I assure you, apologizing to you didn't even enter my mind. Glad to hear you'll finally give up, since the only person on your side is worse than you.
^Well, might I offer a belated concurrence?
@Darth Id...Funny, I was thinking of starting a thread debating the qualities of certain jerks who had been posting here lately, and you were one of them!
hairy_hen said:
I see my point has completely gone over various heads. Excellent, most excellent. By all means, continue to spew the diarrhea everywhere; I'll just sit back and watch.
Oh, and Fink? The only reason my mom doesn't wear underwear is because she makes your mom wear it on her head. You thought I wouldn't find out . . . but I did.
Yes, no one got such sophisticated humor. Or maybe we got it and are just ignoring you because we still feel like talking about it. Your pick.
imperialscum said:
darth_ender said:
See, you say you are not insulting, but every word is arrogant, every comment absolutely correct. Here, let me chat for a moment. Yes, grammatically, both words you underlined are technically imperative in nature. That does not make them demands. He asked kindly, with pleases in both cases and a thank you to follow. I spoke to a doctor earlier this shift and asked for an order of medication. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but if I said, "Please give me something else for this woman's nausea. What I'm giving doesn't seem to help." Did I order the doctor around? Would he be offended that I, the nurse, commanded him to do something? Nope, because in spite of it's grammatical construction, I did not actually demand anything of him.
I am very pleased that you admit that it was grammatically a command.
You gave a bad analogy though. A very good analogy would be if you said to the doctor "Please don't treat this patient, you can treat the one over there instead". This one has all the elements: (1) asking doctor not to do his function (analogy to thread's function), (2) asking him to move to some other patient (analogy to moving to the other thread), and (3) making commands when you are in no position to do so.
I don't see how your analogy, which only has one additional criterium, is so much better than mine. The crucial aspect was that you claim an inappropriate order was made. I pointed out that if I had made what was technically a sentence with a command in it, but I had done it in the same way Warbler had, it would not have been demanding in nature. I could have added to my example about the nausea, "And please don't order Reglan, she'd like Phenergan instead," and thus it would meet all the criteria you insist upon and still not be rude. Conversations do in fact go that way with mutual respect between the physician and nurse, and yet commanding sentence structure still exists. My ultimate point is that such structure does not equal a demand, but is still essentially a polite request, and the fact that you continue to cling to technicalities in order to justify what in fact was rudeness on your part, all the while ignoring more substantial arguments against your actions (and this has been going on for the past several topics we've debated), proves that you are an idiot. Sorry.
See, you say you are not insulting, but every word is arrogant, every comment absolutely correct. Here, let me chat for a moment. Yes, grammatically, both words you underlined are technically imperative in nature. That does not make them demands. He asked kindly, with pleases in both cases and a thank you to follow. I spoke to a doctor earlier this shift and asked for an order of medication. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but if I said, "Please give me something else for this woman's nausea. What I'm giving doesn't seem to help." Did I order the doctor around? Would he be offended that I, the nurse, commanded him to do something? Nope, because in spite of it's grammatical construction, I did not actually demand anything of him.
Your arrogance and self-certainty, your unwillingness to listen or be reasonable, your intent to offend and detract, your demand that you have the right to do whatever you want in an unmoderated forum because apparently courtesy only applies to real people, not sentences posted through cyberspace, all point to one conclusion in my mind, although TV's Frink has a pretty reasonable alternate hypothesis.
And you wonder why I call you an idiot.
I hope so, because I thought you had some great ideas in your TPM edit.
dclarkg said:
darth_ender said:
Well, bear in mind that there are respectful ways to express one's opinion as well as disrespectful. If I say, "I think you're ideas are a bunch of crap, but it's simply a fact, so don't get offended," it's a little different than if I said, "Well, I feel that because there is no evidence for what you believe, it cannot possibly be true." You tend to speak in terms of the former, when the latter would certainly come off a little less condescending.
I understand what you are saying and I know that is hard to express such an honest opinion like ''what a bunch of crap'' in a way that feels respectful to a believer, I usually add ''with all due respect'' but I guess that won't help much since it sounds more condescending. I guess that you are right about the words I can use to express my opinions.
