captainsolo

It's odd that on the 1991 WS LD of Jaws, some effects and dialogue are emphasized differently...this along with the alternate music inserted to avoid paying rights makes me wonder if there was some general tweaking done on the mono audio.

Sky, I've tried to find the Bullitt mono track for some time. Other than Beta or possible CED, we might have to go to a 16mm source. The current audio is derived from the LD track, a stereo-ized matrixed surround track that has no defined source. I have never seen anything other than mono for the film, as it was not a major event picture for 1968 and was not afforded anything other than a mono track.

Dirty Harry is stereoized or 5.1 on nearly everything.

Definitely second the edp800. I got mine at Goodwill for $10 just because it had the ac3rf jack and I had a secret hope it meant what I thought it might.

Works like a charm.

One I just realized: Gladiator was 6.1 DTS in theaters and is only 5.1 on DVD and BD. The Signature DVD retained the Dolby EX and DTS ES, but I don't have a copy and lack a 6.1 capable system to test.

I agree with HH that many times the mixes are the same, but what seems to happen frequently is that new EQ is added or compression is added somewhere in the work chain.

I'll have to do a full comparison of Batman audio in audacity. Forever sounds different in every mix, and more and more I find myself preferring the 4channel matrix.

I always heard the missing lint shot was just an error. I'll have to check mine out.

These are all LD masters, same print defects, same slightly tweaked video levels for older CRTs; the DVDs just give you a better quality video presentation.

The first film needs a capture badly as none of the remixes touch it. In fact, it would be possible to make a 5.1 recreated 70mm mix because I'm pretty sure the audio was the same. (4 channel with baby booms)

Returns is the same mix in 5.1 and DS. However the emphasis and soundstaging is very different. The 5.1 utilizes the discrete channels to good effect, but the DS is much more centralized and gives a better sense of low end, as is the case with Batman Forever's 5.1 vs. DS. Additionally 99.9% of people heard Dolby Stereo theatrically as only 11 theaters were equipped to show Dolby SR-D 5.1 at the time. Judging sonically, they really mixed for Dolby Stereo before getting the go-ahead for a 5.1 mix.

Interesting about the AFI print screening. It would be nice to know if the print shown of MM was US edited or the Auzzie original. The only downside of the first film's BD transfer is that it lacks a lossless Australian mono track. That has never been released anywhere in higher quality, and would have to be sourced off of a print for us.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

I've done a fast test with ColourLikeRGB, making the histograms every 1000 frames (last time I used it on YV12, I made every one frame).

Well, I don't know if it's because I wrote the histograms every 1000 frames, or if I've done something wrong with the script, or with my PC... but here you are the result - not really different from the ColourLike I've used until now:

This shows off the particulars of the DVD's color, and what is presumably the 35mm/method of shooting. The BD opts for contrast boosts and slathering everything in that fake green. This color correction fixes this but results in an image that is rather flat. The DVD has a uniform greenish-yellow cast to all the in-Matrix skintones, and a unique look to everything else in and out of the Matrix. This is lost on the SEDVD/BD and isn't visible in the attempted color rendering.

I'm thinking that certain filters were used to influence the film as shot, depending on whether the scene was in and out of the Matrix--and then timed deliberately further in post to create an effect similar and IMO far more effective than the green of the sequels.

35mm cells would really help, but the VHS looks the same as well.

The best evidence was provided by the original cinematographer on the commentary track IIRC. He talked of having to go to the film lab multiple times to push the colors to get that more saturated look of the desert. That is the intended look reflected on the 35mm theatrical prints, the VHS, LD and DVD issue from a print sourced master. That used a US print under the RW title and slightly edited. The BD uses what is presumably a fresh HD scan of the Australian master, hence the uncut film and MM2 title card. It also is the master so it lacks the intended color timing, making it yet another film misrepresented in HD due to using camera negatives and not replicating theatrical color timing.

It's that simple, people don't do their homework, nor do they care to. The BD version looks horridly wrong, I had hoped the revisit would address it, but it didn't. Even Thunderdome got it right!

Shouldn't be an issue. The big difference between the tracks will be in mastering and cleanup. The DTS track is somewhat compressed and will likely be EQ'd, scrubbed for a "cleaner" track but removes fine details and likely dynamic range as well. This is how the Jaws mono seems on both DVD and the BD's DTS version.

bkev said:

So was Diamonds are Forever for about 5 minutes :P

Including the single-worst fight in the entire series. ;)

You can make up any continuity you want, but when the producers started choosing stories at random in the 60's, any and all notion of order went out the window. The character is basically the same, just affected by the time of production and the tone desired.

