darth_ender

Well, it is shorter than the Executor, but...thicker.  Personally, if we include it, I think it should be a big ship.  Part of my reason for advocating it at all is because Vader brought the Executor, the Emperor would bring his big bad boy and flaunt his capital ship.  If it's going to be a small ship, I'd honestly rather not include it.

Ron, I'm rereading a lot of the old stuff where we disagreed all the time...funny because now I really look forward to your posts.  No worries about not being able to get to the material just yet.  And just so you know, someone in another forum I'm a part of suggested Magic Bullet Suite trial to me, so maybe you could try that one for your next month and see how that goes.  Thanks for all these mockups.  Obviously we can't use some of the material you provide (like when you splice in material from a low quality source), but what you do give us is a good idea of how such a scene could play out, and therefore we make more informed decisions.  Thanks for doing this.  I really can't wait to see what you've done.

So since the various Bothan ideas (or no Bothans) is up for vote once again, I have a few good reasons to push for my idea (the one I included in the script):

1) It requires the fewest newly filmed material or CGI work (just showing eyes and hands, and perhaps the eyes can be pulled from somewhere else).

2) It fits in well in a midpoint in the script rather than drastically changing the opening, and possibly the nature of the whole film.

3) Possibly one of the best reasons is that it takes place while a Bothan is preparing to dock with a Mon Cal cruiser and shows a shot from the cockpit looking out the canopy.  Well, it just occurred to me that this clip from the end of Star Tours 2 could be slowed down and used to portray this shot, thus saving some work.

I'm thinking these sort of ideas to represent the TIE hangar, but aalenfae pointed out that it would much easier to show an inside-looking-out view.

Too bad no footage of this woman exists:

Apparently something was filmed.  We really need more female and alien alien pilots.

I finally found Xhonzi's post that mentions this thread:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/How-would-you-have-done-ROTJ/topic/10450/

I will link to it in the first post as well.

EDIT: I updated the first post with links to any potential new footage I'd provided before, other threads of interest, and TMBTM's involvement.

darth_ender said:

I know it seems a bit late to be asking this, but what is our source so he knows what colors to match?  I believe we should go with Harmy's Despecialized Edition as he offered.  Obviously we may need to pull bits from other sources, but that should be our primary source and efforts should be made to match.

Is this right, guys?  Should we used the Despecialized Edition, or is there another preferable version for a base?  Hyperspace Edition?  Dark_Jedi's V3?  2004 SE?  2011 BD?

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

Something I realize I forgot to mention earlier was whether it would be easier to show the Interactive Board Game footage of Darth in the Death Star hall or if it was easier to film a guy in a Vader costume and composite him into a Death Star hall.  I personally feel using the old footage sounds simpler; we wouldn't have to find a willing participant, the actor would truly be in the hall and would therefore likely look more realistic, and I don't know where we'd find a good empty Death Star corridor shot to composite the actor into.

So I'm getting ready for the third and final vote, thanks to Johannus.  He was kind enough to gather ideas for me.  This is your last chance for additional idea submissions.

A couple of points I want to make as I prepare for the new vote: I personally really oppose TIE bombers and a forest fire on the Endor surface.  I mean, we do want the good guys to win, after all.  I don't see how it could be a real victory, even if I find the idea extremely fascinating.  How could the Rebels take out the bombers?  I don't think Chewie's AT-ST could shoot down three spaceships.  And in spite of the Rebels' success at taking out the shield generator, so many Ewoks would die to make the ending especially bitter.  I want it to be an uphill battle for the little boogers, but not a sheer cliff.

Again I will mention the Eclipse, as I will include it in this voting round.  It's definitely not necessary, but rather an interesting visual idea.  I don't mind if it gets shot down, but I'm really interested to hear more people's thoughts.

