Thread has been so strange in this last page I keep forgetting that I’m supposed to be in Poita’s thread…
are you playing that for laughs, or are you insulting me?
Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:
Not sure if serious.
My reaction to captainsolo’s review.
Actually, it was very well put.
amazing, every single word you just said is wrong
Cute, but nah.
chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.
and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::
Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).
Not sure if I understand. Are you saying I (and the minority who feels the same way) just don’t want new Star Wars films? If so, what are you basing this on?
Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:
Not sure if serious.
My reaction to captainsolo’s review.
Actually, it was very well put.
amazing, every single word you just said is wrong
Cute, but nah.
chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.
and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::
Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).
Well, I think it’s actually quite a challenge to find a story beat, that isn’t in some way derived from the OT. It usually either does more or less the same, or the opposite. If it was really a new story, it wouldn’t depend completely on OT events.
Yeah, i am saying it seems like people don’t want new star wars films, based on the fact that i completely fail to understand what people want. You can tell me that it is too derivative, or to similar, or didn’t do this or that. but i really have never understood what you or those other people would actually want to see.
So of course, i know that those who say these things often make claims about what they want. But despite this, i really don’t believe that they actually know what they want. Sure, that is me being a bit judgmental, but that is the truth about how it strikes me.
[facepalm]
Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:
Not sure if serious.
My reaction to captainsolo’s review.
Actually, it was very well put.
amazing, every single word you just said is wrong
Cute, but nah.
chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.
and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::
Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).
Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:
Not sure if serious.
My reaction to captainsolo’s review.
Actually, it was very well put.
amazing, every single word you just said is wrong
A nice spoiler chat with Rian
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-star-wars-last-jedi-spoilers-20171218-htmlstory.html
thanks for the share. i just wish that was a longer chat!
lol
i haven’t watched this clip either
Gareth Edwards mentioned seeing one while making Rogue one
If for no other reason than the title of the article.
https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-list-of-some-of-the-times-the-last-jedi-told-the-olde-1821396631
A List Of Some Of The Times The Last Jedi Told The Older Star Wars Movies To Eat Shit
But also because it’s a good list…and it’s a good (partial) list of things I liked about TLJ.
i love that last bullet point
Adywan isn’t a system, he’s a man!
DrDre said:
Yeah, but the thing that bugs me is, that he didn’t help those friends for many years, and just sat on a rock waiting to die. Even the death of his best friend and the fact that his sister was in a coma didn’t change his mind. You speak of cheap tricks, but isn’t it much more cheap to prop up Rey by having her beat Luke in a short battle with sticks? She get’s the better of him, and could have lopped his head of with the lightsaber, if she wasn’t one of the good guys. Jedi Master Luke get’s beaten by a girl, who up till a few days earlier believed he was the stuff of legends. Shouldn’t such blatant disregard for the established in-universe rules bug you just a little bit? Yoda once said: a Jedi must have the most serious mind, the deepest commitment. Does this film do that line justice? It took Luke an entire training sequence to learn how to lift a few rocks with his mind, and we’re supposed to accept that Rey can move tons of rocks to free our heroes easier than Yoda can lift an X-wing out of the water? Are we now supposed to believe Luke could have gotten three basic lessons in the Force (of which only one actually involved the Force), and then beat Darth Vader in a fight, because that’s more or less what happens in this movie.In my response to this, see this more as me playing Devil’s advocate, because in a weird sense, as you can read earlier in this thread, I had a change of perspective. Still, however, I totally get your side if that makes sense. But again, playing Devil’s Advocate:
When you mention Luke did nothing when Han died or when Leia was in a coma, well Luke had cut himself off from the Force, so he couldn’t had felt any disturbances in the Force to know of these events. BUT as Luke allows himself to open up to the Force again, he does reconnect to Leia, as shown when Leia whispers “Luke” in her coma. Arguably, this does encourage Luke to take action again. He made the effort to communicate with Leia at end as well.
Of course, if I’m in your shoes, then I’m wondering why did he give up to begin with? As you mentioned Yoda’s line, about the commitment of the Jedi ways and serving justice, well, this stuff is coming from a grand Jedi Master that also did nothing for ~20 years, and it’s not like he was waiting for the “right” time (though I sorta think Obi-Wan watching Luke on Tatooine was his “wait for the right time” plan) given how Yoda flat out refuses to train Luke. Even beyond the exile of Yoda, both Yoda and Obi-Wan were telling Luke to confront Vader in ROTJ because they both lose faith in redeeming Vader. So it was up to Luke, their pupil, to show them otherwise, that yes, Luke was right all along that there was still good in Vader.
