darthrush

ChainsawAsh said:

Frink? Whoa…

Things just got real.

Gimpy said:

NeverarGreat that is a much easier solution lol. I just thought black holes would be badass.

Right with ya there Gimpy! Black holes would be pretty freakin awesome if they included it in the script. Unless someone like adywan works there magic, NeverarGreat’s solution is probably the easiest and most effective.

soldatipokhod said:

Just discovered this site. What TLJ got right it got so right to me, but what it got wrong it got so wrong. Still, I thought the positives outweighed the negatives. I thought the movie was about 20-30 minutes too long to begin with and is just begging for a fan edit, here’s what I intend to do when I do mine:

• Delete the cancer that is Maz Kanata. “We’re going to need a codebreaker…I think I know someone” Immediately cut to transmission fading out. Who were they talking to? Who cares!
• “Fix” Canto Bight. Cut alien vomit. Sadly, can’t cut the joke about landing on public beach (are Finn and Rose stupid?) BDT unlocks cell. Reverse the shot of them following him out. Immediately cut to the ship. How did they get there and find BB-8? Who cares! I’m tempted to throw the whole thing out and just cut to BDT’s ship.
• Cut the shot of the dancing caretakers. I want to get rid of everything involving the caretakers, but I think that’s the only one that can easily go (neither Luke nor Rey is in the shot). I’ll have to see what I can do about the falling rock.
• Definitely cut the broom kid at the end. It almost seems like they want us to ax that part, the fanfare starts up with the falcon taking off and then we cut to the kid. What?

I think it’s simply to hard too remove a lot of the humor without seriously disrupting the flow of the film, so the jokes will have to stay.

My only other major gripe about the movie is that there is not enough Rey! I really hope the deleted scenes will show more training and that it will be possible to work them in without disrupting the flow too much.

Disney should really have their directors shoot two versions of these films: one for the kids and one for adults. That would fix a lot of the problems.

Solid list of cuts. I have a hard disagree on the humor. I will be cutting nearly all of it and I think it will be the easiest thing to cut for sure. After seeing the film again, I could tell how easy and seamless it would be to edit out basically every joke if I want to.

On that note, what were the best jokes worth keeping in people’s opinion? The one I can think of right now is “page turners, they were not”.

So excited to see the new version coming together so nicely! I would love if one of ya’ll could point me to a tutorial on how you do these effects. I am pretty fluent in Premiere but haven’t touched After Effects yet.

TavorX said:

Like holy shit, all of a sudden, it’s like a rush over me that is reconnecting the dots between the events of the past and the Luke we get in TLJ. Ben Solo at the time was a risk/threat to Luke’s new Jedi Academy. This Academy meant so much to Luke, it’s what his masters would be proud of and the burden he had on his shoulders to make it happen. The moment one single student would burn it, he had a moment where he snaps, hence the moment where he ignites the lightsaber in Kylo’s hut. But the passive Luke we know was always there because as he said, he immediately regretted it. It wasn’t only his mistake of freaking out Ben Solo at the time that made Kylo Ren, it was his huge narrow mindset that his sole purpose, especially as a legend, was to rebuild a Jedi Order once again from scratch.

But since he failed that, that was it, he felt overwhelmed. He let his masters down (so he thought), he let Han and Leia down, he failed Ben Solo, and he let the galaxy down. The galaxy has no room for legends that can’t live up to the burden bestowed on Luke.

I know I’m restating what most of these posters in this thread have been trying to get into my thick skull, but idk, it just clicked for me finally whenever darthrush dropped that comment about how Luke losing his raison d’etre logically leads to the loss of faith Luke we eventually get.

I also saw the flashback moment as Luke seeing things like his close friends dying too (Han). It wasn’t just the academy. It was his friends and the galactic state. Someone on here compared it to Luke having the chance to kill baby hitler and that’s a good way of putting it. He let his deep down flaws take a hold of him and what he had foreseen in that moment and he realized that he failed his apprentice. The coincidence of Ben waking up and the whole situation just led everything to the tragedy that happened and Luke felt like a complete failure to everyone around him.

