darth_ender

When fighting, it's wisest to stand defensively, and then make a quick offensive strike where your opponent is vulnerable.  They leave their whole front side open with their blades in a position where it would in reality take too long to safely parry an attack.

TPM does have the worst pacing, but it still somehow does carry a closer to OT feel than the other two.  That frustrates me.  I'd love to see someone pull off the all-amazing-awe-inspiring-Antimatter trick of actually erasing Jar Jar from the picture.  That would begin to work some wonders.  Some dubbing would go a long way too.

Maybe if it were a one-time stance for coolness sake, but they do it at least three times I think.  Really, think about how dangerous standing like that would be, and how unlikely it is that they would both adopt this sort of stance after years of training.  It's more like two fighters knowing they look cool on camera and not really fighting.

To that duel's credit, I personally like the lighting during that scene where the blades light their faces and we can't see the actual moves so much.  I find that worthwhile and OT reminiscent.  Still, I just imagine if Dooku were fighting more along the lines of a proper fencer...that would be sweet in my mind.

I'm not asking for a total overhaul, but like you said, an OT touch up.  I know certain things could never even be changed, but I'm just giving reasons why it's inconsistent with the OT and therefore bugs me a bit.

Pacing is another thing that feels too different from the OT to me.  TPM in particular felt rushed much of the time with not enough dialogue to fill a decent scene, and yet the dialogue present telling us so little (Your Highness, we're going to Tatooine."  "I don't agree." "Trust my judgment." End scene).  I wish we got more character and that scenes didn't feel rushed.  I don't know how this could be achieved, as editing usually involves more cutting than adding, but this thread is sort of like the radical redux threads.

And there are professionals who can recover material that's been deleted and even overwritten.  Either way, try not to put anything new on those drives.  Good luck.  Even though I'm disappointed, I'm sure it's a much greater loss to you.  Don't give up hope yet :)

I'm not nearly the visual guru that Angel is, but personally I like the shot as is.  Sometimes it's nice to have a shot that leaves the eyes wondering where the focus will be, then zooming in or cutting to the right folks.  It reminds me of ROTJ when we are in the Mon Cal hangar just before Lando is made custodian of the Falcon and Han and co. get on the shuttle.  It's just a wide shot that draws your attention to various places.  In motion, I'm sure I'd have a better opinion to provide.

I definitely like darker, as it is more reminiscent of OT, and doesn't show off the plastic-y nature of the PT as much.

Looks good, and does make them appear more overwhelming.  I'm surprised how such minor changes could make them appear overwhelming quickly, like the Zerg in Starcraft.

My mommy tells me I came from Heaven.

MrInsaneA said:

darth_ender said:

Off the top of my head, just from TPM, charging toward Qui-Gon and Maul through the shielded corridor, repeatedly spinning his saber to the side; mimicking Maul's efficient disengagement by doing his own balletic pose just after Qui-Gon was stabbed; earlier he and Qui-Gon followed Maul jumping over a bridge, Qui-Gon simply jumps, Kenobi flips.  I've noticed the pointless spinning many times throughout the PT.  In ROTS, his stance when he says, "I don't think so," as he faces Grievous is just silly.  I'm going a lot from memory and what I've read of others more knowledgeable in sword-fighting, but now that they pointed it out, instead of looking cool, it bugs me a bit.  It looks "cool" in the sense that it's fast and carries a sort of arrogance with it that we Americans are so fond of, but in reality it's just wasted energy.

Luke did unnecessary flips also. Dagobah, Bespin, the Emperor's Throne Room...so it honestly doesn't bother me one bit when Obi-Wan or any Jedi for that matter, tries to get a little fancy or "arrogant." Personal preference? Yeah,sure. But it isn't completely contrary to what was established in the OT.