In your shoes again, you’re saying, "But him confronting Vader SHOULD had been a defining lesson in his career that should had prevented the Kylo Ren!"
Now, again, in a way weird way, I’m on your side on this, but for once, I can also see the other side to the argument and point being made. The legend of Luke is cemented in history. Luke is the savior of the galaxy because he destroyed Vader/the Emperor and the clutches of the Empire. Living up to this iconic status I imagine came with a lot of stress and responsibility. In a way, both Obi-Wan and Yoda were cowards because they passed on the burden of saving the galaxy to Luke because they didn’t have to deal with the stress and responsibility themselves. So years later into Luke trying to craft a Jedi Order, is essentially trying to do it from scratch. This is actually a huge challenge because he has to teach a new generation of students. How do you craft a Jedi Order that doesn’t falter the like previous one but also utilizes Luke’s personal ideologies? Luke may had been trained to be a Jedi, but that doesn’t mean he was trained to be a teacher. He was going about this alone, probably because Obi-Wan and Yoda could only help so much due to how Luke has his own unique perception of the Force that tries to move beyond the old dogmatic ways his previous masters were used to.
Now, we’ve got Ben Solo who is tainted by the dark side. This one person would probably bring destruction to his academy and bring much pain to his friends, like Han Solo. Luke just fucking snapped. Maybe he saw the future of his friends in pain again, and couldn’t bear to go through that again like he did in ESB. So for a fleeting moment, he didn’t want that to happen, but of course the real Luke regrets even thinking like that. Though this was Luke’s error. He was afraid of mistakes. Afraid of failure. Afraid of letting down the history of the Jedi if this one single person could destroy it all.
At this point, when Kylo Ren is made, Luke’s hopes and aspirations were crushed. A broken person that had little support safety nets to fall on. Sure, Leia and Han were there, but they can only understand so much. Luke was alone. Luke couldn’t be the Jedi for the future generation. He could be the Jedi that removed a huge threat to the galaxy, but rebuilding is much more difficult to achieve than destroying is.If this sounds like mental gymnastics, it probably is. Merely, however, offering this perspective as someone that totally gets your side. I’m not even trying to imply I’m in the “right” here, as I need to see this film a few more times to really digest it all, so me playing Devil’s Advocate is just that, me trying to process it.
Didn’t reply to other points as I felt this long enough, but hopefully it sorta answers your last point about Rey.
Good points! I can see what you mean. I think it would have helped if we had seen more of how Luke got to the point where we see him in Kylo’s room, his loneliness, his self doubt, and Kylo’s struggles with Luke, his parents, and the dark side. As it is now, the film just asks the viewer to accept, that the Luke you know is gone, he’s changed, and o yeah, here’s a very very short scene that depicts him instinctively thinking of killing his nephew. I’m sure you can figure out the details. Good luck!
Yeah, I’m sure the filmmakers were that flippant about this. That’s why they showed the flashback with no context, no narration, no buildup from the previous film, no showing that Luke’s fears were realized despite/because-of his failure, no discussion of his fear of failure, and no one teaching him the value of failure.
Come on, the film makes a point of the fact that it was Luke himself who pushed Kylo over the edge, so he was partly to blame for the fact that those fears were realized. However, they did this in a single 30 sec scene, where they showed three different perspectives, Luke’s initial lie, Kylo’s perspective, and Luke’s revised version. The film ultimately spends more time showing us how the truth depends on your point of view, than actually showing us what made the young Kylo so dangerous, that Luke ignited his lighsaber.
eh, i respectfully disagree. I think perhaps what you are experiencing is the fact that not everything works for 100% of the audience.
You disagree with what? It wasn’t a very short scene? Did they show us anything about young Ben Solo before he became Kylo Ren? Didn’t we get three different versions of the story, time that could have been spent further developing the backstory of Luke/Ben/Snoke? How about all the time spent following Finn and Rose on a pointless mission. Could that entire arc not have been removed to better develop the Luke/Ben/Snoke backstory?
i specifically meant this: “The film ultimately spends more time showing us how the truth depends on your point of view, than actually showing us what made the young Kylo so dangerous, that Luke ignited his lighsaber.”
