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darth_ender

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Join date
26-Apr-2011
Last activity
13-Jul-2025
Posts
8,815

Post History

Post
#608994
Topic
How many People have signed the petition and should we post the petition on Social Media sites(Twitter,Google+, etc)?
Time

pat man said:

darth_ender said:

 It'd be really nice to know the names and locations of everyone who signed it since the last update. Next time can you please provide us with this information? And if they had any special comments, that could be handy as well.

   6,036 :)

http://originaltrilogy.com/petition/signatures.cfm/page/1/

The link to the petition, of every thing you asked for.

 

Thanks for the link, but I thought the point of this threat was so I didn't have to go to the petition itself to learn all this information.

Post
#608941
Topic
Info Wanted: anyone done a TPM and AOTC colour correction?
Time

Fang Zei said:

That dvdactive article keeps saying "in the digital and dvd versions" for several of those comparisons...

Yeah, this was my reason for suspecting that perhaps the VHS was different.  However I remembered that my parents own the VHS, and since they don't live too far away I borrowed it from them today.  Sadly, it looks like the same as the DVD version :(

Post
#608611
Topic
The thread where we make enemies out of friends, aka the abortion debate thread
Time

^Nice to see you knowledge of the Bible coming out :)  Reading your old posts prior to your "conversion," it's fascinating to see how knowledgeable you are about biblical topics.

I do wish to address the Exodus 21 bit, which I'd considered yesterday as well, but again, time is short.  I actually found a site with a number of supposed arguments for abortion in the Bible...most of which are weak, but there are some worth discussion, including the verses you mentioned.  Again, too busy to go into any depth right now.

Post
#608449
Topic
The thread where we make enemies out of friends, aka the abortion debate thread
Time

To the Nazis, killing Jews wasn't murder. Behind closed doors, yes, but still legal in those instances. Many German citizens turned in their Jewish neighbors and those who aided them, often with the knowledge of the likely consequences. Perhaps a German civilian wouldn't get away with flat out killing a Jewish man (though I'm not certain, I kinda doubt any officials would have stopped him), it was legal in the various prison camps and ghettos. If a Nazi soldier didn't like a particular Jew for no reason and shot him, no action would be taken against him.

Of course such were crimes against humanity. But they were legal, at least in certain circumstances. And if in its purest form murder means unlawful killing, then according to German law, the Jews were not murdered. Of course, to the most of the rest of the world, they were.

But this is why the abortion argument is such a difficult one: if we really wanted to get into the nitty gritty subjectivity of morals debate again, many consider abortion to be a crime against humanity too. There are valid arguments supporting that belief, even if many ultimately disagree. To them it could be argued that it is murder, even if it is legal.

This is from Wikipedia, detailing the essential ingredients to murder:<br />

1. Unlawful
2. killing
3. of a human
4. by another human
5. with malice aforethought

According to CP3S, abortion is not murder because of #1. While that is technically true, I find it unlawful according to a different set of laws. Just as it was legal to kill Jews in the Third Reich, the rest of the world didn't see it that way and viewed it as murder. In the U.S. abortion is legal. However, much of the world sees it as unlawful, whether it be according to God's law, or even the actual written laws of several countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law ). Are we judging murder by the host country's laws, or by the laws of those who judge that country? Could the Irish or Chileans justifiably say that Americans are committing murder, just as we said of Germany? Just because we don't see it as a crime against humanity doesn't mean they are obliged to agree.

But I personally do not see abortion as murder, though my reasoning is based on #5. I do not believe most who abort their children are doing so with any intent to harm a living person. Nevertheless, I believe it to be utterly wrong in the vast majority of cases.

Out of interest, this article discussing the responsibility of the German people with regards to the Holocaust is an worthwhile read on the topic, presenting opinions for and against the responsibility of the German public.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Holocaust#The_German_people

(Sorry for posting the long links like this--trouble hyperlinking right now)

Post
#608431
Topic
The thread where we make enemies out of friends, aka the abortion debate thread
Time

walkingdork said:

darth_ender said:

Well, much as I enjoy this debate, I don't think I'm going to argue with you if you think that a perfectly fair analogy is crazy without providing any rational reason.  You don't have to like it, but both were/are legal, and yet some people saw/see such as acceptable while others saw/see such as unacceptable.  Nothing crazy about that.  But I think I'm done defending definitions since I feel like I am continually taken out of context (not just by you, mind you).

Comparing the legality of abortion to the legality of genocide during Nazi Germany is the dumbest fucking idea I have ever heard of. So no, I will not be offering much "rational reason" for saying an analogy is crazy.

It is because of this statement that I am sure you don't understand what I'm talking about.

I am not equating the two at all, except in the misuse of the word 'murder'.  I am not calling abortion doctors Hitlers and Himmlers.  I am not calling women who get abortions genocidal or even infanticidal.  I am not declaring that the 40 million annual pre-birth killings are the same as the 6 million WWII Jewish killings.  I am simply saying that C3PS said abortion cannot be murder because murder is, by definition, killing illegally.  In Nazi Germany, killing Jews was not illegal killing, and therefore was not murder, according to the official definition (at least not illegal in Nazi Germany).  To Warbler's (and my) sentiments, killing someone can still be morally wrong, even if it is not illegal.  Therefore, according to Warbler's definition, just because abortions are legal, that doesn't make them morally right.  Much of this country and the world agrees with him.  Even more of the country and world would agree that just because killing Jews in Germany was legal, it wasn't right.

We are not saying they are the same!  We are not comparing the nature of the acts.  We are merely pointing out that just because it is legal doesn't mean that it is right.  Don't get so caught up in the popular "Oh, someone compared something to Nazis so I won't even consider the nature of the argument" fad.  We are not comparing anyone to Nazis.  We are drawing a rather tangential parallel.

Post
#608404
Topic
The thread where we make enemies out of friends, aka the abortion debate thread
Time

Well, much as I enjoy this debate, I don't think I'm going to argue with you if you think that a perfectly fair analogy is crazy without providing any rational reason.  You don't have to like it, but both were/are legal, and yet some people saw/see such as acceptable while others saw/see such as unacceptable.  Nothing crazy about that.  But I think I'm done defending definitions since I feel like I am continually taken out of context (not just by you, mind you).

Sorry if I'm coming off as snotty.  Not my intention.

EDIT: As for the Bible, I'm not sure if you mean in reference to abortions or just using the term at all.  Frankly, I'm not sure...but searching on the BibleGateway, it appears that the term murderer is used a few times in the KJV, but not just plain murder.  As for the NIV, it gets a bit more usage as both murderer and murder.

Now doing a little research and wasting valuable study time yields some interesting biblical arguments regarding abortion.  One site gave some extremely bizarre and stretched interpretations justifying abortion from the Bible.  Only a few citations could be considered truly worthy of further examination and rebuttal.  However, several other citations support the notion of preserving life.  I'd be interested in discussing that topic further, but I can't get on this site anymore today--too much to do.

Post
#608398
Topic
Let's all say something nice about George Lucas. No insults allowed.
Time

grnpnguino said:

Hoth-Nudi$t $aid:

¢ongrat$ on the $a£ and r£inqui$hmnt of $W, £u¢a$!  Who $ay$ ¥our ida$ are worth£$$ and ¥ou'v £o$t ¥our tou¢h to mak€ rationa£ de¢i$ion$?!  I kn¥ou'd mak a qua£it¥ ¢ontribution to th $aga on of th$ da¥$!  :)

fixd

Fixed some more.