 

On Dagobah Luke was training, on Cloud City he was supposed to be an arrogant aggressor, and still I believe his jumps were largely well-calculated and necessary, not just fun showing off.  I can only think of Luke's jump into that circular control area and then backflip onto the catwalk, which was IMO well designed to disengage from the fight and try reasoning with his old man.

The funny thing is I don't criticize the Jinn/Kenobi/Maul fight because it seems like it had to be that way.  After no new Star Wars movies for 16 years, we expect something along the same lines, and I believe Jinn and Kenobi came off pretty cool in TPM, but when it came to the fighting, they were facing a completely new challenge, one who had trained in a different style, and it took all their skills to face him.  I think the continuous efforts to outdo that fight actually cheapened the effect of the whole trilogy.  It was cool once, but I'd rather have seen Dooku as a champion with the controlled blade instead of other wild swinging.  But as I just stated, he does do that somewhat.  I guess even more would have been to my taste, like a modern day fencer or something like that: quick, controlled, centered.

Ultimately, it is all personal preference, and I like the PT better than 90% on this site.  It's not that I hate the fight scenes but feel they would be improved, and as is this threads intent, better fitting with the OT if they were executed as I suggested.

MrInsaneA said:

darth_ender said:

I imagine so.  Just shooting out ideas.  And I always hated Obi-Wan spinning in ANH, even as a 6 year-old watching some old dude pointlessly spinning.  It's interesting however that overall his style is conservative and respectable in spite of its slower appearance.  In reality his defensive style is wise.  But in the end probably not too much can be done to make it all the same.  If someone with great CGI skills simply kept Kenobi better planted, that would almost do it all for me.  But to add to it, if we simply saw different, more OT type fighting from Dooku and from the lesser known characters, that would help.  Cutting Palpatine's jumps also would be a good thing, now that I'm thinking of it.  I know the Yoda fights are not terribly popular, but I don't know if it could be fixed in a respectable manner.  Some edits have removed them, but I've not yet watched them to see how it flows.  It seems like it could be lacking without it.  Perhaps some incredible CGI skills could show only the force fighting and add a couple of things.  I dunno.  Oh!  And one final irritation  about the fighting: during the dumb faceoff pose that Dooku and Anakin give each other, why on earth would they stand a foot apart and both hold their lightsabers behind their backs!?

Palp's jumps should definately be cut if only because they look incredibly fake. As for Dooku's fighting style, I always thought he was more of an OT fighter then most, so I guess that's a matter of personal preference.

And Yoda's fights are honestly unfixable IMO. I've tried slowing them down, and editing them so that he never leaves the position he's in (kind of to show that he doesn't need to attack and instead chooses only to defend.) but it just doesn't work. To much of the fight involves him off the ground.

And during which Dooku v. Anakin fight are you referring to when they give the dumb face-off pose? 

I guess I was exaggerating when I said behind the back, but I was going from faulty memory, not flat out lies :)  Well, I admit standing a foot apart was an exaggeration for effect, but stil...Anyway, I just looked on Youtube and grabbed this snapshot.  I'm sure I could have found a better, but still it's a stupid way to face your opponent:

They stand face to face like this a few times, and it's really kind of dumb.

Just watching and I agree, Dooku's style is closer to the OT, so if anyone's should be left largely intact it should be his.  Still, if I remember correctly, in ROTS he gets a little crazier with the flips.  I'll have to watch now before I say too much so I don't put my foot in my mouth, but if I'm right, I would again prefer to cut out some of the flipping.

Palpatine definitely flips around too much.  I prefer the idea of Aalanfae to remove the other Jedi arresting him and just having Mace.  Someone suggested dimming the lights once, I remember, and I thought that was a good idea as well so he could put up a decent fight.

Yeah, I can't imagine much could be reasonably done to fix Yoda without some pricey software, a lot of skills, and plenty of time.