Automatic re-entries for the final vote include: Duel of the Fates motif during parts of the space battle, including the alternate version suggested by MrInsaneA, even including a Bothan scene/any spy scene, and which suggested version, Luke kills/decapitates Boba Fett (expanded idea through Ronster's newest mockup, Anakin showing up at the funeral pyre instead of with Obi-wan and Yoda, an extended Dagobah opening with Yoda giving Luke a green crystal and showing some training, and the title Last of the Jedi.  I'll post the vote in the next day or two, so please provide suggestions if you want one of your ideas that was shot down a second chance or if you have some other new ideas to mention.  It might help to look through the ESB and ROTJ Wishlist thread as well as the How Would You Remake ROTJ thread (which I can't find in spite of OT.com's excellent search function) if you want to seek out new ideas.  Anything that doesn't get used this time around can be put in a new post or thread that compiles all the good ideas for further radicalizing the edit when this first version is completed.

Some more good news: I have been in communication with TMBTM, who has agreed to "try" to colorize the black and white female pilots for our edit (he can't promise success, but I understand that is a big challenge).  It's only a very few seconds, so he will give it a shot.  I know it seems a bit late to be asking this, but what is our source so he knows what colors to match?  I believe we should go with Harmy's Despecialized Edition as he offered.  Obviously we may need to pull bits from other sources, but that should be our primary source and efforts should be made to match.  Thanks so much for helping us out TMBTM!

Finally, here is the best Star Tours footage I have.  It's 4:3, about 20 seconds cruising over the Death Star surface and entering the trench.  I think we could put about 10 of those seconds in the Falcon cockpit window and thereby make an effective additional shot.  I really feel it's worth it, and the quality is decent enough to be useful (might still need a little color correction, but I'll let a pro handle that).

All good stuff D...

About Vader and including the walk down the hall... I have actually realised it is better to not show him walking down the hall at all before the deleted scene and contacting luke via the force or telepathy because he gets in a lift and then all of a sudden he is in his chamber... Better to re-use the shot from ESB where his chamber opens just saying what I have come up with... Use any walks down the hall... later on for Jejerod or whatever else you may come up with..

Interesting and potentially better...Please show what you have as soon as possible because you may be right.  As always, my big concern is that it's obviously reused, but it's so similar that if it's done well, it wouldn't be obvious.

To show ties launching from DSII we could show the interior docking bay in 1 shot  (CGI) then use the shot of Vader leaving with 2 ties from ANH Yavin but mask Vaders Tie-Fighter out perhaps..

Again, that might be a solution, but it seems better just to show a larger hangar and more TIEs hanging there.  It was your suggestion, and I think we should see the racks that the TIEs hang on if we're going to bother showing the launch at all.

I will do this shot of the falcon cockpit today and an x-wing cockpit shot too... I will also try to colour correct star tours footage myself also.

So here goes nothing...

Excited to see this.  Good luck.

JLB_Tosche said:

There's talk going on of including the Eclipse? Sounds interesting and potentially difficult, you probably want to avoid it ending up with some one-upping game going on: You think a Star Destroyer's big? Look at my Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Check out this Eclipse class Super Star Destroyer! You think that's big? Have a look at our Second Death Star!
Perhaps it could be used as the Emperor's transport to the Death Star, have it dock and not mentioned. Or, use it for the Emperor's throne room scenes. 

Actually, that pretty much exactly what we have in mind, except it will not dock, but will simply leave afterwards.  And that's not even final yet.  It could just as easily end up left out.  It will serve no other purpose, as it really can be an over-the-top ship.  I personally just like the look of it, and since Vader is arriving in the Executor in this version, I thought, "What would the Emperor come in?"

Johannus said:

There are a few things I would like to add to the vote if I may.  Firstly I would like to push once more for the Bothan scene as I (very crudely) mocked up because I didn't really get much feedback on that.  I know it is possibly the most extravegant version suggested but I feel it would really set this apart from other edits. 

Also I would like to push for the idea of making Jabba's palace seedier.  I'm open to ideas on how but someone suggested using clips of other dancers and editing them in.  If we do then I would like to suggest using a redheaded girl which could then be Mara Jade (one of the only ideas from the EU that I like).  To anyone who doesn't like the EU it would just be a redheaded girl, and she wouldn't pop up again but to anyone who likes Mara Jade it could be Mara Jade.  Much in the same way as the Eclipse would be just another ship in the context of this film. 