but i also disagree about a few of those other things i suppose 😃
DrDre said:
Yeah, but the thing that bugs me is, that he didn’t help those friends for many years, and just sat on a rock waiting to die. Even the death of his best friend and the fact that his sister was in a coma didn’t change his mind. You speak of cheap tricks, but isn’t it much more cheap to prop up Rey by having her beat Luke in a short battle with sticks? She get’s the better of him, and could have lopped his head of with the lightsaber, if she wasn’t one of the good guys. Jedi Master Luke get’s beaten by a girl, who up till a few days earlier believed he was the stuff of legends. Shouldn’t such blatant disregard for the established in-universe rules bug you just a little bit? Yoda once said: a Jedi must have the most serious mind, the deepest commitment. Does this film do that line justice? It took Luke an entire training sequence to learn how to lift a few rocks with his mind, and we’re supposed to accept that Rey can move tons of rocks to free our heroes easier than Yoda can lift an X-wing out of the water? Are we now supposed to believe Luke could have gotten three basic lessons in the Force (of which only one actually involved the Force), and then beat Darth Vader in a fight, because that’s more or less what happens in this movie.In my response to this, see this more as me playing Devil’s advocate, because in a weird sense, as you can read earlier in this thread, I had a change of perspective. Still, however, I totally get your side if that makes sense. But again, playing Devil’s Advocate:
When you mention Luke did nothing when Han died or when Leia was in a coma, well Luke had cut himself off from the Force, so he couldn’t had felt any disturbances in the Force to know of these events. BUT as Luke allows himself to open up to the Force again, he does reconnect to Leia, as shown when Leia whispers “Luke” in her coma. Arguably, this does encourage Luke to take action again. He made the effort to communicate with Leia at end as well.
Of course, if I’m in your shoes, then I’m wondering why did he give up to begin with? As you mentioned Yoda’s line, about the commitment of the Jedi ways and serving justice, well, this stuff is coming from a grand Jedi Master that also did nothing for ~20 years, and it’s not like he was waiting for the “right” time (though I sorta think Obi-Wan watching Luke on Tatooine was his “wait for the right time” plan) given how Yoda flat out refuses to train Luke. Even beyond the exile of Yoda, both Yoda and Obi-Wan were telling Luke to confront Vader in ROTJ because they both lose faith in redeeming Vader. So it was up to Luke, their pupil, to show them otherwise, that yes, Luke was right all along that there was still good in Vader.
In your shoes again, you’re saying, "But him confronting Vader SHOULD had been a defining lesson in his career that should had prevented the Kylo Ren!"
Now, again, in a way weird way, I’m on your side on this, but for once, I can also see the other side to the argument and point being made. The legend of Luke is cemented in history. Luke is the savior of the galaxy because he destroyed Vader/the Emperor and the clutches of the Empire. Living up to this iconic status I imagine came with a lot of stress and responsibility. In a way, both Obi-Wan and Yoda were cowards because they passed on the burden of saving the galaxy to Luke because they didn’t have to deal with the stress and responsibility themselves. So years later into Luke trying to craft a Jedi Order, is essentially trying to do it from scratch. This is actually a huge challenge because he has to teach a new generation of students. How do you craft a Jedi Order that doesn’t falter the like previous one but also utilizes Luke’s personal ideologies? Luke may had been trained to be a Jedi, but that doesn’t mean he was trained to be a teacher. He was going about this alone, probably because Obi-Wan and Yoda could only help so much due to how Luke has his own unique perception of the Force that tries to move beyond the old dogmatic ways his previous masters were used to.
Now, we’ve got Ben Solo who is tainted by the dark side. This one person would probably bring destruction to his academy and bring much pain to his friends, like Han Solo. Luke just fucking snapped. Maybe he saw the future of his friends in pain again, and couldn’t bear to go through that again like he did in ESB. So for a fleeting moment, he didn’t want that to happen, but of course the real Luke regrets even thinking like that. Though this was Luke’s error. He was afraid of mistakes. Afraid of failure. Afraid of letting down the history of the Jedi if this one single person could destroy it all.
At this point, when Kylo Ren is made, Luke’s hopes and aspirations were crushed. A broken person that had little support safety nets to fall on. Sure, Leia and Han were there, but they can only understand so much. Luke was alone. Luke couldn’t be the Jedi for the future generation. He could be the Jedi that removed a huge threat to the galaxy, but rebuilding is much more difficult to achieve than destroying is.If this sounds like mental gymnastics, it probably is. Merely, however, offering this perspective as someone that totally gets your side. I’m not even trying to imply I’m in the “right” here, as I need to see this film a few more times to really digest it all, so me playing Devil’s Advocate is just that, me trying to process it.
Didn’t reply to other points as I felt this long enough, but hopefully it sorta answers your last point about Rey.
Good points! I can see what you mean. I think it would have helped if we had seen more of how Luke got to the point where we see him in Kylo’s room, his loneliness, his self doubt, and Kylo’s struggles with Luke, his parents, and the dark side. As it is now, the film just asks the viewer to accept, that the Luke you know is gone, he’s changed, and o yeah, here’s a very very short scene that depicts him instinctively thinking of killing his nephew. I’m sure you can figure out the details. Good luck!