I imagine so.  Just shooting out ideas.  And I always hated Obi-Wan spinning in ANH, even as a 6 year-old watching some old dude pointlessly spinning.  It's interesting however that overall his style is conservative and respectable in spite of its slower appearance.  In reality his defensive style is wise.  But in the end probably not too much can be done to make it all the same.  If someone with great CGI skills simply kept Kenobi better planted, that would almost do it all for me.  But to add to it, if we simply saw different, more OT type fighting from Dooku and from the lesser known characters, that would help.  Cutting Palpatine's jumps also would be a good thing, now that I'm thinking of it.  I know the Yoda fights are not terribly popular, but I don't know if it could be fixed in a respectable manner.  Some edits have removed them, but I've not yet watched them to see how it flows.  It seems like it could be lacking without it.  Perhaps some incredible CGI skills could show only the force fighting and add a couple of things.  I dunno.  Oh!  And one final irritation  about the fighting: during the dumb faceoff pose that Dooku and Anakin give each other, why on earth would they stand a foot apart and both hold their lightsabers behind their backs!?

I encourage you to post your Dagobah comments regardless of others' opinions.  I find your insight valuable and in the end, who cares what everyone else thinks.  But I think it was all meant in good fun anyway, so don't take it too hard as I've mistakenly done before.  Just post away.

Off the top of my head, just from TPM, charging toward Qui-Gon and Maul through the shielded corridor, repeatedly spinning his saber to the side; mimicking Maul's efficient disengagement by doing his own balletic pose just after Qui-Gon was stabbed; earlier he and Qui-Gon followed Maul jumping over a bridge, Qui-Gon simply jumps, Kenobi flips.  I've noticed the pointless spinning many times throughout the PT.  In ROTS, his stance when he says, "I don't think so," as he faces Grievous is just silly.  I'm going a lot from memory and what I've read of others more knowledgeable in sword-fighting, but now that they pointed it out, instead of looking cool, it bugs me a bit.  It looks "cool" in the sense that it's fast and carries a sort of arrogance with it that we Americans are so fond of, but in reality it's just wasted energy.

Harmy said:

There are many here about whom I thought they were native English speakers based on their perfect written English, only to find out later that they weren't, so I thought it would be nice to get to know where everyone was from. I know where many of you live already but it would be nice to get to know about the others as well.

So I put this in my signature and I hope others will follow suit:

 

I'm from Pilsen in the Czech Republic. Where are you from?

 

 

BTW. Check out the video linked under Czech Republic. It's funny as hell, yet quite close to reality :-) Although I myself may be the worst Czech ever, because I don't like beer :-)

Now that I know where you live, I'm gonna do a drive by egging :)

Personally I like it and don't mind the slowness...it doesn't look Lion King-esque to me (where it's obvious it was slowed with some blurring, which isn't really present here).  I think it matches a bit better and I can't wait for the actors to fill in those spots.

Akwat Kbrana made good points.  And your solution InsaneA goes to improve it somewhat, but it still shows that it was a lame excuse for changing the style.  I think many of the flips should be cut out for Dooku.  I wish that they had actually employed how the novels describe Dooku's style (particularly AOTC)--he uses an antiquated form that is extremely energy conservative.  When Anakin charges him the second time when Obi-Wan was defeated, Anakin is keeping up the offensive and seems like he may win the day, but Dooku's fencing style and minimal movement outlasts Anakin's energy wasting style and eventually he wins.  If some scene chopping could yield a Dooku of greater finesse, I know I'd be pleased and would see that as a compromise between trilogies.  I don't know what to do to make Obi-Wan's PT and OT styles more conguent: I know in the ROTS novel he is said to emply a rather straightforward style, again not overly aggressive as Windu claims his to be.  Again, some clipping of the overly acrobatic moves and wasted spins and saber twirling would go a long way in my mind.  But again, accelerating the ANH fight would make it more enjoyable (I always that fight was boring, even as a child and before the PT came out) and in line with his PT style.  Again, Adywan has done this, but it would be interesting if someone else's take on that scene as well.

^ALOL!

Arizona, USA.  Gabby Gifford's district.

