darthrush

yhwx said:

File under “Links that Frink already posted but are relevant to the conversation:”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-owens/4-problematic-statements-white-people-make-about-race_b_9212864.html

The part pertaining to “I don’t see color”/“color blind:”

1. “I Don’t See Color.”

On the surface, this might seem like a harmless statement affirming that race doesn’t matter to you one way or another. But what it’s really doing is claiming that all of us are the same - which isn’t true. Because even though we are all human and are all made of the same stuff, it is our responsibility to acknowledge that, since we do exist within a societal system of racism, the color of our skin can and does dictate the way each of us experiences life.

To state that there is no difference between a white person and a black person is to completely erase the black person’s experience of oppression in today’s society - and that’s not helpful.

What to say instead: “Though I believe every human deserves equal rights, I recognize that people of color have had very different experiences of life than I have, due to the struggles they have endured based on the color of their skin.”

Me and warbler agree that we both would rather judge someone soley on their actions and what type of person they are rather than their race and I don’t see how that is wrong in the slightest. Neither of us would deny the roots of racism and that it existed but I would argue that it isn’t a major deciding factor for someone’s future in America. I think that is mainly up to you as an indidvual.

Warbler said:

darthrush said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

I’m surprised nobody has said that they’re “color blind” yet.

Yeah another ridiculous thing. Now it is racist to for one to say they are “color blind”. That used to be a positive thing to be, now it is racist.

It’s not racist, per se, but it’s not helpful.

why isn’t being “color blind” helpful? Isn’t it the direct opposite of being racist?

Race is still a huge problem in America. Notice how almost all police shootings target black people?

I don’t know how true that is, I do know whenever there is a police shooting of a black person that is in any way suspicious, it makes headlines. I can’t say the same for police shootings of white people.

btw, notice how the officer is almost always presumed guilty by groups like Black Lives Matter?

Warbler, your spot on here. Being color blind is what we should strive for in a fight to end all racism.

You know, I am starting to believe whenever a term becomes popular to use to say that one is not racist, that term is going to be deemed to be wrong and racist to use.

That’s exactly what the left does. Continuous and constant attempts to control speech and what words are racist or bigoted. It limits discussion of real ideas when you just tell someone they’re a racist or bigot. A leftist will opt out of a conversation in that situation because they think they’re unearned sense of moral superiority is a way out.

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

yhwx said:

darthrush said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

darthrush said:
what I’m doing is analyzing the concept of white privilege and making the claim that it is a racist concept.

Would you have made the same claim if it were, oh, say, the year 1800 ?

Of course not. Our country is constantly evolving and changing. Abolishment of slavery, civil rights movement, etc.

Racism is still not solved though.

I do not believe that racism plays a role as a major obstacle anymore for someone to succeed in America. You actually have an extra advantage when it comes to college admissions if your of color. I fail to see any substantial evidence that racism still is a major obstacle for black people to succeed.

Holy shit man.

I see my claim surprises you.

It doesn’t surprise me, it disgusts me, and this is the last post I’m making on the subject.

Alright then. I would have loved to hear why you believe what you believe but I guess if my opinion shakes you to such a degree, then I’ll let ya be.

yhwx said:

darthrush said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

I’m surprised nobody has said that they’re “color blind” yet.

Yeah another ridiculous thing. Now it is racist to for one to say they are “color blind”. That used to be a positive thing to be, now it is racist.

It’s not racist, per se, but it’s not helpful.

why isn’t being “color blind” helpful? Isn’t it the direct opposite of being racist?

Race is still a huge problem in America. Notice how almost all police shootings target black people?

I don’t know how true that is, I do know whenever there is a police shooting of a black person that is in any way suspicious, it makes headlines. I can’t say the same for police shootings of white people.

btw, notice how the officer is almost always presumed guilty by groups like Black Lives Matter?

Warbler, your spot on here. Being color blind is what we should strive for in a fight to end all racism. And I cited some eye opening statistics a few posts earlier than yours about how there is not nearly as much discrimination when it comes to police brutality towards blacks as the media may want you to believe.

