captainsolo

The boxes do nothing for SE corrections. Nothing.

OP is still missing the player generated subtitle, TLD has it's missing one.

TMWTGG works fine on my players, but who knows.

OHMSS is still missing the dialogue and has the different edit of the stock car rally.

LTK isn't missing anything and appears to be the original US PG-13 cut.

Finally getting to scan through all these is wonderful because I am now fully convinced these are the MGM LD masters. Many have the exact same opening logos as are on the LD counterparts, exact damage corresponds between releases, color timing is the same etc.

GF and TB follow their CAV box versions, and all of these may stem from the aborted 1998 THX LD repressing series that the studio canceled. The low bitrate and size was from the aborted THX DVD plan early in the format that would have both widescreen and fullscreen separate transfers on the same disc. The SE discs merely took the widescreen version and added fancy menus and special features.

I'm seriously thinking that the most immediate way to address the original films is to do a GOUT V3 styled project designed to get the most out of the flawed DVD image, overcome the transfer issues and add LD PCM audio.

TCM almost always shows old video masters, especially since they are not an HD channel (their HD version is upscaled). I first saw THX many many years ago for the first time this way so this would be the surest bet if they program it any time soon.

Can it be confirmed if there are 1985 remixes for ESB and ROTJ? I just watched the SWEs for both, and both sound like other 1980's Dolby Stereo releases.

ESB is confined mostly to the front with occasional sporadic surround usage. The dialogue alternates between muffled and strident, with the track overall feeling slightly limited. (I had to raise the volume significantly to match regular levels)

ROTJ is far better with better surround usage, better presentation, fuller sound, and better mixed dialogue.

Oddly, neither has any real sound panning as do both Raiders and Temple of Doom. Maybe then these are remixes and the original tracks have panning intact?

Moth3r said:

I still need to see this. Can anybody suggest theatrical or Director's cut for a first viewing?

SilverWook said:

Bingowings said:

So many awful effects to chose from with TOD.

The the exploding plane/mountain composite.

The matte painings of Pankot Palace.

Some of the mine sequence is brilliant but some shots would look nasty compared to Willis O'Brien's work (a genius in his time but this was a mid eighties film).

Then there is compositing of the shot where the water bursts through the model mine shaft with the badly matted in actors.

Then the unforgivable rope bridge models and mattes which breaks what should be a moment of tension.

The sad thing is the Lao Che sequence which gets a lot of flack is a wonderful pastiche of the era and has believable stunts.

I get the Gunga Din and Kim references but Kipling is a Victwardian you can make allowances seeing as for the day he was actually rather progressive in his attitudes.

But as I said it was a mid-eighties movie and had some of the cast of Gandhi (1982).

The banquet scene is astonishingly backwards especially from a country that gave the world McDougal's.

When I'm talking Spielberg Nazis I'm talking Raiders and TLC not Schindler's List.

Only Steven could make a holocaust movie with an upbeat ending.

ILM had a pretty full plate that year, so maybe they were stretched too thin? I think most video transfers make some shots stick out more than they did in theaters. I will give those shots more scrutiny if it plays the revival house here again.

Nazis in the Indy films are pretty much in the vintage Hollywood mold though. Especially the old movie serials that inspired the film. I'm still amazed Kenner got away with making action figures of Toht.

Everything served in the banquet scene is actually a real delicacy, so you can't accuse the screenwriters of making that stuff up. ;)

That's what I wondered, like the dodgy moments in ROTJ like the rancor and some of the mattes etc. Some transfers do make them stick out more, for example the LD TOD seems more uniform than the DVD.

I still think TOD is perfect though.

ROTJ-SWE LD Mitsubishi

Side 3 CAV, great transfer with wonderful color. The image is still shifted up as it would be on the JSC this is sourced from just minus the Japanese subtitles. For my money this far outshines the Faces LD I have of ROTJ, with an image that seems far more filmlike and thus is much more enjoyable. Easily the best looking of the three non Technidisc SWEs. The audio is fantastic with everything being flawless for an 80's Dolby Stereo track. If it is a remix then little to nothing seems to be affected. The surround channel gets far more usage than ESB, and being three years newer the whole mix is better with much improved definition.

