning of the movie, but while I’m not a studio executive I would have started the ST with TLJ or at least make Episode VII very similar to it. I know it’s petty, but I also felt satisfaction at seeing all those who loved TFA being let down by TLJ, and the fact that all those stupid fan theories were totally dismissed.
Basically TLJ was the SW movie I didn’t know I wanted and arrived when I least expected, and for that I feel grateful towards Brian Johnson.
Um, there’s a side quest in the first KOTOR game where a thug has put a bounty on a waitress for rejecting his unwanted advances, so no, it’s not a taboo subject within the Star Wars narrative.
EDIT: fmalover, I totally see your POV, and it does worry me that JJ won’t conclude certain character arcs properly, but hopefully he’ll surprise us, or they already have the broad strokes mapped out, or Chris Terrio will help keep it interesting.
Well, the one arc I fully expect Abrams to conclude is the Kylo Ren/Hux rivalry, which Ran Johnson carried over to TLJ, and the final shot of Hux makes it clear he resents Kylo as Supreme Leader, a title he considers to be rightfully his.
OK guys, just finished watching Solo, so here’s my updated ranking which includes a mini-review for Solo:
The Last Jedi
The Empire strikes Back
Star Wars
Return of the Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
Rogue One
Solo - This movie is just plain average and totally unnecessary, but I won’t deny it has its moments. Some of the jokes did make me chuckle, and there are some sequences and visuals that are pretty neat. Lando’s droid companion L3 is perhaps the most WTF character in SW history, and Maul’s cameo was nice but it does raise a lot of questions.
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
The Force Awakens - seriously, fuck this movie.
As interesting as these speculative are, my interest in Episode IX was effectively ended when they announced Abrams was being brought back to the director’s chair.
The only movies where he was involved that I actually like are Armageddon (he was one of the scriptwriters IIRC) and Cloverfield (producer). I find any movie directed by him to be by-the-numbers yet everyone else loves them and hail him as a modern day genius. Maybe I’m just immune to the JJ Kool-Aid.
I fully expect Episode IX to be every bit as insipid as any other movie directed by him.
I remember reading that Disney was unhappy with the way EA has handled the SW licence and was thinking of prematurely terminating their deal, but nothing new since.
I really hoped there was truth to that story.
Of course I have, but while the guys who dubbed Anakin and Obi-Wan sound a lot like Hayden Christensen and Ewan McGregor, Yoda sounds oddly feminine and the guy who dubbed Palpatine doesn’t sound like Ian McDiarmid at all.
Here’s a random thought: I would love to have the entire cast of ROTS + a very good Christopher Lee impersonator redub the movie with Backstroke of the West dialog.
Yeah, but they sound more or less similar, the ST on the other hand are drastically different.
I’ve noticed that when playing the end titles during the credits of both TFA and TLJ John Williams breaks with the tradition of previous SW movies and ends with a musical cue that is very different from the traditional final bars.
Is there a reason for this?
(Apologies in advance if I’ve used incorrect music terminology).
My personal (and probably controversial) ranking list:
- Star Wars: Just an overall fun adventure that works great on its own.
- The Empire Strikes Back: Great most of the time, but has some clunky dialogue and plot holes.
- Revenge of the Sith: Even more clunky dialogue, but when it’s good, it’s great.
- Return of the Jedi: Has some great moments, but mostly just tries to be kid-friendly.
- Rogue One: Not the plot I expected, but it takes the franchise in a great new direction.
- The Force Awakens: Tries to be a fun movie like Star Wars, but filled with cliches and plot holes.
- The Last Jedi: Ruins everything good about TFA with massive plot holes and “subverting expectations.”
- Solo: Tries to explain too many things at once, and ends up failing miserably.
- Attack of the Clones: One of the most boring Star Wars movies, and the plot is terrible.
- The Phantom Menace: Somehow manages to be both kid-friendly and dull.
- The Holiday Special: Why. Just why.
What do you mean by plot holes in TESB?
Saw Logan Lucky this weekend, fun southern-fried movie. Adam Driver’s character in that movie is an Iraq War veteran missing one hand, which is no doubt a reference to Kylo Ren’s relatives Anakin and Luke.
Back when the show aired on TV I really enjoyed Dragon Ball GT but over the years I’ve noticed a lot of people dislike it and would rather pretend it never happened, citing Toriyama’s lack of involvement and the fact that it wasn’t based on any manga.
My question is why are people so dismissive towards DBGT? To this day I find nothing wrong with it and feel it wrapped up the saga quite nicely (until Dragon Ball Super came along), plus the Super Saiyan 4 transformation looks badass.
