That was assisting our preferred side in fighting a civil war, not crushing a government's own efforts at reform.
I thought it was plenty different enough, yet still had nice homages to TWOK. This Trek will never be the original Trek, but I enjoyed this one for what it was.
Bingowings said:
It's as much an Empire as the Soviet Union was.
This is pretty ignorant. As much as nations voluntarily provide us with overseas military bases (in a mutually advantageous relationship, as we are paying rent), or perhaps adopt our culture (not forcibly, but simply the nature of being an influential culture), or even looking at our historical conquests (every nation on earth owns territory once owned by another people but obtained during some historical conquest), I don't think it's fair to label the US as an empire. The Soviet Union forcibly held several republics as part of what was truly the Russian Empire, particularly the Caucuses or Baltic republics, and even the central Asian republics. The most willing collaborators were Belarus and Ukraine. But beyond the USSR's own borders, it forcibly maintained communist governments in Hungary and the rest of Eastern Europe. This went beyond what some might compare in the US's actions. Several proxy wars took place in countries like Afghanistan, African or East Asian nations, or South America. These were wars where the US and USSR were promoting their ideal political/economic systems but were not directly involved. But when one of the Soviet Union's satellite states attempt to liberalize on its own accord, the Soviets moved in and crushed the governments' efforts and replaced those politicians with their own brand. The US has never acted so aggressively to promote its style of government or economic system. How freely we have allowed nations we have liberated to hate us and insult us, such as Afghanistan and Iraq. If we were truly an empire, those nations would be paying us oil through the nose to reimburse us for our efforts.
Warbler said:
darth_ender said:
Warb, don't respond to Bingowings if you keep him on ignore. Replying to others quoting him is no different than unblocking a comment.
I disagree. I don't see how reading other people's quotes of him is the same as unblocking a comment. If I had a way to block the parts of people's posts where they are quoting him, I would.
Don't read it. It has the same effect. And if you do read it, don't respond, even if it's infuriating to you, because you are then still carrying on a conversation with him, which you are attempting to avoid by blocking him.
darth_ender said:
As much as you might not like what he says, if you are genuinely trying to ignore him, don't read the quotes, much less reply to them.
it is very difficult to not reply when someone calls America, an empire.
I agree. I know why some call it that, but I think its a simplistic and unfair judgment. Sometimes (and I know I am a pot calling the kettle black for saying this) it is better to just ignore the offending comment instead of responding to it. You're not going to change anyone's mind, especially over the Internet.
Honestly, that is encouraging. It's probably been about two years since my first reading, so I've forgotten some of the first and would probably need to reread it as a refresher. I started Dune Messiah and was interested, but ultimately chickened out after the first chapter for the above explained reasons. Thanks for the recommendations. I'd love to hear others seconding or 'thirding' the opinion, because I really loved the book that much and was so afraid of losing my adoration of it from weak sequels. But I so sincerely wanted more as well, and I appreciate you and others talking me into it.
Warb, don't respond to Bingowings if you keep him on ignore. Replying to others quoting him is no different than unblocking a comment. As much as you might not like what he says, if you are genuinely trying to ignore him, don't read the quotes, much less reply to them.
I truly loved Dune. I wish they would translate it to a good movie at some point before I die. I enjoy the costumes and atmosphere of Lynch's film, but there was so much I just couldn't get into, from internal monologue to the nature of the Bene Gesserits' abilities. But what really ruins it for me is the way the Harkonnens, especially the Baron, are portrayed. As vile and evil as he was, he was truly fascinating in my mind and a formidable enemy, not some floating blob with AIDS-induced vesicles all over his face and a desire to "pull the plug" on effeminate slaves' hearts. That really ruined it beyond redemption for me, even with various faneditors' attempts to curb other problems, and I simply cannot enjoy the film. At least the miniseries did far better with the Baron, weak as the series itself was.
Anyway, since this is a Dune book thread, yes, you should reread it. I am afraid to read beyond it, though, because I've heard so many state that the sequels became progressively weaker, and I don't want the concept tainted in my head. However, I am open to those willing to talk me into reading them. In other words, I want to believe I will enjoy the sequels, but I need motivation.
On the original topic, when is the release date for this? I don't know if I'll ever finish my Deleted Scenes Project :( There's always something more to find or wait for.
Many here know my religious affiliation, as well as my lack of editing skills. Well, I just recently had an idea that will probably never come to fruition from anyone, but it’s a fun thought anyway. You see, in the past 10 years there have been several movies about Joseph Smith made by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that star a man named Nathan Mitchell in the role of the adult Joseph Smith:
The Restoration
Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration
Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration (re-edited version that includes 40% different footage)
Emma Smith: My Story
Praise to the Man
Treasure in Heaven: The John Tanner Story
The Times and Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith
With the possible exception of the last one (which I’ve only watched portions of), each of these has footage unique to it, though many of the actors are the same throughout. I’m sure a unique and interesting movie could be spliced together from the various pieces, though I’m not sure what different aim it would serve. Perhaps it would just be an extended edition or something.
