captainsolo

A movie that if I can put my baggage aside, still plays pretty well.

I just wish it was better. And longer. And had a good villain. And was more tightly plotted. And more developed. But I digress. ;)

The LD transfer is like the badass older brother of the old VHS; natural color, slightly washed out analog-ish look,  proper scope framing. It's not as good as the others, but is older by a few years.

The audio again is the reason to own a copy. Despite only being Dolby Stereo, this is a POWERHOUSE of detail. Very extended high end range yet still natural. Satisfying and bests the DVD 5.1 but not quite as fun as Temple. Original panning/sound design intact.

A begrudging 3.5 balls out of 4 for what is there if only suggested. This should have been a better picture.

The Zimmer score is almost nonexistent. (Interestingly the soundtrack release has been encoded with DTS X, a 11 channel surround system designed for regular 2 channel headphone usage.)

And if you simply dropped in the original Williams score, as great as it is...it wouldn't have any real effect.

You know, it wouldn't have been that difficult to have a plot that questioned the idea of Superman in a modern context, while still actually maintaining a sense of both the character and escapist fantasy. But that's a huge no-no in Nolan-world.

Although being heavily shortened, the best "Superman" feeling I've gotten in the recent past was the DCAU dtv release Superman Vs. The Elite. That's a Superman story!

It's not you. They all do sound different.

The theatrical 5.1 ac3 is extremely detailed-especially in the dialogue and ADR. (perhaps too much.) The theatrical Dolby Stereo track (LD PCM) has great midrange and low end but lacks the clarity on the highs in the ac3.

The 5.1 remix on SE DVD/BD is somewhere between the two, but without the detail or range of either, as if it had been cleaned up and remixed to be more polite.

The Dolby Stereo tracks for Raiders and Temple on LD are knockouts. I don't see why the WS LD of Raiders should be remixed, all the effects sound the same as the 5.1, and the panning is wonderful. Additionally the PCM of Temple is so good I may prefer it to the 5.1. I can't remember if Temple and Crusade had their mixes taken from 70mm.

And as we know, the Raiders mix was "sweetened" i.e. remixed with new effects from the ground up by Ben Burtt for the BD release.

This disc is almost reference quality. Toggling between it and the Lowry DVD isn't even too far off. The print source is unbelievably clean with less than 10 print specks throughout the entire feature. Good color, none of the aliasing issues from Raiders, good amount of fine detail....but again it's the audio that's most enthralling.

You know how they always tell you matrixed audio can't beat discrete 5.1?

This comes close. Damn close. Temple is loud, boisterous, dark and isn't afraid to beat your senses into submission. Sure, there are some things buried here and there due to the Dolby matrix process and there may be a few slight variations ala 35 vs 70mm mixes, but it's a really really fun and lively track to listen to. I may even prefer it to the 5.1 simply because it hasn't been digitally scrubbed and EQ'd for DVD.

If you have a LD player, you need this one.

God, I love this movie.

Indeed, I was turned onto Jackie by a double feature of Drunken Master and Snake in the Eagle's Shadow a few years ago. Wonderful movies those, chock full of joy. Police Story I and II are my faves, with the second possibly edging out the first.

Speaking of joy...

Fired this up in the HT tonight. The video transfer as noted on lddb has some aliasing issues, but after tinkering with the TV settings like the good ol' days of VHS it isn't as bad. Color is nice and like the tapes of childhood, somewhere between the DVD and Blu-ray versions.

But of course, the audio is the big draw. And it's easily one that can be cranked loud. Nearly identical to the DVD 5.1 derived from the 70mm audio, this LD features what I'm sure is the original Dolby Stereo mix, as it shares the same inherent defects of matrixed audio vs. discrete channels. Dialogue and effects are both clearer due to a lack of codec compression and a lack of dynamic range compression. However, due to the Dolby matrixing some lines and effects are muddied and somewhat buried in the mix. The DVD has more defined highs and lows obviously.

But for sheer presence, the LD wins, especially in the score and mixing. I love the way the audio will unfold and fold back into mono at the center channel. Instead of general panning across the front there is a general sense of rising through the sides and surround.

