darth_ender

ray_afraid said:

ORIGINAL POST RETRACTED

-I really shouldn't click on these kinds of topics. Anytime someone opens with "here's my stance and you can't change it because I believe in God and therefore I'm right and you are wrong." I know I should just shrug and walk away...

 Yeah, that's clearly what I had intended.  Since you've read all my political posts, you know that I've taken the stance that "I believe in God, therefore I'm right" on virtually every issue.  I'm inflexible and intolerant of other viewpoints.  Thanks for stereotyping someone for feeling strongly about an issue, even if religion does play an important role in my view.  I love how so many lefties claim that the right is the side with the negative stereotypes.  Sheesh!

A: By being jealous of our worship of false gods, not just idols, but idolized objects and people.

Q: What does God need with a starship?

Today is the last day to vote!!!  I will update the script after today and will hopefully hand out assignments.  I like a lot of these suggestions that have come up since, but any changes to the script in the future will have to rely completely on me...we can't vote on every detail.  It takes just too long.

Hopefully we can make most of this work.  I want it to be clear, we can't promise to deliver on everything, but the editors will do their best, I'm sure.  I still wish I had more talent for this sort of thing because I'd want to help out as much as possible.

I also want to be clear, we should not set a definite time frame.  We've made several ambitious votes, and even with several people, it could take years to get it done.  I sure hope it's not more than two, but who knows.

In any case, after update the script, I am going to ask the editing team to decide which aspects they would be willing to work on throughout the project.  That way, I can hopefully divvy up the work load and assign a particular task to them.  I really believe and hope we can do most of this.

And hopefully I'm successful in fading into the background, somewhat.  I've limited contact much more lately, and I intend to do even more once assignments are made.

DuracellEnergizer said:

I've also got a question - one that may also have already been answered here. What is the LDS' position on the theory of evolution?

Let me give you a starting point on research:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Evolution

The official Church position is actually relatively neutral.  Leaders have spoken against it, but a few have also showed some openness to the idea.  More recently they simply say it is not of particular theological concern (a pretty safe statement).  You will find that most members do not believe in it and hold that it is against Church doctrine.  I hold a somewhat ambiguous view, understanding that it is not actually Church doctrine not to believe it, understanding that there are issues that may seem irreconcilable, but believing that all things truly are compatible in the end.  That probably didn't make much sense.  Let me put it this way: I do believe Adam and Eve were the first man and woman God created.  Were they a product of evolution, or were they made "from scratch" with similar traits to existing creatures?  I'm not certain, and I don't feel it's terribly important.  If I'm answering a test in Biology 101, I don't feel any guilt providing answers that support the evolution of man.  But when I'm teaching Sunday school (which I do, to the majority of the adults in my congregation, incidentally), I teach that Adam was the first man with no dissonance.  Make sense?

georgec said:

This might have been discussed before, but how do you feel about South Park's lampooning of Mormonism and their broadway play, The Book of Mormon?

I feel it's disrespectful and mischaracterizes our church and history, but whatever.  It's not like it's anything new.  Besides, we actually enjoy turning it to our fun advantage now and then.

http://www.myspace.com/video/lord-of-chaos/mormons-the-correct-answer/2373188

I really like that idea, Bingo.  I think what some people really find lacking in ROTJ is tension.  Something like that would certainly add to the peril of Lando and his crew, as well as the Falcon.  Good call.

No worries.  I'm always happy to answer questions, and we did get a little...off topic during the course of that discussion.  Please read those posts and links, and if you have more questions, I'd be glad to help :)

DominicCobb said:

Warbler said:

Darth_ender, would please explain the idea of baptism by proxy and and the idea of doing so to someone already dead?  and why someone decided to do this to Anne Frank? 

...nine times.

Hold your horses everyone, I do have a life besides this forum, though I spend too much time here.  I think it was already brought up a few pages back...

