darth_ender

What a controversy!  Perfect for this thread.

Friday.

Or sooner.

Or maybe later, but probably not, and if so, not much.  Very soon.

Indeed.  I used to teach LDS seminary (basically a religious course for LDS high school students during school hours where they are permitted to take an hour off to attend) for two years in Tucson.  At one of the two schools I taught at, I received a report from my students that there was a boy at their school who made two small slits at the corners of his mouth and called himself the Joker.  His scars were no where near as intense as Heath Ledger's character, but as this was just after TDK came out, it was obviously an attempt at emulation.  One day at school, he had managed to smuggle in a knife and stabbed another teen, thankfully not too seriously.

Similarly, we all remember the Aurora, CO shooting at the premier of TDKR by a fellow also calling himself Joker.

I still love the Dark Knight Trilogy.

People just love to emulate evil sometimes.  I'm not blaming Nanner or anything.  I just thought it was an interesting coincidence.

Adulterers were to be stoned in the Old Testament.  How many of these people would do that?  Clearly they fail to understand Christianity if they take it upon themselves to inflict punishments.

But bear in mind that not all homophobia is motivated by Judeo-Christian prejudice.  Muslims would be far harsher, for instance.  And bigotry even exists among non-believers.  Homophobia is prevalent across many societies, and is often not linked to religious beliefs at all.

http://news.yahoo.com/slender-man-now-linked-3-violent-acts-200804382--abc-news-topstories.html

Of all the stupid hypocritical evil acts!  It infuriates me.  If these people justify their actions based on the Bible, then they clearly don't understand the teachings of Christ.  I hope the victims recover as well as possible.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Perhaps the following should be in the religion thread, but since it centres heavily on matters pertaining to abortion, I felt perhaps it would be best put here.

...

As some of you have probably already guessed, I've espoused a pro-choice stance when it comes to abortion in the past. It isn't really because I believe an underdeveloped embryo/fetus isn't a viable human and that the mother has the right to abort if she wishes; it's because I have a rather dim view of physical existence on this Earth.

Basically, I feel that existence on this world is one of suffering, that when one brings a child into this world, they not only bring more misery into this overpopulated, dying world, but they heap misery upon the child they've brought into this world, however unwittingly. I have felt, more often than not, that it is better not to ever be born into this world. I have felt that if there is an afterlife, it is best to skip right over this one and go straight to the end of the road to become one with God. That is why I've supported a person's right to have an abortion.

However, about a week ago, while I was lying in bed waiting to fall asleep, I began to wonder if perhaps aborting an unborn child doesn't spare them from the misery of this world. I began to wonder if God wanted people to be born into this world as some part of Its master plan -- I began to wonder if God incarnated souls into this material world so that they could live a life of physical suffering before finally graduating, so to speak, and passing on through into the spirit world. I began to wonder if abortion didn't just force the souls of the unborn to be reincarnated into another body, prolonging their suffering in this corrupted universe.

So what am I saying? I'm saying I don't consider myself pro-choice anymore. Of course, I don't consider myself pro-life, either. I suppose you could say I'm caught at a point somewhere between the two stances where they cancel each other out (if that makes any sense).

 Assuming the existence of God (which I do), I can't imagine why he would create earth, create mankind, create a beautiful and loving means of procreation, and then be okay with us killing our offspring before their birth because this world sucks.  He knows this world is an awful place, but he also knows it is a beautiful place.  He knows that one person can make it more beautiful.  LDS theology teaches that this world was made for us to grow and learn and experience the good and the bad, and thus better appreciate the good.  If one believes in God, I can't see how they think He would be okay with abortion in most cases.

benduwan said:

pittrek said:

 Well this goes far beyond what I originally had in mind, but it's definitely worth thinking about. Do you have the german "Making of Empire" and Parbot's documentary?

yes

Also, you seem to watch documentaries more often than I, maybe you'll be able to help me with one thing. Years ago when I first had an idea about doing this, I've seen "some" documentary about Empire. When they came to the scene where the wampa catches Luke, I remember clearly the documentary had MORE lines of Luke's monologue before the wampa arm through him off the tauntaun. I always thought it was the standard SPFX documentary but when I watch it now the extra lines are not there. I thought of course I just imagined them (I've seen the documentary years ago), but now that we have the ebook footage we have the proof that Luke had more lines. Unfortunately the footage is silent. Do you have any idea which documentary could have these "extra lines"?

i don´t  know.

watch the documentaries.maybe you will find what you search.