You're right, it is difficult. I am an RN at a hospital and work night shift. About 21 hours ago, one of my patients passed away. His family was sad because he didn't receive his last rites in time. I hope you would choose better words of comfort than, "Well, it's okay because it's all a bunch of crap anyway," were you in my shoes. You know, religion is meaningful to people. Just like music, a sunset, love. It is deep and has deeper implications to a person than you seem to realize. There are psychological benefits, health benefits, things that are proven to be actual benefits. Regardless of whether you believe it or not, whether it is true or not, if you dismiss it so readily, you miss far more than you could possibly realize.
darth_ender said:
You do realize that there are brilliant people who understand the Bible and its contradictions and that there are challenges to one's faith in a secular and scientific world, brilliant people who are indeed quite scientific themselves, who still believe in God, right?
I'm aware of that fact but let me point out that all those great minds who have contributed to our scientific knowledge have done so by knowing, understanding and applying the scientific rules and laws of the disciplines they studied, they didn't just wake up and pray for all that scientific knowledge that, by the way, none of it is on the bible. What they believed about god and the connection/relationship of him with their scientific field was not related in any way on how actually the scientific world works. They discovered such amazing things by using the reason and logic behind the scientific method. Also there is a lot of great secular/atheist scientific minds but I don't see what difference does it make in my argument, I just feel I had to point that out.
That is not my point. My point is that they understand that there is scientific reasoning, but they also realize there is room for faith. And it did not detract at all from their brilliance. Try as you may to demonstrate that intelligent thinking comes from rejecting such things, many intelligent people actually embrace them.
Warbler said:
Can you prove he is dead? Do you really know for a fact that he is dead?
Well, so far he seems to pop up a lot on grilled cheese sandwiches and stones but nobody has show me any recent picture of him, like a 2015 footage of him hanging around on his last vacation trip or so... I can't prove that he is dead but at least is obvious that he is being physically absent from this planet since... well, since he died. Being physically absent from this world since the day you die could be used as a definition of ''dead''. We know that the body was never found but that does not automatically mean that he resurrected.
I shouldn't be the one providing evidence of the obvious absence, you made the claim that he is alive so you should present the evidence of that statement. So... Can you prove he is alive? Do you really know for a fact that he is alive?
The absence of proof is not proof. It is justification for doubt, but even if I didn't believe in God, I would only be an agnostic, because I'd recognize the possibility.
But there is no need to prove something like this. You don't believe. We got it, thanks. But we take things on faith. Perhaps it's a means of receiving evidence different from that which you employ. Have you ever, you know, scientifically ruled out such a mechanism for seeking knowledge? Have you ever actually sought something in faith before deciding it's untrue? That is the scientific method, after all.
Warbler said:
If for you he didn't exist how can you state so mannor of factly that he is dead? If someone is in fact dead, they had to have existed.I was referring to the biblical reference of him being crucified and killed, a historical ''Jesus'' character may have existed at that time and I think some ancient references can be found in historic texts outside the bible but not the kind of ''I'm the son of god, make miracles and will save all the human race'' references.
To make it clear, for me the biblical Jesus character is just that, a fictional character like Harry Potter, the three little pigs, Zeus, Cinderella, Dionysus, Humpty Dumpty, Mitra, etc.
I love to see that you like to point out contradictions, I know a book full of them in case you want to read some ;)
Oh boy, a book written by inspired but still mortal humans actually has faults and contradictions! We never knew! ;)
^Agreed.
What is racism? It is the presumption that because you know something as superficial as the color of one's skin, you know all you need to judge a person.
Why do I bring this up? Because people like Darth Id are utilizing the exact same prejudice in their judgment of religion and believers. When they know a few superficial aspects, they think they know all that is necessary to condemn the whole thing, when in reality they are ignorant to almost the entire substance.
Ergo, Darth Id is a bigot, and I'd say the same for imperialscum. Though I admit that the latter's phrasing was generally a bit more tactful, he still demonstrates the same ignorance and prejudice.
Darth Id said:
RicOlie_2 said:
Darth Id said:
darth_ender said:
I love Easter.
....the principal celebration, of Jesus Christ's resurrection, is a Christian celebration.