I’ve noticed that in both TFA and TLJ the end themes don’t have the final bars from the previous movies and use a different musical cue (Rogue One does retain it). Is there a reason for that?
The only movies where Abrams was involved that I truly enjoyed are Armageddon (he was a scriptwriter IIRC) and Cloverfield (producer), apart from that there isn’t a single movie directed by him that I like (Mission: Impossible 3 is my least favourite of the MI movies).
I honestly don’t understand why J.J. Abrams is so highly regarded, and when Anakin Starkiller said he’s great at imitating others’ style, well yeah, he sure does imitate, but his imitations do nothing for me.
Maybe I’m immune to the J.J. Kool-aid, and while everyone else is celebrating his helming Episode IX, the very announcement of his return killed all my interest in the movie, and I will only watch it to see how it ends, which in all likelihood will be a total fuck-up but everyone will rejoice and praise Abrams for “fixing” the ST. sigh
The New Republic did have a Fleet, but a large chunk of their fleet were stationed at Hosnian Prime. I’m sure some New Republic forces exist throughout the galaxy but they’re all spread thin. So by destroying Hosnian Prime, it would be like if the attack at Pearl Harbor had destroyed the carriers and oil facilities like the Japanese had hoped for. It would have been a major setback for the United States.
At this time, I think the New Republic relied on the defense forces of their member worlds to be called to action in a situation where a large defense force was necessary. I believe the NR’s primary defense fleet was large enough to handle any large scale conflicts itself, but I imagine in this time they only dealt with intervening skirmishes involving their members, or fighting off pirates/criminals.
The New Republic demilitarizing to me wasn’t about having no military, but downsizing their military to pre-Clone War levels. Basically to the scale that the Republic Navy was at probably for most of its history. Many people didn’t want a large national military so the central government wouldn’t have too much power over its member worlds, leading to an abuse of power that led to the Empire in the first place.
I also like to think that between ROTJ and TFA, the New Republic did deal with some Imperial holdouts, but their threat to the Republic was small enough for their Fleet, and units like Rogue/Wraith Squadron from the EU, to take care of. While not really necessary, this would also help explain why they never consider an Imperial resurgence a major threat.
But we do know that First Order sympathizers within the Senate did help downplay the threat of the First Order enough to make the majority of the Republic feel like a large-scale intervention wouldn’t be necessary. And it did seem the First Order kept hidden enough to help with that narrative.
But once the First Order destroyed the Defense Fleet and the Senate in one move, it was basically cutting off the head of the Republic. The member worlds no longer had any leadership or unity. Maybe under some common leadership they could’ve held back the First Order, but without it they’re all probably bunkering down in an attempt to defend their own worlds. It’s a very precise divide and conquer-like strategy, a strategy which smaller armies can use to defeat forces larger than itself.
So my guess for the First Order’s strategy (which they’ve had 30 years to perfect) could be to occupy planets at important hyperspace junctures, thereby having control of trade and the galactic economy within a month or two.
Which in my mind is why Leia’s survival in TLJ was so important. She might be the last figure that can truly unite what is left of any resistance in the galaxy together, which we will hopefully see in Episode IX.
I like your explanation RogueLeader, but I’m left with one final question. Where the hell does the FO get all its money from? Because doing business with them is a surefire way to get Canto Bight levels of wealth. Imperial credits shouldn’t be an accepted form of currency in the NR. Do the Unknown Regions have an abundance of precious minerals that are highly coveted throughout the Galaxy?
Yeah but it’s made clear the FO took over the Galaxy in just one week or so. Couldn’t a galaxy spanning government come up with a decent military budget for defence and protection? Did all systems meekly surrender without a fight? Or the NR is completely devoid of any armed forces? IDK, just can’t wrap my head around that.
Setting aside my love for TLJ, I must say the movie contains what is IMO the most problematic line of dialogue in the ST, which is: “Selling weapons to the First Order”. Is Rose really telling us that the New Republic is run by a bunch of paupers who can’t afford shit? Even then I called bullshit.
I’m not saying Anakin should have breezed through the prequels using the Force without breaking a sweat, Force Unleashed style, but when under great stress, he would do mind-blowing stuff with the Force, however this would have its drawbacks. It’s been established that exerting your Force powers too much could be potentially lethal, and we see Luke being physically drained from the effort of doing more elaborate things when training with Yoda in TESB, so why not have Anakin passing out after an amazing display? Just throwing ideas around.
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