...Ah, yes, here it is:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Ask-the-member-of-the-Church-of-Jesus-Christ-of-Latter-day-Saints-AKA-Interrogate-the-Mormon/post/547084/#TopicPost547084

Boy, those were the days!  But to add to the discussion, we believe that we are doing a favor for our ancestors when we are baptized for them.  If they choose not to accept it, they are not obliged to do so at all.  Work for the dead is frequently performed more than once due to different people submitting their researched genealogical names, often with alternate spellings, discrepant birth dates, etc.  Here is the Church's official word on the matter:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/violations-of-proxy-baptism-policy

Wikipedia is also somewhat enlightening, in its usual level of Wikipedia imperfection:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead

If you read, you will also see that Adolf Hitler had a baptism performed on his behalf.  Are we trying to get Hitler into heaven?  Of course not.  In fact it is Church policy to not perform work for known murderers.  But it is an imperfect system, and it's possible other inappropriate baptisms will take place.  Just know that no offense is ever intended, and all efforts have been made to rectify the situation for the offended. 

greenpenguino said:

Darth_ender, what's the secret password to get into heaven?

Actually, The Boost just said it.  It was encoded in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.  See you there!

Ronster said:

So I am going to start assembling what I have put together into the proposed extended sequence if this remotly exites anybody....

Basically the main reason for doing this is because it's too easy in the original ROTJ they just fly into the deathstar II without any losses (oh sorry 1 x-wing) and blow it up... So it's only there to wrap up the end and not so much as another hurdle they must overcome once the shield is down.

Unlike a new hope where it was portrayed as a hulking battlestation with guns all over it and tie fighters flying about... The new one even though it's bigger and probably has alot more guns and definatly there is alot more tie fighters there is not even a shadow on it's predesessor in terms of what it takes to even get to the port.

There is no sense of struggle

Thats what is missing and it's bugging me after doing my cut and theres not even enough fighters flying in to even possibly contemplate the chances of success. It's the equivalent of an aircraft carrier vs 4 jet ski's in the original.

I hope to change that in my rough mock-up unprofessional crap way of doing things just to excite you all a bit more.

wait a minute where did the CGI team go?

Well, I know they're quite busy, and Angel has let me know that he will not be participating for a while, but I believe he wants to jump back on board at a later time.

People are busy, but I believe most of them are excited to work on the project when time allows.  I think when we have a completed script, people will be more ready to get involved.

I do agree, there should be more of a struggle as they're flying into the core, i.e. more collisions.  I already wrote more fighting above the DSII surface.

Gosh, Bingo, you never do anything small!  Can't you just eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and report, "Ate a PBJ.  Good food."?  You always have to be so darn poetic ;)

Bingowings said:

I prefer to think of all the Rebel fighter ships as being pretty much as old as each other.

I've never bought into EU idea that the A-Wings were new.

I think it's more a matter of the Alliance growing as the Empire became more oppressive and the news of the Rebel's victory in the first film got passed around.

That would mean as more people joined they brought their own old ships with them (which would be pimped up by Rebel technicians).

The fleet massing for one last push would mean assets that had never been brought together before would come into play.

So Y-Wings would be the bombers of one group and B-Wings may be the bombers/big guns of another, possibly later recruited, wing of the Alliance.

It might be nice to see the fleet as seen at the end of ESB with a few more ships being joined by smaller fleets from multiple directions to form a larger armada before the briefing.

As it jumps to Hyperspace a few more ships could be added too to make it look like stragglers were turning up from all over the place.

You could even have a few ships jump into the battle after it had already started (possibly a few ancient grubby Separatists ships from the PT redeeming the Neimoideans to some extent).  

I like all the thoughts of this quote, but I especially like the bolded portion.  That could be fun.

Thanks for all the hard work.  It looks amazing to my untrained eyes, but if Adywan can even give it a thumbs up, then I'm really excited.

You've done well, Lord DJ, and now I sense you wish to continue your search for other exciting projects.

I once found this picture from Empire at War which I think generally captures what I would hope for in the attack on the Executor.  Ackbar orders the concentrated fire; several capital ships begin converging, and I think most of them should actually take up positions astride the Executor; Home One is not excluded from the battle (and in this picture, I imagine Home One as the larger cruiser, as it was intended to be a larger ship in spite of EU "canonical" descriptions); several fighters are shown swarming the massive ship, including B-wings and Y-wings unleashing their heavy ordnance (yes, Y-wings were the original bombers, which were then being fazed out by the B-wings); two A-wings manage to take out the shield generator; etc.  I really think we need to see some big ship-to-ship fighting, as well as the smaller fighters harassing and damaging what they can.  We voted in the first round to have a Y-wing bomb the Executor (something I forgot to include in the script), and I think the B-wings should do the same.  This could explain their weakened status and why the A-wings managed to get close enough and provide enough fire power to take out the generator.