Uh-huh, because hunting for brightly-painted eggs and worshipping an anthropomorphized rabbit have so very much to do with, like, some bearded ghost guy haunting ancient Judea...
Well, I think every day is a day for you to celebrate your own bigotry, because you truly do revel in it.
Darth Id said:
darth_ender said:
I love Easter.
Well here's something we can agree on--I too love the pagan festival of Oestre, the goddess of fertility. (Look it up.)
I mean, Christ, don't Christians (and yes, Mormons, too, ender) even wonder where the name came from for what is supposedly their central holy day?
No, I don't wonder, not at this point. I knew that long ago. Thanks again for trying to make yourself look smart, but really, there are smart people who believe in God. Your arrogance is not justified.
Well, bear in mind that there are respectful ways to express one's opinion as well as disrespectful. If I say, "I think you're ideas are a bunch of crap, but it's simply a fact, so don't get offended," it's a little different than if I said, "Well, I feel that because there is no evidence for what you believe, it cannot possibly be true." You tend to speak in terms of the former, when the latter would certainly come off a little less condescending. You do realize that there are brilliant people who understand the Bible and its contradictions and that there are challenges to one's faith in a secular and scientific world, brilliant people who are indeed quite scientific themselves, who still believe in God, right?
Regardless of how things turned out with the bickering in this thread, I'm grateful that you posted this. Christ the Lord is risen today! I love Easter.
By the way, pictures 4, 6, and 7 are LDS ;)
Amazing! What more can I say? I'm so excited about this project moving forward, even if this is all you take the time to work on at present! Great work there, Ryan!
So I just finished up ROTJ yesterday with my children. They've never seen the PT, but I had done a poor job keeping them in a PT sterile environment. They knew there was a guy named Anakin, kept asking why Obi-wan had white hair, etc. But still, I kept the important secrets still secret, and so a small shock was the Darth Vader was Luke's father, though the bigger shock was, "Wait, Darth Vader is Anakin?!" Darn kids at school exposing to this stuff! Still, it was very rewarding and I'm glad I did it. I have the BDs, which my son kept wanting to pull out, but I had to keep redirecting him to Dark Jedi's V3 sets. It was a wonderful experience.
If I ever finish them, I will send you signed copies :)
Once again, well done. I'm truly impressed!
To say that looks amazing does not do it justice! I love it!
I'm such a dork. I think that Mos Espa shot must be from AOTC, because I don't remember any shot like that in TPM. That means it would be a CGI town too :( But if it's passable for the quick shot you're using it for, I guess we needn't be too picky.
As for shots from the back, there is the Falcon leaving Hoth base, traveling through hyperspace in ANH, and probably several other shots. I don't know if they are what you're looking for, but there're a couple ideas for you.
There's this shot where the Queen's ship lands in Mos Espa.
The nice thing is that TPM used physical models rather than CGI. If you made a screen grab and zoomed/cropped to a point before Amidala's ship got there, I think you could use the circular landing bay in the bottom right as a good Docking Bay 94.
What kind of shot are you hoping for with regards to the Falcon's engines? There are several shots from the back, but it seems you want something different.
Well, I did mean more in the online forum setting. If I said, "Hey, dclarkeg, you're going to hell" (which I don't believe, but I know many Christians do), were I in his shoes, I'd probably laugh. Whereas if he (or more likely Darth Id, since dclarkeg is more respectful) said, "Hey, ender, Jeebus was the bastard child of Mary fornicating with a Roman soldier, and only fools believe in him," I might just get offended.
But I can see how such beliefs might offend more personal relations, especially if such statements were frequently restated.
I personally do not like Stephanie Meyers (though she is a Mormon ;) ), but there are people who are passionate about her books and characters. While in certain circles I might freely criticize her and tear up the Twilight series. But if I'm in the midst of great fans, I'm not going to loudly proclaim just what an idiot she must be, how trashy her books are, how weak her prose, and how anyone who reads it must be the epitome of ignorant. I would choose to be respectful.