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/making-empire-strikes-documentary-1980.html

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xujtfq_lost-michel-parbot-the-making-of-empire-strikes-back-documentary-incomplete_shortfilms

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/02/watch-this-old-school-empire-strikes-back-documentary

they are all the lost making of the empire strikes back dokumentaries with different footage.

can´t find the german making of.maybe i will upload it on myspleen later.

 I hope you'll put up the German version :)

Jetrell Fo said:

We lost our first attempt through a miscarriage.  The emotion tied to such traumas are genuine.  Being excited about having a child because you want one and are willing to sacrifice to raise that child better than you were raised and then in a flash, it's done.  Yeah, I felt it too.  I believe it makes me a better parent to have allowed that emotion it's due.  

I don't speak for anyone but myself.

Thoughts of strength and peace sent your way ender.

 I'm so sorry for your loss, but I'm glad you used the experience to your benefit rather than detriment.  I'm sure you are a better parent because of it.  Thanks for your thoughts :)

pittrek said:

Star Wars has one more of these extended sequences, "Life on Tatooine".

The OT scenes are basically done, I'll wait if darth_ender posts something interesting and then I'll upload everything I have to myspleen

 My goal is to have something up by Saturday.  I hadn't realized just how disorganized everything is, and though I don't intend to make it as perfect as I'd originally intended, it's still too messy to just upload as is.  Hopefully I can have it all together by Saturday, and perhaps I've got something you might be able to use.

Thanks for all the well wishes and prayers.  I believe it will be okay.

And Bingo, I was just teasing about the neighbors.  Truthfully, I hardly know any of them, as we recently moved to a new home.  My previous post was entirely a joke.  Thanks again for the well wishing.

Warbler said:

darth_ender said:

Sadly, the picture's grammar skills are lacking as well, since in the language in use there would require a conjugation of the singular second-person in every verb.  "Thou hast [correct] imbibed alcohol and are [should be art] intoxicated."  Also, the correct possessive pronoun should be used.  You is plural, thou is singular, and thus we should use the singular possessive pronoun: thy, or in this case, thine, as it is followed by a word that begins with a vowel (much like when we use an instead of a).  "Return to thine abode, sir."  Sloppy!

What was this thread about? ;)

 shouldn't it be

"Returneth to thine abode, sir.  Thou hast imbibethed alcohol art intoxicated"

: P

Terrible, Warbler.  Utterly terrible!  Perhaps I should create a thread on Early Modern English grammar.

Returneth is the third-person singular conjugation in the indicative mood.  E.g. "He returneth..."  Return, in this case, is in the imperative mood, or as you probably would call it, a command.  It's simply return.  And hast + past participle verb indicates the perfect tense.  You wouldn't say today, "You have went to the store," or worse (and closer to what you have done), "You have goned to the store."  Again, the -eth conjugation indicates third-person present, and speaking to you means speaking in second-person; in this case, you have combined a present and past tense conjugation in a gruesome butchering of a slightly older version of our language.  You should be ashamed! ;)

Return to thine abode, Warbler.  Thou hast imbibed alcohol and art intoxicated. ;)

Bingowings said:

darth_ender said:

Bingowings said:

It's as inconsistent for me as arguing for the rights of a zygote while eating a pig.

 It seems to me that, say, spiders don't have a definable personality, and therefore don't have any rights either.  Their behavior is essentially programmed instincts.  So exterminating them isn't a big deal ;)

I do wish to ask, do some animals merit more rights than others in people's views, especially Bingowings'?  For instance, does greater intelligence warrant better treatment?  Does greater similarity to humans warrant better treatment, such as a cow vs. a crocodile vs. a goldfish vs. a spider?  Or are they all equally deserving of life, liberty, and their own pursuit of happiness?

I personally use animal life my general cut off point because I have to draw a line somewhere. Jainist monks would go much further but yes if I were to have an unmovable plague of babies eating my roof I would probably not use an exterminator. Where as millions of spiders which can't be scooped up and taken outside without leaving equally destructive stragglers will probably not be greeted with the same degree of mercy...to my regret. If I were to run over a fetus while cutting my grass I would be alarmed and probably as distraught as if I ran over a goldfish cutting my grass.