Harmy said:

If it was up to me, I wouldn't give a crap about lossless audio, especially for the mixes that are already sourced from lossy sources but I want to put out a quality release that even the audiophiles here can appreciate.

THANK YOU!!!!

I've already waited for 2.5 over 2.1 anyways, and the big draw for me was finally having lossless sources for all the tracks. (Though it's obviously not going to help the mono much, being from the restoration project)

I personally really can't tell the difference - hell, I just recently tried listening to a 96000Hz 4608kbps FLAC of a Beatles song and then a 44100Hz 128kbps MP3 and couldn't hear any difference whatsoever and this was on my friend's hi-fi equipment.

Fingernails on chalkboard...to each their own but this kinda stuff drives me crazy. In music I find it makes a huge difference, and with the SW mixes it actually does a large part as well, especially the '85 and '97 mixes which are the only ones I've heard lossless versions of.

hairy_hen said:

Argh, I'm really sorry to keep delaying and making people wonder what's going on.  A combination of being kept busy with schoolwork, internet connection problems, and going through something that could soon turn into a nasty breakup (and would leave me without a place to live) are contributing factors.

Personally, I blame Zoidberg.

 

The audio tracks (yes, they are all 100% lossless) are ready to go as soon as they can be uploaded successfully.  For some reason I haven't been having much luck with that, but I'll get those blasted things up there if it kills me.  The 70mm has been optimized to the point where I'm probably not going to touch it again unless a true discrete channel copy became available somehow; I also have the mono mix with the film version of the Fox fanfare spliced in, and the stereo mix from the digital source with all the dropouts and other errors completely eliminated by patching in parts of the analogue version.  Both are level-matched as precisely as possible to the 70 in order to maintain consistency of dialogue when switching between tracks—rather than relying on DialNorm to do this, I rendered new files myself after careful listening tests, to maintain the highest quality.  I'll also add my isolated score, which in addition to synching the music to the movie has also been heavily re-equalized to sound like it does in the movie, and not shrill and nasty as it does on the CD's.  Maybe I should start a new thread for all these things so they can be found in one place.

So, that's where I am, anyway.  Sorry for making everyone wonder . . .

No worries, life interferes. Thanks for this massive amount of work on all the tracks.

Does it matter if the '85 comes from the JSC or the SWE?

I've had a similar result once before on a very old LD cap of the US SE LD. That was IIRC on an old Pioneer V-2200 though a miniDV deck as a passthrough.  When I saw the old captures they had no pink shift in the Mos Eisley sequence (easiest big offender). Some of the SE VHS tapes also seem to lack in the pink shift from time to time.

I was under the impression that it was only ANH that suffered this issue.

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Chewtobacca said:

I agree but am happy enough with the Italian BD.  The DE BD looks awful. 

I think you may have misunderstood my post. I agree, I'd rather go with the more film-like IT BD than the DE. I'll not lose any sleep over one second of Eastwood being beaten.

Synchronizing the English mono from the DE BD to the Italian BD is very difficult.  It's not like other films in which a few edits here are there are required.

Yeah, that seems to be the issue with most of the Dollars movies.

Interestingly, there is a scene in the Italian BD that lacks the night filter that was applied to the other releases.  It's the one in which Indio's gang break him out of prison.

Interesting... Wonder which one is right. Anyone here have a print? :)

You may be right on the Italian disc as far as matching the source material. The Triage-MGM restoration from the Techniscope negative would have been done in 2003-2004 after the GBU SE and before the first SE release of the initial Dollars films in 2005. (R2)

That night filter is an odd issue. The scene is Indio's breakout escape from the jail, and I've seen it both included and completely missing depending on the source viewed. What it is supposed to be is a night filter that begins dark and gradually lightens throughout the sequence until the time of the cutaway with Indio laughing. When correct the Indio laughing shot is supposed to be mostly lit but still overcast as if the sun hadn't fully risen.

That is how it was in the MGM/UA uncut print (the single print the studio had, worn 35mm and almost 100% complete)

If you want to see what the film should look like, the initial MGM DVD releases of FAFDM and GBU are correct. Fistful looks like all the US prints which were sourced differently due to rights issues.