I would also like to see a second sail barge added as per the original concept art.  I made a mock up of this ages ago and put forward an idea of how it could be dealt with but I am not at my computer at the moment so I will have to expand on this later.  Basically it wouldn't interfere with the story, but visually it would make Luke's survival and victory seem much more unlikely and thus impressive. 

I would also like to see more alien species mixed into the background as a part of the rebel forces on Endor (such as Wookiee commandos).  This would probably only be possible by shooting new footage, so I don't know if you would want to include this in the vote or not as we are uncertain on how practical that will be, but the idea is there if you would like to. 

Thats all I can think of at the moment but just wanted to get them down here before all the voting options are gathered for the final vote.  I wander though whether it would be worth holding off on this final vote for a touch longer until we have further discussed some of the more divided issues such as the Bothan scene, and some of the newer ideas like making Jabba's palace darker. 

 

I will add them to the vote.  While I like the idea of a more diverse group at Endor, I think that would be an especially difficult task to pull off, since they would probably need to be composited into some existing footage, which would be especially difficult to pull off realistically.

I think Jabba's Palace would be easier to pull off because a couple of new shots replacing the SE shots could go a long way in improving the nature and feel of the throne room/brothel.  Mara Jade is especially interesting to me.

I can include a second sail barge, but I honestly don't think that would be necessary, or again very easy.  Putting the barge in place seems quite workable, but then people aboard it would also be firing at the company and trying to prevent the group's escape.  I don't see how we could use existing footage to make that work.

The vote will include all Bothan options mentioned, including their removal.  Everyone can only vote for one option.  And I can wait on the vote for a few more days, but at the same time the vote can prompt discussion of the merits of each suggested idea.

MrInsaneA, I'm glad you like the script as it currently is.  I actually hope very little changes with it because I really like how it has turned out thus far as well.  But I don't think the changes up for vote will make any big difference anyway, mostly just some minor visuals.  But we can submit it as a voting item as well.

I think this is a great thread, and I don't think it applies just to the PT.  It's a focused idea.

Something I realize I forgot to mention earlier was whether it would be easier to show the Interactive Board Game footage of Darth in the Death Star hall or if it was easier to film a guy in a Vader costume and composite him into a Death Star hall.  I personally feel using the old footage sounds simpler; we wouldn't have to find a willing participant, the actor would truly be in the hall and would therefore likely look more realistic, and I don't know where we'd find a good empty Death Star corridor shot to composite the actor into.

So I'm getting ready for the third and final vote, thanks to Johannus.  He was kind enough to gather ideas for me.  This is your last chance for additional idea submissions.

A couple of points I want to make as I prepare for the new vote: I personally really oppose TIE bombers and a forest fire on the Endor surface.  I mean, we do want the good guys to win, after all.  I don't see how it could be a real victory, even if I find the idea extremely fascinating.  How could the Rebels take out the bombers?  I don't think Chewie's AT-ST could shoot down three spaceships.  And in spite of the Rebels' success at taking out the shield generator, so many Ewoks would die to make the ending especially bitter.  I want it to be an uphill battle for the little boogers, but not a sheer cliff.

Again I will mention the Eclipse, as I will include it in this voting round.  It's definitely not necessary, but rather an interesting visual idea.  I don't mind if it gets shot down, but I'm really interested to hear more people's thoughts.

Automatic re-entries for the final vote include: Duel of the Fates motif during parts of the space battle, including the alternate version suggested by MrInsaneA, even including a Bothan scene/any spy scene, and which suggested version, Luke kills/decapitates Boba Fett (expanded idea through Ronster's newest mockup, Anakin showing up at the funeral pyre instead of with Obi-wan and Yoda, an extended Dagobah opening with Yoda giving Luke a green crystal and showing some training, and the title Last of the Jedi.  I'll post the vote in the next day or two, so please provide suggestions if you want one of your ideas that was shot down a second chance or if you have some other new ideas to mention.  It might help to look through the ESB and ROTJ Wishlist thread as well as the How Would You Remake ROTJ thread (which I can't find in spite of OT.com's excellent search function) if you want to seek out new ideas.  Anything that doesn't get used this time around can be put in a new post or thread that compiles all the good ideas for further radicalizing the edit when this first version is completed.