 I appreciate your answer, and truthfully do enjoy your perspective on this subject.  As I haven't studied much Jainism, where would they draw the line?  And considering they can't photosynthesize, how do they obtain needed nutrients if too careful?

Sadly, the picture's grammar skills are lacking as well, since in the language in use there would require a conjugation of the singular second-person in every verb.  "Thou hast [correct] imbibed alcohol and are [should be art] intoxicated."  Also, the correct possessive pronoun should be used.  You is plural, thou is singular, and thus we should use the singular possessive pronoun: thy, or in this case, thine, as it is followed by a word that begins with a vowel (much like when we use an instead of a).  "Return to thine abode, sir."  Sloppy!

What was this thread about? ;)

Warbler said:

In that case, please also remember you know a few pro life people online that do not act like nothing happened.

 Ditto.  This sort of loss cannot be overcome easily.  I will reveal to you all that my wife has been on bed rest for the past 3+/- weeks due to vaginal bleeding and a fear of pending miscarriage.  We had an appointment on Thursday, and everything appears to be okay for the time being, though she is to remain on bed rest for another month to be sure.  But even the fear of losing our baby has truly had me scared out of my mind.  I can't imagine what it was like for you, TV's, and I pray I never have to face a choice as difficult as yours or long-lastingly painful.  Thanks for having shared your story.

Bingowings said:

Not everyone will react the same way or feel the same way either. That doesn't make them lesser people or potentially lesser parents.

 Well, perhaps they don't react that way because they have no personality, in which case they are indeed lesser people.  I have a few neighbors with no personality ;)

http://www.scissortailsilk.com/2014/05/13/how-abortion-has-changed-the-discussion-of-miscarriage/

So the dehumanization of unborn children for the sake of abortion advocates has come to the emotional neglect and harm of those who have "spontaneous abortions."  I mean, I know their only loss was nothing more than hopes and dreams for a future person, not the loss of an actual person.  But still, it seems that we should not always be catering to those whose abortions are elective, and actually try and help those who really feel as if they lost a beloved child.

Bingowings said:

It's as inconsistent for me as arguing for the rights of a zygote while eating a pig.

 It seems to me that, say, spiders don't have a definable personality, and therefore don't have any rights either.  Their behavior is essentially programmed instincts.  So exterminating them isn't a big deal ;)

I do wish to ask, do some animals merit more rights than others in people's views, especially Bingowings'?  For instance, does greater intelligence warrant better treatment?  Does greater similarity to humans warrant better treatment, such as a cow vs. a crocodile vs. a goldfish vs. a spider?  Or are they all equally deserving of life, liberty, and their own pursuit of happiness?

The more I think about this, the more I hope it happens.  There is really a lot of potential with a product like this. There are many things I enjoy about the OT radio drama even more than the movies themselves (and vice versa of course).  I imagine a radio drama of the prequels really could enhance and improve the story of the prequels, and, as Boost said, minimize the bad.

Unfortunately, I know how difficult it can be to successfully pull off a collaborative project like this.  I wish all the best of luck.

Bingowings said:

 I've seen this picture used before.  As I've said, I see the argument, particularly from non-religious folks, that the above is not a person.  I disagree, but that is beside the point for the moment.  I'll concede not the argument itself, but rather that an argument can be made that such is not a person (though no woman knows she is pregnant at that point anyway).

Usually by the time a woman knows she is pregnant, the baby looks like this:

Some might call this the "prawn stage" ;)  As you can see, quite a bit has developed. including a little heart that is actually beating the child's own blood through its own circulatory system, completely separate from the mother's.

Here is what my child looks like right now.

http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-22-weeks

The child has its own nervous system.  She looks like a little person.  She can hear, which, as I pointed out in an earlier article, allows for the very earliest development of language skills.  She can suck her thumb.  She kicks my wife.  She sees light and dark.  She can touch and feel things.  She can Were she to be born today, assuming she survived delivery, she would struggle for life (much like Baby Jayden did in the article I first posted to bump this thread).  In the US, if my wife decided, "You know what? I really don't want this fetus to actually become a person.  Too much work.  Expensive diapers that will only get poo on them.  I'm going to have an abortion."  She would not need my permission, or even consent.