Interestingly, a different boy played Smith as a 14 year-old in the different films. The boy who played him in The Restoration is named Dustin Harding. That same boy, though older, played Smith again in a more recent film as an adult, the film being called Joseph Smith: Plates of Gold. Again, it would be another opportunity to edit the films together to tell a somewhat different story.
Anyway, that’s my proposal to the void that no one will take up 😃
Continuing this discussion from the Armchair Movie Critic Thread:
SilverWook said:
The transporter has always been a story problem in that it can be a magical problem solver in one episode or movie, that is forgotten about when a similar dilemma comes up. One reason it frequently gets damaged, or external phenomena renders it useless.
TAS and TNG opened a can of worms in using molecular patterns to reconstitute a character or restore them to health. (The person doesn't remember anything that happened after they last beamed out.) Which leads to the thorny question why you can't beam up someone who just died in your landing party and restore them to life, as the "alive" pattern is still in the buffer?
Another Star Trek thread that I believe deserves its own space.... Considering this is a crowd of Star Wars fans who in general do not like to accept every Star Wars-related story as canonical, (with some just accepting ANH and ESB, some just accepting the complete OT, some accepting the PT and OT, some accepting certain aspects of EU and not others, etc.), and considering that a thread discussing this flexible personal canon already exists, I thought a similar thread for Trek would be appropriate.
I never thought I would enjoy the Trek novels, especially considering how inconsistent they could be with each other and with movies/episodes that followed later. However, I lately have realized what a treasure some of them can be, and their lack of cohesiveness is really an opportunity to more easily disregard stuff you don't care for (I'm already pretty flexible in my concept of 'canonical' anyway).
At this point, partly due to ignorance, my personal canon accepts episodes and films related to TOS, TNG, plus TAS. But I'm starting to explore a different, parallel personal canon (in other words, it may conflict at points with the established canon, but in my head, I'm looking at an alternative canon without disregarding the established stuff). I'm considering all the James Blish short stories based on TOS episodes, all the Alan Dean Foster stories based on TAS episodes, all the book novelizations, and I'm starting to explore other novels with the TOS crew to flesh it out. As I've said elsewhere, I'm looking at stuff to tell more about the Enterprise under Robert April or Christopher Pike, the years between TOS and TMP, and the years between TMP and TWOK (wherein many say a second 5 year mission took place). I think I will really enjoy this.
I know I started the All Things Star Trek thread, but this thread is too specific a discussion I believe to simply go under the other thread. I will link to it in the first post for archivists' sakes.
So the questions:
Which series is your favorite: TOS; TNG; DS9; VOY; ENT; TOS cast films; TNG cast films; Abrams films?
Why?
Would you like to see another film in the Prime Universe, perhaps following the TNG cast, or maybe instead following the DS9 or VOY cast?
How about commanders? Do you like Shatner's Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Archer, or Pine's Kirk? Or perhaps one of the lesser/lesser known characters/commanders, such as Spock, Riker, Pike, Decker, etc.?
Personally, I really love TNG. I think it really develops its characters in an interesting way, doesn't get too silly (most of the time), had a number of interesting moral dilemmas, explored fun theories, and simply was a great show. Sadly, my view is somewhat ignorant, as I've not had much exposure to DS9, VOY, or ENT. I'm not terribly interested in Enterprise, to be quite honest, and my interest in Voyager is probably mostly for its Borg-related episodes. Deep Space 9 really is a series I'd like to learn more about, as I heard it got very interesting, especially when it dealt with the Dominion War, interaction with the Klingons, and religious topics that Roddenberry wanted to avoid.
Erikstormtrooper said:
That was a good book.
I will be done with Vendetta by midnight tonight. It really is fantastic! I expected more Borg, but the direction it took is more what Star Trek is about, with human(oid) drama and moral dilemmas. I really have enjoyed it thus far, and expect to be satisfied with the conclusion.
FanFiltration said:
darth_ender said:
I want to get this book some time.
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Phase-II-Series/dp/0671568396/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366348291&sr=8-1&keywords=star+trek+phase+ii
I have that book, it's excellent! They provide scrips and outlines for the planed episodes. Another excellent book that is a great companion to that one is...
Still haven't gotten the book I linked to, but the book you included here is now the property of darth_ender. Price: $0.75 at a Friends of the Library bookstore :)
TheBoost said:
Hey, it's me. said:
There will never be peaceful segregation between communities while one community chooses to shut themselves off from everyone else and refuse to even try to integrate with the local people. That creates division and ill feeling, when that's the first thing you should be looking to avoid. And this is the alienation problem the majority of people have with the Muslim communities. There are areas of East London where road names are written in Arabic for crying out loud. They don't want to integrate and they never will integrate.