And if you really want to see a poor washed out scope print transferred to LD, try the original Image LD of Duck You Sucker.

The Alien material shown above seems to follow the template for coloring set by the Blade Runner Final Cut. That's one I'd love to correct back to the original, because though nice looking at first it doesn't really fit. Plus in the home it looks weird whereas in 35mm it looked stupendous because it didn't stick out so much.

BTW it is thought that the 1992 first WS LD of Jaws has a slightly different mix due to a few source cues being changed for rights issues.

Thanks PDB, that's what I thought about Criterion vs. MGM as I've noticed form other films I've compared of theirs. I still want to see the MGM NbyNW disc for the transfer as it's reputed to be completely different from all others.

There shouldn't be stereo for NbyNW as it only played in mono, even at the full VistaVision premiere. Plus the VV system used Perspecta directioned 3 track sound in the big venues anyway. The mono track obliterates the 5.1 which in comparison is too tamed and safe.

Vertigo's old LD is analog only so we've often thought a Beta or VHS issue may yield slightly better audio. I haven't got the chance to really take a close look at the new mono on the BD (in DTS) but I'm almost positive the 2005 Masterpiece Collection DVD mono is the same as the old analog LD source. Certainly sounds like it.

I know of some who have been working with the GBU audio and especially with the rumors of a reissue BD, that might be something to tackle later. Is that the 1998 deleted scenes Italian mono you're referring to or a different source?

Ok, here's my growing shelf:

http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?action=list&user=sdraper

Jonno, when the headroom is limited is that what contributes to having to massively increase the volume in order to reach normal sound levels? I had to do this last night with the ESB SWE disc.

Maybe I just like 30's simple mindedness too much. I never really had issues over ToD in the PC department, especially since there are many other films along the same lines (Gunga Din actually forms the basis of a substantial part of ToD)

ESB

This was my first time watching the SWE version. (Mitsubishi pressing to be exact) Comparing to the JSC/SWE issues of of the first film, there's still that wonderful sense of color amidst the source that was gone by 1993. The sound mix is superb and shows how far both the creative team and the format had come in only three years. It's also odd to hear the older mix elements after being used to hearing the 1993 and SE mixes all these years. I don't know why an 1985 mix would have been done as there are still track defects in this. My assumption would be that for the JSC a mix was done to put each film into modern Dolby Surround for home usage on LD.

Video was good to great, with Side 2 having some slight rot creeping in and out. Color is very nice with almost a warm balance overall, most noticeable in warmer skin tones and a general orange-yellow cast. When Han is put into carbon freeze, the entire chamber is lit yellow instead of yellow-orange to red-orange.

Audio is wonderful, in the Dolby surround mix that is either theatrical or a very slight remix. The only thing is that dialogue alternates from being a bit strident to slightly muffled.

Bingowings said:

It is written :

Raiders is a proper cinema classic, TOD is a scruffy. flawed, racist, roller-coaster ride after too much junk food, TLC is a by the numbers, boring dumbed-down remake of Raiders. Both TOD and TLC are as guilty as KOTCS of being not worthy to stand near Raiders.

See, I still don't get the TOD hate. I saw it and was as blown away as I was by ROTLA. It's a different movie, a darker piece even more mired in 1930's storytelling complete with ridiculous caricatures and I absolutely think it is a masterpiece of adventure filmmaking. TLC was made by older people who weren't doing it for the same reasons. Connery makes the film by infusing Henry Sr. with something akin to the life-like qualities Alec Guinness instilled in our beloved crazy hermit.

FanFiltration said:

"Murder by Death" (1976)

What a racist film this is. Nevertheless, I still enjoyed it. Great ensemble cast.

The only people still alive from the film's cast are Maggie Smith, James Cromwell, and Richard Narita

"Clue" (1985)

Another great ensemble cast, yet I did not find it as funny as I did when I first saw it in the theater when it was released.

Immortal double feature. The former is dated, and not the best of films-but on the other hand it is surprisingly funny and somewhat endearing because of its refusal to give up. The latter never gets old for me and is easily one of the best ensemble pieces in the last 50 years. My favorite Tim Curry performance bar none. It is especially great in 35mm with an audience.