But why was the DB5 in Skyfail you ask? How does it make sense?

It doesn't. Someone must have thought it would be a cool and immediately recognizable moment and not thought about the implications.

This is looking really good guys. I always kept my DVD and refused to buy into the screwy BD version. If we can manage to get the green out, then address the contrast, all that remains is the overall DVD color which is more of a dull red/yellow and may not be accurate. It's an older master for LD/early DVD and many of these had altered or differing color timings. (Blade Runner, The Wild Bunch etc.)

Batman Forever is like the others, same video master, but with the same 5.1 theatrical mix as the ac3 track. That being said I did notice an slight overall difference A/B-ing between the two. The LD is noticeably punchier and has greater bass whereas the DVD version seems a tiny bit constrained as if it had been tweaked for the home.

Love this mix, very straightforward with some of the clearest mono dialog ever. Inf act it's too clear as all of the pronunciations are enhanced as is the ADR so it feels almost exasperated from the mix at times. Another reason why the Dolby Surround version is almost as good if not better.

I felt like something cheery....then pulled out Danny Elfman's Batman Returns score. Oh well.

Anchorhead said:

Tried to give Silver Linings Playbook a watch a few days ago and had to bail after about 30 minutes.  I hate shaky-cam documentary-style camera work.  If you want me to watch your story, don't make me work to follow it around the screen.  It's annoying to me and lazy on the part of the director.

I'll hazard a guess that you didn't like Man of Steel then? ;)

The Fast and the Furious

A good little movie that's very very light on story, but for some reason spawned five and soon six sequels. Great soundmix though, and since it's 12 years old now-fantastic to see an action film not have any shakycam!

2.5 balls out of four badly underwritten characters.

On the inversion issue it may be as simple as old school noise reduction. Especially with mono audio it was a common practice to simply invert the track in order to cut down on inherent noise, some people still do this when capturing mono vinyl records.

Yep, that'd be me. ;)

Nice work, I wouldn't at all be surprised about the processing in 1998 since the others were done this way for their first DVD issues, and the EQ/noise reduction removes noise but sadly some atmospherics and dynamic range to go with it.

I'll have to check those spots for changeover cues. I'll admit I didn't notice the slight edits to the opening, are they rather large?

Never noticed the DVD omission...how many tweaks and edits are there in Leone video editions? ;) Good luck with your edit.

After direct comparison of the 1993 box set and 1998 LD and 1998 DVD, I'm almost 100% sure that the overall source is the same. The damage marks are in the same places, albeit a bit cleaned up on the 1998 version along with less video noise. (Like the Fistful print was cleaned up for the 1st DVD vs. the Laserdisc) The mono audio is the exact same track with the same dropouts in the same places.

Damage example to check is lines running through the print when Tuco staggers back into town from being abandoned in the desert.

Audio dropout example to check are blips in the first master shot of the final duel, in the rising trumpets.

Can you say where the reel change marks are? I didn't see any, but am only spot checking the '93 disc. It also doesn't seem to be cropped like many say the regular letterbox version was.

What I'd really like to do is restore the International version and then the Italian release version with the current HD versions, which would only leave the grotto scene (for an extra or to make the premiere version), "Sorry Tuco", English final line shot and International edit of the Tuco torture sequence to be sourced from the dnr MGM source.

EyeShotFirst said:

What kills modern Bond films starting with The World Is Not Enough, is how M based they are. Not saying it should stay with one mold, but come on, I start to nod off when ever Bond is in MI6.

That's just my opinion.

Thank Purvis & Wade. TWINE to present.

The difference between TLD and LTK is simple.

TLD is more Richard Maibaum's writing, and due to a Guild strike LTK is more Producer/co-writer Michael G. Wilson's writing. Additionally there were major budget cuts on LTK.

Wow, the THX SE CLV LD is an impressive track, I had no idea it was completely redone from the ground up.

Digging into the LD versions recently has gotten all this rushing back. Glad to hear that the German FAFDM is uncut with Enlish mono.

The LD mono for all three is wonderful, relatively clean and unfiltered like the DVD/BDs, sounding exactly like the 35mm prints both vintage and restored.

