dahmage

chyron8472 said:

yhwx said:

Handman said:

I don’t understand why we have two Last Jedi discussion threads?

One was created for discussion before the movie was released; the other was created after the movie was released. Not really needed to delete this one, since there’s plenty of good discussion here.

Also, technically one is for discussion and the other is for review.
But I think the key difference at this point is that the review thread is toxic, and the discussion thread is not (yet.)

also technically we have lots of duplicate threads.

TV’s Frink said:

I was human when i started, now i’m 40% silicone

WISHS

TV’s Frink said:

I was human when i started, now i’m 40% silicon

Bingowings said:

I was 39 when I started. Now I’m 47

chyron8472 said:

I dislike how many liberally minded people whom I have seen, claim to proudly carry the banner of tolerance but have a hypocritically sanctimonious attitude. As though their self-righteousness is somehow superior to the opposing self-righteousness that they rail against. It’s bigoted on both sides, but I feel the banner of “tolerance” some carry to be disingenuous and it’s bothered me more and more lately. Speaking for myself, of course.

In fact, I’m feeling more and more like people just in general are often bigoted. People who disagree with each other, on moral, philosophical or even political views are often extremely bigoted and closed-minded, thinking themselves somehow superior because they hold their views to be correct. And it’s compounded by the echo chambers we allow ourselves to live in with the availablity of social media that allows more like-minded bigoted people to congregate and validate each other.

is there a question for _ender in there somewhere?

ExNihilo said:

dahmage said:

ExNihilo said:

NeverarGreat said:

I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

I definitely got the impression that this was it, their last chance, and just maybe this will work.

And if that is the case (which is how I read it) then Rose’s act was pretty selfish and shortsighted.

Anchorhead mentioned the (awesome) Patton quote but there is not a good chance of convincing me that it was intended to channel that. It works for him though.

I don’t agree with how you interpreted their chances. but going along with your thinking for now… Why aren’t you pissed at Poe then since he called off ‘their only chance of wining’ ?

Who said I wasn’t?

well no one seems to blame Poe, they blame Rose. Can you see why this seems odd?

ExNihilo said:

NeverarGreat said:

I bet the difference of opinion that people have over Rose saving Finn largely comes down to whether they believe that there was a chance of Finn disabling the gun.

Those who viewed it as a sacrifice with a chance of disabling the weapon probably have issues with Rose. Those that viewed it as a pointless attack with no chance of disabling the weapon are probably okay with Rose, since she prevented a senseless waste of life.

I’m torn on it. I don’t think it’s well communicated that his attack would have no effect, only that it’s a suicide mission.

I definitely got the impression that this was it, their last chance, and just maybe this will work.

And if that is the case (which is how I read it) then Rose’s act was pretty selfish and shortsighted.

Anchorhead mentioned the (awesome) Patton quote but there is not a good chance of convincing me that it was intended to channel that. It works for him though.

I don’t agree with how you interpreted their chances. but going along with your thinking for now… Why aren’t you pissed at Poe then since he called off ‘their only chance of wining’ ?

I am in the same boat.

Valheru_84 said:

I’d also like to point out that the movie completely ignores the fact that there is logically no way for her to catch and pass Finn (after having turned back earlier) in order for her to distinctly come from the side and smash him out of the way (on top of the mysteriously absent walker fire).

.Val

LOL. um. If you rewatch this, you will notice that flying in the ‘eye’ of the cannon slows Finn down quite a bit. I have no idea why he is flying in there, but he is. And is SLOWS HIM DOWN. therefore it is possible. I have no idea why the walkers stopped firing though.

Again, either enjoy the film, or don’t. but these nitpicks shouldn’t sway you one way or another.

Best wishes to Bingo and coffee. You are both wonderful people, and i can tell that without knowing you very well yet. 😃

DominicCobb said:

By the way, had my 4th viewing this morning. IMAX 2D. Never seen laser projection before, and boy did it deliver (see it this way if you can).

Also was in the Chinese Theater (one of the biggest IMAX screens in the world), would recommend.

Ah nuts. I really want to see this with lasers.

Ok, so then what is the problem with Rose? I am confused what remaining complaints there might be.

Mielr said:

dahmage said:

Lando was just a cool guy who ran a city and sold out our friends.

Yeah, and that’s a pretty damn important part of the plot!

I know, the point I am trying to make is that he has the exact plot enabling role as Rose (see Dom’s posts). Ok not exact, as Rose probably has even more plot enablement.

So considering that a tie between Rose and Lando, I will use my personal preference to pick Rose as more interesting. Less cool probably though, I am sure most of us thought Lando was a pretty hep cat. (Am I saying that right?)

yotsuya said:

I don’t care if you like or dislike anything, but please put some thought and logic into your arguments. We aren’t going to agree, but we can have a great conversation (and I think we have been).

I appreciate your posts.

Mielr said:

dahmage said:

Mrebo said:

dahmage said:

Mielr said:

dahmage said:

Rose is a better character than Lando was. Barely. But still.

Seriously? Lando was a pretty pivotal character and really set all the events in motion for the 2nd half of the movie. He partnered with Vader to trap Luke and in the process got Han nearly killed and shipped off to Jabba (remember?)

