doubleofive

The Ritty said:

Now let me ask you a question - what didn’t you like about Star Trek 12? Forget the SW nonsense we’ve back and forth’d above - this is about ST. I loved Darkness, I know a lot of people didn’t. I don’t see why a diff edit is needed. Beyond was ok but I don’t think that could even be fixed with a diff edit but what was your take on 12 and was the fan edit radically different or just a tighter, leaner animal?

The thing is, if you look up Vengeance on fanedit.org, you can find out what the editor didn’t like about the film and what changes he made to improve it for himself. That’s all people are asking for.

flametitan said:

I remember hearing that were deliberately designed to be ludicrous, more of a propaganda reel than literally true, but that may be apocryphal attempts to excuse it.

Sounds like a classic Legends way of keeping everything canon when no one designed anything to actually be canon.

Here’s the latest:

https://swrevisited.wordpress.com/2017/10/19/donation-drive-progress-update/

Here’s the latest:

https://swrevisited.wordpress.com/2017/10/19/donation-drive-progress-update/

Here’s the latest:

https://swrevisited.wordpress.com/2017/10/19/donation-drive-progress-update/

Warbler said:

I disagree. McCoy went back in time and altered history and thereby altered the timeline. He didn’t create a whole new one. If I went back in time and prevented the Lincoln assassination, I wouldn’t create a new timeline, I would just alter the original one.

Thank you, that’s another point I forgot.

If you went back in time to prevent the Lincoln assassination, what happens to you after it happens? Where did you come from anywhere? Your entire history has changed. And then in 2017, you wouldn’t have any reason to go back in time, hell, you might not even exist. What then?

Time travel actually creating alternate timelines prevents this from being a problem. You now live in the newly created past, from a reality where Lincoln was killed, but having created a timeline where he hasn’t.

We’re arguing about how time travel works in a fictional universe. The writers can make time travel work however they want. The writers of the new Star Trek movies are well on record saying they didn’t replace the Prime Timeline.

My final point: The Supernova-Powered Red Matter Black Hole is possibly closer to a quantum fissure than the thousand other ways people travel in time, possibly putting people in alternate quantum realities. It’s not like we would know any better because any time travel story is affected by what character the audience is meant to follow. It’s possible that my Star Trek 4 theory happens every time someone jumps in time, we just don’t stick with the existing timeline but jump with them into the new one. People aren’t ever saving their timeline, they just find themselves in the timelines they fixed by their own actions.

To keep it out of theory and into canon, “In A Mirror Darkly” shows that the Defiant from Tholian Web ends up in the past and in an alternate reality.

And with that, I leave the thread.

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

doubleofive said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Star Trek and Stargate both go by the premise that “anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities.” It’s just that the characters from those realities assert that their version of reality is the only one that matters (which is an actual quote from Teal’c.)

The Prime Universe does still exist. As does the universe in Yesterday’s Enterprise and the Mirror Universe. To say that Prime does not exist is to say Mirror does not exist; and the Mirror Universe’s timeline, which is wholly separate from Prime, was accessed repeatedly by Prime characters (and vice versa) during the events of Deep Space Nine, not to mention TOS and Enterprise.

Star Trek 2009 nine makes it clear that the Narada when back in time, altered history and thereby turned the prime universe into the Kelvin universe. There may be an alternate universe that is exactly the same at the prime universe, but it would only be a duplicate universe and not the prime universe. As far as I know, Discovery does not take place in an alternate universe that is a duplicate of the prime universe, it takes place in the prime universe itself.

It actually specifically makes the opposite clear. The Narada created a divergent timeline that they call “an alternate reality”. The Prime universe is still there, untouched (just without Romulus). See also: Star Trek Online, which continues in a post-Romulus Prime timeline.

No where in Star Trek 2009 does it say that the Narada went to a different universe, it just went back in time and changed history.

That’s not how time travel in Star Trek works. You should watched the TNG episode “Parallels” again. In that episode, Troi was not worried about being non-existent should Worf fix the space-time continuum; she was worried that her version of Worf, to whom she was married and had children, would not return to be with her after all was said and done.