EyeShotFirst said:

Marnie (1964)

The film that divides all Hitchcock fans. Some say it's the worst thing Hitchcock ever made, others say it's one of his crowning achievements.

I'm a huge fan of Hitchcock's 50's and early 60's films. I'll honestly say I loved Marnie, and I feel it fits in perfectly with Hitchcock's other films of the era. What more do people want? I don't think it's his greatest film, I don't have the guts to decide what his best film was, but I think it definitely deserves more praise as one of his greatest films.

Really enjoyed Sean Connery in the film, as usual he stole the show with a smirk.

No rating, I'll just say you're a fool to call yourself a Hitchcock fan without at least watching it. I thought it was classic Hitchcock.

This is where it starts to get difficult, because this begins the period of Hitch's career where every film was either hampered by outside factors or forced upon him by the studio. Marnie was supposed to star Grace Kelly and be far more audacious and psychosexual than it is. The result Hitch was forced to release is a failed experiment that is fascinating when it works and still watchable when it isn't. I prefer it to The Birds of course, and for once Tippi Hedren's awful remoteness works--but this is entirely Sean's picture. He commands the screen and creates exactly the sort of powerful yet fascinated enraptured dominating male figure Hitch wanted.

Also hard to deal with is that at this time the seams began to show on what made a Hitchcock picture work. The 60's films look horribly dated with odd color, visible effects and odd staging throughout.

The film is very delicate, especially in it's production values with the color being explicitly laid out to match the story. Marnie also marks an end point in Hitch's career as it was the last time he was able to work with some his longtime production team. All in all a flawed picture that had so much potential had they let Hitch actually be free, something that deprived the world of so much in his final days at Universal/MCA.

4 stars out of 4. A better picture than what followed, though Torn Curtain certainly has its moments, and Topaz really works quite well overall as a realistic espionage piece.

Marnie is also poorly represented on BD.

For a true Hitchcock fan badge you have to sit through Under Capricorn five times. ;)

Bingowings said:

Them that say it's the worst thing he made clearly haven't seen Frenzy (1972) (not just behind the times and repellent but also rather badly made).

Me rather like Marnie (or Catpeople Sans Cat as I prefer to call it).

The film hinges on presenting contradictions.

We have two rapes one that doesn't happen and one that does.

Blackmailing women into marrying you and raping them isn't good (much the same can be said of Deckhard in Blade Runner) but the film doesn't make out that it is.

Frenzy is a masterpiece, the last great film Hitch ever made, wonderfully dark and ironic, almost like black comedy in places, and to be honest almost a farewell to many elements of Hitch's favored story elements. It is also a hearkening back to what is one of the great lost films, Frenzy Kaleidoscope, Hitch's proposed followup to his groundbreaking work on Psycho. It was to be a 16mm almost New Wave styled film about a young man who has relationships with women before he kills them graphically, set up in three dramatic acts, have mother issues and focus on the police's attempts to capture the killer and balance the freedoms of 70's filmmaking with Hitch's innate grasp of visualizing drama.

This is what I had intended to do at some point, great work and info on the various errors and cuts on the WB transfers. It still puzzles me why it is the original material restored version that has all the errors and missing bits.

I still prefer the Bosko Diamond DVD because you can see all the grain intact along with audio that is straight optical complete with source defects. The only downsides are those awful superimposed release dates and the very poor condition of "Terror on the Midway", but that was like that in all other issues.

I'm also almost positive that the earlier Image DVD release is the same transfer and that overall these are the same work stemming from the 1992 LD release. (The opening video credits on the Bosko DVD refer to Laserdisc to boot) That would still be the best source for audio being PCM mono, but will have the same source defects as displayed on the DVD's lossy track. If anyone knows better about these earlier releases let me know.

These shorts need a proper restoration, as they have created a massive legacy still felt in animation. Personally I feel that these are the best ever adaptation of Superman in any format.

http://thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/the-fleischer-studiosfamous-studios-superman-theatrical-cartoons-1941-1943/

Jonno said:

Hmmm... just received and captured Moonraker. Another disc mastered in 1990, another digital track with a -9dB ceiling. Why were these folks so reluctant to use the full range of the digital signal?