Yeah, I’m sure the filmmakers were that flippant about this. That’s why they showed the flashback with no context, no narration, no buildup from the previous film, no showing that Luke’s fears were realized despite/because-of his failure, no discussion of his fear of failure, and no one teaching him the value of failure.
Come on, the film makes a point of the fact that it was Luke himself who pushed Kylo over the edge, so he was partly to blame for the fact that those fears were realized. However, they did this in a single 30 sec scene, where they showed three different perspectives, Luke’s initial lie, Kylo’s perspective, and Luke’s revised version. The film ultimately spends more time showing us how the truth depends on your point of view, than actually showing us what made the young Kylo so dangerous, that Luke ignited his lighsaber.
eh, i respectfully disagree. I think perhaps what you are experiencing is the fact that not everything works for 100% of the audience.
Thread has been so strange in this last page I keep forgetting that I’m supposed to be in Poita’s thread…
FWIW, that Yoda thing was one of my favorite things in the whole film once I figured it out. I didn’t think it was actually contradictory, just some classic “certain point of view” Jedi Master trolling that got Luke to snap out of his funk and focus on what was important in that moment. Of course Yoda doesn’t actually advocate burning books.
See the truth, joefavs does.
nvrmnd
Mark’s Down On Your Syntax said:
Yeesh, I can’t stand it no more - I’m going away until the trolls have dispersed. There seems to be so many of them this season. I’ll definitely be back though, I love the “normal” members of this site! Do try and be nice to one another 😃
don’t stay away that long! the trolls probably won’t leave till august!!!
NEW LINKS coming friday! The Last Jedi added.
How? It isn’t available on DVD or Blu-ray yet.
Just wait till you hear how many years it took
The Disney Trilogy would be so much better if Po was killed off in the opening scenes of TFA as they originally planned.
Poe is a great character so I disagree. However I didn’t call myself SAVEPOE so you probably feel stronger about it than I do.
I actually think we could have done without Poe in TFA. But I feel like his character finally makes sense now in TLJ.
Wrecked my car today. Entirely my fault, of course.
oh damn! that sucks, hope you and anyone else are OK. i guess that puts you out of a car… which probably also sucks.
Yeah, the whole astral projection “duel” was exactly the kind of badass Jedi Master Luke stuff I wanted to see. I was very satisfied with that. Until, you know, it killed him, but I made peace with that on my second viewing.
so, luke kicked astral?
Speaking of other message boards, I just read this on another one, and it’s spot on.
All this discussion and posting really shows the tough part about working on franchises like this - I doubt there was nearly this much discussion, theorizing and fanboying for the original trilogy. It was fresh and there was no internet, not to mention no years of backstories, extended universe and ages for people to decide what Star Wars was to them. I don’t think you could ever make a perfect movie now for it that will satisfy everyone or even most people - again that’s why I respect Rian for doing what he did in this film.
This is why I originally felt that the original main characters like Luke, Leia, and Han shouldn’t be in the new trilogy.
But then I thought about it and changed my mind as I was expecting to have a badass all powerful Luke Skywalker. I figured it’d be worth the risk to be able to see a Luke kicking ass. But then we didn’t even get that. Oh well.
I doubt two years ago people would have said they wanted a Luke Skywalker who was living like a hermit in isolation and doesn’t really do anything in the movie as far as Jedi battles go, etc.
Oh, i think Luke was quite kick-ass in this.
Looks like there is a thread for that so let me pose the question in a different way - “what was your least favourite scene or sequence in the film?”
Anyone can answer, and could be interesting to hear specific answers as many criticisms are broad ones.
For me, as much as I like BB8 I would happily say goodbye to the monocle alien feeding him coins and then the pay off scene of firing them at the guard. Also BB8 again, driving the Scout Walker didn’t work for me.
I’ve only seen it once. But my least favorite scene is Luke throwing his lightsaber behind his back in that joking manor. That’s the worst.
He wasn’t joking.
also, no houses back there.
One of my favourites:
Kylo’s look when Hux repeats his order in his typical over the top manner during the battle of Crait.
yeah that’s a good one.
i must admit, i expected Kylo to get rid of Hux before the end of the movie.
so forgetting everything else about this film for a second, i just have to say:
one of my absolute favorite shots in this film is kylo ren slashing a red ‘blood spatter’ slash through the salt with his feet after his running attack on Luke. beautiful.
thoughts and prayers to all affected.