So in order to do this correctly,

AFOD-Italian restoration uses original Techniscope negative, MGM had Triage labs scan their best source as they don't hold the rights, which resulted in a differently colored and framed transfer. Best english audio still on LD, ufiltered.

FAFDM-MGM had access to o-neg which was scanned by Triage, German source uses this but adds cut scenes. The LD audio is great but sadly censored. The film is edited all over the place for some unknown reason.

GBU-Italian Mondo disc from the Italian restoration from correct elements. But we'd have to perform some edits to the Italian cut in order to match the English audio which would be sourced from LD, where it is lossless and unfiltered. In order to reform the Italian release version the cut scenes could have the Italian mono dropped in with the English subtitles. The grotto scene is an extra.

I'm almost positive the print source for the old MGM LDs and DVD is what Triage used to drop in and spot check color timing for the SE cut. It is most likely the IP for the international cut as the initial releases have Italian on-screen captions which were simply excised and replaced with US ones in later releases.

I still get confused on the intended edits for OUATITW vs. the restored 165 min cut.

As far as DYS is concerned, if we could drop in the remastered LD mono track, all that remains to do is find a good source for the final flashback with correct music. The LD mono is like the Dollars films, untouched, unfiltered and far more dynamic than you'd think.

Is it just me or did the SE DVD of DYS appear to be timed a bit incorrectly?

Dark City is a great forgotten movie that really plays with your head. I never really minded the Theatrical cut, and though the Director's Cut is better it has far too many CGI tweaks and a different color timing.

Mask of the Phantasm

Disc review: http://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2966 

In short; matted theatrical widescreen, full CAV, greatly improved sound fidelity over puny ac3.

All equals: :D

This is looking wonderful for both films guys. Thanks again for all your hard work in piecing this together.

The pink in T2 comes form the earlier video masters. It popped up in many many many late 80's/early 90's releases for some odd reason. It is not ANYWHERE in the film as shot, as I saw an original print a few years ago that looked perfectly natural and not at all pink.

dvdmike said:

No it was always the special edition, Cameron had final cut the directors cut was the theatrical version the laserdisc confirms this

I only have the extended LD, and after reading the letter and comparing the two cuts, it feels like all the dropped scenes were merely due to pacing or to slim the film by a few minutes here or there. That being said, almost all the cuts made are ill-advised since what was removed were moments of character building. Most but not all.

Does anyone know how the theatrical LD audio compares to the SE LD audio? I know the extended cut was put together in house by THX, but what I don't know is how the audio was handled. It's easily the best, richest and most detailed Dolby Stereo track I've ever heard. (Managing to top even Batman and Temple of Doom)

I would not be at all surprised if the 5.1 track was merely a cleaned up and newly EQ'd version of the old 5.1 done for the DVD. Probably pretty good, but lacking in the low end and ambiance of the original mix.

BTW, I've found that for many 80's action films that did have a 70mm blowup that the 4 channel mix was the same for both 35 and 70mm releases, minus of course discrete channels and the extra punch of baby booms, and on some occasions that the 35mm matrixed version sounds just as good if not better.

The Dollars trilogy on LD has the original English dub audio WITHOUT all the noise reduction and severe EQ that severely cut the atmospherics and detail.

They sound as good as vintage prints but clearer due to a proper transfer and not being degraded optical tracks. There is some intrinsic noise to the sources here and there, but it is beyond putting up with due to the uncut dynamic range. Even the Morricone scores play generally without distortion!

The only downside is that FAFDM is cut in little bits all over the place. The new German uncut BD is supposed to have the English dub in DTS. GBU is overmatted and uses some kind of Italian-US hybrid source. I've got the rarer reissue and will do a comparison later.

Batman is a Pioneer disc, same in US and Japan. It uses the old video master, which was brightened a bit for CRTs of the era from the dark theatrical prints.

PAL comparison gives an idea of the depth restored on SEDVD/BD but at the cost of color.

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/vergleich.php?vergleichID=468

The audio is the original Dolby Stereo (70mm was the same mix in 4 channel discrete w/2 baby booms), and easily the best release for audio. I listen to this track regularly, as it destroys all the 5.1 remixes.

...I really need a good way to start making audio captures...have way too many great sounding LD tracks...

Last Crusade is extremely detailed and well mixed for the 35mm Dolby version on LD. Sounds far more natural than the redone 5.1 DVD track, plus like the others it maintains the original dialogue panning and sound design.

Reference.

BTW, Temple on LD is now one of my all time top home audio tracks. THAT good. Seriously.