No Lando: no cloud city, no luke/vader duel (no “I am your father”), no carbonite, no Jabba, no reason for rotj basically.

What exactly did Rose do that was so important (besides setting free horse-llama things and preventing Finn from committing an act of selflessness)?

They could have easily had all those events happen without Lando I am sure.

You can find a way to remove any character. But Lando added quite a lot and was integral in many ways. I don’t think it helpful to argue otherwise. I am curious how you view Rose.

I view Rose as an interesting character. She represents more of the working class of the resistance, if you will. I appreciated a character like that. I don’t think it helpful to argue that she served no purpose. That is why I compared her to Lando.

Lando was “working class” too. He went from being a gambler to administrator of a city. Luke and Han were also “working class.” Star Wars is full of working class heroes, but they also have reasons to be there. You can’t cut Han or Lando out of the movies and not have it affect the trajectory of the stories. Rose could be cut because she was mostly involved in side plots that didn’t amount to anything involving the main story. Which was about running out of fuel. I think.

Eh. Luke Han and Lando were all made generals or whatever by rotj, so I don’t really view them as working class in how I was thinking of it. But who knows, Rose will probably move up in importance too.

For the rest, I disagree, see Dom’s post above. And even if Rose isn’t a “in your face directly making things happen” character, how is that a mark against her character? Certainly not every character can be alphas?

Comparing her to Lando was to make a point.

I did say that she is only barely better than Lando if you recall.

Mrebo said:

dahmage said:

Mielr said:

dahmage said:

Rose is a better character than Lando was. Barely. But still.

Seriously? Lando was a pretty pivotal character and really set all the events in motion for the 2nd half of the movie. He partnered with Vader to trap Luke and in the process got Han nearly killed and shipped off to Jabba (remember?)

No Lando: no cloud city, no luke/vader duel (no “I am your father”), no carbonite, no Jabba, no reason for rotj basically.

What exactly did Rose do that was so important (besides setting free horse-llama things and preventing Finn from committing an act of selflessness)?

They could have easily had all those events happen without Lando I am sure.

You can find a way to remove any character. But Lando added quite a lot and was integral in many ways. I don’t think it helpful to argue otherwise. I am curious how you view Rose.

I view Rose as an interesting character. She represents more of the working class of the resistance, if you will. I appreciated a character like that. I don’t think it helpful to argue that she served no purpose. That is why I compared her to Lando.

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mielr said:

dahmage said:

Rose is a better character than Lando was. Barely. But still.

Seriously? Lando was a pretty pivotal character and really set all the events in motion for the 2nd half of the movie. He partnered with Vader to trap Luke and in the process got Han nearly killed and shipped off to Jabba (remember?)

No Lando: no cloud city, no luke/vader duel (no “I am your father”), no carbonite, no Jabba, no reason for rotj basically.

What exactly did Rose do that was so important (besides setting free horse-llama things and preventing Finn from committing an act of selflessness)?

Most of the movie doesn’t exist without Rose.

Like I said, I thought her character was fine. But I don’t understand what you mean.

Well if you start at the very beginning. Without Rose being there to stop Finn, who would have taken off with the beacon and Rey would have had a hell of a time finding the resistance again…

Mielr said:

dahmage said:

Rose is a better character than Lando was. Barely. But still.

Seriously? Lando was a pretty pivotal character and really set all the events in motion for the 2nd half of the movie. He partnered with Vader to trap Luke and in the process got Han nearly killed and shipped off to Jabba (remember?)

No Lando: no cloud city, no luke/vader duel (no “I am your father”), no carbonite, no Jabba, no reason for rotj basically.

What exactly did Rose do that was so important (besides setting free horse-llama things and preventing Finn from committing an act of selflessness)?

They could have easily had all those events happen without Lando I am sure.

Lando was just a cool guy who ran a city and sold out our friends. Then he shows up again to pilot the falcon in rotj.

DominicCobb said:

Poe called off the attack specifically because the ram was charging up. It’s pretty obvious it was too late.

Thank you. I thought that was obvious.

Handman said:

IsanRido said:

I don’t know if this has been brought up in previous pages. Doesn’t anyone else find it bothersome that Rose doesn’t utter a word of complaint to Poe for getting her sister killed?

Huh. Good point. I guess what’s done is done and she’s more concerned with keeping everybody else alive.

Not sure that is a good point. We never see rose thinking that her sister dies in vain.

ChainsawAsh said:

Because she’s in love with him after knowing him for all of 16 hours.

Love/infatuation/crushes totally work like that though…

Collipso said:

Handman said:

IsanRido said:

I don’t know if this has been brought up in previous pages. Doesn’t anyone else find it bothersome that Rose doesn’t utter a word of complaint to Poe for getting her sister killed?

Huh. Good point. I guess what’s done is done and she’s more concerned with keeping everybody else alive.

If so, why would she stop Finn from saving everyone?

You know, she saved him from killing himself in a move that wouldn’t have saved anyone if he went through with it… It was too late to destroy the cannon. But Finn was stuck in hero mode and was about to die trying anyway.

Rose is a better character than Lando was. Barely. But still.

Zzz