Jesus Christ. How are we supposed to solve racism if we don’t acknowledge race‽

I mean to say that we should not acknowledge the race of someone when evaluating them for college or a job. Those positions should be judged purely on merit and not at all with race. I hope that clears up more on what I think it means to be “color blind”. I can easily understand how you can interpret it to mean something else and want to make sure we’re on the same page.

yhwx said:

darthrush said:

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

yhwx said:

darthrush said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

darthrush said:
what I’m doing is analyzing the concept of white privilege and making the claim that it is a racist concept.

Would you have made the same claim if it were, oh, say, the year 1800 ?

Of course not. Our country is constantly evolving and changing. Abolishment of slavery, civil rights movement, etc.

Racism is still not solved though.

I do not believe that racism plays a role as a major obstacle anymore for someone to succeed in America. You actually have an extra advantage when it comes to college admissions if your of color. I fail to see any substantial evidence that racism still is a major obstacle for black people to succeed.

Holy shit man.

I see my claim surprises you. I understand that a lot of people still think racism still is a major obstacle for people to succeed and I am ready to see what your evidence is since you obviously subscribe to that belief but the fact that it is easier to get into prestigious colleges if you are of color is not refutable in the slightest. It’s called Affirmative Action.

Ahah ahaha.

Its frustrating when I continually ask to have a real and legitimate discussion about these ideas but all I ever get is “Holy Shit” and “ahah ahaha”. This is why debating with smug leftists gets old very fast.

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

I’m surprised nobody has said that they’re “color blind” yet.

Yeah another ridiculous thing. Now it is racist to for one to say they are “color blind”. That used to be a positive thing to be, now it is racist.

It’s not racist, per se, but it’s not helpful.

why isn’t being “color blind” helpful? Isn’t it the direct opposite of being racist?

Race is still a huge problem in America. Notice how almost all police shootings target black people?

I don’t know how true that is, I do know whenever there is a police shooting of a black person that is in any way suspicious, it makes headlines. I can’t say the same for police shootings of white people.

btw, notice how the officer is almost always presumed guilty by groups like Black Lives Matter?

Warbler, your spot on here. Being color blind is what we should strive for in a fight to end all racism. And I cited some eye opening statistics a few posts earlier than yours about how there is not nearly as much discrimination when it comes to police brutality towards blacks as the media may want you to believe.

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

yhwx said:

darthrush said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

darthrush said:
what I’m doing is analyzing the concept of white privilege and making the claim that it is a racist concept.

Would you have made the same claim if it were, oh, say, the year 1800 ?

Of course not. Our country is constantly evolving and changing. Abolishment of slavery, civil rights movement, etc.

Racism is still not solved though.

I do not believe that racism plays a role as a major obstacle anymore for someone to succeed in America. You actually have an extra advantage when it comes to college admissions if your of color. I fail to see any substantial evidence that racism still is a major obstacle for black people to succeed.

Holy shit man.

I see my claim surprises you. I understand that a lot of people still think racism still is a major obstacle for people to succeed and I am ready to see what your evidence is since you obviously subscribe to that belief but the fact that it is easier to get into prestigious colleges if you are of color is not refutable in the slightest. It’s called Affirmative Action.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

I’m surprised nobody has said that they’re “color blind” yet.

Yeah another ridiculous thing. Now it is racist to for one to say they are “color blind”. That used to be a positive thing to be, now it is racist.

It’s not racist, per se, but it’s not helpful. Race is still a huge problem in America. Notice how almost all police shootings target black people?

Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Greg Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene.

Also, Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black. According to Bureau of Justice Statistics, the police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.

yhwx said:

darthrush said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

darthrush said:
what I’m doing is analyzing the concept of white privilege and making the claim that it is a racist concept.

Would you have made the same claim if it were, oh, say, the year 1800 ?

Of course not. Our country is constantly evolving and changing. Abolishment of slavery, civil rights movement, etc.

Racism is still not solved though.

I do not believe that racism plays a role as a major obstacle anymore for someone to succeed in America. You actually have an extra advantage when it comes to college admissions if your of color. I fail to see any substantial evidence that racism still is a major obstacle for black people to succeed. If anything, single motherhood is a true obstacle for many black families and is linked to poverty according to the National Criminal Justice Reference Service report found here: https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=167327

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

darthrush said:
what I’m doing is analyzing the concept of white privilege and making the claim that it is a racist concept.