The timelines that Worf encountered in that episode were “alternate timelines” that existed before that episode and continue to exist afterward. The Trek multiverse does not have a single line of causality in which only one version exists at any one time. I’m certain we do, here, in real life, but Star Trek is fiction. So there doesn’t have to be a real life that-doesn’t-make-sense-from-what-I-know-of-God reasoning for why Trek must have a single timeline.

Yes, “Parallels”! Perfect!

I firmly believe that events like Star Trek 4 create multiple timelines. There’s one in which the Bounty disappears and Earth is destroyed. Then there’s the one the series continues to follow, where they reappear with the whales. We just follow the timeline where the main characters happen to be at the time.

Warbler said:

doubleofive said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Star Trek and Stargate both go by the premise that “anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities.” It’s just that the characters from those realities assert that their version of reality is the only one that matters (which is an actual quote from Teal’c.)

The Prime Universe does still exist. As does the universe in Yesterday’s Enterprise and the Mirror Universe. To say that Prime does not exist is to say Mirror does not exist; and the Mirror Universe’s timeline, which is wholly separate from Prime, was accessed repeatedly by Prime characters (and vice versa) during the events of Deep Space Nine, not to mention TOS and Enterprise.

Star Trek 2009 nine makes it clear that the Narada when back in time, altered history and thereby turned the prime universe into the Kelvin universe. There may be an alternate universe that is exactly the same at the prime universe, but it would only be a duplicate universe and not the prime universe. As far as I know, Discovery does not take place in an alternate universe that is a duplicate of the prime universe, it takes place in the prime universe itself.

It actually specifically makes the opposite clear. The Narada created a divergent timeline that they call “an alternate reality”. The Prime universe is still there, untouched (just without Romulus). See also: Star Trek Online, which continues in a post-Romulus Prime timeline.

No where in Star Trek 2009 does it say that the Narada went to a different universe, it just went back in time and changed history.

SPOCK: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. To the contrary, Nero’s very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
UHURA: An alternate reality?
SPOCK: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed.

If the writers meant for it to wipe out the Prime timeline (which they specifically say they didn’t), they would not have had them describe it IN THE MOVIE as an alternate reality. There are enough changes in the prologue of the movie to show that it might be a completely alternate universe, like another Mirror Universe.

Me, right now

As for Discovery, it takes place in the Prime timeline. Nothing about the content of the plot has contradicted anything in the timeline that I can see. The visual changes should not be explained away in-universe, like Enterprise tried to do with the Augment Virus. This is how it looks in a show made in 2017, just as it should. As fun as the fan films are with their 100% accurate sets and makeup, that isn’t want a modern trek should be. It SHOULD be pushing the envelope for effects and prosthetics and telling stories that are relevant to today, and you know what, Discovery is doing exactly that.

I disagree. If you want it to be “how it looks in a show made in 2017”, then call it a total reboot, totally having nothing to do with the original cannon. But if you are going to put it in the original cannon, it should look like it.

Do you have this problem with Enterprise? Do you accept that the Refit Enterprise in TMP is the same ship as the original, even though every detail of her is different? How do you feel about Cardassians and Trill changing between TNG and DS9? They’re all in the Prime universe, but each one has a different spin on how things look because that’s how you make television.

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Star Trek and Stargate both go by the premise that “anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities.” It’s just that the characters from those realities assert that their version of reality is the only one that matters (which is an actual quote from Teal’c.)

The Prime Universe does still exist. As does the universe in Yesterday’s Enterprise and the Mirror Universe. To say that Prime does not exist is to say Mirror does not exist; and the Mirror Universe’s timeline, which is wholly separate from Prime, was accessed repeatedly by Prime characters (and vice versa) during the events of Deep Space Nine, not to mention TOS and Enterprise.

Star Trek 2009 nine makes it clear that the Narada when back in time, altered history and thereby turned the prime universe into the Kelvin universe. There may be an alternate universe that is exactly the same at the prime universe, but it would only be a duplicate universe and not the prime universe. As far as I know, Discovery does not take place in an alternate universe that is a duplicate of the prime universe, it takes place in the prime universe itself.

It actually specifically makes the opposite clear. The Narada created a divergent timeline that they call “an alternate reality”. The Prime universe is still there, untouched (just without Romulus). See also: Star Trek Online, which continues in a post-Romulus Prime timeline.