TavorX said:

@darthrush
@Collipso

Consider me pulled toward the light(?), in terms of starting to like how Luke was done in TLJ after all then…

It’s bold, it’s different, and even quite jarring on first viewing. It’s not what I wanted, it’s what I didn’t know I needed.

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

It’s weird because I ahead always thought that Luke would be the unconventional Jedi that would walk away from the dogmatic Jedi Order from the past. Guess I was wrong, and he followed the Jedi just like those who came before him, and Rey is now what Luke was.

Except that Luke does the opposite when we reach the end of his arc. He accepts that the old way has come time to go away with the scene with Yoda, and he reaffirms what the Jedi are about when he saves the Resistance and his friends. It’s also the greatest act of epic pacifism that we have seen in all of Star Wars.

So he basically did the exact same thing he did in the end of RotJ in a more badass way?

EDIT: TLDR - Rotj is Luke learning to believe in others despite their flaws. TLJ is Luke learning to believe in himself despite his mistakes.

I actually quite like this, though I’m not sure if I buy it.

I thought TLJ sold it great. They reference his act of compassion in RotJ and how it brought him to legendary status and how this led to Luke’s downfall. TLJ shows that Luke wasn’t yet fully realized as a hero, and that he still was grappling with how his actions in RotJ changed how others and he saw himself.

Yeah, I guess the thing is I don’t like how he died and ultimately failed his goal. He simply learned his lesson and passed the torch on to Rey. Had they let him live and lead the new real Jedi/Force User group, I think it would’ve been perfect. The way it was executed leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth, because so far in the ST they have just gotten the arcs from the OT and thrown them into a trash can. At least Luke’s. They kind of redeemed Han, but Leia apparently lost everything she has ever fought and is inevitably going to die.

Luke isn’t really all that gone. He can still help as a force ghost, and he sure as heck did not fail. It’s made pretty clear that Luke saved what was left of the resistance, publicly humiliated Kylo and the First Order, and will serve as the spark in the universe that will ultimately destroy the first order. Before he died, he basically embodied hope and purpose and completed his arc while helping the galaxy and his friends.

TavorX said:

darthrush said:

TavorX said:

darthrush said:

TavorX said:

He did more than walk away from the old Jedi Order. He walked away completely from everything and everyone.

Because he is a flawed character who thought he was too dangerous to do any good. It’s kinda the necessary foundation for his character arc.

I’m almost willing to forgive the Luke tempted to kill Kylo flashback stuff, but what will still remain a head-scratcher to me is buying the idea that post Jedi Academy-Luke doing absolutely nothing, NOTHING, to use his time on the island to figure out a way to redeem Kylo or help in any capacity, especially when he hides little clues like a piece of the map of his location in R2D2. I feel like an ashamed Luke will guilt him into action; not “leave me to die” Luke.

He wanted to die because he felt like he failed in his ultimate purpose in life and what Yoda wanted of him. He lost faith in himself. And if the arc is about Luke learning to believe in himself again (which is a great arc) then he needs to lose faith in himself at one point and feel that he is better off staying away from everything. His speech about “Luke Skywalker, a legend” says this perfectly.

I’m struggling so much here because on paper, it sounds GREAT. But again, I can’t ignore little clues like leaving behind that map puzzle piece in R2D2 for someone to stumble upon it, like Rey, when the time was “right”. Leaving those clues sounds like TFA was setting up the Luke I was thinking of, the one that didn’t give up completely during isolation. If there was no clues left behind, then I would digest this easier, because on paper, I believe you’re right, if Luke felt he let down Yoda in rebuilding a new Jedi Order, then yeah, I guess he would give up everything. What’s your take on the map piece? How does it still work in the frame-work of TLJ?

I always saw the map as something that R2 just had in his backup data and when he finished searching it (ala TFA - Restructured), he gave it to them to help find Luke. I don’t see it as something that Luke left behind on purpose or anything. Just R2 giving a helping hand to find his friend. I think the difficulty of finding him makes it more clear that he did not want to be found, hence his line, “You think I came to the most unfindable place in the galaxy for no reason at all?”.