For now I'll resist the urge to normalise and edit it as-is - it's actually a very clear and clean track, and I guess folks' amps can fight it out with the limited volume.

Odd, as that is arguably the best sounding of the Dolby Stereo 007 LD titles. This one may be due to the way the film was recorded rather out of house in France. (The score tapes are still missing) The sound, especially the score has always been very different sounding. This LD is easily the best the film has EVER sounded.

Mad Max's original Australian mono is only available as lossy DD on the DVD and BD. No LD releases were ever done, but that doesn't discount a foreign VHS/Beta somewhere.

How does the MGM North by Northwest audio compare? The Criterion is seemingly print sourced and has many many source defects, I've often wondered what MGM used on theirs. Criterion credits the source as stereo soundtrack masters transferred to 24 track digital for the LD master.  The missing effects come as no surprise. The 5.1 loses a great deal of the soundfield in favor of multichannel usage and plastering the score over everything, much as the Vertigo remixes. And it harms the mix in a irreparable way. Once you hear the mono track, you can never go back to 5.1. Everything is placed perfectly in the mix, and for all those that defend the multi-channel mix as being VistaVision accurate: N by NW was mono-only.

For GBU-DEFINITELY stay with Italian mono. That has original effects as designed by Leone with the original mixing and quite excellent Italian dubbing. The MGM mix loses a great deal of Leone's careful sound design by erasing and plastering everything with horrible out of place and obvious effects. Additionally the new voice recordings are very jarring in that they weren't done very well, weren't integrated at all, and you can painfully tell the actor's age difference. I've watched the Italian version many times, and it is actually less jarring to switch to Italian w/subs for scenes than the MGM nightmare--even downmixed (like their total failure of a mono downmix for DYS)

I've never done a side by side with Red October, just usually pop in the awesome LD Dolby Stereo. Great news on the Temple audio. That needs to be heard...wait, experienced by everyone. Same goes for the rest of the trilogy if only for the original sound design and panning.

Since this has become the dedicated thread, is it possible to put up some general how-to's on capturing digital audio properly and general guidelines on re-syncing to different sources? I've dabbled in this a bit before, and now that I have a brimming LD shelf I'd like to get some equipment to work with the audio.

It's ok, the SE errors really aren't that big save for the cuts in OHMSS. The Dolby EX is the same track but the receiver has to either auto-decode the flag or be manually set to decode the matrixed rear sixth channel. (5.1 EX has a sixth channel matrixed into the rear channels that is decoded out into a single extra rear channel)

The uncut release was by Warner Bros. in a pan n' scan master. This was utilized for the Dutch LD in PAL format and thus presumably for the Japanese Warner pan n' scan LD made at the same time likely from the same master in NTSC. I remember reading somewhere that this was the same identical uncut transfer but have been unable to find it again.

Awesome-can you check the TLD disc for the missing subtitle? Also, if you have a receiver capable of playing back Dolby 5.1 EX, the TWINE disc is still unknown if it has this theatrical track or not.

Again, here's the SE errors for reference:

These are the confirmed defects with the Bond titles, for which corrected repressings have been made. To get your replacement discs, call MGM Customer Service at 1-877-MGM-4YOU, and follow the directions for defective DVDs. You will be sent a prepaid UPS shipping label via e-mail which you can print out and use to send back your DVD(s). They will then send back the corrected DVD(s) to you (brand-new, shrinkwrapped copy like you would buy in the store). Corrected copies supposedly have **** around the title on the white sticker on top of the sealed DVDs (such as, **** Octopussy ****), but I have not always found that to be the case. My corrected NSNA did not have the stars.

The Man with the Golden Gun - In Chapter 21, at approximately 81:30, at the beginning of the car chase, the disc will pixelate and lock up on many DVD players due to a mastering error.

Octopussy - In Chapter 12, at approximately 37:00, Bond flips a bad guy onto a bed of nails. The owner of the bed says something and the English subtitle translation is missing ("Get off my bed!")