Believe me, I love fast paced fighting, and the PT fights are patterned somewhat after real styles.  I like much of it, though like I said, there is a lot of wasted energy on Obi-Wan's part, not to mention the cheesy fights from less athletic actors like McDiarmid and Lee (age of course).  But it's not consistent with the OT in that the reasoning for the style employed there was that though these were energy blades, they were supposed to be hard to wield instead of massless.  The fighting style for the OT is closer to broadsword fighting, and since that established the style and created a different sort of mood when watching the fights, I wish they stuck closer to it, or perhaps showed numerous fighting styles in the PT.  I like what...crap, he's not on page 3...uh, Alenfae (sp?) has done thus far and look forward to seeing the slightly slower style.

I hear you Mr. Insane, though.  My favorite part of Ep I is the Maul fight and wanted to see more of that as well.  So perhaps the best solution would simply be to show multiple styles.

My dream last night was like a horror movie: I hear knocking.  I look towards the sound, and fortunately the door is locked.  But it unlocks!  My heart pounds and I try to run to the door to prop it shut, but I'm frozen in place.  The handle turns and the door presses open.  A blue hand reaches around, a hand with a mouth and a tongue, the most horrific thing I've ever seen.  Suddenly I am freed and I run to the door, slamming it onto the hand and dismembering it!  It falls to the floor, still squirming.  I try to lock the door again, but the severed hand grabs my ankle and I am again immobilized.  Then the door slams open, propelling me back.  The most hideous creature that could barely be called human walks through the door wearing a dirty baseball cap with the word "doubleKO" embroidered on the front, and I realize who has just passed through... THE SCARY DOOR!

Trying to take it up a notch as WD recommended ;)

Shameless plug!  Actually, TMBTM, I'm really interested in your edits.  What a clever way to tell the tale and make them look more uniform.  I think it's a brilliant way to tell the same story...differently.  I'll take a look soon :)

The Guardian--familiar plot, but told quite well.  I really thought Costner performed his role perfectly and Kutcher did a surprisingly good job as Maverick of the 2000s (except he actually learns some humility and teamwork later in the story).  I really enjoyed this film.

Never Been Kissed--I'm a guy willing to watch a chick flick any time my wife asks, and I like quite a few.  This is not one of them.  It's embarrassing moments were humorous, but most of the movie was painful, preachy, typical teen movie crap.  The worst part was knowing her teacher found her attractive though she was his supposedly 17 year old student.  That was certainly AWKward.  Terrible movie.

TV's Frink said:

I didn't get it the first time, but there was no need to repeat the link!

Saw the pic, missed the link.  My bad.

After You Sow--an exciting 12 part nature documentary where you are able to watch grass grow at its natural pace.

The Simpson's Movie 2--A story about the mad Professor Frink, his mother, her boyfriend (a new character named Ender), and the horrific discovery of Professor Frink's even madder long lost brother.

David Bowie's Hair Health Tips

Thanks, DoubleKO.  My good looks and natural charisma have carried this thread longer than yours I'm afraid ;)  I'm just teasing, but if it was unsuccessful, then oh well.  I just like starting about a thread a week.  Trying to make that point as opposed to a thread a day is difficult to do in a question form by the way.  Hopefully this thread lasts a bit, but even if not, now I know why so many people are ready for the trials.

The Argument Clinic, where twooffour obviously spent a great deal of his time sharpening his skills.

While making the OT duels seem a bit more dynamic?  I don't mind the PT duels as much as many on this site do, but they do get pretty silly at times.  I like how Adywan improved the speed of the Kenobi/Vader fight in Revisited.  I think faster OT and slower PT would help it mesh better.  The most ofensive things to me are Ewan McGregor's pointless spins and poses.  Far too often his choreographer had him waste energy and have cool looking and inefficient stances (this coming from a guy with no fencing skills).

A: Yep.

Q: To whom might you be referring?