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

It’s weird because I ahead always thought that Luke would be the unconventional Jedi that would walk away from the dogmatic Jedi Order from the past. Guess I was wrong, and he followed the Jedi just like those who came before him, and Rey is now what Luke was.

Except that Luke does the opposite when we reach the end of his arc. He accepts that the old way has come time to go away with the scene with Yoda, and he reaffirms what the Jedi are about when he saves the Resistance and his friends. It’s also the greatest act of epic pacifism that we have seen in all of Star Wars.

So he basically did the exact same thing he did in the end of RotJ in a more badass way?

EDIT: TLDR - Rotj is Luke learning to believe in others despite their flaws. TLJ is Luke learning to believe in himself despite his mistakes.

I actually quite like this, though I’m not sure if I buy it.

I thought TLJ sold it great. They reference his act of compassion in RotJ and how it brought him to legendary status and how this led to Luke’s downfall. TLJ shows that Luke wasn’t yet fully realized as a hero, and that he still was grappling with how his actions in RotJ changed how others and he saw himself.

TavorX said:

darthrush said:

TavorX said:

He did more than walk away from the old Jedi Order. He walked away completely from everything and everyone.

Because he is a flawed character who thought he was too dangerous to do any good. It’s kinda the necessary foundation for his character arc.

I’m almost willing to forgive the Luke tempted to kill Kylo flashback stuff, but what will still remain a head-scratcher to me is buying the idea that post Jedi Academy-Luke doing absolutely nothing, NOTHING, to use his time on the island to figure out a way to redeem Kylo or help in any capacity, especially when he hides little clues like a piece of the map of his location in R2D2. I feel like an ashamed Luke will guilt him into action; not “leave me to die” Luke.

He wanted to die because he felt like he failed in his ultimate purpose in life and what Yoda wanted of him. He lost faith in himself. And if the arc is about Luke learning to believe in himself again (which is a great arc) then he needs to lose faith in himself at one point and feel that he is better off staying away from everything. His speech about “Luke Skywalker, a legend” says this perfectly.

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

It’s weird because I ahead always thought that Luke would be the unconventional Jedi that would walk away from the dogmatic Jedi Order from the past. Guess I was wrong, and he followed the Jedi just like those who came before him, and Rey is now what Luke was.

Except that Luke does the opposite when we reach the end of his arc. He accepts that the old way has come time to go away with the scene with Yoda, and he reaffirms what the Jedi are about when he saves the Resistance and his friends. It’s also the greatest act of epic pacifism that we have seen in all of Star Wars.

So he basically did the exact same thing he did in the end of RotJ in a more badass way?

I would say this film is sending a similar message yet not retreading or backtracking in his character development. In RotJ, it’s about Luke and how he sees his father, normally someone who a son would look towards as an example. It’s about Luke learning to believe in someone.

TLJ is about Luke dealing with the struggles of what it means to be a master/teacher, and about believing in himself, which was a lesson he still needed to fully learn from the ESB scene where he can’t lift the x-wing due to lack of faith in himself.

EDIT: TLDR - Rotj is Luke learning to believe in others despite their flaws. TLJ is Luke learning to believe in himself despite his mistakes.

TavorX said:

He did more than walk away from the old Jedi Order. He walked away completely from everything and everyone.

Because he is a flawed character who thought he was too dangerous to do any good. It’s kinda the necessary foundation for his character arc.

Collipso said:

It’s weird because I ahead always thought that Luke would be the unconventional Jedi that would walk away from the dogmatic Jedi Order from the past. Guess I was wrong, and he followed the Jedi just like those who came before him, and Rey is now what Luke was.

Except that Luke does the opposite when we reach the end of his arc. He accepts that the old way has come time to go away with the scene with Yoda, and he reaffirms what the Jedi are about when he saves the Resistance and his friends. It’s also the greatest act of epic pacifism that we have seen in all of Star Wars.