"Honey, I'm home!  What a day at work.  How was your day?"

"Oh, I aborted our daughter."

"What!?"

To me, though my daughter is not yet viable, she is clearly a person, and it amazes me that anyone, even non-religious persons, can doubt it.  Obviously I believe personhood goes further back than that, but this demonstrates my point for skeptics I hope.

Nice post.  Believe it or not, I agree with you more than you realize.  Yesterday we had a moth in the house.  It was in my daughter's closet and I was worried it would start munching on her clothes, so I tried to catch it with a cup to let it go outside rather than killing it.  I'm certainly not as concerned as you, and as I pointed out, I do eat meat regularly, but I try to be kind to any animals that come my way, even insects.  Even those we eat should be treated kindly.

Here is an article on LDS teachings regarding kindness to animals.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/08/the-gospel-and-animals?lang=eng

Probably not interesting to most, but maybe someone would like it.

This topic is completely genuine, no sarcasm intended at all.  I value all life.  Some life appears more valuable than others.  I do believe humans, from conception to death, to be most valuable and killing them to be most immoral.  But this thread is not intended to focus on humans, but rather other members of the animal kingdom, as well as even plants, fungi, prokaryotes, whatever you want to talk about.

I will first start by stating that I recently saw a lengthy ad on a webpage (can't even remember which) talking about why the viewer should choose to be vegan.  I didn't watch the whole thing, but I saw chicks being ground up, cattle's throats being slit and the blood drained from their bodies, etc.  It got me thinking.  I've seen flyers and such before, and I remember my first ballot when I turned 18, where I voted for larger cages for livestock (soon to be eaten, mind you) so they would be able to turn around.  I fairly recently saw a wonderful movie called Temple Grandin, and though the focus of the movie was on a woman overcoming her obstacles in autism, I love how she devoted her life to producing more humane means of treating cattle that would soon be slaughtered.

I eat meat, and I rather enjoy it.  It is the easiest way to get sufficient protein in one's diet.  But is our society so addicted to meat that we treat animals cruelly so we can get that Chik-Filet sammich?  Can we justify the killing of animals?  Our bodies are designed to eat them.  Can we find more humane ways to produce meat?  Can we learn as a society to rely on it less, while still retaining a meat filled diet for those who prefer it?  How?

I also enjoy mushrooms and onions as two of my favorite veggies, so you can see that I am making sure I consume life from other kingdoms as well, not just the animal kingdon. ;)

I believe all life is sacred and human life moreso.  I believe in doing our best to preserve life when possible, and only taking when necessary.  I am a hypocrite who eats hamburgers, yes, but I do believe eating meat is okay, though I also believe that the treatment of animals destined for the slaughterhouse should be as humane as possible.  I believe that human life, with or without definable personalities, should be preserved as often as possible, except when a particular human has demonstrated extreme depravity and cruelly killed another human (or been responsible for a few thousands or millions, whatever the case may be).  That's the way I see it.  I've made my points, very effectively I believe.  Obviously other folks disagree.  If I've caused anyone to even take a moment's pause in their support of pro-choice, then perhaps I've been successful on some level.

Good job.  I knew it would turn to this.  Can't handle an obvious joke with the little winky faces to make it obvious.  Can't handle the inconsistencies in your argument pointed out.  So go ahead and begin mocking another's religion that you repeatedly demonstrate a failure to understand.  Go ahead and insult others, when even another non-religious person finds your arguments and beliefs untenable.  Yes, real mature people resort to name calling when they can't make their point effectively.  Congratulations.  You won a handful of bacteria for your victory.

Well, I think we are at an impasse, and I have little desire to continue this train of discussion.  If it looks like plankton, it can be treated like plankton, and thus killed when the mother is inconvenienced.  If it looks like bacteria, we'll just use a little elbow grease and spare as many as possible.  We'll save all pigs and bacteria, but eat onions and allow abortions.  The crushing logic has me defeated, but I'm so stubborn that I'll stick my archaic Judeo-Christian/Mormonite views.

PS I recommend taking prednisone.  It will lower your immune system and thus save countless bacteria on a daily basis.  Plus it will reduce the swelling of your ego, now that you've clearly won this debate. ;)