BTW, when you have it quite loud, sometimes the trademark punches can be felt. ;)

I've been pretty sure they do, as all the others in the series have, but for some reason that 4 film pack is almost impossible to find in both stores and online. I've only seen one once, before I knew it might be necessary. Before I had to shell out for the set somewhere or the old singles I figured I'd see if Netflix still shipped the old discs, which thankfully they do.

BestBuy has it online for $13 shipped. The BD 4 film version is $19.

Also, the 4 film Lethal Weapon DVD set was the last to have the "Director's Cuts" of 1-3 with footage inserted and not reissued on BD. Additionally those are full bitrate DTS and sound lovely.

Sounds wonderful, hopefully we can give some help to Police Story with that nice BD issue of the Japanese print. Though admittedly the Dragon Dynasty discs of I and II did a nice little cleanup to the washed out Fortune Star masters (unlike the Shout BD).

Just wanted to say that the Anchor Bay issue of ABT II is easily the best version of the film I've ever seen. 16:9 to boot! It's print sourced and an older master, but the intact grain is clear enough with properly cleaned subtitles that aren't garbage. color timing is also correct unlike others and it lacks the combing/repeated frames of the IVL disc. Opening titles are English/Chinese indicating a different print source than Fortune Star/IVL. I assume ABT is the same but I haven't been able to get a copy yet.

I haven't seen the film in years. What exactly is missing from the 1992 LD version?

Here's another I've often wondered about: what about early Warner DVD's which are obviously from a LD master and feature 384 kbp/s Dolby 5.1 audio? We've discussed that many say The Matrix is better on LD at the same bitrate but after recently doing a blind test with the first DD 5.1 theatrical release, Batman Returns, I'm not so sure they are different.

For a long time I wondered what the original 5.1 and Dolby Stereo mixes for Returns would play like. I assume they mixed for the norm of matrixed surround and got the green light for the 5.1 issue (which only played in 11 theaters in North America, so 99% heard the Dolby Stereo mix.) The LD PCM is similar to the first film, a very open soundstage and well mixed non-discrete 4 channels.

After Netflixing the old late 90's DVD, I can confirm it is the same video master and has a 5.1 track @ 384 kbp/s. It has that extra definition so wonderful of LD 5.1 compared to the matrix equivalent, and has the same tonal balance as the PCM Dolby Stereo mix. So I'm almost positive that this is the theatrical 5.1, prepared for a late LD reissue and scrapped in favor of an early DVD.

I checked with the remixed track on the SE DVD/BD which is the same in either DD, DTS or Dolby True HD. For all four of the original films, I'm pretty sure Warner went back to the master in 2005 and did a straight remix to 5.1 for all four films, with all that wonderful limiting for home TVs/soundbars built right in. This is why Batman sounds so damn tinny on anything besides LD. On Returns, none of the later mixes have the depth of the old DVD or LD. Also, all four films are now significantly louder than before, a sign of dynamic range loss.

To confirm this, I will have to get the Forever 1st issue DVD, which I can compare directly with the LD 5.1 audio.

Also, I really really wish films today could be as well mixed and presented as  Returns.  Man of Steel was so completely pathetic in 7.1.

Indeed, it's a cheap disc I've meant to pick up just to hear the original track. There are several discussions of this on the lddb forums.

BTW, here's the Nolan-verse Batman FIXED ENTIRELY. $7.

http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Begins-Dennis-ONeil/dp/0345479467

Reading this novelization written by the creator of Ra's is a textbook on everything the "Dark Knight Trilogy" got horribly wrong.

New Police Story

A surprisingly dark and refreshing break form the usual Jackie Chan performance and tone we're used to. That said, the plot is a bit weak and somewhat dare I say lame. That said, the stunts and setups are well done and the film is overall an effective two hours. Better than PS 4 which was destroyed by its horrible cheapness.

3 balls out of 4. Nice to see Jackie having other acting to do besides stuntwork, comedic pantomime or exasperation.

A new re-boot is coming this year.

Why not just go for broke and actually do an honest Police Story 5?