Some more good news: I have been in communication with TMBTM, who has agreed to "try" to colorize the black and white female pilots for our edit (he can't promise success, but I understand that is a big challenge).  It's only a very few seconds, so he will give it a shot.  I know it seems a bit late to be asking this, but what is our source so he knows what colors to match?  I believe we should go with Harmy's Despecialized Edition as he offered.  Obviously we may need to pull bits from other sources, but that should be our primary source and efforts should be made to match.  Thanks so much for helping us out TMBTM!

Finally, here is the best Star Tours footage I have.  It's 4:3, about 20 seconds cruising over the Death Star surface and entering the trench.  I think we could put about 10 of those seconds in the Falcon cockpit window and thereby make an effective additional shot.  I really feel it's worth it, and the quality is decent enough to be useful (might still need a little color correction, but I'll let a pro handle that).

DominicCobb said:

darth_ender said:

emanswfan said:

So maybe Coruscant was meant to be in ROTJ:

 http://www.starwars.com/watch/gwl_3d_conversation_part2.html

 

Thought you might find this interesting...Coruscant was called Had Abbadon.

 

STAR WARS – EPISODE VI : “REVENGE OF THE JEDI”
Written by GEORGE LUCAS
REVISED ROUGH DRAFT
June 12, 1981

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…

1. SPACE

The boundless heavens serve as a backdrop for the MAIN TITLE. A ROLL-UP crawls into infinity.

The Rebellion is doomed. Spies loyal
to the Old Republic have reported
several new armored space stations
under construction by the Empire.

A desperate plan to attack the
Dreaded Imperial capitol of
Had Abbadon and destroy the Death
Stars before they are completed has
been put into effect.

Rebel commandos, led by Princess Leia,
have made their way into the very
heart of the Galactic Empire: as the
first step toward the final battle
for freedom….

Pan down to reveal the planet HAD ABBADON, capitol of the Galactic Empire. The gray planet’s surface is completely covered with cities and is shrouded in a sickly brown haze. Orbiting the polluted planet is a small, green, moon, a sparkling contrast to the foreboding sphere beyond.

 

If you're bring up the old idea of the St. Petersburg/Leningrad-esque renaming of Coruscant, I would say I like it; but, honestly:

1. Why change it to Had Abbadon? Not Palpsville?

2. There is no in movie explanation, thus, audience confusion.

3. Coruscant sounds cooler. Probably the reason why Lucas used it for the PT.

Allow me to clarify...this is from an early draft for ROTJ.  I didn't write this; George Lucas and whatever help he may have had did.  Emanswfan suggested that perhaps Coruscant was originally going to be in the OT based on the video he linked.  I let him know that indeed it was originally going to be included, but was written out in later drafts.  Its name at the time was Had Abbadon.  It was changed to Coruscant in response to the extensive EU material out there, particularly the Thrawn Trilogy which first named the planet Coruscant.  I feel largely content with how our script currently stands.

Ovan Marekal said:

Been working on the Lost Rebels footage; we thinking of throwing the Mon Calamari fighter in? Think it'd work a bit better than Nien Nunb, Jr., and the voice is a little clearer... plus, we could work in a joke line or two. ;-)

 

"All this technology and no men's room!"

*explodes*

:-D

 

 

I actually included both in the script, and I like how I used them.  However, they will likely be dubbed, so truthfully their presently spoken lines aren't that important.  However, those jokes are indeed quite funny and maybe we'll find a use for them somewhere :)

That's just terrible and hilarious at the same time! :D

Ronster said:

emanswfan said:

So maybe Coruscant was meant to be in ROTJ:

 http://www.starwars.com/watch/gwl_3d_conversation_part2.html

Stay on Target....