I really do appreciate your defense against such vocal jerks, and I appreciate your helping me see a bit more perspective. I just personally don't see a reason justifying why some have acted as they have. Like I said, I am writing a book. I am actually writing two, and if I am being honest, I'm not terribly far in either. However, both books carry heavy religious themes: one about the dangers of religious extremism, the other about two primary characters, one who is religious, the other atheist, and how they learn to appreciate each others' views. I see no reason why atheists and believers cannot have mutual respect, but a certain breed of arrogant atheists see no need for such mutual respect.
dclarkg said:
darth_ender said:
I was also defending Jesus Christ. You see, to me he is not just some guy. He is not even some remote supernatural being. I see him as a very dear friend, someone for whom I have a great deal of love. You may criticize me, my beliefs, my church, its founder, its leaders, its doctrine, its scripture. You may criticize similar things for broader Christianity. But when you actually belittle the Man I love most in this universe, I really cannot take it. It's not just being thin-skinned. Most of you wouldn't take me insulting a family member. This is much like that. You don't have to believe in him, but please do not disrespect him.Are you aware that the guy is dead right? You are getting mad for something that is not even intended to make YOU mad, I understand that you actually believe that the dude is somewhere/everywhere listening to everything/everybody making judgement/forgiving us all and etc. and you are defending(?) him but that is exactly the problem.
You see, I understand that everyone has a right to believe whatever they want and still deserve respect but sometimes just the fact of being an atheist is an offense to the believers. Religious people must understand that some of our atheist opinions will inevitable end in mocking, jokes, sarcasm and plain rejection of religious stuff. I know that for people of faith that is blasphemy and a total disrespect that of course it will make them offended but unfortunately and because of the same atheist opinions we hold there is nothing we can do about believers getting offended.
I sometimes get offended (as a human being) by religion because it manipulates people on how they should live their lives and push them to convince and/or impose their views in our social system (government, education, health, etc) where it should be a consensus and not an imposition of any kind. I also get offended when people tell others that they need Jesus in their heart or else they'll burn endlessly in hell. I get offended when religion takes the ability of people to stand on their own because of fear of imaginary tales written in many ages of our world that have minimum-to-none connection with the reality of how the world really works both socially and scientifically... and still I don't think that religious people should keep it shut because I may feel offended.
I want to clarify that I'm not saying all of this because of a specific comment, situation or person and is just to clarify what I'm trying to say here but bottom line it goes like this: if you say you are entitled to some respect for getting mad because of insults to a imaginary friend that you and many others believe in because an ancient book tells you so without no real sustainable evidence outside the book then I'm entitled to some respect as well when expresing my opinion about all religious tales being plain bullshit, for example I find hilarious when you said ''but please do not disrespect him'' when I don't even believe in the guy and therefore is obvious I'll keep expressing that in many ways .Please don't get me wrong here, I genuinely like you and I'm not trying to insult you in any way but if my opinions insult you then I can't do anything about it, there is a difference between someone being offensive and you finding something offensive and when it comes to religious people that line is very thin. If you demanding respect means that I can't express what I really think about a particular subject then you're being disrespectful towards others who disagree with you and unfortunately I can't comply with that request.
I'm just being honest here ;)
See, I just don't see how even the most extreme Christian statements like an atheist will burn in a hell he doesn't even believe in could really be that offensive. But mocking someone special to me in as disrespectful language as possible, as Darth Id insisted on doing in particular, is very hurtful. I am always respectful towards atheists' reasons for lacking belief. I believe in the rights of atheists and do not condemn them or criticize them for their lack of belief. But if that respect cannot be reciprocated, I get irritated. If you don't think it would be hurtful to criticize Jesus Christ to a Christian, then clearly you've never loved. If you want to say you don't believe, you still don't have to call him bull****.
dclarkg said:
darth_ender said:
@dclarkeg, ideally there will be teachings here as well, as that is any Christian's prerogative when posting here. However, I love the art you've shared. The last picture was commissioned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, BTW, by the artist Harry Anderson, who was a Seventh Day Adventist but did a number of paintings for my church.
The first is also LDS, by Greg Olson, an LDS painter. So good choice of pictures.
Well I didn't choose those images based on being LDS artists, actually I didn't choose them for any particular reason other than being judo-christian themed but those facts are interesting.
I know that. I am Mormon, so I just love to point out Mormon things. That is all. :)