Would you have made the same claim if it were, oh, say, the year 1800 ?

Of course not. Our country is constantly evolving and changing. Abolishment of slavery, civil rights movement, etc.

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Warbler said:

Whatever pain women and minorities are experiencing is not my fault. I am not the one doing it. I am not and have never been anyone’s boss, so I have never had the opportunity to discriminate against anyone, and if I ever get the opportunity I will try as best as I can to treat everyone fairly. I’ve never raped or molested any women and never would. I always try as best as I can to treat women and minorities with respect. I don’t use racial slurs. I am more than willing to vote for women and minorities at election time. If any pain is coming from me, I don’t do it consciously and it is very, very, minor. Blame it on the men and white people who are really causing the pain. Just became I am a white male, does not mean that I am the problem.

I don’t think that’s the claim. The claim is that you (and I) have probably been the beneficiary of white privilege. Which then opens the door to the possibility that maybe we should be working to help correct it, even if we aren’t the cause.

Here’s a two minute clip where Jordan Peterson perfectly sums up why the idea of white privilege is absolutely reprehensible and dangerous to society and how it is a very racist concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZK9h_Mzmu8

I’m not watching a video “explaining” anything but he appears to be a white person.

You don’t have to watch anything but I’m not sure what his race should have to do with his argument. If you think your race is an inherent strength or weakness to an argument, then that’s the real issue.

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Warbler said:

Whatever pain women and minorities are experiencing is not my fault. I am not the one doing it. I am not and have never been anyone’s boss, so I have never had the opportunity to discriminate against anyone, and if I ever get the opportunity I will try as best as I can to treat everyone fairly. I’ve never raped or molested any women and never would. I always try as best as I can to treat women and minorities with respect. I don’t use racial slurs. I am more than willing to vote for women and minorities at election time. If any pain is coming from me, I don’t do it consciously and it is very, very, minor. Blame it on the men and white people who are really causing the pain. Just became I am a white male, does not mean that I am the problem.

I don’t think that’s the claim. The claim is that you (and I) have probably been the beneficiary of white privilege. Which then opens the door to the possibility that maybe we should be working to help correct it, even if we aren’t the cause.

Here’s a two minute clip where Jordan Peterson perfectly sums up why the idea of white privilege is absolutely reprehensible and dangerous to society and how it is a very racist concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZK9h_Mzmu8

TV’s Frink said:

Who is saying you guys are being racist or that racism is your fault? No one here ever said that.

I just don’t understand white men complaining about this kind of stuff. Even if I was accusing you of white or male privilege, it’s nothing compared to actual problems people have to deal with.

I did not say that any of you did or that anyone has to me but that is the very idea behind white privilege. So for the last time, I am not complaining about anyone calling me a racist, what I’m doing is analyzing the concept of white privilege and making the claim that it is a racist concept.

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

when minorities and women are experiencing pain orders of magnitude more worse than some random person on the Internet saying that white people are privileged.

Whatever pain women and minorities are experiencing is not my fault. I am not the one doing it. I am not and have never been anyone’s boss, so I have never had the opportunity to discriminate against anyone, and if I ever get the opportunity I will try as best as I can to treat everyone fairly. I’ve never raped or molested any women and never would. I always try as best as I can to treat women and minorities with respect. I don’t use racial slurs. I am more than willing to vote for women and minorities at election time. If any pain is coming from me, I don’t do it consciously and it is very, very, minor. Blame it on the men and white people who are really causing the pain. Just became I am a white male, does not mean that I am the problem.

Exactly. Which is why when someone says that the entire white race is guilty of this injustice, it is racist. And the only response to this so far has been personal attacks about what we should be complaining about instead of addressing the actual argument.

yhwx said:

darthrush said:

TV’s Frink said:

Goddamn there sure are a lot of oppressed white males in this thread.

If the worst thing that has happened to you is someone thinks you’re racist because you’re white, you’re living a pretty good life.

Didn’t ever say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to me or even that it happens specifically to myself. I see it happen elsewhere and all I’m doing is justifying why I think the idea of white privilege is racist.