Check the edited post first.

Yep, the LD uses the continuous version of this logo. I just checked the disc and it segues straight into the UA blue letters as this was the original MGM/UA logo done for the mid to late 80's.

EDIT: I got a bit keyboard tied. The LD uses the MGM Communications into the red bar zooming out blue UA letters, NOT the simple blue text version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7YFG5BYkdE

The VHS version is from the 80's CBS/FOX VHS which has the same logo just with added Fox copyright and the Red Cross disclaimer that is on some video versions and may have been theatrical. For some reason the LD does not have this and is directly print sourced. (not the logos from what I can tell)

TLD would be the film to use this as it was correct for 1987 when this logo was introduced. The silver MGM/UA Communications Co. would only be on TLD and LTK as this lasted from 1987-1990.

AVTAK had the logo which had a line reveal into the UA letters. Octopussy was the last film to have the old MGM/UA Lion logo.

I didn't think the BDs were different from the UEs logo-wise and for legal reasons, all new transfers have the new digital Leo logo with the 2006 or newer variant on the silver UA letters.

http://www.myfilmviews.com/2012/03/15/the-story-behind-the-united-artists-logo/

LALD is fine, it's more likely the older LD transfer you have as many from that era are not the greatest for sound. I have the 1st letterbox release with the digital track dropouts and the errored right digital track that has the isolated score. The sound is perfect save for the dropouts, with better fidelity than my childhood hi-fi VHS tape. It also depends on which VHS release you have, as anything before 1992 with the series is generally not going to sound very good. Also, pan and scan VHS can use a different and inferior master to others. (TSWLM for example.)

The analog and digital tracks are the same on the letterbox series, except FRWL which has an isolated music and effects track on analog right. VHS hifi almost always outdoes the analog audio.

Volume normalization in regards to side changes isn't a bad thing as sometimes mastering errors can occur. The one big problem I've found is on some titles there is inherent crackling distortion in the very high frequencies which I wouldn't be sure how to address.

The only other thing with the letterbox LD series is the occasional loud pop or artifact in the audio that I've found. IIRC it's only From Russia With Love that has inherent hiss. (Which is not bad, simply noticeable) OHMSS on my copy has some very loud pops in Side 3 which seem to be inherent to the source.

If we can start the process of syncing these, it's the first step towards the ultimate goal. I have most of all the necessary titles BTW, I just haven't had the means to do a capture. Personally, I'd love to either sync to the SEs and go down a route similar to ProjectBlu in correcting them, or see if there's a possibility of correcting the UE/BD.

Also note: MGM releases used the magnetic track master audio so these should be used as primary sources.

As it stands this is the audio needing preservation:

Dr. No, FRWL-mono PCM from MGM as the Criterion is a print source.

Goldfinger-MGM PCM for master source, but Criterion for title song in mono and excised frames missing since 1991.

Thunderball-mono PCM from MGM, having to source from both 1989 and 1991 Connery Collection to cover a mastering error on each. Dolby surround remix from 1995 CAV set or 1998 THX disc. 5.1 LD remix from THX disc.

YOLT, OHMSS, DAF-mono PCM from MGM.

LALD-mono PCM from 2nd MGM issue. Plus the mono isolated score on the digital tracks of the 1st recalled issue may be of interest.

TMWTGG-mono LD PCM. Very clean btw.

TSWLM-Dolby surround audio is good on 1st MGM letterbox release, may have been improved on later THX version.

MR-brilliant clear surround audio on 1st letterbox issue, not sure about THX version.

FYEO-MGM PCM. The best mix is this original Dolby surround but has some of the HF distortion.

OP-MGM PCM. Also has this odd light HF distortion.

AVTAK-MGM PCM. Ballsier and beefier sounding mix.

TLD-MGM PCM. As previously stated, this is indeed a great and detailed mix, so thanks for the capture! It should be pretty easy to sync as there are no edits or tweaks to the newer transfer.

LTK-I have the Fox letterbox release and have not yet to been able to compare to the MGM reissue. The Fox audio is good, but the MGM may win out due to being several years newer. Plus the Fox is a rotter.