I know what you mean! Look at the endless strife between Chinese Americans and us REAL Americans over here. The violence and strife never stops! Their ethnic enclaves as bastions of crime (you can go there and buy illegal fireworks!) Chinatown my ass. More like "HateAmericaBurg!"
And don't get me started on all the Mexican's here in California. They live together in their little communities, (the ones we let them buy, over by the lettuce farms), speaking Spanish, planning to never integrate. Why can't they be like all the GOOD Mexicans from the last generation, who's kids are all English speakers, and fully integrated within three generations.
And I know that despite the history of all immigrant ethnic groups in the history of the world always assimilating every time ever always, I know THIS batch, this current batch, are just no good.
Hugh said:
Resisitance is not futile?
So I doubt after so many days that I'd be able to do a decent job on Star Trek Into Darkness. However, it would better fit the original purpose of this thread, as I really enjoyed the film immensely, and this thread is for critiquing films I enjoy in jest. Your enjoyment of the film is irrelevant. Only my enjoyment matters. ;)
In all seriousness, one flaw stood out to me right away: transporters! Why is it that Kirk can transport from Delta Vega to the Enterprise at warp speed using Scotty's transwarp principle, and that same principle is used to transport...erm...John Harrison to Kronos many lightyears away (bearing in mind that planets are rotating and oribiting at thousands of miles an hour in solar systems that are orbiting the galaxy), and yet it was impossible to beam Spock and Harrison off of a moving vehicle, because in this alternate timeline transporters can't lock on moving targets from even relatively close distances? Maybe one could say such was an acceptable excuse for Spock's mother's death in the first film, but by now Scotty's technology should have at least included a modest upgrade to most transporters so they could at least lock on targets not moving too quickly.
JEDIT: Feel free to create your own contributions to the STID critique list.
I think most firmly convicted religious believers hope that one day the whole world will see things the same way they do. Muslims tend to be a group with more aggressive "proselytizing" methods, but as Warbler points out, those who are most aggressive are not even close to a majority. Nevertheless, they represent a substantially larger minority than their Christian or Jewish equivalents. It leads to stereotyping and fearful reactions to the whole group, but it's true that one cannot punish that whole group because of the actions of a minority. Sadly it's difficult to balance security with liberty. As Franklin purportedly said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
RicOlie_2??? Now there are two of them???
adywan said:
darth_ender said:
Alright, I shall oblige. To me, for all Ady's perfectionism for the things I never noticed, this one stands out a bit. It just doesn't look right. The original shot looks like an acceptable rotation, but the modified shot does not. Clearly the position of each leg is drastically different, and if you look at the timer, only one second has elapsed between the shots. But I hate to ask him to put in even a little more work when he's already been so generous. I just wanted to make him aware, which he apparently already was.
When 005 asked me about the leg placement on the video i thought he meant that they weren't exactly the same placement. It wasn't until you posted this screenshot that i noticed that the video i uploaded is missing some completed shots. 2 of the shots are earlier renders done before i decided to add the CG probe. I've just uploaded the proper version to VImeo, but the bloody queueing system there sucks and won't even start processing for another 40 minutes. Tried youtube and it instantly blocked it. Funny though because the timecode that it flagged as being fox's copyright was the shot where i replaced the mound before Han's head pops up. Not sure why it should flag that place. Well i don't even know if Vimeo will allow it either yet.
EDIT. It seems that Vimeo is fine with it. Here's the link:
https://vimeo.com/67785201
Glad to hear it. It looks beautiful! Thanks for sharing the completed version :)
No worries. I'm patient. I wish I could burn to BD, but it's not an option at the present. Thanks, as always, for what you've done :)
Alright, I shall oblige. To me, for all Ady's perfectionism for the things I never noticed, this one stands out a bit. It just doesn't look right. The original shot looks like an acceptable rotation, but the modified shot does not. Clearly the position of each leg is drastically different, and if you look at the timer, only one second has elapsed between the shots. But I hate to ask him to put in even a little more work when he's already been so generous. I just wanted to make him aware, which he apparently already was.
Oh, thanks for letting me know. :)
I hate to be the one to point out errors. It often bugs me when others do so, particularly when the problems are terribly trivial, but I don't think anyone else caught this one, and I don't think it's as trivial as some. In your most recent video, Adywan, your more animated probe droid is great. However, his arms are bent so the joints are outward and the 'hands' are more central, while in the original the joints are turned inward with the 'hands' outward. After Han shoots the first time and ducks, the camera quickly cuts back to the probe droids, and in your version, the appendages are exactly as the original's. While we see some movement of its appendages just before that, there is no way they could have moved so suddenly to that position in that brief split second. I'll post pics later.
I hope I don't come off as rude, but I'm just curious about when you're planning on releasing a DVD? I'm one of those old guys who still hasn't got a BD burner, nor do I have much HD space. No rush, just curious. Thanks, as always, for doing this :)
It is the main link you gave here. I'm wondering if it's because I'm at a local college. I know they block some sites, though usually it's pretty open. I'll try again at a different location later.