I am happy to discuss with you on that actual point and am perfectly fine if you disagree but resorting to pointless responses like “Oh you just complain too much” is intellectually shallow and doesn’t get us anywhere.

It’s intellectually shallow to complain so much about “racism against whites” when minorities and women are experiencing pain orders of magnitude more worse than some random person on the Internet saying that white people are privileged.

Again, If I haven’t made it clear, I myself am not complaining about myself, I am arguing that the popular concept of white privilege is racist. Quit it with the character attacks and actually address my claim which has nothing to do with my own life experiences.

TV’s Frink said:

And in the category of stuff I actually care about (as opposed to white dudes complaining about being called racist), this tweet is insane even by Trump standards.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/884016887692234753?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded…

I can’t believe him sometimes. The difficulty of telling between his real tweets and those of a fake look alike account rises everyday.

TV’s Frink said:

Goddamn there sure are a lot of oppressed white males in this thread.

If the worst thing that has happened to you is someone thinks you’re racist because you’re white, you’re living a pretty good life.

Didn’t ever say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to me or even that it happens specifically to myself. I see it happen elsewhere and all I’m doing is justifying why I think the idea of white privilege is racist.

I am happy to discuss with you on that actual point and am perfectly fine if you disagree but resorting to pointless responses like “Oh you just complain too much” is intellectually shallow and doesn’t get us anywhere.

moviefreakedmind said:

Circumcision is a bad example. I don’t think people should do it to their kids, but it has an astronomically low probability of complications and no lasting damage.

I just don’t buy the idea that women have it so much worse than men in the United States. On certain things they do, but on others they don’t. Men are more likely to be homeless, more likely to be murdered, more likely to kill themselves, and judging by the fact that it gets almost no attention compared to the representation of women in STEM fields, those issues must be ingrained into American society just as much if not more. As Jeebus pointed out, sexual harassment happens to men too. It happens to women more, but as for yhx’s point about not seeing headlines about sexual harassment of men, I’d guess that it stems from the fact that almost nobody fucking cares when men get harassed, almost to the point of it not even being worth telling anyone about it. Anyway, the main reason I hate all of this “privilege” nonsense and immediately disregard most of the integrity of anyone who uses it as an counterargument is that it disregards the important nuances in the human condition. I’m sure a white kid with childhood schizophrenia (one of the most debilitating strands of schizophrenia) would be much better off (or dare I say, privileged) if he were a mentally healthy black kid, or a woman, or an immigrant. There are a lot of white people are way poorer than most black people, and they have no opportunities for social mobility. Instead of acknowledging that problems of poverty aren’t exclusive to a single race, even if it may disproportionately affect nonwhite races, the response is essentially that “white people”, every single one of them, are privileged and should essentially be disregarded while we sort out the “real issues” facing women and people of other races.

Exactly on point. Which is why when someone tells a white person that they are participating in a group crime/injustice (white privilge) and it’s based solely on their skin color, it inherently is racist.

Not sure that I am a liberal as this survey says. I am a firm believer in Capitalism and also believe in small government but oh well, I guess fiscal-conservative/social-libertarian still fits the bill for my political views despite what the survey says.

https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=41.5&d=48.4&g=60.4&s=67.0

Great work Sparky! I think the crawls look really fantastic.

teharri said:

It baffles me how people are trying to convince Ady to somehow include the Wampa. I think if he thought it were possible to salvage the work he created, he would. Ady, you have done an amazing job and your work will cherished by us all.

Exactly. If Ady says it won’t work, then it won’t work and it’s his project.

Go America! Of course we have our problems but I couldn’t be more proud to be a citizen of a country that stands for freedom and the power of the indidvual to make a difference in the world. Cheers to the greatest country in the world.

I’d say go for it also! I’d love to see this done!

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

Baby Driver… the main character didn’t feel quite fleshed out enough and there was some repetitive action in the third act.

Did we see the same movie?

The main character was so easily relatable and easy to connect with. And the romance blew my socks off too. Some of the complaints don’t just register with me at all. I will be seeing it again on Tuesday so my opinion could change but I expect myself to like it even more the second time around.

Deleted.