Oh, I just found this picture.  It captures the broadside firing I imagine of the capital ships.

timdiggerm said:

Don't you mean generally frievious post?

Oh, did my wording bear a resemblance there?  Gee, I didn't realize someone might misconstrue my typing for a play on some other word  ;)

I'm pretty sure he is watching everything we do.  I mean, think about it!  He made incredible movies, then has repeatedly made efforts to screw them up...and people still like them!!!  It's clearly because he is controlling our brains via the colored patterns transmitted through the screens to our eyes.  Subliminal messages tell us to purchase more Star Wars products even though they are of inferior quality!  This explains why he's messed with the colors of the films...it matches his brain-manipulation.  He's simply toying with us, and in the next decade, after gaining control of the White House (probably prior to his coup against the UN General Secretary), he will release Star Wars in a holographic format, only they will simply be flashing colored lights!!!  But the masses will be so brainwashed by this point that they will surrender their wallets and their lives to join the Lucas Royal Guards.  This site is our last bastion of hope!!!

"So this is how freedom dies...with thunderous applause."

OH NO!  I QUOTED THE PT!! IT'S HAPPENING TO ME!!!  PRETEND I DIDN'T SAY THAT!!!!!!

Sorry folks for the generally frivolous post...I don't know what came over me.

I know you're busy, but I'd love an update on the various preservation projects; that page is quite out of date and a lot has happened, and I've always wanted to read the various advantages and disadvantages of different ongoing projects...but only when you've got the time :)

I hope for more B-wings, though I don't know if I'd include them in that particular shot.  I imagine a very grand attack just on the Executor, and perhaps in some of the other shots we could see the B-wings attacking.  Your work may be pretty rough, but it looks fun and pretty good, Johannus.

PS I am certain some who wanted to vote have not taken the opportunity to do so at the new link, though I think they probably did use the old one (Ronster, that means you).  Please don't forget to vote using the new link.

These are the folks who are invited to vote; in bold are those who voted using the right link:

darth_ender

MrInsaneA

Ronster

DominicCobb

timdiggerm

ray_afraid

Harmy

Angel

ShepardCommander

fishmanlee

TV’s Frink

xhonzi

Bingowings

Jaitea

Sluggo

Ovan Marekal

Vladius

Captain Antilles

regularjoe

JLB_Tosche

GoodMusician

aalenfae

Johannus

emanswfan

Mrebo

XyZ

jonathan7

Wexter

ben_danger

SS4DarthPayne

daneditor

If your name isn't on this list but you voted, it probably means you used the wrong link.  Please use the correct one provided in the second PM you all received.  If you don't think you got it, let me know and I'll PM you the correct one.

I'm missing a lot of the fun here lately.  As for Anakin, I honestly care somewhat less about whether it's Hayden or Sebastian.

Truly, I wonder what people think about the placing of Anakin's ghost at the end.  If we put the funeral at the end but intend to show any ghosts at all, it truly only makes sense to put Anakin at the end.  Of all the radical ideas people have supported, I don't think this is so radical at all.  It's logical and moving, IMO.  We already voted to put the funeral at the end, so why not include the ghost with it?  Maybe there is some merit of Bingowings' suggestion about an older Anakin morphing into a younger, but it's still not purely logical to me.

Please watch my rough cut including the scene to see what I mean.

http://www.4shared.com/video/DzIYUfHk/rotj_ideal_ending.html?

I also want to comment on Johannus's video: very interesting, and it captures the tension of men who know they are about to die.  I'm a bit iffy about the Mon Cal cruiser actually getting sliced by the laser, but overall the whole thing is a good rough cut.

I know, I thought that was a bit unnecessary.  I hope it was the Womandalorians...