Never Say Never Again - In Chapter 19, at approximately 65:50. There are about 4 minutes of footage missing from this point, the beginning of the second layer of the disc. The missing footage starts right after Bond gives a cigarette case to a security guard in a closet and tells him it's a bomb. Scenes from this missing footage include Bond saying his line, "My name is Bond, James Bond." to Domino as she stands in front of an arcade game machine and Bond having a conversation with Largo as Largo stands behind a bar. Largo challenges Bond to play the game in this scene.

The Living Daylights - In Chapter 7, at approximately 19:30. After the plant worker pushes her supervisor off of her bosom, there are missing English subtitles which translate her words ("What kind of girl do you think I am!)

---

These following Bond titles also have errors. Corrected versions have not yet been made, but in a HTF Post by MGM officials on April 30, 2001, they had this to say: "License To Kill and On Her Majesty's Secret Service - Corrected versions of these titles will be made available when MGM re-releases these DVD's sometime in 2002. If you are unhappy with your current DVD, you will be able to exchange it with MGM customer service at that time." It is unknown which problems exactly they are correcting, and if they will correct all the ones listed below.

On Her Majesty's Secret Service - In Chapter 18, at approximately 75:05. Weird "humming" audio over a scene of a rock climber actually belongs to 3 seconds of missing video which occurs right before this scene. Also, some missing lines (quoted from someone else's report): On the DVD, right after Telly Savalas delivers the line, "Tracy, don't be so proud. Your father's own business is not entirely within the law", it cuts to Bond and Draco in the helicopter, completely cutting the line "His brotherhood also have exotic ways of keeping it a closed shop" which is on the laserdisc and VHS tape. The stock car race scene has completely different editing and appears to be about 20 seconds shorter than the versions on my laserdisc and tape (I didn't time it so I can't be exact). Finally, after the stock car race, when Tracy says "We didn't even stop for the prize", Bond's line "I told you that crowd would discourage them" has also been cut.

Licence to Kill - In Chapter 44, at approximately 98:00. When the guy explodes in the chamber, there is apparently a popping sound and the blood actually splattering against the window which is missing. There may also be additional gore and violence in other parts of the movie missing (unconfirmed).

The missing subs were player generated anyhow so the UE utilizing the theatrical hardcoded subs would be preferable for those shots, even in TND-TWINE-DAD.

I think Hammer has ruined Horror of Dracula by going this colder color route, as they ruined Curse of Frankenstein with a terrible transfer of a great hi-res scan. Hopefully they get it right with their upcoming release of The Mummy, which to me has always had some of the best and richest Technicolor examples.

Of course then there's also all the films with mis-registered 3 strip Technicolor, where nothing quite lines up and there are small color halos around everything.

Many are discussed in my older thread on a similar topic: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Films-re-color-timed-on-video-releases/topic/15311/

The only big color criticism off the top of my head I have with WB overall is the Superman  films which all have teal throughout now on BD for some unknown reason. Additionally the budget for the Donner Cut of II was rather low and the timing was not done on any footage until the final edit and that was done pretty much with  modern sensibilities in mind.

Pretty sure the Leone films are wrong on MGM's transfers with FAFDM may be the closest to intended composition and color. Duck You Sucker is very green/brownish and washed out looking. GBU SE is a travesty all around and the 35mm looked washed out.

The modern Bond transfers are all wrong for color. They are no longer of their vintage and were timed to suit modern tastes in many preferences, even on the BD remastered takes on the same masters. That is why the newer releases such as YOLT, OHMSS and DAF have far too much contrast and lack that color depth from Technicolor and vintage non faded Eastman.  The new TSWLM master is wonderfully detailed but the color isn't quite right I think--yet a darn sight better than the awful bleaching the film got at the hands of Lowry in 2006.

dvdmike said:

Doctor M said:

...and the final product isn't always representative of what is released in other countries.  Jungle Book is the same era and uses xerography like Sword in the Stone.  I don't see the U.S. release looking much better than SitS does.

As far as the Little Mermaid audio: The first LD release of LM has Dolby surround (2 channel prologic), which would be based on the ORIGINAL Dolby theatrical mix.  IIRC, in theaters it was a sort of analog equivalent to DD 5.1.  This disc is pan and scan.