GE, TND,TWINE-DTS is ongoing in the theatrical DTS thread. The LD versions may have different bitrates. Dolby 5.1 is the same just mixed differently for the rival system. For complete purist's sake we'd also have to do the Dolby surround downmixes as in the 90's not every theater was digital capable. And some are mixed differently too. (GE has different sound emphasis.)

DAD-is like TWINE, both were Dolby EX/DTS ES releases.

CR '67-LD PCM mono.

NSNA-LD PCM Dolby surround.

http://thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/man-of-steel-2013/

While not the biggest Supes fan, I like the character. I tried to be honest, and simply put: this movie is no fun whatsoever. It is overly dull, tiresome and the only real positive are the actors who are drowning in a sea of overbearing monotony. The story travels the same ground as Superman I and II relatively and only in overtones. There is no dramatic context as in those pictures.

The biggest hurdle to overcome is the direction and the unbelievably poor cinematography. The shakycam in dialogue scenes ruins many and is most of the time worse than Bourne Ultimatum. In other scenes there are incessant digital quick zooms in and out of movement that are beyond jarring. Some of the worst photography in 5 years easily.

I really stopped caring before the first reel was up. The story structure with the silly modern usage of frequent mini-flashbacks interrupting action doesn't help.

This is literally a TDK-infused Superman with little to no Superman. Heck, it takes a WHOLE MOVIE until we see our mild-manned reporter friend. There is no spark, no life, no magic, no imagination and ultimately no humanity in this picture. It's on the same level as Returns but for opposite reasons.

Here is everything they and most others get so completely wrong, in 10 minute programs.

"This looks like a job for..SUPERMAN."

http://thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/the-fleischer-studiosfamous-studios-superman-theatrical-cartoons-1941-1943/

D.E.F.I.N.I.T.I.V.E.

Lethal Weapon 3 may just very well be the cinematic definition of the word lame.

After having the bad taste of Man of Steel still in my mouth...

Fleischer/Famous Studios Superman Theatrical Cartoons-Superman defined, personified and definitive. I still get as giddy as a 5 year old watching these. Infinite balls!

And an old favorite that I can't resist firing up in the analog theater cave...Batman (1989) [12000 A/B]. This is a demo title for me, a great title for the format, but most enjoyable for the 35mm Dolby Stereo sound mix which is the same master as the 70mm version.

Additionally Thunderball looks different on every transfer. The vintage Tech print I saw 5 years ago was beautiful.

Interesting color on this 8mm scope LPP print on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-Super-8-SCOPE-very-Rare-Feature-Length-Film-LPP-/171058013702?pt=US_Film&hash=item27d3da2606

Then there's this listing for SW on video tape, but on an actual reel of video tape looks like 1/2 inch tape.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Star-Wars-Movie-on-Videotape-1-2-in-x-2400-ft-12-7mm-x-730m-2-Reels-/251290675877?pt=US_Movies_Other_Formats&hash=item3a82176aa5

Wonder what this could be?

I have a bunch of titles for which I would like to capture audio and re-sync with other sources, but with a mediocre sound card without a digital input is there any way to capture or is this even worthwhile without a dedicated capture chain?

I've meant to get the Taxi Driver Criterion for some time as I'm sure the mono mix is better mixed than the 5.1 derived from the 90's era Dolby surround remix for the re-release.

Wow, thanks so much for another mammoth undertaking. I am beyond thrilled to watch this!

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I just spit coffee everywhere. :)

It's really nice to see your meeting of the minds, and reminds all of us why we're all here-despite the dangers and hush-hush elements. 

OT.com convention anyone??? I suppose it must take place in xhonzi's kitchen... ;)

Still been on a EGR and Cagney run:

Kid Galahad-great little boxing picture, with well written parts for Eddie and Bette Davis. Bogie is the evil gangster figure. Some influence on Raging Bull. 3.5 balls out of 4 fixed fights.