Not necessarily.  The votes aren't over, and it's actually pretty close at this point.  But if it doesn't go my way, I'd want a remix as well ;)

DominicCobb said:

 

1. "Seb Shaw because that's how the original was," this is a fan edit, by nature things will be changed. How things were originally should have no bearing on the decision.

2. "I hate Hayden and the prequels," this is probably the main reason why people don't like the addition of Hayden, but I think it's stupid. To hate a 5 second shot because it reminds you of something you hate is just dumb to me. The shot of ghost Hayden is not the prequels, it's just a shot of ghost Hayden.

 

3. "The audience/Luke would be confused," this is incorrect. The confusion factor would be the same for both Hayden and Shaw. Like I said before, in none of the SW movies does Anakin look like Shaw. In AOTC and ROTS, Anakin looks like Hayden. So for those who have seen the prequels, there would be no confusion. For those that haven't, seeing Hayden would be just as confusing as seeing Shaw, which is to say, not confusing at all. It is VERY easy to infer who ghost Anakin is supposed to be, especially the ghost were to be placed at the funeral pyre instead.

Well, in my case, this is not why I prefer Sebastian Shaw.  I actually enjoy the prequels, though not to the extent of the OT, which were clearly superior films.  My reasons are more along the lines of:

1. Anakin died a redeemed man.  His good self was his final self.  Older actors never look like their younger selves, so that doesn't bother me.  It simply makes sense that the final good Anakin is who we see.

2. As an example, we see a 900 year old Yoda and an elderly Alec Guiness as Force ghosts.  If there is vanity in the next life in the Star Wars universe, I imagine they'd want to be their younger selves just as much as Anakin would.  But they remain the older guys.

3. I'm not worried about audience confusion so much as I worry about Luke's confusion.  "Who was that guy?  He looks nothing like the guy I saw under the mask!"  It's true that Luke would probably figure it out better at the pyre, but you get my drift.  Luke saw an older Anakin and would recognize him.  HISHE kind of catches the gist of what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdukWtJwlPU.

4. I do think how it originally was should have some bearing, though it shouldn't be the only factor.  Nevertheless, I do feel it's more respectful for the original actor

With all that, I think aalenfae suggested a compromise long ago in showing an older Hayden.  This would be a potential compromise for me.  Also, it's not even the end of the world for me if young Hayden were the final ghost.  But to me it is far more logical to show Sebastian.

And I see your point about showing no Anakin at all.  It may not be theologically sound to show a man who lived most of his life in evil as being redeemed.  But it is just a film, and at the very end of the film we need some happy closure, I feel.  And like you said in your final sentence, if he disappears in the end, it could signify that he had a better fate than he would have had, but that he still doesn't get to remain among the living (and it does seem like his eternal fate isn't as great as it would have been when his ghost is at the pyre instead).  I would be interested in seeing an ending completely without Anakin's ghost, but I'm pretty sure I'd prefer to see some sort of redemption.

Thanks for voting, all those who have so far.

So I quickly slapped together a bit of footage to illustrate how I think our ROTJ edit should end.  I want to make sure everyone can visualize what I am imagining, because I think it is quite moving.

http://www.4shared.com/video/DzIYUfHk/ROTJ_ideal_ending.html

timdiggerm said:

Any idea why we can't see all three ghosts at the pyre? Luke sees the first two ghosts, lights the pyre, Anakin appears, they have their private Jedi Funeral.

That is something worth considering.  I wish I thought to include that in the vote.

I just want to make a point here.  We have already voted to put the funeral pyre last.  This means that Ben and Yoda (and possibly Anakin) will be seen before that, rather than after (or perhaps we'll just have to cut that part, but hear me out).  I really feel pretty strongly that if we want to see the Force ghosts, part of the conclusion would involve putting Anakin at the pyre scene.  The reason for this is because it leaves Luke ready for closure.  If he sees the ghosts including his father, then burns his father's armor and/or body, it seems like he's already had the closure and the scene is redundant.  If we simply show Ben and Yoda, he feels some closure but still feels some emotional weight.  But at the fire when he sees his father, he and the audience feel satisfied.  That's the way I see things, and I want to put in that plug before the voting gets too far along.