As for Discovery, it takes place in the Prime timeline. Nothing about the content of the plot has contradicted anything in the timeline that I can see. The visual changes should not be explained away in-universe, like Enterprise tried to do with the Augment Virus. This is how it looks in a show made in 2017, just as it should. As fun as the fan films are with their 100% accurate sets and makeup, that isn’t want a modern trek should be. It SHOULD be pushing the envelope for effects and prosthetics and telling stories that are relevant to today, and you know what, Discovery is doing exactly that.

Tobar said:

You guys are starting to sound like the prequel apologist crowd coming up with your own head canon (ring theory) justifications for awful decisions.

We’re not trying to justify writing here, we’re justifying why some ships are different colors.

Tobar said:

You guys are starting to sound like the prequel apologist crowd coming up with your own head canon (ring theory) justifications for awful decisions.

We’re not trying to justify writing here, we’re justifying why some ships are different colors.

This week’s episode had a fancy new Klingon ship identified as a D7, which is the classic TOS model. This goes with my friend’s headcanon that Star Trek has been like a historical record for future people who live in the Trek universe, so the effects are limited by the budget in-universe. Each visual change in more recent series are more representative of how they actually looked, or the recreation of this particular series took an artistic choice.

Adding this layer of fiction within the fiction helps smooth over any changes for me.

I’ve got it: cut the entire Sail Barge Battle. Make mind tricks work, then we’re done! 😉

Right, it’s one thing to hear stories about 10,000 people who had magic powers who were wiped out 20 years ago and to actually experience it yourself.

Tobar said:

dahmage said:

Why on earth does captain Lorca have a Tribble on his desk?

Yeah, that almost bugged me as much as Scotty already having one in his ice base in the Kelvin timeline.

Lorca may have one to root out Klingon spies. He might already know they don’t like Klingons, which may come in handy after this week’s episode.

Adywan’s Internet is being shitty, so this is why he’s been radio silent recently.

I would hope he fixes the reflection under the troopers as its still a wall…

ChainsawAsh said:

Haven’t finished reading the book yet, but each story is meant to be told from the POV of a different character and they’re all unreliable narrators, so inconsistencies are to be expected.

This is true. Hell, the Cantina Band story is an excerpt from an autobiography, so the details it has that doesn’t add up with Greedo’s story may be explained away with it being exaggerated for the autobiography reader. Taking that and removing one of the pilot stories completely, the rest of my “canon” inconsistencies mostly go away.

fishmanlee said:

Did Adywan ever fix the continuity error with Leia’s belt in the Trash Compactor scene?

No. What error?

Oh god, I want to talk about Movies Anywhere, the new digital movie locker, but there are literally 100 movie threads now.

So now I’ve necrobumped this thread.

Finished FACPOV. Overall, I’ll say I enjoyed it. There were a couple clunkers, but that’s to be expected. There were a few stories that established things and the next story established the opposite, which is odd. Were there too many pilots on Yavin, or not enough? Other than things like that, it was a good mix of drama and humor.

Alright then, Section 31 kept it a secret. 😉

That or it all ends with Discovery’s atoms spread across the universe.

Bingowings said:

RE :Self Reporting, I’m pretty sure if you sent a PM to a moderator requesting to be banned your wishes would be granted 😃

Any Hooo…
This is as much for AR:SE as for ROTJ:R, what with Rogue One having very polished reflective floors in key rooms is it possible or desirable to do something similar for Death Star interiors in other films?
The floors are quite reflective in both films but not to the same mirror effect of Rogue One and I quite liked the effect. It makes the rooms look other worldly and obsessively sterile and buffed. So many OT Death Star sets have dents and scratches and scuff marks. Jedi has some very tatty cobbled together sets which are kind of forgivable for the Rebels but not so much for the Empire.

Wouldn’t we need actual reflections of EVERYTHING to make the floor reflective?

I’m saying that they probably designed the animation to fit into the 16:9 frame since it was primarily distributed in that format (action safe areas, etc). I’m sure there’s some bonus feature that refutes that. I really just wanted to make the Cartoon Network OAR joke.