Each Dawn I Die-GREAT prison film where Cagney is a reporter falsely accused of murder to shut him up. He is thrown in prison and when he cannot be proved innocent, begins to crack up and go into the mean Cagney mode we all love. George Raft is the smooth convict who befriend Jimmy. A classic. 3.5 balls out of 4 stints in solitary.

The Roaring Twenties-an epic of sorts, with all the classic touchstones of gangster pictures. Obvious influence on Scorsese. This is Cagney and Bogie together during Prohibition. What's not to love?? 3.5 balls out of 4 gin joints.

Here's everything else:

Once Upon a Time in China (one of the worst DVD transfers from a major studio I’ve ever seen) Three balls out of 4.

Once Upon a Time in China II (Ditto) Two balls out of four rope fights.

Once Upon a Time in China III One and a half balls out of 4 bad subtitles.

The Hangover 3 (Unbelievably dumb and pointless filler) ZERO BALLS

City for Conquest 3.5 balls out of 4.

Yankee Doodle Dandy-FOUR BALLS. A CLASSIC in surprising ways.

King’s Row-3.5 balls out of 4. The only good movie that stars Ronald Regan.

Once a Thief-3.5 balls out of 4. A Great comedy/caper film with surprising depth from John Woo in his classic period. This is Chow Yun-fat in full Cary Grant mode.

Hitchcock-1 ball. A terribly dull picture that is about a caricature and not the man or his life.

Iron Man 3-two balls out of four. Coming from Shane Black, I had hoped for more wit and worth but could care less as long as there will be a Kiss Kiss Bang Bang 2.

Blood and Wine-An odd low budget 90's picture reuniting Bob Rafelson with Jack Nicholson AND adding Michael Caine. The potential is massive but this is a flat, cheap and empty movie. Two balls at best.

Lady Killer-a darkly funny preCode Cagney picture where a gangster is forced out of town, abandoned by his mob and inadvertently becomes a Hollywood star. 3.5 balls out of 4.

The Fighting 69^th-A WWI picture about the titular regiment, produced as a WWII propaganda piece. Cagney is excellent in a different role, that of a blustery coward. 3 balls out of 4.

Torrid Zone-A great snappy picture-though a remake of an earlier Clark Gable film-and featuring elements of later Warner classics equals pure delight. This is Cagney and Ann Sheridan (love!) consistently outdoing each other on a banana plantation in the tropics whilst fighting off indignant rebels. Sheer fun. 3.5 balls out of 4.

Man of Steel-a dull movie where the actors give it their all but are consistently dragged down by the surrounding movie. The camerawork is absolute garbage filled with shakycam and incessant forced zooms. This is both no fun and missing humanity. There is no spark, no life, no vitality to this picture at all. It is as frustrating as Superman Returns. 1.5 balls at best.

I use foobar daily and have this exact plugin for my few DVDAs. It works like a charm, not only does it allow playback of hi-res files, but all files on disc-even surround mixes.

penguinofgreatness said:

captainsolo said:

Does anybody have the old pan n scan/open matte LDs of Godfather I and II that had digital sound? After watching the BD, I'm fuming over the mono's relegation to the far corner over the nice and clean overdone 5.1 track. Hopefully someone can confirm that these are accurate as I'd love to use them over the surround track.

Doesn't the Bluray have the mono track?

Yes, but a somewhat tinny DD 192 kbp/s. The remix is well done but a standard stereo score, effects too separated and spread out with centered dialogue version of a mono track. Toggling back and forth shows the better mix on the original track.

POTA sounds wonderful in mono. I had always kept the old DVD that had it. Need to upgrade to the BD set as it looks great and has the uncut Conquest.

Does anybody have the old pan n scan/open matte LDs of Godfather I and II that had digital sound? After watching the BD, I'm fuming over the mono's relegation to the far corner over the nice and clean overdone 5.1 track. Hopefully someone can confirm that these are accurate as I'd love to use them over the surround track.

As for TFC and Bullitt, I'm thinking perhaps Beta, VHS or even 16mm for original mono. I haven't yet gotten the remastered TFC BD, so I haven't been able to confirm the mono's presence on-disc. Bullitt has the same outdated stereo-ized rack on every release.