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

TavorX said:

I believe the shot of those books should stay not just because of what was been mentioned already, but it may send the wrong message when you’ve got the baddie Kylo Ren saying, “Let the past die, kill it” and then we’re led to think Yoda just ‘killed’ the past. Rey saving those books means both her and Yoda won’t let the past die.

I always saw the letting go of the past as something both sides did but in the evil and good way. Kylo kills his past so as to forget the love of his former friends and family so as to gain power. Our heroes are meant to learn and not dwell on the past and to rise above our past mistakes. Two very different sides of the coin of letting go of the past. Another element of “balance” in the film.

I agree, but I think there’s a difference between moving on from the past and killing it and everything it stood for.

Yoda did burn the tree and everything it stood for. It stood as a symbol of a sacred and special place to hold sacred and special texts that dictate the old dogmatic ways of the Jedi. Yoda symbolically moves on from this and it isn’t hateful or “Killing the past” like Kylo. Yoda explains quite beautifully the importance of the simple things Rey possesses to continue the true legacy of the Jedi and how Luke has to learn to move on from the past.

Even at the end this theme is repeated. After Luke says he will not be the Last Jedi we see Rey use her powers to save her friends, but we also see her reunite with Finn and we see the immense amount of love she has for her friends and how she used her powers for good. We cut back to Luke with a face of content and happiness as he realizes what he is fighting for. He is fighting to salvage the love and beauty of others around him like Finn and Rey reuniting.

TavorX said:

I believe the shot of those books should stay not just because of what was been mentioned already, but it may send the wrong message when you’ve got the baddie Kylo Ren saying, “Let the past die, kill it” and then we’re led to think Yoda just ‘killed’ the past. Rey saving those books means both her and Yoda won’t let the past die.

I always saw the letting go of the past as something both sides did but in the evil and good way. Kylo kills his past so as to forget the love of his former friends and family so as to gain power. Our heroes are meant to learn and not dwell on the past and to rise above our past mistakes. Two very different sides of the coin of letting go of the past. Another element of “balance” in the film.

This is why I feel everything with Rey, Luke, Kylo, and Snoke is almost flawless minus some over the top humor moments. It’s just darn Canto Bight that brings the film down from greatness.

Hal 9000 said:

If there were no shot of the books at the end of the film, is Yoda a book burner?

yes, and it maintains the theme of the entire scene.

TavorX said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I actually have (in my humble opinion) a great and pretty simple idea for the Hux “hold” bit.

Hux starts his big speech, then partway through it we cut to Poe’s cockpit where we see the “loading bar.” When it finishes, Poe attacks.

You lose all the “tooling” stuff, but the humor is still there since Poe now cuts off Hux’s speechifying before he has a chance to finish. You can use the cut to the cockpit to stitch together the two separate longer bits of Hux’s speech, making it seem like he was never interrupted by the “I’ll hold” part.

Whaddaya think?

That may depend on what Hux was saying monologue-wise, which I can’t remember. What was he saying that wasn’t a reaction to Poe’s lines?
It could work though, but at the same time, it might be kinda weird to have Poe silent, but if the loading bar and Hux scene switching is fast enough, edit wise, it may work.

Yeah, that could work. I was originally planning to just cut from them seeing a single fighter approaching to Poe’s ship boosting and then beginning his attack. That would mean just no joke but would establish a consistent tone since you get a sacrifice a few minutes later.

DominicCobb said:

Just because she saves the books doesn’t mean she’ll be married to the dogmatic views expressed in them. It was Luke that seemed beholden to that narrow minded view of them, not Rey.

It’s not as much a complaint of Rey as a character but rather the fact that the shot of the books is not needed and unnecessarily clouds what was otherwise a simple and powerful message. There’s just quite bluntly no need for the shot of the books.

Hal 9000 said:

Thanks for that. I agree… with you agreeing with me.