I have done some mock-uips of the emeror leaving coruscant and I ditched the idea because It adds nothing to the story whatsoever although you are correct Ralph Mcquarrie's concepts were never visualised in ROTJ and this is why I wanted to acknowledge this and give a nod to Ralph(not the PT)... The problem I have had is doing 2 big reveals with the executor so I have chosen to stick with the executor approaching the DSII only... But if I do find the time to finish this then you will not see the executor only the emporer on a shuttle... This may actually work better....I have given myself the answer to my own problem :D so I will try to complete this... Thankyou for the inspiration emanswfan

I have completley underestimated how much still needed to be done on the whole begining portion up until the briefing to satisfy myself and hopefully others also to show a new way ROTJ could be put together while re-organising it's structure without losing anything of significance and expanding the plot.....

I have accomplished it all bar 1 shot for Vaders star destroyer in my new opening mock-up and the tribal drumming in the rancors lair.... Some of it has really made me giggle at it's crudeness... So I may aswell throw in the emperor leaving coruscant with my last day of my free trial of CS5

Some clips will definatley be up here at some point tomorrow so stay tuned...

I know I won't be winning any oscars for my efforts but It nice to be nearing the end of this journey It's been an awful lot of hard work... But I would like to thank many of you for the inspiration and remember inspire and be inspired

You know, Ronster, your efforts are truly inspiring, even the things we don't use.  You've done great work in spite of the crudeness.  I can't wait to see what you do have, and it would be fun to see the Eclipse, I have to be honest.  Can't wait till it's posted :)

emanswfan said:

So maybe Coruscant was meant to be in ROTJ:

 http://www.starwars.com/watch/gwl_3d_conversation_part2.html

Thought you might find this interesting...Coruscant was called Had Abbadon.

STAR WARS – EPISODE VI : “REVENGE OF THE JEDI”
Written by GEORGE LUCAS
REVISED ROUGH DRAFT
June 12, 1981

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…

1. SPACE

The boundless heavens serve as a backdrop for the MAIN TITLE. A ROLL-UP crawls into infinity.

The Rebellion is doomed. Spies loyal
to the Old Republic have reported
several new armored space stations
under construction by the Empire.

A desperate plan to attack the
Dreaded Imperial capitol of
Had Abbadon and destroy the Death
Stars before they are completed has
been put into effect.

Rebel commandos, led by Princess Leia,
have made their way into the very
heart of the Galactic Empire: as the
first step toward the final battle
for freedom….

Pan down to reveal the planet HAD ABBADON, capitol of the Galactic Empire. The gray planet’s surface is completely covered with cities and is shrouded in a sickly brown haze. Orbiting the polluted planet is a small, green, moon, a sparkling contrast to the foreboding sphere beyond.

Sorry, wrote that last bit in a hurry and I worry it sounded rude.  I'm glad you liked the script.  I think it can make for a really great film.  The Bothan part is probably going to be all or nothing.  The reason for omitting the mention of Sullust is actually because I want the Emperor's revelation to Luke that he allowed the Rebels to get the plans to be more of a surprise for the audience as well.  And Sullust is mentioned by name in the opening crawl in this case :)  Thanks for taking the time to read it.

Well, I actually meant that we will probably go with the inclusion of both or neither, but it's not yet decided.

So I am giving up on color-correcting Star Tours.  That doesn't mean I don't think we should use it, but rather that I don't think I can fix it.  I will make everything I've gathered available soon so someone else can try it.  I did find the B-roll clip (this is it on YouTube) in better quality, and I believe it may be enough to suit our needs and slightly expand our footage, simply showing a couple of seconds from the Millennium Falcon's cockpit window cruising over the Death Star surface, as Ronster suggested.  But if anyone wants to do anything further or preserve the whole thing, I will provide everything I have for your color-correcting pleasure...tomorrow, probably.

Also, Johannus was kind enough to gather items for the third and final vote for me.  I will be arranging these soon and will post our third and final round very soon.  Thanks so much for the help, Johannus!

I like it either way!

Yes, I didn't even think of using the costumes in this way, but it's perfect and meshes with our script!

Davnes007 said:

This is a new low.

Said the only guy with a pornographic profile...;)

19 years and a couple of months...sounds like a good life for a dog.  Sorry about your loss.