The 1998 LD contains the 5.1 digitally remaster soundtrack from the 1997 release as well as a mono and Dolby surround track.  I'm not sure if the latter two are downmixes of the '97 mix or from the '89 mix.

The first DVD is pretty much identical to the 1998 LD.  It is non-animorphic letterboxed and contains the 5.1 digitally remastered track.

Imdb claims there was 70mm 6-track original release mix. I couldn't prove it, but it's possible.

I couldn't tell you if there is much difference between the '89 and '97 mix.  It's most likely that they just reproduced the Dolby analog mix as a Digital mix because theaters were changing over.

This would be unlike the DEHT mixes where they assume you only have TV speakers and are half deaf.

With a little google-fu

 

Little Mermaid, The

Spherical (Super 1.85:1)

Nov 15 (USA)

6-Track Dolby Stereo

Walt Disney

OAR blow-up. First spherically photographed Disney animated film to be blown-up to 70mm.

I'm not sure as I've never really seen this a second time...Usually the 5.1 likely used the original 4 track master used for the 1987 Dolby Stereo release, and this was probably converted to Dolby 70mm six track by splitting the mono surround and adding the baby boom enhancement as on other blowup films in throughout the 80's. (ex Batman)

crissrudd4554 said:

TServo2049 said:

It really confuses me when older movies have alterations in their mono tracks. It happened with The Wizard of Oz, it happened with Frankenstein, it happened with Dracula. I think it's because due to the age of these films, the mono tracks are now restorations/reassemblies, not just direct transfers of an original mono element.

Yeah it is very strange. For example the 2004 DVD of Dracula strangely uses the censored audio track that removes Renfield's death scream and Dracula's death groans yet the 1999 and 2006 DVDs and the Blu Ray use the uncensored audio. What was going through Universal's mind in 2004 is a mystery. I also wasn't fond how when E.T. was released on DVD that some of the new sound effects added to the 2002 reissue was added to the DVD of the original. An example would be when they police are running to the evacuated van and you hear walkie talkie static.

They also ruined the film by de-graining and boosting all the levels to remove the intended darkness-especially on the 06 release which is unwatchable. The BD is much better but I still prefer the '99 disc overall.

The classic Uni monster films are never going to have much fidelity, especially the early ones being typically poorly sourced from sound disc copies that were improperly stored. The restored lines from Frankenstein were found by a collector by picking up a sound disk and then finally convincing Universal to include them. I'd like to try the LD editions as some are digital sound, and the early Discovision releases are supposedly transferred from original nitrate. (These look like NOTHING else) And personally I love the way the old copies sound at full blast, complete with hiss and crackle-even VHS.

Speaking of ET, I've been meaning to revisit Close Encounters for a long time. If I got the 30th Anniv. BD would the mix there be anything like the theatrical? I know the original 70mm LFE was sourced for the Collector's Edition LD (via lddb forums)

AF, GBU could be saved by adding the LD PCM to the Mondo transfer and then replacing the edits in the torture scene and the few other tiny bits to conform to the 161 minute US/International cut. The Italian exclusive scenes would remain Italian mono for the longer cut, with the MGM SE exclusive scene being the grotto which was never shown outside the premiere.

Since I just watched the JSC for the first time and couldn’t find a proper place to comment, here’s a new discussion thread just for this 1986-1987 trilogy from Japan that we all know well but doesn’t get much mention anymore.

I was floored by how good this looked on my CRT. It may be the most balanced color of any home release, and I’m one of those who likes the Technidisc saturation best.

And noo motion smearing!

BTW the 1985 remix here is very very clean with only a couple very minor instances of damage on the high end. There is also a very natural layer of tape hiss that suggests direct transfer of elements without noise reduction.

It seems the Pioneer/Mitsubishe SWE USA releases used this master, which at first created the shrinking aspect ratio due to covering up the Japanese subs. I’ve seen some of those and seeing this is like pulling the wool off your eyes.

My questions are: Where the heck did the source come from? Where did it go? Why did they do a new 1985 mix?

And are the ESB and ROTJ JSC releases as impressive as SW? If so…my wallet is disturbed by lack of contents.

Star Wars.

But this time on my new bargain JSC copy.

Wait till I find my mouth as it fell on the floor somewhere...