Can you shed some light on why that (alleged) shot of the books at the end is there? What’s it mean? It seems bizarre that me and you read it one way, and yet joefavs feels confident in saying “of course Yoda isn’t advocating burning books.”

Just perplexing.

I see the shot of the books as somewhat of a stupid fakeout on the audience. It doesn’t belong in the film and will be the first thing I cut when I get the blu ray.

The whole message is that the force is for everyone and it is much simpler than what the old order made it out to be. It isn’t dependent on a set of rules in some old texts, so Yoda should destroy the books as seen without some dumb fakeout at the end.

Hal 9000 said:

joefavs said:

Yoda absolutely knows that Rey has the texts, it’s the whole reason he’s so cavalier about blowing up the tree. His actual line is “yes, yes, wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess”. He’s letting Luke think he means that Rey doesn’t need the books, but he’s actually saying she literally possesses them.

That’s fine, if a little “technical” on Yoda’s part. The problem is that the scene plays out clearly implying one thing, then the end of the movie has a very quick shot (which I have yet to perceive with my eyes; I’m trusting you guys that it really happened) which seems to imply the precise opposite. This film is littered with things like this, and with the example of the Yoda scene, I am still very uncertain what to make of it.

EDIT: This film intentionally sets out to antagonize people like me. I don’t exactly like that as an elected goal, but I can attempt to perceive and accept it for what it is trying to do. The fact that it jerks me around constantly and makes me feel like a monkey is another category of complaint.

I’m right with ya Hal on the Yoda technicality. I will edit out the last shot of the books cause I think Yoda’s lesson to Luke is that some old books aren’t what you need to save the galaxy. It’s doing the right thing, saving your friends, and using your powers for defense of what is good in the universe. So when Yoda also brings back the line of “Pass on what you have learned”, I see this as Yoda telling Luke not to pass on just some sort of knowledge, but pass on what Yoda taught him about what it means to be a Jedi. Luke shows everyone that despite failing Kylo and his friends, he still came back to save his friends and use his powers for good. To inspire hope in others. Ultimately, that is what Yoda wanted Luke to “pass on”. I think Luke came back after Yoda talked to him because Yoda reminded him about the true meaning of what it means to be a Jedi. So when Yoda agrees it is time for the Jedi to end, I believe they are speaking about the old dogmatic order. But Luke learns what it means to be a true Jedi master by the end and declares that Rey will continue his legacy and inspire others.

This is the main theme and message conveyed with Luke and Rey for me and one of the reasons I both love the film and think it is really important to cut the books from the end.

DominicCobb said:

The consensus seems to be he looks weird/bad in the wide shots but great in the close ups. Don’t know how it works like that, but I agree.

I agree with this. The close shots are literally spot on. I was blown away how great it looked when he was right up next to Luke.

HerekittykittyX said:

Ok
. Cut the rose and Finn story line to a minimum

Also cut out that weird call with Maz just take out the whole casino sequence what would you lose just cut to them in the first order you can fill the gaps in your mind

Keep the focus on Rey Luke Kylo Ren snoke and Poe

Only major change but beside that just cut out some bad lines and you got a great Star Wars movie

So your idea is that we see Finn say it’s possible to get the shields down and Poe’s head looks up with an idea. But then the very next time we see them they are with a random character we haven’t been introduced to and they’re on the ship that was seemingly impossible to get on?

Sounds a bit more than just filling the gaps in your mind. Trust me, I want to cut it as much as possible too, but am struggling to think of logical ways to get rid of Canto Bight entirely without consequences on the integrity of the story.

DominicCobb said:

Some completely randomly chosen preliminary shots from ROTS (FYI the originals are 720 and mine are 1080, so the difference in resolution is not me being a wizard or anything).

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/126575
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/126576
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/126577

Holy hell, those are massive improvements. I’m loving the grading you’ve got so far here.

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Hello StarWarsReviewer! Glad you could come to here to accurately diagnose me as a stupid person with ADHD.

I love you

Hello StarWarsReviewer! Glad you could come to here to accurately diagnose me as a stupid person with ADHD.