I've seen samples from some of the preservations, so I knew this would be good..and that it had no DVNR, and had better color than the DC/GOUT...but I didn't think it would touch my preferred transfer, the Technidisc.

But it does, and is arguably a more definitive presentation due to the color being more balanced overall. I'm wondering if perhaps the two share the same source as some things look very close, as if the Technidisc merely overcooked the image.

The 1985 remix is presented perfectly, with a nice layer of natural tape hiss. The full CAV presentation easily bests all the US discs from Mitsubishi, Pioneer and especially the Definitive Collection. The only downsides are the very slight usage of EE (but tiny for LD as most always had EE to some degree) and the hardcoded Japanese subs. (which aren't bad at all since the film is shifted upwards)

Wow. A SW release without decisive flaws...what is the world coming to...this is really that good. Now I need to find a non-astronomical ESB and ROTJ.

The problem is not Affleck, who can very likely do a decent or good job in this version role which they have obviously casted to have someone to banter with the young Supes.

The problem is that this is Man of Steel II.

If it works, then likely expect an Affleck directed Justice League.

PDB said:

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

PDB said:

It is similar but clearly the widescreen LD was re-mixed to be a bit more aggressive. I have it if you want it, just drop me a line.

Thanks for the offer - just please wait until the things will be more clear... if you can provide also video along with audio, it will be great, as it's easyer to sync. What about the other two movies, have you them, and do they sounds different from their widescreen counterparts too? And, right because we are here, what about P&S colors Vs LB colors?

I have this LD for temple:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/11028/LV-1643/Indiana-Jones-and-the-Temple-of-Doom-(1984)

and similar to Raiders the mix isn't as aggressive. Same sounds just mixed very slightly different

only this is PCM unlike Raiders' analog. It leads me to believe that the widescreen Indy LDs are remixed.

Having said that, Temple of Doom's widescreen Dolby Surround Stereo soundtrack is perhaps one

of the best mixes I have ever heard regardless of it not being discreet.  Hell unlike the DVD or Blu

mix it has the original dialog panning. The widescreen LD of Raiders and Crusade are pretty good too.

 

Been awhile since I watched them to see if there are color changes but I can check the p&s of both to see.

Many said the Raiders WS LD audio was remixed and therefore not a good source. After watching the whole trilogy on LD myself, I really beg to differ. All three maintain the original dialogue and effects panning that is gone on DVD/BD, and to be honest are the best I've heard the films sound.

If the older analog only P&S discs have a different mix, that would be interesting as we've already wondered if Raiders was remixed for WS LD and had the original Dolby Stereo 35mm version on the earlier disc. The difference is that the film was mixed for VistaSonic only to have to switch over and tweak for a Dolby Stereo release at the very last minute. I'm wondering if they actually used these slightly different mixes instead of remastering audio.

Temple has audio so good, it's in my top 10 home audio tracks and I really don't see how a discrete 70mm version could improve upon it--it's that aggressive. Last Crusade sounds great and over on the lddb forums, some have commented that it played better in the Dolby Stereo matrix in 35mm versus the discrete 70mm version.

Video-wise, Raiders has some aliasing issues but in all looks like a more natural version of the 2003 DVD. Temple is reference quality, and Last Crusade is an older master that looks like the VHS.

I'm liking the Wowow transfers more and more. Despite not being directly 4K they have more detail in places than the BD version and reflect all previous color timing.

This is mere speculation, but that looks somewhat like the ways films would be telecined for home video and then re-timed for a more "natural" appearance.

No, I'd argue that they actually reflected the trends and desires of the times until falling into the trap of being maneuvered into taking on the traits of the competition around LTK, which has all the elements of other 80's action, and certainly more by the Brosnan era, until being consumed by the imitators nowadays.

Once the LD transfer is finished, since we keep running into brick "coily" walls, is there a reason why we don't take a look at utilizing the BD transfer as a source for a reconstruction ala DeSpecialized? I never even considered the BD due to it being the same DC master, but that may be the only way to get more detail and to get away from the inherent defects of the LD master itself.

Call it the "Buy more. Buy more now. Buy more and be happy" Edition. ;)